So much whining, -Toughen up you spoiled and decadent younger folks. There is plenty of opportunity out there for those willing to seize it. Who is doing well these days? Asian immigrants for example , who appreciate what they have and are willing to sacrifice and work hard to do better than the white and black folks.
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I'm attempting to find a kind of horrifically nihilistic comfort at knowing that this is likely the peak of civilization.
Years from now, hundreds or thousands, people will speak legends of gods who spoke instantly across the world from each other. Of great machines cranking steel and pumping oil to produce so much light the stars themselves grew dim.
And the fear of nuclear annihilation. A forbidden piece of God that humans have stolen for themselves. The pinnacle of death.
Future scientists will marvel in envy of the technology required to create our server banks and internet. They will dream of having cell phones and satellite networks. Much will likely remain of technology, but it will be either very controlled or very expensive.
All this to say that, not now, not soon I think, but this tower has to tumble. And tumble it will. The ice isn't refreezing, the phosphorus is dwindling, the oil is finite, and the bacteria aren't devolving.
We will likely eventually be in an era without plastics, antibiotics, and commercial fertilizers. The stink and rot of our old trash will have run deep into the water and the soil. The world will be poison to everything unfortunate enough to live on it, and we will be lacking the exact tools needed to combat it.
Let's enjoy our Uber Eats
Meanwhile, boomers, my therapist, and friends who are better off than me constantly gaslight by saying “it’s not that bad” and “other generations had it hard too”, or “it’ll get better; you’ll see.”
I’m in my early thirties, watched everyone dismiss climate change throughout my entire life, graduated HS during the 2008 recession, and have watched the world get progressively worse throughout my 15+ years of adulthood.
Shit’s fucked, and no one wants to admit it.
My therapist says that too. "Shit's fucked, and if you're depressed about it, that's normal". Wild, but validating to hear you're having a NORMAL reaction to a fucked up situation.
Man, you highlighted why I stopped looking for a therapist. I know it's good to work on yourself, and I know therapists want to help you, but ultimately they are there to help you cope with the world. The world is my problem. I know I can't change it, but that also means I can't change my bad mood other than to refuse to take part in the parts of society that I hate.
>Shit’s fucked, and no one wants to admit it.
And even the ones that are willing to admit it have to just throw up their hands at the futility. Until EVERYONE is willing to admit it, we cannot have the power to actually fix the problems.
The lifestyle we are sold is actually real fucking toxic and terrible. No amount of expensive toys will make up for a daily grind that is inherently destructive and ignorant.
Poor have been cannibalised already, middle class is getting it currently, your boss can probably already see the folks richer than him getting ready to strip him to the bone.
*It was like good, fully developed veal, not young, but not yet beef. It was very definitely like that, and it was not like any other meat I had ever tasted. It was so nearly like good, fully developed veal that I think no person with a palate of ordinary, normal sensitiveness could distinguish it from veal. It was mild, good meat with no other sharply defined or highly characteristic taste such as for instance, goat, high game, and pork have. The steak was slightly tougher than prime veal, a little stringy, but not too tough or stringy to be agreeably edible. The roast, from which I cut and ate a central slice, was tender, and in color, texture, smell as well as taste, strengthened my certainty that of all the meats we habitually know, veal is the one meat to which this meat is accurately comparable.*
-William Seabrook in *Jungle Ways*
lol, when we start in on the riche, I will have to hunt down vegans, I dont eat veal. Maybe its like eating wild boar - if they eat a lot of acorns they taste bitter, eat a lot of pecans, quite yummy.
It's the result of the dairy industry having no use for male calves or infertile female calves. In a lot of ways, the dairy industry is much more abusive to cows than meat farms are.
Yeah I’ve heard that as well. My close friend grew up on a beef farm and honestly those cows were pretty happy till the end. I think separating cows from calves for dairy sounds almost worse than a beef cow’s life.
Yup. Cows actually form very strong bonds, especially with their children, and can be seen mourning their calves when they're taken away. The "lucky" female calves get to be repeatedly impregnated until the constant pregnancy starts breaking their body, or causes them to become infertile. Once they're no longer fit to be pregnant, they get executed and sold as (low quality) beef regardless. Diary cows tend to only live a couple of years later than beef cows, and still often die when they're barely 1/3 of the way to their life expectancy.
We have royally fucked up one of the most gentle and loving animals beyond repair. Classic humans.
had to eat it as a kid, also lamb - when I got old enough to know what it was never ate it again. my dad was in n india in WWII, he loved curried mutton, mom refused to let mutton in the house. I thought mutton was fair to eat, its old sheep, lived a long life, so I bought it an made him a stew - once only time!! The whole house smelled like old boiled winter 100% wool coats for days! Dad liked it, mom wouldnt talk to me. Also tasted goat bbq here where I live, people raise it to sell in the city. Never again. (oh, veal and lamb were quite tasty, tender, mild, milk fed little babies)
You know, there are studies that show that in the most unjust and unequal societies in the world like the US the richer 10% is a lot less happy and satisfied of their lives than the most just and equal countries in the world like Sweden and Norway. So, they are not having much fun too because they feel like shit.
It comes from WWII. American intercepted a Japanese transmission, translated it poorly, and came up with this humdinger. I think it was probably 50% mistranlation and 50% "ha look at this, I'm sending this to everyone I know".
No one is sure, but this is the earliest confirmed source https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.c2582589?urlappend=%3Bseq=737
However some claim a 1952 film *Way of a Gaucho* has a similar phrase although no one can locate it in this transcript https://youtu.be/ASVCAvg1yvI and a comment on the video says it does not appear in the script.
>Despite the respondents' economic pessimism, 68% of people polled said they were "pretty happy" or "very happy" in life.
This is why nothing will change going forward and things will only continue to get worse. Americans don't put enough emotional stake in material conditions.
I wonder how much of this is, "I find happiness day to day because I have to, but my outlook on a grand scale is pessimistic." People can't be sad and upset all the time, our society doesn't allow that and more than that, it's pointlessly exhausting. My dog, SO, friends and family would probably be insulted to hear I'm unhappy when I have all of them in my life; and yeah, I AM happy enough on the small scale. This doesn't mean no emotional stake in things, just emotional regulation to survive every day.
This is it. Feel like my emotional regulating is a second full time job tbh. Keeping perspectives, going through what I AM grateful for… and meditating a lot walking .. the birds… and listening to literal singing bowls and binaural beats all day just so I don’t continuously spiral the well worn, and logical doom loops
It’s all fine and while until you realize the birds are singing from a heap of torn down trees making way for the mega data you’re working on. It’s disturbing 800 men a day could walk by that pile and think what they’re doing is ok.
And when you finally get outside to relax in nature you won't have any pesky pollinators to buzz in your ear, and there's way less wildlife than there used to be, and that habitat has been paved in concrete, and sure some of the birds have died from drought, and there's microplastics in the frogs, and you can't drink from that stream because of fertilizer runoff, and the river's not same to swim in, and you'll get hit by a car riding your bicycle... But NATURE amirite?
People have a way of deluding themselves in this country. When you're in the cave and all you see is shadows it's hard to imagine how much better it can be on the outside.
This also contributes why we lack a class consciousness, a fact that politicians continue to exploit.
Material conditions? What do you mean? Big screen smart TVs are only 300 dollars at Wal-Mart! /s Who cares if wages haven't kept up for the last 50 years for the middle and lower classes, that we pay the most for healthcare in the entire developed world with some of the worst outcomes, or that we'll happily spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a conflict that pretty much only enriches the military industrial complex.
Everything is fine. Get back to work.
A subscription shelter pod instead of a home? How could I lose! - Post Metagram, snort Baffoo, a synthetic cocaine, and play hours of FarmVille RELOADED in the metaverse.
Some do. (I myself,. have worked in a small city gov for the past 15 years.. passionately serving the public and community good).
Sadly though,. the people who do.. are vastly outnumbered by the people who don't.
I tried posting an article (might have been satire[doubt]) by thetimes titled. “Peace and prosperity hasnt made us happy. Why not give war a chance”. It got deleted but fuck if we’re not fucked
Hard to look at rivers and lakes without thinking about things like increasing algae blooms or how the fish are mostly gone or poisoned. Hard to watch the forests you were around as a kid succumb to drought. Hard to look at anything outside anymore without the message of "WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING" blaring with the intensity of an air raid siren in my head.
The amount of trash I see EVERYWHERE is just astounding. How on Earth people here in the US think we are still a first world nation with the amount of poverty, homelessness, crime, crumbling infrastructure, and now trash just thrown about in our natural places sickens me. Everywhere I look there is crazy amounts of trash everywhere. Life is not getting any better for anyone. I tend to work in some nice areas of the city I live in and the cognitive dissonance with the people there and their surrounding is frightening. People walk around as if nothing a wrong and all is well in the world as they step over people and garbage while heading into threat trendy store to buy consumerist garbage to create more of the same.
Even the trash put out on the street in neighborhoods is like 2 or 3 large cans overflowing each week! Whereas I take out a grocery bag of trash once a week and try to minimize that. People are just buying stuff and converting it to trash as fast as possible. It's sick!
Theres also the "what if" scenario of what if we didn't harm the environment like this and what would the outcomes be? I imagine a lot of places would look more lush and beautiful.
I have been mentally and physically preparing for a few years. I have always felt we had a little more time. Not anymore. I feel like we are in the ending scenes of Don't Look Up, where we are calmly eating dinner with friends and family, knowing that end is near.
I second this, it feels so weird going out into nature now. I can feel the pain, everything is sad right now and it might be the copious amounts of psychedelics I’ve taken over the years but last time I tripped by myself in the woods it felt like it was telling me to get out before it was too late and a fuckin tree almost fell on me
I took acid one night during Covid, for the last time, honestly. I had a vision of myself playing music on a stage at the end of the world. I’m friends with a bunch of musicians, but i just dabble in random shit. Creeped me out though
Interesting, what kinda music were you making/what instrument were you playing?
I grew and ate tons of APE shrooms in 2020 lockdowns-2021. One of the times I wound up putting together this percussion of tin coffee cans and trash hooked up to some contact mics I soldered and made this dope beat looped through a pedal. Then made this alien-like bassy ass garble synth on a Moog and recorded weird vocals through a 90's Yak-Bak. Got it recorded on tape but my 4 track don't work anymore to transfer.
I did all of this naked except my slippers, tripping face in the living-room with colored lights. my girlfriend came home weirded right the fuck out seeing me dancing naked and blaring alien music.
Last time I ate em I had a fucked up alien encounter.
Thanks brother/sister, appreciate the gesture. I think I just gotta get off my ass and figure out how to fix it; it's a Tascam MF-P01. It turns on and plays, but the headphone/output jack produces no sound to any source.
I think I would be grateful to see my sweet boyfriend tripping and making alien music upon coming home. That sounds awesome. My vision? I was in a joan jett-esque 80s rock band playing bass with some sick black clothes. No fucking clue why or how. I share a last name and ancestry with the guy that played violin on the Titanic as it went down. bonkers coincidence.
Alien abduction, you say?
That is pretty creepy.. I kept hearing this high pitched buzz that sounded like some sort of communication. I started drawing it and aliens were what I ended up drawing. Then I got freaked out. Put on some tool and made dinner. It was a good cabin experience.
I gave up camping, hunting, outdoorsing for nearly every activity that's doable outside. I'm always knowing that whatever I do, there are thirty million others just like me that did/wanted to perform the exact same activity. So I don't even bother.
If the best I can give nature is to not be the three millionth and twenty second person to drive up, build a fire, set up a tent, and leave 18 hours later, then I'll be that person.
The outdoors has no more "raw-ness" to it. It's like nothing but nature preserves, now. So humans don't just steamroll it like they will eventually anyway.
I have a horrible pessimistic viewpoint that tells me no matter how wild the future forests will be, they'll always be "hollow" when I compare it against the demonstrations from my youth about howuch mystery there still is out there.
So many movies from before 2000 still could play with long-lost temples and unexplored regions of the Amazon, congo jungle, etc.
Now, and in the future, I expect it'll be much more "commune with nature," and nothing with "exploring natural mysteries."
So depressing.
its like how once youve played minecraft for 20 or 30 hours, youve already seen everything that can come out at night. Youve already seen all possibilities, now you can just build bigger and better structures, it mirrors society
You can do better than abstaining from enjoying life! You can regenerate ecosystems, plant native seeds in crumbling ecosystems, divest from the supply chain by learning about sustainable farming (permaculture). And it's all fun and extremely fulfilling. Human ingenuity took biologic symbiosis to the next level: cognitive symbiosis. The fact that our cognition has led to symbiosis that was leveraged to form agriculture, means that the one thing that really sets apart humans from other animals, in an ecosystems sense, is our ability to optimize nature without nature first having to affect our genes via trial and error. The ability for memories to then be fuel for our decision making, planning, and strategizing; whereas in other species memories are (generally) applied after being prompted by the environment. Nature owns the most optimized energy capture infrastructure on earth, but humans own the most time-optimized and capable problem solving faculties that we are aware of ever existing. Nature solves problems by trying random things and saving the good results. It corrects mistakes by applying vast amounts of time to its systems. We solve problems by observing all kinds of results, then factoring all our experiences into our situation (or a mentally simulated situation bounded only by our creativity) to produce a planned outcome, thus allowing us to re-spend our time as its built into our wisdom by jumping to our relatively optimized knowledge of what to do in situations like xyz. Other intelligent animals have that ability, but they lack the ability to sit down, ponder the future, and plan years in advance.
What humans offer the world right now, other than death, is the ability to apply lessons learned over eons to today, every day. To make simple decisions with small amounts of energy that might have an effect that amounts to decades of an area attempting to restore naturally.
How long does it take nature to find the exact right spot for a new tree in an area that could really benefit from a particular species? It might never happen; in the case of oak trees a specific genus of bird must pick a viable acorn and then plant it in a viable spot. It must then also forget about that spot so it doesn't eat it later. Its genes receive feedback based on the generational results of its acorn planting behavior. Its behavior is optimized over the course of eons. Still, the ability for birds to plant oak trees (something oak trees have now evolved around), is an accident retained in their DNA, becoming nature's knowledge. Meanwhile, humans can carefully observe characteristics of growing oaks and compare them to characteristics in their surroundings as well as changes in characteristics over time; then we use that to the benefit of any oak-based ecosystem we observe. When it comes down to making wise changes to our ecosystems, the actions are usually pretty trivial but the details of implementation and results are what are impeccable.
Hopefully I've made the point that our wisdom and our will to apply it is our saving grace in all this. Complacency is a form of disregarding our will to apply or otherwise acknowledge our wisdom when it tells us something bad. A mass of people traumatized into complacency will naturally feel empty when the reasons they are complacent just don't add up. We were raised with hedged bets that complacency would work for forever, or at least for our lifetimes. Nature is in a sorry state, such that it can't even be looked at by its members without putting a pit in their stomach. To me, that's just the sign that complacency is no longer worth it, even socially.
So you can go camping, but better than that, you can work towards a local ecosystem that's fulfilling to build, live in, and sustain, so that you don't need to look forward to camping so much anymore. Plus I believe it's the only reasonable way to attempt to survive for a decent while (like until you're old). Everyone else will be wandering through the woods realizing they rarely produce food for humans.
I fully comprehend and understand that feeling. Also, don't take this as advice, it's just a friendly nudge to someone who appreciates the feeling of discover: you need to go to Maine. There are woods, there are forests, and there then is the US state of Maine. It's actually some of the largest and densest areas of hardwood in the world, and believe it or not, there are truly *frontiered* areas, like, literally, they have not been ground charted since the territory was taken into it's modern form.
I joked once, but you know what also has lost the lust of adventure? The internet. I am 34, I remember back in the late 90s, finding things online was *hard!* I mean, sure, we had Lycos, Alta-Vista, and a very primitive Yahoo!, but in general, those search engines returned like one or two useful links at best, and garbage at worst. The dark web/Onion services are very reminiscent of the old cleanweb internet, imo.
Today, you can type in virtually anything and find it in one second. To make matters worse, you know that a billion other people have also searched it, and found it. So, I can relate to that feeling you get from your hikes into the woods. Be it an outdoorsman, or an internet guru, the feeling of adventure is seeded deep inside the human psyche. It is not a social or societal construct, it is deeply ingrained into us as a species, modulated by things that far predate our own species, like neurotransmitters such as dopamine, and hormones like testosterone.
To feel as is there is no more adventures to be had is almost akin to saying, there is no longer a purpose to much of the way we live. Our whole society is based on the ideas of discovery and growth. Now we must wrestle with the very real and very uncomfortable conundrum that, as you so aptly say it, every tent has been pitched, and every hike has been trekked. That is more than your opinion, or desire, that is a deep, primordial drive that is at conflict with our sick world. But, perhaps adventures still do await, to those who can get even more curious...
Enjoy Maine.
it's heart-breaking. i love nature like i'm married to it, if that makes sense. the trees look sick. some are already dead in my neighborhood. the big hackthorn tree down the block has been a friend to me for going on 20 yrs. i named it 'joe'.
black locust tree outside front window that i've watched grow since 1995 into a towering beauty with elegant tree limbs. named her 'julia' many years ago. she's not doing well, even with the help of professional tree surgeons and bracing.
then there's 'ed', a massive red maple tree. again, not looking well and dealing with heat stress.
I'm desperately trying to plant more on my land. Mine seem to be dying at an alarming rate. There's a whole bunch that fell and grew up under a big ol cedar in the back, and i transplanted them to the front. 9 went, six survived.
why though? Nature is going to be fine, its humans that wont be, nature will throw the craziest storm you've ever seen at humanity if it has to, and its looking like it will have too.
Do you ever have people who've never spent much time outdoors tell you that you're a doomer and there's so much to enjoy? Or that we're lucky and should enjoy nature while we can?
Because I do and it pisses me right off. The good times are already gone. The nature that used to bring a smile to my face, it disappeared years and years ago. I traveled the planet looking for nature's refuge but it turns out that was none. The biodiversity has been replaced with monocultures of invasive species. Remaining old growth is sick and dying, while new growth will never grow old. Even the wildlife acts stressed and anxious.
Speaking of which, I've seen animals that learned how to beg and forgot how to forage, and nicotine addicted critters that will drop bear pedestrians for their cigarrettes.
(Judging by the reduction of this coinciding with the increase in vaping, I'm guessing it's the MAOIs that they're after and not the nicotine - I can't blame them, I'm depressed too.)
And the real kicker: If there is a pristine sanctuary out there, I actually *don't* want to visit it anymore. I don't want *anyone* to visit it. If the only way I can support nature is by not experiencing it, then fuck me I guess I'll just watch *Blue Planet* for the millionth time. (While some asshat from SLC visits and ruins it with a fleet of 4-wheelers anyway, I'm sure.)
I'm burnt out. There's no winning. All you can do is kind of dissociate from your environment and hyperfocus on something that fails to remind you of the death and dying going on outside your window - and that's becoming increasingly difficult, too!
Nature is still beautiful and worth reveling in. Don't let the bastards grind you down. This makes me think about the other post today about trying to create a diagnosis of climate anxiety as a mental disorder. Nothing most people can effectively do about collapse at this point, but dwelling on the horror of it all also isn't going to help you at all. Smoke em if you got em. Appreciate it all while it's still appreciable.
Then again maybe I'm experiencing some sort of disordered denialism.
I never liked the idea of being a 'tourist' of nature. Going for hikes, walks, daytrips 'into nature', only to 'go back' again, back into our disconnected human realm.. id much rather live within and with it. Parks depress me. I intend to buy my own empty land very soon
just a standard feature of late stage capitalism is misery
suck up the houses on the market, constrain finances, constrains business
constrains economy, how ironic
no work, no pay, just dull jack boys, grind the rent money, grind the mortgage money
you will have nothing
>Despite the respondents' economic pessimism, 68% of people polled said they were "pretty happy" or "very happy" in life.
According to the poll, people aren't actually miserable. It's wild that Americans can see material conditions crumbling, their job outlooks getting worse, food prices skyrocketing, housing prices decimating newer generations, all while remaining "pretty happy" or "very happy".
Americans have had propaganda blasted at them since the cradle, telling us that happiness is a state of being, not some economic value or whatever.
Same thing as having a "dream job," mental cognitive conditioning for the new Americans to service the great machine and lie to themselves about how fulfilling, rewarding,and happy they are, as slaves to the grind.
If all our basic needs were met and we weren't forced to work to survive, then I imagine people would dream of work because it'd become an outlet and a way to occupy time. But as things are now, where work is a way to keep treading deep water, work is a nightmare no one wants to keep having.
If I could wake up and choose what I'm doing for the day, how much of it I want to do, and for how long I'd be perfectly happy. But work tells me what I'm going to do, how much, and sets time limits on it. And don't dare get off task, that's a write-up. Don't dare take time off, that'll end in termination. And even keeping the job still means barely having enough money to survive after I pay for all the things that make it so I can show up for another day.
I just blew a whole day's wage on a tire today. I had to work a whole day to pay for the tire so I can keep showing up. What a fucking joke.
This is where I'm at too. I don't hate working. I hate HOW MUCH I have to work. If I wasn't forced to I do it I genuinely think I would voluntarily go in at least a couple days a week. Because I'm forced to spend the majority of my waking hours there just to afford a roof under which I can sleep before going back to work, and a vehicle to drive me there instead of enjoying life or spending time with family...that's the part that makes me want to blow my brains out.
Same. How about a 32 hour work week? Imagine if people could have time to be people again? Time to have babies and actually raise them. Time to rest and time to exercise.
I would love a 32 hr week. That's not even that much less but it would make such a difference mentally. Of course nobody will give us that at the same pay level even though it would make most people more productive.
This is why I don't understand consumerism / nicer brands
Money has three purposes: Pay for surviving (groceries rent bills), pay to have moments of fun (restaurants booze shows) and, if possible, *work less*.
That nicer car or that bigger house means you just made your runway shorter between jobs, or your "retirement" later, or the side hustle necessary. But there is almost *nothing* money might serve to do more crucial (to me at least) than to have one more day without a boss telling me what to do or think.
Financial independence is a special level of money. If I had a windfall, my first calculation would be: is there a way to live off this for the rest of my life without working?
Maybe I'd occupy myself with things that others would consider "an occupation". Maybe not. None of their fucking business really.
"Work to live" definitely describes me better than "live to work". But even that is a little too up-beat and social-climby. How about "work *to not work*".
I definitely agree with the whole "I'd occupy my time with what *I* want to do" sentiment. In fact, I think everyone would love to occupy their time with what they *want* to do.
If I really had my way, I'd have a farm with some animals and some crops. I wouldn't mind getting up to feed my animals, chill with them, then go check on my crops if it wasn't such an unaffordable way to live nowadays. Unless someone already has money, they can't just go take up farming because the land, the animals, and equipment are too expensive.
Same with pretty much everything else. Some people want to make artistic things. Some people want to build. Some people want to create useful things. Unfortunately, the cost stands in their way and we never get to truly exist as human be-ings, if I'm allowed to steal that term from the hippies.
I fucking know, right? The system is so fucked up that most of us can't afford to get to work if we have car trouble. It doesn't make any sense because if your boss really wants you to show up for work, you'd assume s/he'd be paying you enough that a tire problem would just cost you your time, not your whole job.
This! THIS! I always ask people what would you do if you didn't have to work, and I always get the lamest answers, or then there's the confused ones: "What do you mean not work?"
I don't mean do NOTHING, I mean not having to work just to survive. I mean: What if you could chose daily what activity you were gonna participate in that moves society/humanity forward. How can we do what's best for the collective us??
FWIW, I spent 3 hours yesterday beating back blackberries from my homestead, for the remainder of the day, I rested. "Removing invasive species for safety" seems to be a better goal for us.
If I wasnt forced to work there are DEFINITELY tedious jobs I would do for fun that actually also serve a purpose beyond helping or benefitting just myself.
I say tedious because 1) most ppl dont like to sit and do a single task for hours and 2) I draw for fun even thought it frustrates me sometimes. I already got a little taste of that and its not bad. Why? Bc if Im tired I can put it down and pick ut up whenever I want.
Honestly, I think a lot of people. It’s just that they dream about specific kinds of work. Professional athletes, musicians, writers, woodworkers, etc.
Those are all work. Nobody dreams about work they find degrading or menial, which is most jobs under capitalism.
Those are all work, but they're also things that people would do for nothing and also enjoy as fulfilling hobbies.
Some work just has to be done, though. Produce has to be gathered, garbage has to be picked up, food has to be prepared, people in nursing homes (or elderly parents living in your house) need their personal care tended to.
The problem is inadequate pay for much of the work crucial to modern society.
> Produce has to be gathered, garbage has to be picked up, **food has to be prepared, people in nursing homes (or elderly parents living in your house) need their personal care tended to.**
People do also dream of being chefs and doing care work for elderly people, to be fair. Also farmers and other essential things like that.
> Those are all work, but they're also things that people would do for nothing and also enjoy as fulfilling hobbies.
People absolutely would not be professional athletes for nothing, just for one example. They would play pickup basketball a few times a week. It’s very different obviously.
All besides the point, though. People do dream of work, they just dream of certain kinds of works. That’s all I said.
> People absolutely would not be professional athletes for nothing, just for one example.
Hard disagree, here.
"Being number one" at something, winning races / games / physical feats-- that's gonna have a huge draw, for anyone with time.
I could get behind someone who dreamed of being a Cooper. Imagine how great it would be to make barrels? I mean it, seriously. Barrels are really cool things and they serve all kinds of purposes.
I love it though when you apply for a job and the person interviewing says they are looking for someone with a passion for customer service or some shit. The problem is, they'll usually find someone who has brainwashed/waterboarded themselves or car batteried their own nipples and genitalia enough that they have convinced themselves they do indeed have such a passion.
I have seen these people in action, simple toadying fucks that they are. Can only assume they spend their free time crying in a cupboard somewhere.
Artists/musicians/writers kind of do, but the barriers for entry into those lines of work can be monumentally jaunty. Tons of massively-talented creators end up working in jobs like construction, driving, or the service industry.
I like my job. It's creative work and fulfilling. I don't have to manage people. People don't have to manage me. I could do this every day because the challenges and problems are different every day.
That said, most of the time, I'd rather be out in nature, enjoying myself.
Even then, the other side of having a "Dream job" is the idea of loving what you're doing so much it feels more like you happen to get paid for doing something you'd already be doing.
No one dreams of working. They dream of work that doesn't feel like work. It says a lot that very few people achieve this.
Me, sometimes, sort of.
I do honestly enjoy the work I do, but I know for a fact that I’m not living the life I should based on what I provide for my community.
Or how money doesn't buy happiness. I don't won't money because I think it'll make me happy. I want money so I don't have an anxiety attack every month when I give 50% of my monthly income to my landlord
But if you don't give 50% of your paycheck to the landlord, then the landlord won't be able to afford the skyrocketing costs of going to Hawaii for two weeks every year!
We still also have more disposal income (not sure if per capita) than any other nation. So although we get screwed over on quality of living and workers rights, theoretically we still as a whole are richer than our peers abroad or in the western hemisphere
We sure messed everything up when we tied it all to some imaginary value that we all agreed the green cotton slips signified.
We might have been a half decent species, otherwise.
This is it, your next-door neighbor (Mexico) has 7 times lower income while paying very similar or higher prices for most stuff, except rent, that btw is soaring due to Americans moving here.
Still people report being happy, I guess we manage to find happiness in any situation.
Not to shit on your viewpoint, but I think the problem is just the opposite - happiness really is just a state of awareness, it's a state of gratitude and appreciation. I know many people, some are very poor and some are in the 9-figure-net-worth range. I know absolutely brilliant people, and I know people who have trouble doing the basics. You can be anywhere along the IQ spectrum and still be "successful" or "a failure", in many aspects. Yet the point of telling you this is that, there seems to be almost no correlation between the rich, the poor, the smart, the dumb, and happiness. I know it extends beyond career into personal life. I know married people, perpetual bachelor playboy types, I know gay guys, girls, bi, asexual, non-binary, you name it - and again, there seems to be virtually no correlation between any of this and happiness.
It frankly raises in my mind the very real and often overlooked aspect of simply physiology on happiness. I read once where countries that had higher lithium levels in their groundwater had statistically significant lowered levels of all violent crimes, and way lower rates of depression. But these sorts of things are very confounding, and hard to control for in an experiment.
The point is, I have no idea what happiness is or how to attain it, per se. But I can tell you, it's a pretty shitty goal, because it's hard to target and very often elusive. But I do know the one way to be miserable is to try to live someone else's life. Think for yourself, question authority. To live authentically to me is happiness, and the thing is, that means something different to everyone. Bring on the downvotes!
No worries. I didn't feel shat on.
My own opinion is that neither the definition of happiness nor of dream job belong to anybody in the singular, but to all people and creatures, in the plural.
My message was that American propaganda has been around a long time, so who the fuck really knows what happiness is.
It's for everyone to choose for themselves.
Science argues survival is improved by it...usually. sometimes. Maybe.
This and seeing unhappiness as a personal failing not a symptom of a failing society (though this is changing). Also moving the goal post of “happiness”
They're not happy. They just think this horrible shit is "normal". If they're not literally in a cardboard box on the street propaganda dictates "you have it pretty good" even if you don't.
I think these are the same type of people who believe in heaven. My main question for those that believe in heaven is how could you be blissful in heaven KNOWING that hell exists and endless numbers of decent human beings are being tortured for not believing in the "right god". Seems like the only people capable of happiness in heaven would be terrible people. And there's my answer. They are selfish, greedy, terrible people that can watch the world crumble for others, because they got theirs.
That's a very Jungian approach to it. But I think what you mean is, all people do inherently have an evil side. This is sort of an underlying theme throughout Christianity, really.
Not sure how anyone can be pretty happy or very happy. I'm honestly burnt out to the point that everyday is pure stress 24/7. I don't have the luxury of this so called happiness. Sure my job pays good and I don't have to do it often but rent unfortunately is making it harder to maintain that nice job. Add insult, car insurance went up because insurance company is dishing out higher rates to everyone due to climate change. Which is something else that hasn't been mentioned, everyone's insurance rates bout to start going higher with more climate change related disasters happening with insurance payouts.
Americans are good at confusing their consumerism/narcissism-induced fevers and chemical addictions with 'happiness.' In a lot of cases, the externalities just end up getting dumped on their kids or poorer people, who'll be a lot less hesitant to act out because of the misery/stress.
I hope corporate overlords are “pretty happy” or “very happy” with their decisions which have gutted the economic futures of the businesses they helm. No one will be able to buy their products and no one will be able to work for them. No one is making money or having kids. Degrowth through attrition.
I think I have a skewed idea of the level of misery in this country. Because I'm miserable I assume most other people are too, but it's not the case. About two thirds of folks are pretty happy (or so they say). Maybe the US isn't as broken as I thought. Maybe the US is this way because a majority of Americans like it this way. Thinking about it makes me even more miserable.
Americans would never admit to being unhappy because the environment in which they live discourages it. They hide their emotional state to prevent being perceived as weak by others. To admit being unhappy or unsatisfied would prompt a bunch of automated responses of, *”It’s much worse elsewhere!”* and *”If you’re so unhappy, then leave”* - all of which is rooted in blind nationalism. I’ll never understand it. I worry trying to will drive me insane one day
>It's wild that Americans can see material conditions crumbling, their job outlooks getting worse, food prices skyrocketing, housing prices decimating newer generations, all while remaining "pretty happy" or "very happy".
Pharmaceuticals
Because being sad is a mental health issue and no one wants anyone to think you have a mental health issue because that makes you weak.
No one's unhappy. We're all far too *busy* to be unhappy!
accept death, move past it, live life each day to your best, no need to think every day upon the abyss, if you stare to long into it it might stare back.
I can say i am on of those who are very happy but i am only happy in my own life. I am absolutely anguished at the thought of a real, tangible future in this society.
I'd generally disagree, if you check out the Census household pulse survey health data for Feb 1-13 of 2023 (the most recent week of data) about and estimated 39% of people report "feeling down or depressed" and 40% "[have] little interest or pleasure in doing things" several days a week or more. ([Health Table 2: Symptoms of Depression Experienced in the Last Two Weeks](https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2023/demo/hhp/hhp54.html)).
So 2 in 5 people (if you believe the Census' methods for generalizing the data) meet the clinical symptoms for depression. All this stuff is highly dependent on exactly how the questions are phrased, I'm sure lots of people (especially in the US) will be "pretty happy" if you asked them to self report their mood, even if suffering from the malaise of our current era.
I'd say it paints a pretty bleak picture of the US population post-covid.
Look mate, depression is kicking my ass already. I am happy in my little life and I do stuff that makes me feel like I’m helping others. Global shit is too big for our minds to comprehend so I just do what I can. I know that we’re fucked but at least I’ll be with my community as we try to survive the collapse together. I am very well aware of all the things that are going wrong but I look towards a solar punk future.
Probably because the incoming economic troubles haven't hit most people yet. Like, I'm pretty pessimistic about ever being able to buy a house, or ever retire, or ever get a higher income, but right now... I'm pretty happy. Still worried about the future, but the present is fine.
Your words paint a bleak picture of the late stage capitalist world we find ourselves in. How poetic, how tragic. But why focus on the negative? Surely, there is beauty in the way the rent money grinds away at our souls, leaving us hollowed out and empty, but with a roof over our heads. And the mortgage money, oh the sweet agony of watching it disappear into the pockets of the wealthy elite. It's like a dance, a waltz with death, but death is the landlord and we are the tenants. And what could be more romantic than that? So let us revel in our misery, embrace our dull jack boy existence, and accept our fate as mere cogs in the capitalist machine. After all, we will have nothing, but at least we will have each other.
The shootings in American schools are horrific. I spoke with a few marines who are out now and they said each state should just hire armed marines to patrol the schools border. If the asshats want to just give a dog and pony show someone else needs to step up.
im having fun. nothing to be depressed about , its just the totality. In fact if you think its over, thats all the more reason to kick back and relax and have fun.
you dont see dogs worrying. arf arf
Lol. What? Why? This is the greatest country on earth, right? Right? Everything will be fine, right?
I’m an immigrant who came here for a better life… and found this freakin shitshow. What an absolute joke of a culture and society. Spoiled, indoctrinated idiots with a penchant for violence and grift. Decedents of Europe’s criminal detritus and religious lunatics. The most prolific and stubborn slave nation in the world. Last nation to cling to its state sanctioned shame. Genocidal maniacs who stole the national wealth of a 100 million native people and wiped their cultures from the face of the planet.
I can’t leave fast enough. But it’s oddly fun to watch everyone squirm in their own filth as they wake up to just how incredibly gullible they were to believe the propaganda in my first paragraph.
Yeah my parents came here for a better life and they got it but Im going back to the mother land because for all its faults kids don't die in schools at a numbing pace.
Put the American dream to the curb and shoot it like your kid's new puppy. That's about what reality is for the current generation, and even the one that grew up before it.
The words they're looking for are "widespread despair" and there's nobody that's going to tell them a chicken in every pot otherwise.
Nope, but that's about how shitty the greater United States has become. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness seem to have been given conditions and terms, and they look like the ones you see at those rent-to-own places that charge you 24% interest monthly on a coffee table.
It’s getting to the point where it’s starting to effect my own sanity. All I think about all day is, by what means can we claw back the money these POS have been stealing from us for the past 45 years. I’d sign up for that fight in a second
Can't even ride a goddam bike to calm the nerves without worrying about getting running over by crazy drivers.
My response to "how you're doing"? Is: "Trying to stay sane in this crazy world"
They're going to bring back slavery. I can't wait until this whole shit show collapses. Slaves had it better after the fall of the roman empire, since they were no longer slaves, and had a good time up until the black death which precipitated the rise of capitalism and slavery again.
Just look around! With what money am I to do the fun with?! I play video games and with a kid on the way that feels like a luxury and that is BULLSHIT.
SS: For most young people, life is objectively less promising than their parents’. An entire generation grew up during the 2008 economic crisis and its various fallouts. Every other day school shootings in America is on the news
And our leaders are breaking down the citizens rights, and many are too bigoted to see it. Mass resignation is a first sign of a society in downfall spiral, eventually culminating into collapse.
I have never been to a concert. Outside of the free one that was sponsored by my high school while I was in high school. It was the jets and it was alright
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My good Sir/Madam,
I set forth for you...a quest of sorts.
Get thee to the Youtube and search for 'Ween Live DVD', from a concert they most gloriously performed in Chicago in the decade of the aughts.
I say to you, it may very well heal your soul in ways most unexpected and sublimely DELIGHTFUL!
Yours in Boognish,
Whim Bird
man get into your local underground scenes. you'll find $5 tickets and a great community. if there's anything that takes the misery out of life its that
I was telling my boomer pops, man I’ve only seen like a few years of good economic runnin
07/08 hit me right out of high school and wasn’t until ‘12 that I found steady employment. Then 2020 was fubar and it’s been going on ever since, except this time inflation is really hitting my little family hard. It’s good times good times.
And that’s not counting all the global crises and collapse that’s coming
I can not be the only one taping there foot waiting for maybe ? The banks to fail ?, War to start ? China to fail? Usa to fail? Water supply to .... to late i think philly having issues? Euro rivers i read have 2 years of water maybe left..., on an on an on WHEN SOMETHING GONE LAND ??? There is nothing fun about this i tell you that everything seems like 2008 an i do not just mean banks .
\*digs in to sources folder of stuff that made me spit stuff out of my mouth an yes it is labeled that\* I will not tell you what to think but i will give information. Click "closing summary" than go click"2023" Prepare for something to fall out of your mouth, it might be your jaw on the floor but pick it uphttps://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/bank/bfb2023.htmlITS BAD BAD BAD!!!!
absolutely , click closing summary , you see that thing that says 2007-2008. look at the graph . now look at 2009-2022 its basically zero . Now click 2023. AN LETS THE GAMES BEGIN. its 2008 again . also look up "s.i.v.b stock" an click "1 month view" from $267 a share to $0.40cents a share..... its not good than go look up "signature bank stock" click "1month" $113 to .... 0.13cents.... I will let you tell me what you think this means no really please reply (: i love informing others.
Ok, I don't mean to split hairs here but. That spike in 07/08 - that's a smidge different.
Bank failures due to loan defaults and what not. This caused a credit market lock-up.
The one that you're seeing now, yeah there's some loan defaults and what not, but not anywhere near the scale from before.
SVB's failure was caused by a bank run, which is different, and you can pretty much blame VCs for that noise.
I think they are trying to tell you there is a thing called the derivatives market and it's like... part of the stock market but when you think of all the actual existing stocks & bonds available, the derivatives market is like 1000x that size or something fucking insane.
Each of those are "derived" (see term derivative) from a combination of math shit layered on top of one or more underlying securities (stocks/bonds). Then they are packaged and resold as that derivative.
Again, the derivatives market is MASSIVE.
Basically, all these things like SVB are packaged up as little pieces of bigger things all over the world over and over and over and over and over (like the 2008 mortgage backed securities) and once you pull a bunch of strings the whole thing can unravel
and we're looking at a massive unravelling
not sure if this is what you were alluding to /u/Thissmalltownismine but you seem so interested in spreading the word I'm curious to know if I'm more or less on the same path
God gosh , he hit the nail on the head so perfectly it went straight threw the piece of wood. Yes an we are extremely screwed. Once this happend in 2008 a lot of things never changed including the dodd frank act it was never implemented.... so yea here we go for round 2.
woo hoo! hey thanks
I will say, as I work in investment banking, I could not FUCKING BELIEVE as of just one year ago, the banks were all sniffing around the toes of the crypto bros because suddenly they were getting super sad missing out on all wild money action.
They even started futzing with ideas to get into crypto. Not my bank, but other banks. Mine is super conservative (yes it's my very own bank ha ha/no obvs not) and no crypto but yes banks were starting to strongly consider it.
WHOOF thankfully no this thing popped just in time but three years from now the real players would have been involved even more.
Anyway yeah we're all gonna die. Are we in /collapse? ah yes we are okay good. *sigh* banks are fucking insane
ok goody i got a educated person! How much bs have you heard latly give me details please but keep it anon (: ive heard 141billion tax fraud in france just happend last week , i heard ubs got toxic assest from credit sus they cant close , i heard dustche bank is having trust issues ....
> 141billion tax fraud in france
yeah I used to work at BNPP avec les francaises
Well I know a lot of people over that one weekend (two weeks ago) moved LOTS of their money/accounts to the bank I work at which is a very uh it's a cornerstone of the banking industry and it aint going nowhere.
Yes the top bad ones are wells, deutsche, credit suisse (tanked) yes it's not good but at the moment things don't seem as packed with immediate fear as I think they should be frankly. I work in technology so we all hope for our jobs right?
meanwhile outside of work I am also in the startup community which is seeing its spigot of funding cut off immediately - thing is, that's all tech funding and I'm in consumer products so none of the tech people were ever going to fund me anyway but if you go to a startup event it's 99% tech so it's ... well I guess we'll see but I expect VC contagion regardless due to the economy
I thought UBS basically bought CS in which case yeah ewwwww what are they supposed to do with it? I don't know. I watch this guy named Patrick Boyle on YouTube he does great explainer videos.
> as packed with immediate fear as I think they should be frankly.
Man you anit lying. time to drop some stone cold facts on your ass my new friend. cds= insruance if the bank fails bassicly. [goldman](https://macrovar.com/credit-default-swaps/the-goldman-sachs-group-credit-default-swaps/), [jpmorgan](https://macrovar.com/credit-default-swaps/jpmorgan-chase-co-credit-default-swaps/), [wells fargo](https://macrovar.com/credit-default-swaps/wells-fargo-company-credit-default-swaps/) , [ubs](https://macrovar.com/risk-management/ubs-credit-default-swaps/) You get the point this is some fucked up shit ya know .
I will tell you this and I don't know what to think either, but the guys I work with who are old hands - the ones who have been deep in the trenches for like... god one guy mentioned the 80s so a long ass time, they are not phased
I think maybe they don't understand the markets and they should be
sometimes I actually AM smarter than everyone else and it wasn't just my imagination
but I don't know, sometimes they pull some magic banking bullshit after they all get together (this is real) in a room and agree. If you've ever read the Michael Lewis books you'd know in 2008 they all got together down on Wall Street and this is while I was at BNPP - couple years later at a rooftop party the (US region) CEO told me he had been there too - all the CEOs of all the major banks had been down there in that room. I was kinda gobsmacked, he seemed to have thought it was quite epic as well.
So basically - you get all those guys in a room and god knows what they may do to try to put a stopgap but it's always just kicking the can down the road, we'll see what happens it can't go on like this
oh my boss told me to get out $5000 cash or I might be sorry he told me that last week I haven't done it
BNPP did that whole Iraqi Oil For Food bs, I was working for the people who swept that under the rug. They got in big trouble later and I wondered about all the Oil For Food files I never bothered to read but had access to. Shame.
[this is my best guess where to get you started .](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPOv72Awo68) Come back if you have questions i will try to help you .
Same. Like something unseen before, like a category 6 hurricane (250mph winds) that wipes out a major city, or sustained temperatures of 130 degrees somewhere that kills a million people.
Wow, those would be really bad. Worst scenario I've got on hand is a total power grid failure in Phoenix in the summer causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands who can't evacuate.
My favorite doom scenario right now is the rapid progression of AI, really rooting for AGI to beat climate change, economic collapse or civil war.
Turned the pessimism into a mental game show, lol..
Are you going to war ? To fight for your country? Unless that taking the disablied i anit going not sure what a person who can barley use there hands gone do so i think im safe.
.... i anit got the balls to say that on a public form when on 3/07/2023 the "restrict act was submited to congress" [the restrict everything act ai , pcs , phones an no f.o.i.l request needed](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/686/text?s=1&r=15)
Why would we not be pessimistic? Low wages, corporate greed and control, high inflation and housing costs, social currency…. It’s not a good time in the U.S. right now.
If there’s a chance Biden loses in 2024, it’ll be because of inflation. That’s an historical death sentence for the U.S presidency.
Lol I had more spending money working at Walmart fresh out of high school than I do now teaching five classes with a PhD. Landlords and student loans take everything. Adjuncting pays nothing.
Fuck this country. It deserves climate change. And I'm a climate researcher, so I know that that means, lol.
Have fun with the wildfires this summer, you selfish fucks.
Other than greedy rich parasites, who on earth is naïve enough to think that the next generation will be worse off? We're lucky if human civilization makes it to 2040!
Currently in a state where minimum wage is 7.65 and food is the price as it is in other states (just moved from a state where the average starting wage is 13...)
I mean the Americans deserve what they get and all humans. It's obvious that they are willing to work and gain nothing while losing, basically everyone is dead from the inside, bunch of mechanical zombies, willing to concede anything to survive, to be a slave, and by that they make losers like the winners make except without a benefit.... If they don't strike then they shall suffer and they well deserve what happens next.
I keep trying to tell people this, but everyone looks at me like I’m crazy. My brother has finally realized it because he is also a student of history, but most are either in denial or too paralyzed with fear of losing what little they have left to do anything.
I was having a pretty tough time at the beginning of the pandemic but I found some self help influencers on tiktok that guided me to a path of happiness. I started working out, taking cold showers and stealing catalytic converters. now I have plenty of extra cash for vacations and daily entertainment.
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The only things keeping me happy or interested is my gaming console and sometimes my family, but I still find myself absolutely dreading my existence some days to the point this shit damn near drives me to tears.
I’ll get out this slump one day, I think. That or witness the collapse of the US and be completely free of all this needless, excessive stress and worry that plagues me.
Why is “consumer confidence” not plunging into the shitter month after month??? Fr I’d like to know??
-US Index of Consumer Sentiment is at a current level of 67.00, up from 64.90 last month and up from 62.80 one year ago. This is a change of 3.24% from last month and 6.69% from one year ago.
Nobody can afford to do anything fun. Our fun activities include ordering DoorDash and drinking beer. Pretty much soaks the rest of our leftover cash. Imagine being able to travel
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Mighty_L_LORT:
---
SS: For most young people, life is objectively less promising than their parents’. An entire generation grew up during the 2008 economic crisis and its various fallouts. Every other day school shootings in America is on the news
And our leaders are breaking down the citizens rights, and many are too bigoted to see it. Mass resignation is a first sign of a society in downfall spiral, eventually culminating into collapse.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/12505vz/no_ones_having_fun_surveys_show_soaring_us/je1rhm0/
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