Joxer thoughts?
Posted by Aniekins87@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 99 comments
Favorite Joxer moments? Or any thoughts on the direction his character went?
I really liked Joxer even while I was watching the show during the original run even though I’m not sure if that wasn’t the popular take. “Xena” does character development well in comparison to a lot of other shows. Maybe it’s the sheer amount of episodes and bringing back the same characters, but they all develop so much.
I liked the dynamic of Joxer, Xena, and Gabrielle. “Been There Done That” is a great episode elevated by him. I also think one of his shining moments is saving Gabrielle and Xena in “Return of Callisto”. Anyone have some thoughts good or bad about him?
Cute_Loan8325@reddit
I’ve always thought your opinion of Joxer says a lot about what you expect from Xena: Warrior Princess.
If you view the show as Xena’s epic journey to redeem herself for all the chaos she caused in her past, then Joxer actually fits perfectly. Xena spends the series building a family of choice—people she trusts, protects, and occasionally rescues from their own bad decisions. Joxer, despite all his bumbling, absolutely becomes part of that family.
And that’s what makes him work.
Joxer is the classic comic relief character. He’s the guy who shows up with a sword, a song, and way more confidence than ability. When the show gets dark—and let’s face it, it gets very dark—Joxer is the reminder that this is still a fun adventure series about chakrams, gods, and improbable acrobatics.
Sure, he couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn with his sword, but his heart was always in the right place.
Personally, I loved Joxer. His goofy optimism and wonderfully misguided attempts at heroism were part of the charm. He was the lovable warrior misfit who somehow kept tagging along with two of the most formidable women in television history.
And if we’re being honest, some of the Joxer hate probably came from Xena/Gabrielle shippers who saw his never-ending crush on Gabrielle as the ancient Greek equivalent of, “Read the room, buddy.”
But in the end, Joxer was loyal, sincere, and endlessly entertaining. He may not have been the hero he imagined himself to be, but he was exactly the friend Xena and Gabrielle needed.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I love what you said and totally agree. However, I was and am a Gabrielle/Xena shipper and love Joxer. I think a lot of the dislike for his character is people who don’t like comedic relief characters in general which I can understand.
I think his positive traits come from being in that category and helps the tone of the show not crater too dark at times. My only complaint about him is wishing he maybe had slightly more character development in the end.
Friendly-Mushroom-38@reddit
Sorry bub, never heard of ya.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
He very accidentally was a shining example of Eli’s message.
Joxer didn’t let fear define him, and he was full of love. All of the bravest things he ever did were because he loved someone else more than anything else in that moment.
In the world of Joxer, admitting to Virgil that he made up all the stories, changing them to make him the hero, was equally as brave as facing down Callisto over a horse.
He was just kindness and love clothed in kitchen utensils.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I like this analysis of Joxer. 😂
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
I miss Joxer. I’m struggling through s6. Man, some episodes are great, others are not entertaining. Ugh. The idea is great, execution not so much. Oh well.
Just saw my favorite one “old ares had a farm”. I love Horace!
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
S6 imo is amazing but also I understand what you’re saying and there’s a major feeling of loss because it’s like the OG recurring cast is gone due to the time jump or recently had died. Ephiny, Joxer, Autolycus, etc. I was thankful we had Aphrodite popping up, but you can feel kind of a disconnect with Xena and Gabrielle and the world around them because they’re living in a different time period (if that makes any sense which it probably doesn’t because this show has time periods existing in each other that didn’t in reality, lol) But I get what you’re saying. I understand why they maybe didn’t want a baby or toddler for the final season around too though. It’s just a lot going on.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
It’s more like pouring a lot of time and effort into plots that feel… plodding.
Overall, it’s fine, but the flow is kind of off.
I don’t know if i even make sense. But it’s like every two seconds, Gabrielle is having some crisis of self, Xena is constantly only fighting battles that will likely kill her so she dips out on Gabby, and there’s almost no connection to people around them other than whatever is forced in that moment.
It’s hard to explain. Like I LOVE Beowulf (his relationship with Xena — the friendly report — felt natural), but out of a bunch of random characters for three entire episodes, all of the actors that actually had any ability to act (I really didn’t like Odin), they all fell in love with Gabrielle in less than 4 seconds and were willing to die for her? Beowulf spent a whopping 6 seconds with Gabrielle before telling Xena he was basically in love with her. Brunhilda and Gabrielle spend like two days together and she’s ready to give up everything for Gabrielle to spend a year asleep on a rock because Gabrielle doesn’t love her back.
WHAT?
I feel like it’s the forced aspect of the relationships. I get they don’t have time to create all new characters, but when ares popped back up for the farm episode, I absolutely loved how comfortable it was between the three of them. I also liked the irritating neighbor lady and the warlords because they felt like they at least knew Xena in passing kinda thing.
I don’t know. In a lot of it, it could just be that it feels like every other actor was hired, not because of any actual modicum of talent, but because that’s who was left over in the area after LOtR came through and picked everyone that should have been there 🤣
I know that’s terrible! But I’m just struggling to connect with it and I always have. And I love the stories too. There’s just something… off.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I get what you’re saying. I honestly love the Beowulf episodes though, lol. S6 is like a series of one offs and short story plots like you said. I like some of the episodes a lot so I really don’t mind it, but I will say I think it was a mistake to create a season scattered like that and not build towards the finale at all if that’s how the show was going to end. Others mentioned maybe there should’ve been more episodes where Gabrielle is evolving more into the warrior princess under Xena’s guidance and some foreshadowing letting up to the finale.
That would’ve created a more cohesive season. I still appreciate the fact they made time to make episodes they knew their fanbase would appreciate. I personally liked the Norse episodes although I know they weren’t everyone’s cup of tea. I just go into the season knowing it’s more a series of one offs than anything else. I personally felt season six was way better than season five. They were probably still recovering from losing so many people to LotR too like you said.
My only thing I didn’t like is how disconnected they were from the time jump and I feel like the finale was a poor retcon choice that had no building beforehand or any sort of ties to the OG show and the characters and plot points that had been building the entire time except maybe Gabrielle’s journey coming full circle which was the only redeeming thing to me in it.
I wish Joxer had been around in the end and some different things had happened but it’s like my second favorite season in the series following season three. It’s different though so I get others may not like it that much.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Ok. I finally got to the episode I adore Eve. When she cusses and punches Michael hurst in the nose. I can totally see that being a Callisto reaction to an interview 🤣
I actually like Odin in this episode too. Maybe it was just the first half of the season that was odd to me.
Going back to it because I’m loving it.
Wanted to thank you for convincing me to stick with it!
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
No problem! Also I read your other explanation and I can see your POV. I still enjoy S6 despite a lot of those things you mentioned so I guess it just didn’t bother me as much as it may others. As for Eve, the season could’ve used more character development for her as you mentioned. Seeing her punch him in the nose is exactly what we needed lol. We just needed more time with her imo. There wasn’t time left because they wanted to focus more on Xena and Gabrielle and after season five, I would’ve rathered they did anyway. S6 is definitely a very different vibe to the show. I think it has some of the most hilarious episodes of the series though.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Honestly, the whole vibe switched after Old Ares Had a Farm. I’m absolutely loving it again. I think I was just having issues connecting with the first few episodes.
Also, after Eve whooped him in the face, she was a better rounded person. Her expressions were more human, less devoid of emotion. Even with the amazons when they tried to kill her (again), she seemed to barely say anything, yet there was just something about the portrayal. Like Livia and Eve finally came to some kind of understanding and could coexist inside the same body.
It’s like the actress sort of relaxed into the role more and I loved it.
Even Odin was better when he was pouting because he was sure Xena was there to steal the apples for herself.
It’s funny, I remember not liking s6 much, and it was confirmed for a few of the episodes. I remember the farm one in a lot of detail, and then every episode since then I’ve remembered from the very first scene — and I’ve remembered them fondly.
My assumption is that I didn’t like the first half of s6 the first time, and I’ve only ever rewatched the two or so episodes I remember liking, but never bothered to ever watch any part of the other ones. From where I’m sitting right now, the second half of s6 is some of the best Xena.
Except… I don’t like the fact I’m looking at ephany or whoever is in that episode at the moment and just knowing in my bones “this is the last time I’m going to see you.” I don’t like that at all. However, seeing mini-Borias was pretty awesome (Lucy and Marton just have a natural chemistry together — like ‘Dite and Ares — and I love the two of them on screen).
Hehe sorry. This is the first time I’m watching s6 in 23 years and it’s honestly a lot of fun. The last time I saw any of these episodes was with my mother and my sisters while my father complained we were watching “poopy tv again.” It’s been a very long time for these episodes and I’m actually really loving it.
I honestly can’t thank you enough for defending it and making me think “listen, girl, you are complaining but you’re missing something. Keep watching. It will get better or it won’t, but just do it.” Honestly, I enjoyed it so much I came back to find these comments to thank you for it. Your defense of it made me stubborn — which in my case means I have to stubbornly do my research to challenge my beliefs even if I’m not particularly loving it in that moment. Ep 10-17 (which I just finished) have been some of the best episodes and I am thrilled I challenged myself!
So far, I love most of a season that only a few days ago I disliked most of, so it’s a total net win!
Seriously, thank you for triggering my stubborn, even though you didn’t mean to. My stubborn let my happy me pop up (seriously I wanna learn how to use scythes!) yay!!
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
Glad you ended up enjoying it!
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
I did! Still getting through it because I’m actually savoring it, and as am happy as a clam.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
That’s the thing, I got the Xena love thing. The men that fell for her were basically all not the nicest guys, so their thoughts weren’t pure. It was lust. Gabrielle was different, at least for me. She was beautiful, inside and out, but she was someone that moved through life and people fell in love with her heart. It’s why I did understand Brunhilda, minus the whole sacrificing herself after two days (it felt like Najara on some level, but not quite as convincing). Beowulf literally saw her for like a tenth of a second before he walked away to talk to Xena and that was it. Claiming love after that short of time just feels like what happened with Eros and the arrows.
I don’t know, for that bit, I would have preferred if he was like “yo, your friend… I saw her, she’s hot” and fell in love after he at least saw her fight or something. It was like “oh, she’s in an Amazon-ish outfit 😍.”
Gabrielle was a deep person, and so far this season, it seems like everyone falls in love with her because she looks good in her outfit and with short hair and who she is doesn’t matter at all, when that’s all that matters to Gabrielle.
It’s like they couldn’t make men find Xena hot anymore because she got the “mommy” title, so they were like “hey Gabs, you’re up!”
Which is why I think I really liked her around ares. He didn’t like her, but he did care about her (despite his best efforts to hate her). She didn’t like him at all, but she was ok with him, and I loved that. It was a man who truly cared for her without confusing it with romantic love (like Eli, but less peaceful).
As a side note: it was on this most recent rewatch that I realized that Ares took her first based on only sound effects. It’s silly, but it made me happy 😆
I think the stories were all really good, detailed, well flushed out plots. I think there was a lot of extra stuff that just didn’t capture me as much. I think more of it had to do with the quality of the acting from many of the other cast members. The wooden nature, the bad delivery of lines… I just had trouble getting into it, or if I was, it ripped me out of it.
Like the stories they covered, I loved it. I loved the Norse episodes, it just took a lot of work to get through some bits of them, specifically with Odin, and now that I’m typing it out, I’m seeing that it was primarily him.
Between Odin and Livia/Eve, it was just not the easiest bits to get through. And the time jump didn’t bother me at all. It was somewhat disconnected because it sometimes felt like that 25 years was 90 years and other times where it felt like it was maaybe 24 hours, but that didn’t really bother me. Because of that time jump, none of the previous people could be in it and I didn’t really expect them to be. The disconnect made sense.
I haven’t gotten to the finale again yet. I finished the farm episode and I was like “I need to just sit and be happy with that because it was AWESOME!”
I watched it on original run only. On all my rewatches, I sort of stopped after we meet Livia. I like Augustus and Ares, but otherwise I just didn’t really like it other than a few specific episodes which I have seen repeatedly. I have since realized that I do like the stories, but I feel kind of the same way about Livia/Eve as I do about Odin, although I do like her more.
I realize I’m in the minority 😆
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I don’t really agree about the point about not the nicest guys fall for Xena immediately and it was always about lust. I can think of a few instances where some decent ones fell for her rather quickly. I know in the first season there’s a man who’s lost his wife and he has two kids who takes to her immediately and even asks her to stay with him after she rescues his children. I don’t remember the episode name for that one. Xena wears his deceased wife’s dress in it. There’s some other very quick romances.
I think you could argue Gabrielle was attracted to Xena immediately too. 🤷♀️ Maybe not in an immediate lust way but just attracted to her whole persona and how she lived her life. She wanted to run away with her right after she met her.
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think the women who showed interest in Gabrielle were portrayed as more strange than the suiters that Xena had. Gabrielle does have a good heart and I think it’s something some people can see and be drawn to immediately. Xena was. I do think the season six one offs did lead to lack of build up for some of the stories, I understand what you’re saying but I still don’t agree the women who were attracted to Gabrielle were forced because it was a short time span but the men who were attracted to Xena weren’t . I think Gabrielle gave off a warrior vibe and a good heart and was also beautiful enough to warrant that kind of attention but that’s just my opinion. But again I see what you’re saying in how it was a LOT in a short span of episodes. I still enjoyed them though so I really didn’t have an issue with them.
I also felt it made more sense for women to be attracted to Gabrielle towards the end as well because of the kind of warm caring vibe she gave off. Even Aphrodite felt it with her and it was an interesting parallel with Gabrielle/Aphrodite and Xena/Ares. But I enjoyed Gabrielle and Ares banter as well.
But we all like different things about the show and that’s always cool to hear others’ opinions about it! I liked the actress who played Eve, I thought she was a good combination of Xena and Callisto. I wish they had done a bit more with her in the last season but I know the time crunch and the ending is the show made it a situation where they had to pick and choose what note they wanted to end on. I really don’t feel too negative about season 6 as a whole so I’m probably not the best person to critique it. I really liked it. Lol.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
I realize I was unclear. When I say it felt rushed to me, it felt rushed only because it always felt like there was at least one scene missing where they built the connection with Gabrielle.
In my brain, in the previous five seasons, there was barely a single person who got into a conversation with Gabrielle who didn’t end up with some minor crush on her (some more than others), but in s6, it just felt like you’re supposed to accept that it happened off screen and that was it.
As far as the people that Xena had fall for her — I didn’t say they were all bad. I meant the ones that fell for her immediately tended to not be the best folks, but the nicer guys (of which there were plenty, including iolus, Hercules, and that guy either the blue dress and kids) all took the moment to have an actual conversation with her and fall for her.
In the xena verse, people fell for X&G by getting to know the true them, even if the conversation was one scene, it was one scene that left a mark. The people who fell for them super quickly were generally not good guys.
Attraction/crush (like Howar) is absolutely not the same thing as the level of lust or love I am talking about. X&G were absolutely gorgeous, and humans have eyes.
With Xena specifically, the guys who thought she was beautiful had a crush and I get that. The guys that lusted after her and made it obvious after the initial meeting were generally bad guys who wanted to own/ possess her. The guys who fell for her were all mostly good guys and got to know her. Of course, I’m not talking about Borias or Ares, although both were decent guys in their own way too.
I know I haven’t been clear about it because it’s hard for me to explain.
Maybe I feel like s6 would have benefitted from at least one shortened commercial break per episode with a scene that made the human connection stronger. There was this element of “assume there were connections made off screen and now we can watch a monster lumber across the woods for five minutes!!”
The style they gave us would have been better spent with slightly more substance and less punching for a lot of the stories. It was perfect for the episodes with like the not-hoarde cannibals. The guy with Virgil was ~chef’s kiss~. That whole episode was beautifully done.
With the Norse episodes, there were 3 episodes there, and the story and the details were perfect. If they cut just three seconds from every scene with the valkyries riding, they would have had enough for another scene in the beginning where Beowulf and Brunhilde come in and make there be more of a connection there at all.
As far as Livia/Eve — I think that the characterization was perfectly Xena + Callisto + Eli. The actress did a very good job with what she had, but in that case, Livia was too 1 dimensional. Both Xena and Callisto were a multifaceted array of dark and crazy. Livia felt… bland in comparison. She came across as basically a bored bitch and that’s it. She had anger, but there was no passion inside of her. Both Xena and Callisto had such a deep passion that it was brilliant. That tiny bit was missing for me to really care about Livia.
That’s the bit that kills me. I am an absolute sucker for the villain. Always have been. I don’t have to understand your motivations, you don’t even have to have motivations — you just have to believe in whatever it is, and I’ll root for you even if I don’t want to. Livia lacked that.
Then as Eve, she had all of the belief in the world, she just simply forgot to bring along her personality. In my opinion, the hero needs a personality. All hero’s believe in something, that’s what they’re fighting for, make me like you because you’re spunky or silly or something. What they wrote for us is basically someone who only had any personality when she was fighting. Even in the Amazon camp, it was when she was fighting she had any personality. As soon as she was back to Eve, we got the 1d version again.
In her case, it was more the writing that did her a disservice. In the episode where Xena took out Olympus was brilliant. In that episode, Eve had those moments of being an excited child over the scrolls, she was absolutely beautifully stubborn after being stabbed by Gabrielle (it took her like 412 hours to even start to appear weak from the wound because she just didn’t wanna pass out yet), she has a couple of decent zingy lines. I’m not sure if that makes sense.
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Basically, I think Eve/Livia would have been an amazing character if we got a little more character in the scenes we got. The actress did a beautiful job with what they gave her, but they didn’t give her much. It was sort of like “so Xena had a baby and it’s 25 years later. We can’t quite dump her on the side of the road yet… uh… how do we just shoehorn this character into this plot?”
One day, she’s Livia and she can basically pull every Xena and Callisto move on the planet with ease, and the next episode, she’s wearing rags and she acts like she doesn’t have the muscle strength to walk 25 steps.
With both Callisto and Xena the switch was gradual and well written. With Livia it just happened the same way someone flips a light switch and the lights turn on or off.
One episode, she’s slaughtering everyone on sight because they might know someone from a neighboring town who spoke once to a follower of Eli, the next episode, she’s fully practicing what he preached and seemed to understand more about her new responsibilities than the audience (who was there for her conception) knew.
It was an odd choice.
But for me, that’s why it didn’t really bother me that they never really mentioned Joxer again. If enough time had passed that Livia was fully Eve and knew herself that well, Joxer had been dead that long too. It felt like overnight, but I always got the impression it was a few months.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
Also just to add, there were so many men instantly in love with Xena at first sight, that I was honestly thrilled to see it happen with a woman for Gabrielle. 😂 So I enjoyed that part. Plus the Norse episodes have a love story myth quality to them. They’re definitely stand alones but the Beowulf stuff was fun to me.
Agent8699@reddit
I think Joxer had potential to be a great character, but all of his character development seemed to be one step forward, two steps back.
They still had him lying to Virgil and his other kids as an old man - trying to take credit for Xena’s heroics. And then he goes and gets himself killed still trying to be a warrior and still trying to win Gabrielle’s love. After everything?! And despite his seemingly happy life with Meg, their kids and their Xena themed tavern?!
MeggiePool-pah@reddit
One step forward, two steps back is how people step sometimes. I think that's part of Joxer's ~~limitless~~ appeal.
Agent8699@reddit
I politely disagree. The biggest example for me would be The Convert where Joxer supposedly took another person’s life for the first time and was genuinely and seemingly irrevocably shocked by it.
Then it was just forgotten about. Joxer could have become a travelling minstrel / musician, chef, healer, salesman, whatever and kept running into Xena and Gabrielle on their journeys.
He could have shown some genuine and permanent character growth.
The second biggest issue for me is his treatment of women. He seemed to genuinely care for Meg, but then we have episodes where he spies on naked, teenage girls and masturbates in the bushes?! And his storyline with Gabrielle needed to be resolved a lot earlier than it was (but even that was undone eventually).
The third biggest issue would be that he seemed more comfortable with his triplet who was an assassin than with his triplet who was a (coded) gay man. That seemed extreme even for Joxer.
Joxer had some good moments, but the lows were very low for me and he didn’t seem to learn from them.
freyalorelei@reddit
You nailed it. Joxer's main problem was that he wasn't allowed to grow as a character. The Convert could have been his big moment of self-realization where he matured and moved on from wanting to be a warrior, and instead he just...didn't. Yeah, he married Meg, and they seemed to somehow do an okay job raising Virgil, but it definitely had the vibe of "settling" for her, which...holy shit dude, he married GALAXIES out of his league and still pined for Gabrielle?? No shade to Gabs, but goddamn.
And again, he had no personal development, or at least any that made sense. Once Xena and Gabrielle "died," he just went, welp, guess I'm a farmer now. Which...a FARMER?? You'd think that, between his years of musical training and Meg's...customer service experience, they could have opened a nice little dinner theater together.
Or a fisherman! Gabrielle literally told him he could make a living fishing. That would have been a nice little callback. Instead they shoved him into a nonsensical occupation and turned him and Meg into a stereotypical "Take my wife...please!" bickering couple. For a show that was surprisingly respectful of Meg's past as a sex worker (by '90s standards, at least), it was disappointingly regressive.
Agent8699@reddit
In ever so slight fairness to Joxer, his main “occupation” seemed to be running his Xena tavern, not farming.
That typed, having your wife to work in a tavern partly dedicated to the object of your obsession (ie Gabrielle) and filled with many of her belongings was … a choice.
WhiteTrashNative@reddit
He was about to confess to his son when Xena stopped him, which was very kind on her part. She realized he just wanted to be a hero in his son’s eyes and didn’t wanna ruin that for him in his later years especially.
Agent8699@reddit
Xena was always very forgiving of Joxer’s flaws - he was like a little brother to her (albeit a very annoying one, but alive rather than dead which is still a bonus for Xena).
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I think that a lot of them wasn’t the best direction for Joxer at the end. It didn’t feel organic to how much he evolved imo. I do think it fit for him to want to be brave at the end because even in the beginning he put himself up front in the danger without anywhere near the skills that Xena and Gabrielle had. Also didn’t like how his death went down. It was kind of lackluster and felt more shock value. I do think during the show, he had grown a lot before the time jump, personally.
Scr4ppyDoo@reddit
He grew on me, it was sad when he died (both times).
IGrewItToMyWaist@reddit
Not a fan
CinnabunPancakes@reddit
Joxer is so creepy
SnooSuggestions9830@reddit
Hmm to be honest I never really liked his character. I suppose he grew on me a bit but more due to familiarity as he became more of a regular cast member.
I just don't think his character was needed - or maybe not needed to appear that frequently.
Him being Sam Raimis brother too and servicing little purpose to the story seems more like he was included through that connection.
HC1701@reddit
I've always liked Joxer.
And his little song, too.
theseedbeader@reddit
I love that they managed to write in at least three versions of that song.
MeggiePool-pah@reddit
I love that he has an ever-evolving song!
BryBryceratops@reddit
I think Joxer is interesting, and much like we all are in real life, pretty complicated…. He starts as this wannabe bad guy….later we learn he comes from a family of warlords and was always in the shadow of his top-tier master assassin brother, Jet. He comes off as a coward…but as someone else commented, he stood up to CALLISTO in order to protect Xena’s horse, Argo, because he knew how much Argo meant to her. He stands in Xena’s way to protect Gabrielle after the Solan/Hope catastrophe. He leans into his reputation as a bumbling dork…but because he had earned Xena’s respect…she trusted him to play the part and retrieve the Hind’s Blood Dagger…. He was Xena and Gabrielle’s best friend. If he’s good enough for them, he’s good enough for me 🤷🏻♂️
On the other hand…. He is sort of cringey and homophobic concerning his other brother, Jace…. He married a Xena-lookalike, and raised a son to essentially be a man-Gabrielle (poet, warrior, etc)…its sort of a toxic level of hero-worship but again: he loved them and they loved him.
Joxer is cool in my book.
BryBryceratops@reddit
Also, I’ll be a son of a Bacchae but gosh! An episode pre-time skip featuring Xena/Diana/Meg/Leah AND Joxer/Jet/Jace would’ve been awesome. Shoot, let’s throw in the 3 Naked Dancing Gabrielle’s and we got a stew going baby!
Tortfeased@reddit
Finally, the reboot we all deserve
theseedbeader@reddit
Just take them home, throw them in a pot, add some broth, a potato…
jayveedees@reddit
Joxer the mighty,nuff said
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
I always loved him.
In first watch, I found him annoying in the best way possible. Joxer, for better or worse, was the brother neither one of them wanted. He was a bumbling moron, but he just wanted to fit in with his family — then, he found Xena and Gabrielle and they created their own family of sorts and he was content to be a bumbling moron because he was loved just the way he was. And he loved them just as much. Yes, there was the whole crush on Gabrielle, and the marrying the Xena look alike, but it all made sense to me even then.
Someone else mentioned hero worship being a part of it, and perhaps that is true; but I saw it more as they were his family. He didn’t understand loving someone platonically until he realized that was all it would ever be, and the Xena look alike was a way for him to settle down with his family despite them wandering all over the world without him.
Despite his bumbling, creaky foolishness, he was not a cold warrior, but in his deepest heart, he WAS both a hero and a warrior. No matter what he was presented with, and how absolutely terrifying it was (whether Calisto or a really angry and grieving Xena), he didn’t hesitate to protect who he could of his tribe, and he was always willing to die if it meant he could save them — even Argo. If that was really Calisto, if she didn’t feel like playing with her prey, she would have killed him before he finished his interruption.
In the episode that kept repeating, when he died, Xena totally freaked out. Despite not having a clue what happened and trying desperately to understand and failing to, and continually bumbling into the exact situation she told him to leave alone, she couldn’t stand the idea of him being dead, unless (much like a sibling), it was her throwing the chakram at him. Plus, she knew it wouldn’t take.
Gabrielle spent a good portion of time yanking his ears and nose, and generally picking on him and teasing him by basically hinting she didn’t like him, but when he got beat up over fools gold, she wanted to rip the earth apart to get the guy that did it, and she took great care of him. If he was going to die, it would be because she tore his nose off and he couldn’t breathe, not because some jerk hurt him. Again, a total sibling vibe.
The only thing I hated about Joxer back then was how he treated Jace. It felt so homophobic to me. As an adult, I see it slightly differently. That is a part of it, but the picture is bigger. Joxer’s father was a warlord, his brother was an assassin, his mother was a warlord’s wife, and all he wanted to do was fit into the family, but he couldn’t find his stride. As an adult, I see his reaction to Jace less homophobic and more jealous of Jace. He spent (however old he was) years trying to fit into a family he wasn’t meant to fit into, and Jace was sort of like “yeah, nope. I wanna be me,” and had the strength of self to go and find it. He didn’t need the acceptance of the family, he just knew who he was. He wanted it, but he knew it wasn’t gonna happen and accepted it. Joxer couldn’t do the same for himself.
Also, it sort of felt like middle child syndrome in a way. Jett felt like the oldest, who followed in the family business and was good at it. Joxer was the child who wanted desperately to be like everyone else and not stand out, but couldn’t manage it, and Jace was the youngest who was just willing to do what he needed to do to be happy. Anyone who has ever seen this particular family dynamic at its fullest has witnessed the oldest picking on the middle child ceaselessly, and the middle child sort of turning around and doing it to the youngest because they sort of can.
Luckily, with these characters, they were able to grow past those memories and end up on good terms.
Joxer, despite his obvious flaws, deserved to be there, as much as Xena and Gabrielle. He proved himself over and over again, despite not having a clue he was even doing that — he was just doing what he felt in his bones was the right thing to do. Protect gabby from a furious Xena, get gabby away from the memory wipe (he then went complete Joxer, but even then he couldn’t go through with it, and immediately chose to protect Gabrielle, even from himself), and he was willing to take on someone as good as Xena and completely insane, over a horse.
He’s one of the best characters in the show because he truly is selfless. He is a hero naturally. He isn’t innocent of the world, nor is he a wonderful warrior (or even a somewhat passable warrior), but if he sees his family in trouble, even if they hang him on a wall by his underwear, he can’t help but forget about what is healthy for himself and try to help them.
Xena had to work to remain a hero; Gabrielle started off innocent and became a warrior through association with xena. Joxer just found the place where he could find himself and live his truth — which was a hero at heart.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
What a lovely Joxer analysis
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Thank you! I hope it addressed your question!
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
It did. I agree with your thoughts on him!
TangledUpPuppeteer@reddit
Yay! I have a friend who hates him. Then again, I think she’s Calisto level insane 😆
Melodic-Scheme6973@reddit
I love him. Didn’t like him so much when misogynistic writing took over in the later seasons, felt out of character.
Magick_mama_1220@reddit
When I was a kid he looked so old. Now that I'm old, he looks so young!
FerrisB00bler@reddit
Joxer = Duckie from Pretty in Pink to me
MeggiePool-pah@reddit
I'm team Joxer all the way, baby! I'd love to hang out with him and listen to his bat shit stories. I'd be like, "You're telling me that you finished off the whole gang? And you saved the village by yourself? I heard Xena and Gabrielle were there, too... Oh, they helped, ok." 👍
Emica12@reddit
I so wished he was frozen with Xena and Gabrielle.
I just really missed them having adventures as a trio in season 5&6.
He's my favorite comic relief on this show and I really enjoyed Ted's performances with Joxer and his brothers.
The fact that Livia kills him and he doesn't even get a funeral was angering.
Or that they still had him lying to his children about the adventures is flat wrong of the writers.
Joxer went through the development of lying about heroic exploits but it was just flat forgotten by the writers.
Joxer had his own heroic deeds he can actually brag about. (Playing the Lyre so Xena can defeat the Bacchea, getting Xena the hinds blood dagger to kill Hope, standing up to, "Callisto," to protect Argo, discovering the powder in Chin, getting Xena her Charkram just in the nick of time, taking out an army with bad stew.) The rest he can honestly say he witnessed Xena do and it was awesome.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I wish he had been frozen too. I think it would’ve been great to have had Joxer all the way until the end.
Emica12@reddit
It would have been interesting to see how the seasons would have turned out if Joxer was there with them until very end.
Even if Aries didn't freeze him there's a chance Aphrodite would have.
99% chance Aries would have left him there in my opinion but my dad who watched the show avidly argued other wise he thinks Aries would have enough respect for Joxer "dying" in battle along side Xena to put him right next to her and Gabrielle. Had the writers went that route.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
Ares was kind of tough to predict. The fact that he buried Gabrielle next to Xena in itself showed a level of compassion from him that early show Ares wouldn’t have had. During his mourning and shock period, I think it’s possible he would’ve buried Joxer with them just to be respectful of what Xena would have wanted. But I think the idea of Aphrodite bringing Joxer there would have been a really good plan too. She was a more openly compassionate.
I’m a little torn because I do think it was nice to see Joxer make it to old age and have children and a son who he was really proud of and to have found someone but like some others mentioned, there was some moments in the time jump where it felt like they didn’t let his maturity grow quite as much as it probably should have.
I didn’t hate the time jump but moments could’ve been done a lot better including his death. In hindsight, I think maybe the show would’ve been better had he had been frozen too to bring the last season back to the beginning feel. The last season was a little darker and more intense in some places so I don’t know how well Joxer would’ve fit at the same time - so I’m torn about it.
Maybe it’s just me but sometimes when I watch the last season, it just feels like Gabrielle and Xena are out of place being out of their own time. When they’re walking around with Eve and Virgil, it’s like they just don’t fit in the same way they did before the time jump with all the Greek Gods around. Season six is one of my favorite seasons and I love so many of the episodes in it, but the whole season feels kind of alternate universe. Not just with “When Fates Collide”. It’s hard to say if Joxer’s vibe would’ve fit in that season.
Emica12@reddit
I feel like Joxer's presence in season six would have given some much needed, "light hearted moments," that the season was sorely missing.
He could have traveled with Gabrielle and Xena for awhile and then go off to check on what family he has left.
Having him be there at the very end of a FIN would have been interesting.
Heck I wouldn't have minded Joxer, "accidentally," knocking over Xena's ashes in the magic spring to revive her.
I could totally see Joxer and Gabby shrugging and going, "Oops."
Lol.
But on a serious note I have to agree the time skip felt weird and Virgil didn't really fill his father's role to be honest.
I like season six but there are elements from the earlier seasons missing.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
My new head canon for the end of the series is Joxer not dying and accidentally knocking the ashes out now. 😂
Emica12@reddit
You're welcome. 😂. Our happy trio stays together. I can totally see Gabrielle telling Joxer, "Thank you." When Xena isn't looking. Lol
Entorri@reddit
He was reduced to mere comic relief when he had potential to really grow and develop as a character. I think Ted really wanted Joxer to be something more, and it’s devastating that he never got to explore that and expand him further.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
I didn’t mind him as comedic relief but I agree he could’ve became more. He should have had more going on by the last season. The time jump made a lot of things wonky and I wish more thought had been put into his character.
Pwaise_Hestia@reddit
My fave joxer moment is in Callisto when he’s tryna fight Gabrielle and she’s just like stay down I don’t wanna hurt you I’m busy blah blah but he keeps trying to attack while she kicks his ass repeatedly.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
Love all of those Joxer moments!
friendly_rock_@reddit
I can relate to his clumsiness
Pwaise_Hestia@reddit
“I’m not drunk! I just trip over things like that…”
justanothertfatman@reddit
Despite all his faults, he was a good man.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
Agreed!
theevilwomanREAL@reddit
I remember reading a whoosh article speculating that he was mentally disabled.
n7neill@reddit
When the show was airing, I hated Joxer. It was as if Joxer was another pre-Amazon Gabrielle without any of her charm.
I did a rewatch of Xena last summer and he is in a lot of episodes... That's something to think about when you have the ability to binge rather than wait for a week. Anyway, I still hate him. The fact that his debut appearance is alongside Callisto of all things 😭
The only episode I kind of like him in was his evil brother episode. And even then it was because of Jett, not Joxer.
BryBryceratops@reddit
I’m going to have to, respectfully and in the spirit of this discussion concerning characters we all love, disagree. Perhaps you could elaborate….how, in any way, is Joxer like a pre-Amazon Gabrielle?? Pre-Amazon Gabrielle could talk her way into and out of all sorts of problems and solutions. Joxer is definitely kinda nerdy but like….and again, with Kure love for another fan, no cap, and I’m so glad you have commented….. I don’t see the thought process of this comparison
n7neill@reddit
You deliberately left out the part of my sentence where I said without any of her charm. That’s literally it.
Before Gabrielle picked up her fighting abilities, she would always talk her way out of situations in a way that was not annoying—to me. Joker was not this. He was unnecessary and not my cup of tea.
Now, thank you for asking and remaining respectful of my differing views on this. At the same time, I don’t like having what I say be inaccurate which is what you did.
Overall_Sandwich_671@reddit
I would.
ashleylynnba3443@reddit
I like Joxer! He’s got some great lines & Ted Rami does a fantastic job with those goofy expressions. I didn’t mind him tagging along with Gabs and Xena at all, but in S5 when they tried to push the Gabs and Joxer ship (shakes fists at Chris Manheim) I was a little over it! It was just too much.
Also, the way he died was sad! He didn’t need to jump in and save Gabs from Livia because Xena was literally like you dumb ass, I could’ve done it and you wouldn’t be dying! But it’s also the most Joxer thing to do, and of course he would risk his life to save Gabs because he loves her. But I did think them rolling his body into a bush was shitty 😂💀 Joxer was ready to take their bodies back to Amphipolis after Ides of March
Cole_Townsend@reddit
He's so cute! 😍 I've always had a crush on him.
QueefOnAYogaBall@reddit
He doesn't have any thoughts.
Friendly-Mushroom-38@reddit
That’s n X for xtra super sexy!
IseQween@reddit
Joxer annoyed me initially. I later recognized his role as an "ordinary" guy trying to gain respect in a violent world. Other comments here made me realize I never wanted to "fix" him. Yes, he was boastful, bumbling and crude throughout. Despite what looked like numerous shortcomings, he also displayed enormous loyalty, courage and even thoughtfulness to the end. I'm shuddering as I write this, but I like him just the way he was. And I have tremendous respect for how Raimi made him so human to me.
Dionne005@reddit
He’s the best character
Weasel699@reddit
he's mighty!
WhenBlastin@reddit
He's really tidy.
Beautiful-Bee-916@reddit
I would like him more if we saw him less. I felt a lot of the episodes he was in he wasn’t necessary in the episode, or his part could have been accomplished by one of the other side characters who were more interesting like Autolycus.
That being said I don’t necessarily hate him, he’s loyal and loves Xena and Gabby and has his good moments. Gabrielle he loves too much though. Even after she turns him down and he had told her no strings attached he still moons over her. And in Kindred Spirits he’s a pervert and I can’t get over the grossness of that. I just always felt he was an annoying third wheel who didn’t realize he was a third wheel to Xena and Gabrielle’s relationship.
Stella_Noire_2008@reddit
I believe his character was great because, while Xena and Gabriel got to look cool, and we saw a few dorky moments from them. Joxer was the epitome of how the entire fanbase would be having adventures with Xena and Gabrielle. I didn't like how they ended his story, where he ends up with a Xena look alike if anything. He should've got with a Gabriel look alike because it would've made sense considering he was so hung up on her. Also, I feel like he should have been able to evolve more as a character. Especially when he traveled by himself and met other people when not with Xena and Gabrielle. Because he was a warrior in his own right, and he earned Xena's respect, and a lot of cases had their backs. I just always felt that his ending should have been better than being hung up in some kind of toxic grief chokehold over Xena and Gabriel.
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
joxer has good moments and bad moments. he is terrible when he is horny and lusting after gabby or being sexist. but he is quite awesome being a goof, being bad at being bad and being helpful, but he also has a great heart. if you fix some parts of him he could be wonderful.
invisiblebyday@reddit
Overall, always liked him. He was part of X&G's family. He had his faults, but he had the strengths of loyalty and bravery.
PirateJen78@reddit
I absolutely adore him. He's such a wholesome character who just refuses to accept he's not that great of a warrior.
I wasn't sure about him during the first episode because he just seemed so bloodthirsty, but then, as his character developed, I liked him more and more. His loyalty to Xena and Gabrielle is unmatchable and was proven during several episodes. Plus I always thought Ted Raimi was cute.
I do wish they would not have made him so in love with Gabby though because that made him seem more like some lovesick wannabe warrior just following them around. Especially since we all knew he could never win her heart.
theseedbeader@reddit
I always thought Ted was cute too! But yeah, the lovesick puppy thing did get really old. I think a lot of the people here can agree that we could’ve done without that.
I still love him, but sheesh.
GunstarHeroine@reddit
Honestly I love him. I kind of had a crush on him in the 90s which probably says all kinds of things about me
KamSolis@reddit
I used to dislike him. Then he started to grow on me in the later seasons. But after watching it again for first time in like 15 years, I am kinda crushing on him.
Dark_Celebrimbor@reddit
He is an adorable dork. It really endears him to me. Plus, he is a love-sick puppy stuck in the friend zone.
rihanahir14@reddit
Love him ❤️ And I love the fact that he found love with Meg and had a family.
PineappleFlavoredGum@reddit
Fuckin love him. I started watching Xena in like 2016 because I was just a huge fan of Raimi and liked Lucy Lawless in Ash vs Evil Dead. I love the Bruce Campbell and Ted Raimi cameos
Only-Principle5896@reddit
Joxer was mighty!!
Only-Principle5896@reddit
Joxer was mighty!
koiivy@reddit
Brave and goofy. He gives me “fun big brother” vibes.
NoifenF@reddit
He’s a ride or die true friend. A bumbling moron but one of the bravest people in the xenaverse despite that. Annie bananie was right, they’d have been fucked if not for Joxer (and not just for that one instance).
AliLivin@reddit
I loved him!!
Vast_Revenue5545@reddit
Joxer is such a lovable goofball 😆 He definitely deserved better than he got in the end. And he was a true friend to Xena and Gabrielle.
DixonDebussy@reddit
I really hate that they made him sick with puppy love for Gabrielle. Meg didn't deserve to be treated as 2nd fiddle. I also didn't like that he didn't learn his lesson after all those years. If they got rid of those two things, I would've thought he was a great character. Comedic relief who eventually finds his own stride, not the hero, but still supportive and loves his family
drgonzo1985@reddit
My favorite character.
Bryrida@reddit
Iconic but also he reminds me of really obnoxious boys from childhood and it’s slightly triggering 😅
freakitikitiki@reddit
I think I was indifferent to him in the original run, mostly. But now, rewatching, I actually kinda like him. His real zeitgeist moment, for me, was when he defended Argo against who he thought was Callisto (but was actually Xena in Callisto’s body). I like that Xena acknowledges that moment, too.
Aniekins87@reddit (OP)
That was a good moment for him!
TesstheM3ss@reddit
I disliked him in the early stages when I was a kid watching the show, I thought he was a nuisance for Xena and Gabby. However, as an adult and with the latest rewatch, I see that he just wants to help and wants the best for his friends. I really enjoyed his character arc in the later episodes 💚