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I know. It angers me.
You can't find even a Maverick for less than $27k...before "market adjustment" (getting it up the ass).
I like cheap, austere, easy to maintain and reliable.
Ford is no longer any of these.
Around here it’s the opposite.pretty much every one that’s available is an XL model with no options but dealer mark up 5-10k. Also get the occasional lariat/xlt. I saw a lariat a few days ago at the local ford dealer for literally right at 50k. Fucking insanity and I think someone actually bought it for that price because it’s not on the lot or website now. Why wouldn’t you just buy a ranger or f150 for that price.
I want one so bad because it’s supposed to be the truck I can afford but every time one comes in it either doesn’t even make it to the lot or it’s gone the day of.
I'm letting the market burn.
Mass repos, high interest rates, longest average terms...we're going to have fire sales.
May be 6 months, may be in a year, bit hold on and don't reward these stupid "market adjustment fees".
I'm seeing 6-7% interest on new car loans for tier 1 credit. Pure insanity.
Be patient, friend.
You got me curious, if you wanna pop over here to Kansas City, we have [one (1) Maverick for under $27k](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/link/357783712).
Ford had 3 speed automatic transmissions into the 90s. Apparently the last 3 speed automatic available in the US was a 2002 Toyota Corolla.
We only started getting tons of gears relatively recently. Look at how long stuff like a Ford C6 was used
The Corvette never had a 5 speed, ever. Jumped straight from the 4 (+3) to the 6 speed. I never thought about that until recently. But yeah, Automatic transmissions had 4 speeds forever. Since 1939, ending in 2022 with... you guessed it, a Chrysler.
My sister had one of those corollas. The gears were absurdly long of course. But trying to accelerate onto the highway with 4 people in the car and the AC running was absolutely glacial pace. Maybe even tectonic pace.
No...they *also* made a 5 speed for the V6...this is a 4 speed w/overdrive. Not the same as a 5 speed, though you shift into overdrive as though it is 5th gear.
It functions as a 5 speed, but it's not. It's 4+OD.
We need compact trucks to become a thing again. Bring back the Datsun 720, the Chevy S-10, the Mazda B2200, Toyota "Pickup", the VW Rabbit pickup.
Some of those trucks got 25+ miles per gallon back when they were made. Imagine what they could get now with modern engines. They could haul quite a bit in the bed, too. In fact, some of their payloads were comparable to modern mid-sized trucks.
>Some of those trucks got 25+ miles per gallon back when they were made.
Because compared to modern trucks, they're relatively lightweight (re: not as safe) and didn't make as much power. It's the same story with compact cars from the 90's. They got excellent fuel economy, but they were lightweight and didn't make as much power.
I had a 96 Nissan at one point. Every part of that powertain was bulletproof: engine, transmission, transfer case, front and rear diffs. Only problem is I live in the rust belt. Road salt is a killer! By the time I got done with it, I could lift the bed right off the frame without needing to unbolt anything.
It probably didn't help that I'd see these various back-woods ATV and snowmobile trails and wonder whether I could make it through or not... so of course I'd actually have to find out for sure. It was amazing off-road, though. I never once got it stuck.
I own a 2004 ranger. I don't get why you'd need anything bigger if you just go to work and back and make a home depot trip now and then. It's the perfect size. Not some bulking bloated monster truck.
But even the maverick is too big for me honestly. I look at my dads 2006 tacoma and my step dads 2014 and just cry. Why did they double in size? Not entirely fair as my dads is a 2 door and step dads is 4 door but I can't see 2 doors making up all the difference I see.
It’s insane how these are basically being rationed while they killed the focus, fusion and fiesta recently at these same price points. And they’re rumored to be doubling down on this strategy. They’re not BMW and the car market won’t work this way forever.
It's what people are buying. Do you throw investment money into what is currently making you tons of money, or product lines that may not pay off?
It sucks for small car lovers, but they are after all a business.
I understand that, but I believe it’s shortsighted to completely abandon the middle class market when you’re Ford and literally invented it.
I do understand that what is left of the American middle class largely buys used cars now but it’s still going to put them in a bad spot someday. Among other reasons it gives their competition too much room to breathe while Ford doesn’t have any.
It's not that they abandoned the small and midsized market, it's that *that market* is no longer a sedan or hatchback shape.
They will gladly sell you a subcompact or compact SUV for a little more than sub and compact sedans and hatches cost, but today's models have more features too.
Unless you really liked the shape or driving position, the current SUVs will suit you just fine. And if you did like those you still have options with the Mirage, Accent, Rio, etc.
Seriously. I've been interested for a while in building a shelby super snake sport f150 clone. It costs more to do than I paid for my TRX as ford's XLT trim single cab 4x2 with the 5.0 comes to $48,000. You get close to $90K really quickly for a single cab pickup...
I can remember my pops getting a 2011 4dr XL 2WD for $22k brand new off the lot. Now this was back when you could still get slow-month-quota bargains, but still it’s crazy to see how they’ve basically doubled in 13 years.
A single cab 4x4 with a coyote is all over 40k+ right now. $40k for vinyl fuckin floors. I ordered a completely loaded ‘22 Mustang GT for only ~$10k more
Hell I got my 2019 Ram 1500 Bighorn (equivalent of an XLT) that was a loaded out crew cab 4x4 with the Hemi eTorque for $38,000 brand new. Three years later I traded it in for the same price and got a used F-250 Lariat gasser at the same price point.
After inflation, that $22k (2011 dollars) is now the equivalent of $30k (2023 dollars).
Going the other way, $40k today is worth as much as $29k in 2011.
That’s how I ended up in my mustang. I was looking to move up from my Tacoma to an F150 and found my mustang was about 10k cheaper than the F150 I wanted so I paid 36k for a brand new 5.0
Used is the way to go right now honestly. Modern vehicles are incredibly reliable... it's not like years past where something with 100k miles was on its last legs. Get something with just enough miles to know it isn't factory-defective and you're *probably* safe on maintenance for a while.
That's still basically 30k though. A few other trucks are also right at the 28/29 mark...one simple option (or even just sales taxes) and you're probably over the 30 mark. The Maverick's base is 22k.
It’s inflation. And unless you go to a specific work truck dealer even the barebone F150s come with power windows, a small screen etc.
An XL basic truck in the year 2000 cost around 16500- adjusted for inflation comes out to 29100
A basic XL now cost 33700
They didn't make the ranger from 12 till 18. That's like calling a jeep wagoneer an old vehicle. When they do a clean sheet redesign, it's not really the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_%28T6%29?wprov=sfla1
The Ranger that was released in North America in 2019 had been released elsewhere in the world in 2011. The 2011 North American Ranger is not the same as the world 2011. The 2019 Ranger is sold all around the world has been in production since 2011.
Sure the 2010 isn't related. But the 2011 is and I would still say that the current Ranger is an old truck. You are just being pedantic and obtuse. I would gather the commenter that started this whole string misrememebered the year that the current Ranger entered production. 2010 vs. 2011 makes little difference to the original point being made.
It does when you consider the ranger also has an in dash version of the rear view camera on higher trims. The LCD radio+in mirror is cheaper, not just because it needed to be retrofit, which is the original post.
truck prices were crazy well before COVID
prices are high because that’s what the market will bear. thank everyone and their mother who insists on driving one to their 9-5 office job.
They were bad but you could usually get a deal on a V6 with the smaller back cab since they didn’t move as many.
Now good luck getting a truck for a good deal.
I should say at least in my area the market is cooling down tho. Dealers are finally aren’t marking up every car on the lot only the super high priced popular ones.
But 08’ showed us once gas goes up and the stock market goes down folks become real practical real quick.
Causality is flipped. Inflation you are using is a metric derived from specific products and sectors.
One of the biggest drivers of the inflation metric is vehicle prices. When you see big inflation numbers, car makers jacking up prices is a big reason for it.
You can't explain away pricing because of a metric defined by that same pricing.
It would be like saying "this house went up 50% because the house price over time metric defined by this house price went up 50%".
Not everywhere in the economy has inflation happened in a significant way or the same way.
Ford car prices have inexplicably jumped while the same isn't true broadly.
Things like the bullshit dealer markups and bullshit dealer packages that jack the prices up to the consumer. Not to mention the fact you used to actually be able to haggle down the price of a car FFS, I couldn’t get a dealer down $1,500 on a Toyota Corolla. And they knew it. “Sir 3 years ago we would’ve started 3k off MSRP in negotiation, but MSRP is the lowest we can go”
And then historic low interest rates, throw in chip shortages, supply chain issues with a global pandemic which makes cars more scarce, Not as much the actual car company.
Not to mention consumers don’t actually want a work truck these days. You can go get one from a work fleet vehicle dealer if you throw a deposit down and don’t mind waiting.
People want 4 doors, a V8, and 4X4
Then they want a show pony truck.
Why isn't there more competition for trucks? For there to be $10k profit on the table means nobody wants to eat Ford's lunch and make $8k on a similar truck.
in 2016 our v6 single cab work truck trim Silverado 1500 was $18,000 after discounts. That same trim with the 2.7 i4 is $38,000 msrp. It's not $20,000 more to manufacture.
I understand there are development costs. Amortizing those over the total production of the vehicle, they should mostly disappear on anything high volume.
The W/T models are advertisements. A person who drives one for work may decide they like something about it and purchase a higher trim model. On the other hand, if the interior is absolute trash, it can turn people off on the purchase.
Just because you don’t trust it, doesn’t mean they don’t last. The only known issue I’m aware of with the ford 2.7 is the cam phasers on earlier models. It’s been 9 model years now. If there was a major issue, you’d see plenty of posts of dead trucks… and you don’t.
That engine is wild.
I had a demo Silverado with the 2.7L. It was amazing. I had to open the hood to make sure it wasn’t the V8.
The turbo whine was the only thing that really gave it away.
The v6 was more than fine for what that truck was, farm truck and highway commuting truck. It felt quick as it wasn't held back by luxury features. It was perfect for its job.
That v6 does turn into a piece of shit around 80,000 miles due to direct injection. My wife's colorado with the same engine needed an engine out repair to fix issues as GM has no solution to carbon buildup.
The v8s will last longer. They're not stressed to get the power ratings while all of the "replacements" are high boost direct injection only options. The way I look at the choice with going NA V8 is that the long term running cost will be similar to the more fuel efficient option as costly repairs will be less frequent. So far it's held true.
These boosted engines are mice drinking Red Bull with a lit fuse hanging out of their ass...exciting, but a very brief life cycle before catastrophic failure.
I think it's because the boost is usually a 2nd through to the engine design and they're almost always direct injection only. GM's new 2.7 MIGHT solve many issues typical of mainstream turboed engines, but it doesn't produce better mileage than even the cv8 comparable. Hell, the new ZR2 gets less mileage than a Tahoe.
I've heard promises of durable, reliable domestic turbo cars since the 1980s when I was a kid.
Honda, Toyota can do it...but GM and Ford continue to fumble the ball during the big game.
I'd rather have a gutless NA 4 banger or v6 over any turbo for my daily.
So, I am a service manager at a big local HVAC company and was talking to my fleet guy about this. He said he tried finding Mavericks for the parta runners and install supervisors but can't find them for anywhere near MSRP; and for the money, he'd rather spend 5k more and get a base F150.
It's a commuter car with a bed for occasional use. For what I would use it for at work, it's perfect. I don't need more than a small bed to carry a ladder, some tools, and maybe a jug of refrigerant or tank of nitrogen. The fleet guy alrrady has a relationship with Ford since most of our service vans are Transits.
On the flipside, a half-ton diesel Ram probably in crew or quad cab configuration is way bigger, way more expensive to purchase, way more expensive to maintain, and as far as I know, has not proven itself to be reliable since early Ecodiesels were catastrophically failing before 100k miles.
To be fair with the Maverick they pre sold like 120% of their production in the 3 days orders were open. My wife ordered an XLT and got it in 6 months at MSRP (there was a mandatory dealer package but considering what it included was actually very reasonable). Anything you find on the market that wasn’t ordered is going to be snapped up pretty immediately since this truck has a lot of value to people. People are willing to spend $10k extra because it’s better than anything they can get at that price still. The base hybrid is a pickup that gets 40mpg and to get something similar you’re going to spend money.
I'm aware of what happened. [Ford expected everyone to buy the loaded trims and failed to realize how popular the base trim would be.](https://youtu.be/dKDwFhZHDwM)
How is that greed? They thought they would sell more ecoboost than they did, they didn’t realize the hybrid would be as popular as it is, the hybrid is a newer product and more constrained than their other models and they’re adjusting production and trying to figure out how to sell products they have built. They can only produce so many vehicles and when things were supply constrained it made sense to focus on the upper end of the market. As supply returns manufacturing will have capacity to spare for less profitable markets. It’s Econ 101 and the market is always a loving target. Either they’ll sell these or take a loss as the pendulum swings. If the world continues to be supply constrained the lower ends of the market will be priced out.
You actually think supplies are still constrained after 3 whole years now? Or is that just the excuse they're milking as long as possible to keep prices as high as possible?
My brother's order went in on Day 1 of the order window. Hasn't heard a peep except the confirmation message and a monthly email from his sales rep assuring him they'll let him know as soon as they know something.
It is. The highest margins come on the highest trims. An extreme example is the Lightning.
Ford was estimated to lose $20,000 on each work truck version of the lightning. They were estimated to make $30,000 on each Platinum lightning.
For ICE trucks, Ford probably breaks even on the work trucks and sees $40,000-$50,000 in profit on the highest trims.
What has changed in 4 years is the manufacturing distribution - when supply is tight the mfgs generally make primarily mid tier and high trims and skip the low profit base models.
If we apply housing logic to trucks, in order to see more affordable trucks, we need to make it MORE expensive and difficult to build trucks, so that Ford will stop focusing on low-volume, high-margin vehicles and move back down to high-volume, low margin vehicles! This couldn't possibly backfire.
There's no way they are breaking even on the work trucks, have you seen how high the floor of f150 prices has gotten? I bet they're making a solid $5-8k on even the cheapest models and considering the grave sin of wanting heated seats in your XLT will put you around $60k after basic accessories, they're robbing everyone blind.
I think part of how to make money on the work trucks is on fleet servicing. I could be wrong, but when you run high mileage aggressively on trucks, you typically need a really good support plan.
You’re probably wrong. The manufacturers aren’t the robbers here, dealers are with their markups. They’re probably making most of that excess profits. MSRP for trucks isn’t that much higher than it was 30-40 years ago adjusted for inflation. It’s the dealer fees that are the reason trucks are so expensive.
The *Lightning* work truck was sold below cost, but has since been discontinued. It was $40k for an EV truck with a battery bigger than anything else on the road (at the time).
Yeah I think it’s worth calling out GM and Ford here, they prominently positioned their EVs’ work-truck specification in the launch PR and crowed about how they were under $40k to start. Then they only opened the order books for fleet buyers, filled them up, and canceled the trim after the first model year.
I *think* fleets can still order the work truck trim, but the Lightning for consumers is purely available in mall crawler ‘oh no I scratched my bed’ spec. (You can hopefully sense my disdain for pickups used purely for suburban land yacht duty)
Ahaha yes I can tell your stance. How do you feel about the Maverick? I think it's a brilliant vehicle for suburban dads and retired blue collars but I also don't fundamentally despise trucks so I'm curious about your thoughts.
I think it’s the perfect truck for 99.9% of truck owners. The bed is big enough for light loads and you can actually reach over the side to use it. The roof can support a roof rack, the interior holds four comfortably, and the fact that Ford intends for you to download accessories from Shapeways is amazing.
As a bonus, because it’s human-scaled it doesn’t feel terrifying to bike next to, has a reasonable power train, and is actually within a normal human’s budget. All of these things contribute to it being more likely to be used ‘as intended’ than almost any other new pickup.
The thing is closer to a Subaru Outback in vibes than an F-150.
It's a truck that was designed for the things people actually use their trucks for.
Simple as that really, great product. Essentially a CUV with a bed.
With that 2.5L Theta-derived engine, I would hope people are wary of it. Those engines have a very bad reputation of oil starvation and lower-end failure.
The Santa Cruz is a great little truck. But Hyundai is letting Ford eat their lunch by not offering a hybrid version. I believe they are working on offering a hybrid version, but they really should have offered that from the start and they’ve suffered for it.
That's subjective but I think it looks fine. I also think people in the market for a maverick or santa Cruz are more open to non traditional looking trucks.
The SUV twin (Tucson) has both a mild hybrid and PHEV version. I’m shocked they didn’t launch the Santa Cruz in a PHEV trim.
It’d be catnip for the eco-sensitive outdoorsy type. Official truck of “three downhill MTBs hanging over the tailgate.”
This is a really good summary about modern trucks and I agree completely.
However, I’d like to add the performance disparity to modern cars. These trucks are just in the way!
Slow to get going if lifted with oversized tires and no final drive ratio changes. They corner poorly and stop long. Plus, difficult to handle in tight spaces.
Their oversized tires also present a hazard as they increase bearing wear and therefore the likelihood of a suspension/drive failure at speed. Most lifted trucks are nonconforming and illegal to operate on ‘public highways’ (read that as ‘on the road’ not ‘on the interstate’).
To be specific, it’s not usually the tires being oversized that cause this, it is the tire offset. Wheel bearings are typically big multi-row elements and for best longevity the weight of the vehicle is lined up with the bearing.
The further outwards you push with offset wheels and spacers, the more the weight of the vehicle applies torque to the bearing. This is what causes bearing failure (a video of probable bearing failure causing a vehicle to be launched into the air surfaced recently).
A little bit of offset (say 10mm) is usually okay, especially on lighter models. Some OEM vehicles ship in a configuration with a little bit of offset.
In addition, it is technically illegal to have a vehicles tires outside of its footprint, which is why OEM designs always include flares if they widen the track.
> However, I’d like to add the performance disparity to modern cars. These trucks are just in the way!
> Slow to get going if lifted with oversized tires and no final drive ratio changes. They corner poorly and stop long. Plus, difficult to handle in tight spaces.
Any modified vehicle is no longer performing to the standards that the OEM intended, for better or for worse. Throw larger tires on a truck and it's slower. sure. On the flip side, throw a supercharger on an otherwise stock mustang and some would argue "it's too fast to be safe for its suspension and tires"... In either case it wasn't the original design intent, so once you get into modified vehicles the blame is with the user, not the manufacturer.
I've driven plenty of trucks (full and mid size) that are plenty quick enough to get going and have little to no performance disparity to other vehicles on the road. If you're talking acceleration, there are plenty of trucks that will out accelerate a base model car. They are larger, yes, and I'm very aware of that since I live down some very narrow/windy roads and have to contend with sharing the road with them, but saying a truck doesn't perform well when it's modified says nothing about the vehicle itself, but more about the owner.
the gas powered one is pretty widely available isn't it?
are you wanting the hybrid or a certain spec?
i would also like one but i want the hybrid i think.
The problem is that ford is building way more F-150s. IMO, they’re wasting their first-mover advantage in Utes, which basically aren’t available in the US market. I wouldn’t be surprised if in 3-5 years we see some of the Stellantis utes show up for sale and then Ford will be on the back foot.
> You can hopefully sense my disdain for pickups used purely for suburban land yacht duty
I agree but it’s hard to find a proper land yacht that isn’t a truck or a premium brand.
I read that point on… Twitter yesterday and I agree, though I think that we shouldn’t be incentivizing land yachts as regular personal transportation. They cost society so much — increasing road wear and tear, inflating housing prices (because we dedicate more land to storing cars than humans), increasing dependence on oil, causing more pedestrian deaths, etc.
If people *want* a land yacht, fine. But we shouldn’t subsidize them and design our world around them.
We mandate the construction of parking lots with enough space for them in every new development. Road lanes are getting wider — from 9’ to 10-11’ to accommodate larger vehicle sizes. We exempt them from CAFE standards despite them being a majority of vehicles sold.
These are all financial and practical incentives that subsidize the costs — both convenience wise and financial — of buying one.
Instead of citing what NACTO says is permissible, go look at what is actually being built in cities. In NYC, most new DOT projects have 11’ travel lanes, many are 12’ as well. 10’ is effectively not used, despite NACTO saying it is ‘appropriate.’
The design vehicle used for geometric street designs, typically a single-unit truck, with a 30-foot long wheelbase (SU-30), should be appropriate to the predominant intended uses of the given street and should not include commercial vehicles larger than New York City’s maximum allowable length. In addition, all street designs must consider FDNY, other emergency vehicle, and sanitation vehicle access needs (e.g., for street sweeping and snow clearing). Larger design vehicles, such as tractor-trailer trucks with wheelbases varying from 40 feet (WB-40) to 62 feet (WB-62) in length, are used on bus and designated truck routes depending on the route type, context, and special route provisions.
https://www.nycstreetdesign.info/geometry/overview
Because nobody actually looks at lifecycle costs for cars, only initial purchase price. EVs are broadly comparable over the lifetime of the vehicle, because they trade higher upfront cost for lower maintenance and running costs.
Even the ICE trucks are a great value for the consumer. You can buy 3 of them for the price of a fully loaded Platinum. Ford just ain’t making money on the vase versions which doesn’t really matter since they don’t sell that many and the ones they do help create the economies of scale that make the F-150 so damn profitable.
How can you say that when vehicles like the Maverick exist and even among full size a SIERRA can be had with similar trim for thousands less. Ford is gouging for sure.
it was marketing, no more.
People talked about it, they sold enough to legally call it a production run, then cut it.
same as the Tesla $35,000 Model 3
My city’s parks dept bought several Lightning fleet trucks. I don’t know what trim level, but I hope it’s a fleet trim since my taxes are paying for it.
It’s almost guaranteed to be a fleet trim. That’s all government sales will give you.
NYC’s parks department has bought a bunch of Mustang Mach-Es. I wish they’d just import some Citroën Amis instead.
Just recently I heard from insiders working at Ford that they roughly break even on base models. They aren’t actually making 5-8K due to the higher customizability of the trucks. Maybe 3-4K. And when companies order a fleet order they generally get a discount too.
Even if those numbers are right, 3-4k on a work truck is still a monster margin. It was right before COVID that most companies were really pleased with 3-5% profit and you're saying the least profitable f150 is near 10%.
Just a guess at best. I’ve heard they break even but I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt. Especially since some options on trucks are expensive like 4WD can cost up to 5K even though the actual expense for Ford is 1.5K-2K at most
Cool, now report back on the value of your x5 after 3yrs, and being out of warranty. I'm pretty confident that your cost per mile will be significantly higher than that of a comparably priced pickup truck.
If you have a fleet account you probably aren't paying retail or you're choosing to hold onto your work trucks a little longer to wait for more favorable market conditions unless the depreciation write off balances out the extra cost.
I can tell you as a Ford worker at a truck plant your numbers are not even in the ballpark. Try 4.5k on a work truck electric or ICE and 14k to 17k on the high trim levels.
Also things don't get skipped. Not one truck rolling down the line is being built for the sake of building it. Every truck is ordered. Nothing is premade then sent for the hell of it.
You’re only factoring the parts and labor for installation. When per-truck advertising and R&D costs are added - which they should be - the numbers go even on the base ICE trucks and negative on the base Lightnings.
You can keep trying all day.
I did not factor a thing. Those are Ford's in house numbers used for many metrics. You feel free to walk into Ford HQ and tell them they are doing it wrong.
No one is telling ford they're doing something wrong, I'm telling you that you're wrong.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43399188/ford-ev-sales-to-lose-3-billion/
So goalpost moved again, noted.
Your comment I replied to was about per vehicle profit. You were way off base, now you want to discuss losses based on building facilities? Go play in traffic.
My understanding is Ford recovered the work truck losses in their fleet maintenance sector that is generally better than other brands (and probably more frequently needed)
I assume the lightning wasnt used enough as a fleet vehicle in work form to justify that.
The new generation is more expensive to produce than the one then in production, especially the hybrid version. The competition has also gotten better since 2018. I would suspect profit margin in relative (percentage) terms is probably flat.
Are they lumping in government tax incentives? That's what they do in the US.
"Buy at a $11,000 discount" . Er no, that's an incentive of $3500 from my state, and a $7500 tax rebate from the federal govt.
Just looked up the discounts from a TO Ford dealer.
First, those discounts apply to factory orders.
$8,000 in savings on a *Limited* trim level, which start at $102,000. So you’ll save $8K, but the dealer will still earn $10k minimum. At those price points, the savings are illusory.
Usually those incentives are contingent that you take bank rate financing and NOT subvented rates (you save $7,500 in the front end, but pay interest that is equivalent to your discount.
I’m just upset that Ford took away the option to but a sedan or hatchback. I get that it’s “what the market wants” but that can’t be all true. I still see plenty of brand new sedans around so there’s definitely still demand. I swear every other car on the road used to be a ford fusion.
Ford understood that half of American sedan buyers want ridiculously overpowered luxury cars they cant produce and the other half only wants a good functioning reliable sedan and therefore buys Asian cars…
In Europe the Focus and Fiesta still exist but likely will also run out since we in Europe are now in love with smaller SUVs (which again unlikely will make it to the US for the same reasons stated above) and Fords Puma and Kuga are fairly successful.
Btw. What is up with Americans and extremely potent engines…? Here in Germany any 150bhp ICE car will driver you over 200 kmh on the autobahn and any electric car now matter how any bhp will anyhow not travel fast due to the range issue… (seriously though, I doubt many model S plaids will beat a regular Golf in average speed on the autobahn…)
So why on earth are Americans buying so many people extremely high bhp electric and ice cars? Where does it even matter in the states?
I honestly couldn’t tell you why we have such high HP vehicles, but I wouldn’t really want anything else. As someone who’s interested in cars, going quickly is kind of the whole point. I’m not exactly certain what you’re asking. Different vehicles just have different engine choices and I’ve never really heard complaints about them being too powerful. If anything it’s the opposite, where some don’t think their engines are powerful enough so they modify them to go quicker.
The Fusion was a really nice sedan. Felt upscale, good powertrain options, handled well, very comfortable, quiet cabin. Even the base trim level was solid.
The Escape I drove felt so cheap in comparison - it's surprising I see as many of those around as I do.
American manufacturers competitors don’t need to use expensive UAW labor. If everyone on this site supported unions as much as they claim too this wouldnt be an issue.
But it is and people would much rather get a Kia or Hyundai for 5k cheaper than what ford can put out
Who exactly are you referring to as "American manufacturers"? Not all American brand cars are built here and not all foreign brand cars are built overseas.
The price alone isn't enough. Kias have always been cheap, but they went from [worst to first](https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2022-us-vehicle-dependability-study) in consumer rankings because of reliability. My first two cars were both Ford and were an endless source of stress and repair bills. Then I got a Korean car and the difference was night and day. I didn't need a major repair until the car was 11 years old.
It's a no brainer when the vehicle is better equipped for less money, better on fuel efficiency, has a longer warranty, is more reliable, and uses the same parts across many models to keep replacements and repair prices down.
Ford just makes shitty vehicles.
I agree that Ford makes garbage disposable vehicles but my Forte needed a new engine before it's third birthday due to manufacturing debris left in the cylinders. That is a shockingly common story for Kia and I'll always worry about their quality control because of it.
You're talking as though there aren't autoworker unions in other countries, GM Korea has regularly been in the news for years for union issues. Even my cousin's BMW 3-series was made in a unionized plant in South Africa.
Those unions in other countries don’t get paid as much as American workers. What you are advocating for here is outsourcing which doesn’t help American labor.
> I get that it’s “what the market wants” but that can’t be all true.
It's what the market wants that will be worth the costs. I don't know why people think it's as easy as flipping a switch to manufacture a different car model.
But then you also have this perpetuated flawed perception on here that because the enthusiasts on reddit enjoy enthusiast or niche cars, everyone must since reddit is a 1:1 sample of reality.
Yeah sure there’s the majority but how would you feel if you were left out of that group? Everyone else gets 100 different options of vehicles to buy at all times, but you have to look for months to find something that suits your needs then pray it’s in decent condition. Not everyone wants/has kids or works construction and needs a massive pickup or bus of an SUV. Practically the only reason for a person like me to buy one is so I don’t get crushed if I get into an accident.
>I’m just upset that Ford took away the option to but a sedan or hatchback. I get that it’s “what the market wants” but that can’t be all true.
I'm convinced it's manufacturers wanting to save money by producing less model variety so they just say it's true until people start believing it
Wow, I wonder what ford might be. What type of entity could we consider ford, the massive multinational company? What might drive their decisions in the market?
I guess we'll never know.
Yes ofc they are a company driven by profit, but at least they also used to care to an extent about their customers and what the customers want. To pretend that capitalistic greed isn’t running America and the rest of the world into the ground is absurd. Don’t be dense.
Would you take a job that lost you money just because it would allow you to have the moral high ground?
That's exactly what you're saying Ford should do.
I think in this case it would be making less money rather than outright losing money, but the point stands that it is antithetical to the nature of a corporation
They still do care about what their customers want to the exact same extent - what their customers want is what makes them money.
To pretend that ford or any other company has ever been driven at the higher levels by anything other than a profit motive is frankly naïve.
And not selling cars isn't running the world into the ground. It's choosing not to lose money in a low- or negative-margin segment.
I hate this whole "I have a clue how things work" mentality we have on Reddit. People on Reddit think all corporations just print money, but the reality is that the automobile industry is intensely competitive, and all the companies are fighting tooth and nail to survive. If Ford decided to drop their "for profit" mentality they would cease to exist quickly.
You’re basically contradicting yourself. Trying to put words in my mouth. It’s a rant dude. I don’t know how the innermost layers of corporations work. I’m pissed that the vehicles I love are being completely abandoned because more people want a different kind. There’s no variety anymore and nobody seems to care about the people who like things other than trucks.
What are you talking about? The Fusion doesn't exist because there are a bunch of other boring sedans and it isn't profitable for Ford to compete with them on features or price. If you want a middle class sedan you could buy an Accord/Civic, Camry/Corolla, Mazda 3/6, Integra, Jetta, Malibu, Sonata, Altima, Legacy etc.
I mean yeah….you’re not a profitable market segment for them. They don’t excel in cars. Sure they made some awesome ones and they can compete on tech/performance if they put their mind and resources towards them but that’s not ever going to be their focus any time soon. They very profitably make very good larger vehicles. And now electric. They only have so many resources and decided to not compete in a segment they break even at best. How about just take all those resources and pour it into the next phase of vehicles. That’s why they have such a jump start in the electric market. That’s why they can’t keep up with manufacturing. They absolutely made the right choice.
I’m salty I missed the period of time where manufacturers made cars that were genuinely fun. I think it’s mostly the marketing that pisses me off tying to call these SUVS “sporty” when they’re the exact opposite. Not just ford but most companies in general.
One of the things I enjoy about the car industry is just how much of a free market it is. I can go to any brand and give them my money and they’ll all take it just the same. I also don’t have anything binding to one brand or another so I can go and buy what I consider to be in my best interest regardless of past purchases.
That tends to be how for-profit companies work yes.
Or we could go back to the days of the government controlling manufacturing, that was an intersting time.
Yea my bad, let me rephrase that.
If only there was a centralized planning committee who would turn authorize how many cars get built every year and of what shape, style etc…then the cars be given to the people in exchange for slave labor…correction….collective labor then there would be no more corporate greed and we’d all live in a paradise for the workers
Wrong direction. Instead we would all [John-Galt](https://www.reddit.com/r/projectcar/) ourselves our own cars, each to his own ability.
Oh you cannot make a car? Then I will happily sell you one... as long as there are no regulations about anything regarding it. Explodes on impact? Hey caveat emptor RIP.
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Well it's the demand relative to the extra expense of more complex supply chains and manufacturing. There's not literally zero demand, but it might be low compared to the extra costs.
Kind of defeats the purpose if it's the car manufacturers themselves who created the demand in the first place.
They have been pushing trucks and SUVs for years because they don't have to meet the same emission requirements as smaller cars have to meet. North America has basically been tricked into larger and larger vehicles.
Sure they are making EVs, but their best selling vehicles, by a massive margin, are these massive, inefficient trucks and SUVs.
Or they might estimate that enough of the sedan buyers would end up buying SUVs from them anyways.
It's possible they could make sedans, and still make money after the extra cost, but would rather take the extra extra money converting Taurus buyers into Explorer buyers.
Not like they have much elsewhere to go nowadays.
That's pretty much what the dealerships were doing before they got rid of the sedan; convincing people to get an SUV instead. Even salespeople that sell sedans often try to "upgrade" a buyer to an SUV
Indeed, the synergetic amalgamation and optimization in a progressive continuum to downscale operational expenditure and escalate capital accretion unequivocally presents as an impending imperative for manufacturing magnates.
It's that coupled with CAFE regulations requiring a 55mpg average for sedans and hatchbacks that would've required Ford to completely re-engineer the drivetrains of their least profitable segment, and this regulation came right on the heels of all of Ford's sedans requiring a massive transmission recall that stained the Fiesta/Focus/Fusion names and likely would've torpedoed future sales.
The 55mpg requirement was mandated by the EPA, but it's CAFE that defines the classification of Light Truck loosely enough that pretty much any crossover technically counts as one, even if it's smaller than a mid-sized sedan.
what I meant that it's completely different methodology in measuring that mpg, and it's not what we currently use for displaying mpg for singular cars.
For sure, it's the same way cell phone manufacturers just started making bigger and bigger phones despite people saying they didn't want them
We're basically disproving supply and demand, people will buy the only available option even if it doesn't align with their ideal preferences
Also gas and emmision regulations are easier for larger cuvs and trucks. This is much more important idk why it doesn't get mentioned more, they can price better equipped and seemingly better value vehicles for "less" in the consumers eye
Straight up. Crossovers are actually my worst nightmare. They’re even uglier than SUVs and they’re still considered light trucks which makes no sense at all. They’re built on a damn car frame for god sakes how is that a truck?
CAFE looks at things like AWD/4x4, ground clearance, etc to classify what is or is not a light truck.
Crossovers are aweful. They compromise everything to be "just ok" at everything. It's a shitty road car, it's a shitty truck, it's not fuel efficient, it's not sporty. It does nothing well.
All crossovers need to be yeeted into the sun and the government needs to stop mandating what kind of tech must go into cars. Government bs is why everything is dumb when it comes to auto production.
They should leave it at an efficiency benchmark (that scales upward with production volume), and a safety benchmark. Everything else should be a free for all. I shouldn't be forced to pay for TPMS, back up cameras, lane departure sensors, etc.
Agreed. They seem utterly pointless. They roll much easier than cars too. I love driving but I like driving in the road, not off it. It seems everyone is obsessed with going off the road in their vehicle and I don’t understand it.
It isn't the going offroad that most people want, but the higher seating position. As your knees and back start to hurt a vehicle that you can step into is so much better than one you have to duck down into and fold your legs in.
They don't even go offroad well. It's part of the huge compromise to make a Crossover.
If you want to offroad, buy a proper offroader. If you want an SUV, buy a proper SUV. Picking a crossover is just being indecisive.
It could be a manufacturing thing. Limit the number of platforms and produce more models on the existing ones. Few platforms fewer retooling and opportunity costs, more cars pumped out etc.
Well those sedans are doing OK because a lot of manufacturers exited the market. Honda for example is using its sedan platform for high performance variants and other crossovers.
It’s probably good that they are focusing on trucks and mustangs that sell well in US and exiting non core markets.
SUVs don't really cost more to build than cars but can sell for more money. Competition has driven the prices of cars down near the break even point. US manufacturer's production cost is higher than foreign, partly due to the high cost of UAW labour, so they were actually losing money on cars.
heaps of them.
the smaller maverick types are selling like hotcakes because people want something less crazy than the giants trucks have become.
most people don't need a truck. you can rent one pretty easy now a days.
i need mine for work, but when i don't; i take my motorcycle.
In Europe there’s 3 types of pick up drivers. Gardeners, employees of for example construction firms with tool storage welded on the bed and morons everyone makes fun of.
Seeing how the USA don’t magically have more of the first two, that says a lot.
I will never understand why people would willingly drive these oversized, dangerous and impractical cars as daily drivers
No I actually got rid of mine because I was tired of getting the inside filthy by hauling stuff around in it. Just asking how you guys do things over there.
We have vehicles like the sprinter with various rears, including a bed for hauling stuff from construction sites etc.
And as a daily we use often use estates or hatchbacks, they are everywhere and basically do everything the advertisements in America claim you need a pick-up for, while also being fuel efficient.
Just for reference, vehicles the size of a Mercedes GLE are a rarity in Europe, most are way smaller.
So if you are buying like 4 sheets of like 1.2m by 2.4m drywall for a home project, then how would you do that? Break it down in the parking lot first?
We use a trailer, rent a van or have it delivered? Usually the first option. Alternatively we just fold the rear seat down and leave the trunk hatch open with the wall strapped down. Plenty options. No need to buy an oversized wasteful vehicle for such a rare occurrence
They aren't oversized or impractical over here because our roads are significantly wider and straighter than European on average. Not sure the implication you mean by dangerous, to the driver they are just as safe, but there's definitely the argument they create an arms race scenario of people getting bigger and bigger vehicles.
That’s a fact not an argument. Also roads, parking etc. being wider is not a good thing, it takes all the issues car infrastructure causes and increases them
yeah, im in the 2nd type. nothing welded on. im lucky my jobsite can last a while so, i just take my tools and drop them off. then take the bike most the time. i get like 60 mpg and it tons of fun. kinda dangerous though.
Everyone has their reason but I certainly don’t understand it. I think trucks are way too big, utilitarian, and useless on a daily basis to justify buying one.
If you pay attention long enough, you'll notice "what the market wants" usually translates to "what people buy after we make the shit they really wanted as unaffordable and unappealing as possible because it didn't make us enough money".
I can believe it considering most of the rolling F150 stock I've seen are mid to higher trim crew cabs and even extended cab newer F150s are relatively rare.
Modern truck buyers have been sold on the pickup truck as the new family car and their priorities increasingly skew luxury over utility. I'd bet even a modern update of the old Lincoln Blackwood would sell well these days.
I> I'd bet even a modern update of the old Lincoln Blackwood would sell well these days.
Anyone who says this has no idea why the Blackwood failed. It failed because it had a Lincoln badge on it, not because luxury trucks weren’t growing in popularity.
F150 Limited, Platinum, and King Ranch trim level interiors are Lincoln interiors. The Lincoln Black Label guys do those 3 F150 trims. Ford designers do not get to work on those.
How can they make so much money selling trucks to rednecks with tiny peckers. It’s quite remarkable. Monstrosities like the f150 barely even exist outside of the US
People around here just don’t want to admit that the average full size pick up is just a better vehicle than most for a daily driver.
Low end torque and good power is a lot of fun.
They ride incredibly soft, and complete with luxury sedans for comfort.
Enough room for whatever you need.
Honestly they have pretty decent handling too for what they are. Not everyone lives in the hills and where I’m from 99.9% of the roads are straight. We have literally 3 curved roads and 2 of them are only a mile long. I gained zero benefit moving to a sporty car because I only really feel it turning corners are intersections lol
> the average full size pick up is just a better vehicle than most for a daily driver
I don’t think this is correct. They are “good enough”, but not “better”, along a bunch of vectors.
Power delivery, ride quality, fuel economy, parking, consumables, and more are all better in a car.
The truck is better at hauling stuff, going over stuff, and being tall.
But being good enough at the car stuff is fine for most people. And cars typically can’t do the truck stuff at all.
Well then you’re wrong. A car with a decent engine is just better at this than a truck. A car weighs less, therefore needs less power to do the same thing, and overcomes wind resistance more easily.
For example: a Mazda 3 Turbo executes power delivery better than any of these normal trucks. It feels fast all the time, it has a shitload of torque from nothing. It can put all of the torque down all the time.
Just because the typical economy car is focused on economy and has an anemic engine doesn’t mean cars aren’t good at this if they have the appropriate powertrain. Just like anemic work truck trims are often slow and shitty to drive.
Most of the trucks that this article addresses are V6 Turbos. Which are faster than the V8 models, producing more torque earlier and more power overall.
You may prefer the feel of V8s, but that’s a you thing. Most F-series pickups don’t ship with one.
They have good low end torque? Last truck I had was a Ford Sport Trac from 2007 and don’t feel that was the case. Note - I’m not saying you’re wrong just that I might have to read a truck.
>aren't bothered by bad streets
Unironically they probably help cause those bad streets, because road wear increases exponentially with vehicle weight
>One of the other main reasons Americans have trucks is that we hate vans. I have a theory that vans just took too much cultural heat. There were the infamous serial killer "rape vans" that are still perpetuated by Hollywood and now True Crime podcasts/shows, jokes like Farley's "live in a van down by the river" are everywhere, and multiple generations see them as the ultimate "uncool dad" vehicle. It is what it is... vans are only recently becoming more acceptable to own, its a generational cycle thing.
Which is a shame, because vans are honestly more useful in 80% of use cases. I worked in construction and renovations during the summers of 2010 and 2011 and my boss had a 2005 Ford Econoline. That thing was better than any pickup for a construction job. It had a locking, covered area for tools and materials, it could haul 6,500 lbs, and it was cheap to buy and maintain. People have been duped by marketing types into owning a *less* practical vehicle because “muh child rapists”.
One point of contrast between your comment and the one above is that you're talking about using a van for a trade where protecting equipment in the field is an important requirement vs. a DIY person who's mostly hauling stuff to/from the house and doesn't need the security of an enclosed lockable van. I have family that run a roofing business and most of their vehicles are vans, but I can see a DIY person choosing a pickup because an external bed might be advantageous for some tasks, no need to lock up tools away from the house, and with a quad cab they do non-work duty better.
Hmm that’s a good point, I guess if you’re DIYing every weekend then a pickup is a better choice than a commercial van. But if you only do it a few times a year it might be better to rent a truck for those one-off jobs.
>the size isn't as much of an issue as reddit makes it to be
Gonna disagree with you on that one, at least from the perspective of anyone behind or in front of one.
Or waiting for one to park. Especially because half of them never learned to reverse park, and the vehicles are so long that they have to make like 50 back-and-forth adjustments to try to get them in forwards.
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1) Focus all your marketing on creating consumer demand for high margin SUVs and Trucks
2) Stop selling non-trucks and SUVs
3) Point out that nobody really buys cars anymore
4) $$Profit$$
Ford sells a million F150 annual.
Even Toyota sells 2x as many Trucks and SUVs cars. 2.2 million cars last year, 1.6 million were trucks / SUVs. The RAV4 alone was 400,000 units.
Reread the headline. You're fooling yourself if you believe truck sales are so rampant because everyone just wants one.
Also read up on the CAFE ratings and how they work, and it'll start making it even more obvious.
Then explain the Maverick popularity. If "people only want big trucks".
Hint, they don't. People DO want smaller vehicles, but smaller vehicles are harder to find because manufacturers don't want people buying them because they don't make as much profit.
But not you though! You're smart. You've figured out the game! The shyster's dumb trucks for dumb people don't work on you. You're just too savvy and confident.
But not everyone else! They're all big stupid dummies. Powerless to resist marketing. They're all idiots! All of them! Stupid idiots who don't know what they even like. They can't be trusted to buy a dinner plate without succumbing to the Big Dinner Plate marketing, let alone a car.
Thank God we have people like you around. People who are just too goddamn witty and intelligent and brave to be mindless zombies like everyone else!
You're so smart! 💫 🤩🤩🤩💫
So I'm guessing those advertising techniques don't work on you though. I'm sure you're a true independent thinker and everything you have in your life is simply because it's something you want.
Do you not see the level of arrogance it takes to tell someone you know jack shit about that the only reason they want something is because they're told to want it.
It’s literally true though. Car companies started this effort in the 00’s to boost truck and SUV sales as they are more profitable. Almost everyone drove cars before that.
As a European I always wonder what it is you guys are doing/buying to warrant such massive vehicles, we get by absolutely fine without. Like I only ever see one around here maybe every couple weeks to a month.
You'd think with the sheer lack of walkability, public transport and long distances to cover, fuel economy and reliability would be everyone's main concern.
North Americans generally have outdoor hobbies that require more capable vehicles. We generally drive much further distances and trucks are significantly more comfortable than any car worth less than 100k.
Parking spaces are large and easily available. Fuel is cheap and a full size truck doesn’t get much worse fuel economy that a crossover.
The midsize trucks you guys get in Europe are absolute garbage in terms of comfort and fuel economy compared to the full sizers we have available.
Typically Americans WANT to have outdoor hobbies and want you to thing they are rugged and outdoorsy, so they buy a truck.
Meanwhile I'm over here fishing, skiing, hiking, camping, and kayaking with a bicycle.
Why are cyclists always so fucking insufferable. Are you really going to suggest a fucking bike camper…. There’s no point debating someone so detached from reality
The small Ford Maverick was so popular Ford can't build enough of them. That should tell you that most people DON'T need giant full size trucks. But that's what the manufacturers push on us, and they actively limit availability of anything smaller or cheaper...
[In 2021 alone, Ford spent nearly 2 Billion on marketing.](https://www.statista.com/statistics/261535/ford-motors-advertising-spending-in-the-us/) A company like that isn't going to spend that much money unless it makes a lot more money.
The Big 3 have been telling their customers what they should want for a very long time.
Whatever truck things I want.
Haul firewood, cars, campers, boats, mulch/dirt/lumber/rock, equipment. Rip entire dead trees out of the ground. Drive through deep snow on unplowed roads. Pull stuck vehicles/equipment out of snow/mud. Drive through mud and water on sketchy two-tracks for entertainment. Comfortably fly down dirt roads at 55+mph.
Some other notable accomplishments:
-Dragging a full roll away dumpster (~8 tons) across a parking lot because the dumbfuck driver blocked the loading docks with it.
-Pulling a loaded semi-truck up an icy hill in winter.
-Pulling out a forklift that got stuck between the loading dock and the truck because the driver didn't apply the parking brake or use chocks
-Pulling a couple of kitted out Jeeps up a steep sandy/muddy hill they got stuck on.
Not knowing what to do with a truck is caused by lack of imagination. You can do anything with it, except fit in a city parking ramp.
The use case for a 3 ton vehicle as big or bigger than the original HMMMV for daily use doesn't fit the vast majority of buyers that drive them. There are people that need and use them. But most don't. I'm quite sure it wasn't chance when what the buyers supposedly want matched perfectly with the highest margin product..
Jokes on them. I don't need one year round and I have a long commute. I just pay to have big items delivered or rent a truck when needed.
Costs me less than owning a truck.
More like "we make the most money on trucks so we're not gonna make anything else, and then people are forced to buy trucks and we can constantly say that's all people want.....because it's all we make".
I think people underestimate the power of marketing. I'm quite sure that if it was more profitable, we'd be buying plug-in hybrid sedans and wagons. But there's so much more profit in trucks and SUVs.
The automakers have pulled off an incredible trick on the US, convincing people it’s normal and not insane at all for people to buy gigantic pickup trucks as daily-driver family vehicles, just in case they might want to move a refrigerator or a boat 1-2x a year.
People don't buy trucks anywhere else. Vans are popular in other countries for work trucks but not trucks.
It's hard to find parking for a truck in certain cities, Chicago is one of them and most places in Europe are like Chicago in that there's barely any space.
My guess for the last 10% is probably US oversea territories, or where a lot of US citizens work overseas like in military bases. I was in Japan, and saw one near a military base. It looks so comical with all the Japanese kei cars nearby
Even before options, the 911 is extremely profitable. Its something like 20% margin on a base model (ie if porsche sells to the dealer at $100k, porsche built it for $80k) and margins on all options are at least 50%. My expert call with a porsche exec was prepandemic but he indicated a typical 911 order will have around $50k in additional options.
A 911 costs not much more than a Cayman/Boxster to make, but it sells for twice as much. Many analysts say that a typical 911 has like 40%+ profit margin.
Porsche claims with all their options that there's never more than 2 identical cars.
And yeah the options are crazy.
It's literally a page I stole from their book when I did home renovations for others. The basic bathroom is $20k but if you want anything more than that ... It's 100% markup.
Worked great. Won the lowest bid and then customer always wants tons of upgrading after the contract is signed.
that seems like one wouldn't want to be in such a position where your company puts basically everything into one basket.
that seems like such a short term thinking
The F *Series* is, but not the F-150 specifically. [In the retail space, the Silverado is the best selling vehicle in America.](https://www.edmunds.com/most-popular-cars/)
This is what people were saying 5-6 years ago when Ford and GM started discontinuing sedans, but it's been shown to be a very wise move thus far. There was (and is) very little business case for so many ICE powered sedan options.
F150s are brilliant and I bet they make Ford a lot of money but it’s only certain trims and this article’s $10k figure is an estimate with no source
Not sure financial estimates from “Ponderwall.com” is even remotely credible😂
i just hope that the American public isn't stuck with the bill when the next recession hits and we have to bail out Ford because they gambled on a single model made for the N. American market.
Don’t think this is just the F-150 they most likely mean the entire F-series lineup. I think the super duty actually nets them the most profits over a f-150.
Remember when Ford made a $14,000 Fiesta? That was just 4 years ago.. Not saying it was an amazing car, but it fit a need and these F150's help fund those cheap cars..
Hopefully, the F150 will help fund cheap/affordable EV's when their Gen2 platform comes to production in a couple of years.
That was back when Ford still only focused on making trucks, but had other companies under it's umbrella do most of the work for it's non-trucks (Mazda/Volvo for cars, Aston/Jaguar for luxury). But then they got rid of their other brands because they wanted to expand into China and China's partnerships limits meant the partnerships the other brands had also counted against Ford.
And now Ford doesn't give a fuck about affordable vehicles. They teased us with the Maverick then decided not to make enough base models and basically told everyone who wants one to get fucked.
Fit a great need for a lot of people under 25. Not pretty but the car was a workhorse that got the job done. Kind of crime against humanity tier that they discontinued it so kids can now take out ridiculous loans for 25k+ vehicles that they don't need.
I believe it. Ford dealer buy my house is almost wall to wall F-150’s of every trim it outnumbers everything else on the lot like 2-1. You want a Maverick, Bronco, Mach-E, Mustang usually your SOL.
There’s a Ford/Lincoln and Chevy dealer across from each other in my city. Looking at the lot, F150s take up 60% ish of their lot, used lot included, and Silverado’s, Tahoes, and suburbans take up 70% of the lot at the Chevy. Haven’t seen a single new sedan sit on either of their lots since before 2017, unless they hid them in the back
These profit margins should not be legal, or at the very least there should be a publicly run competitor so they can not just rob us blindly bc no alternatives exist.
Trucks and SUVs are overall nothing but profit for D3.. I'd suspect it's even higher than that.. Back in the day nobody but contractors or farmers bought trucks and they cost a couple grand... Now everyone poser wants a truck to feel like a boss and will never utilize their 5 foot bed... I think 75% of trucks are short bed? I could be making that up but I thought it was above 50%
I don’t doubt it. Look at what a base 4 door f150 cost with 4x4. What’s that base cost. $45k? Ford still has some margin in that. Go build a loaded lariat. What’s that run. 75k. Mechanically those trucks are very similar. Use the same body panels. Seats are likely even the same. Just one is covered with leather. Ford added some nice touches inside but not $30k worth. Margins on the midrange ford trucks are huge.
I love how some people were downvoting me when I said that Ford is not that huge of a car maker and that they are heavily dependent on a handful of hit models which mostly only sell in North America.
I knew it was bad, but I didn't realize it was this bad to where 90% of their profits come from just a single model.
Other car makers have "cash cows" too, but they use the profits from those vehicles to diversify their lineup to at least some degree. Ford doubles and then triples and then quadruples down on one segment of the market which is absolutely braindead from a business perspective.
This discussion is somewhat useless without knowing the other manufacturers profit structure. We already knew the F150 was Ford's most popular product for decades.
I would point out that [Ford was the laughing stock of the car industry just 15 years ago.](https://i.imgur.com/0hJXRxL.png) Not sure what they did to turn their company around, but I guess it was [the way forward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_Forward)?
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