UK nurses - are you supposed to wear gloves when taking bloods?

[-]

Mouse_Nightshirt@reddit

So, consultant anaesthetist here who cannulates multiple people on a daily basis (and does occasional bloods) and I'm going to be quite direct and harsh here. I'm a bit flabbergasted at some of the replies here suggesting people don't wear gloves when taking bloods. You are supposed to wear gloves when there's a potential for exposure to bodily fluids. It might be for your protection, but there's more chance of cross contamination despite hand hygiene if you don't. Gloves _are_ overused, but this is one of the situations it is necessary. Not using an alcohol or alcohol/chlorhexidine wipe for bloods is incredibly bad practice and puts patients at risk of thrombophlebitis amongst other things. And for those saying "if you wear gloves, you can't feel a vein" - that is utter nonsense. You just need to get better at it. A lot of slack, lazy, bad practice being promoted in this thread.

Reply

[-]

bacon_cake@reddit

>A lot of slack, lazy, bad practice being promoted in this thread. Is opinion as divided on here as you experience in real life? There are nurses, phlebotomists, anaesthetists, GPs and paramedics, all in this thread saying different things. I'm quite surprised.

Reply

[-]

Mouse_Nightshirt@reddit

I think you'll find that mostly those in hospitals will wear gloves and use wipes because that's the standard and there are enough people around to call you out if you don't. In a GP practice or back of an ambulance, there isn't going to be anyone standing over your shoulder so bad practice won't get called out.

Reply

[-]

Crumblebeast@reddit

Cannulation =/= venepuncture though in terms of the risk to the HCP and risk of pheblitis though. Also, you're probably cannulating max 6 people a day, a busy nurse will be maybe taking bloods from 10x that.

Reply

[-]

Mouse_Nightshirt@reddit

It is a breach of the vessel wall and introduction of a foreign body into the vein. There is no difference in risk to staff or patient between cannulation and venepuncture. As we've already established, gloves are for the proceduralist. There are enough skin commensals that not prepping the skin puts people at risk. The number is essentially irrelvant to the risk. In any case, I've certainly put in more cannulas than 6 in a day and I've worked in units with no phlebotomy support so could end up bleeding 60-80 patients in one day.

Reply

[-]

tyger2020@reddit

I am gonna agree with you u/Mouse_Nightshirt Oncology nurse here, so I regularly cannulate + venepuncture. Gloves worn for both, always. Only time we do not wear gloves is palpating the vein, but we wash our hands first and then chloraprep the site.

Reply

[-]

peterbparker86@reddit

Totally agree. Gloves are meant to be used when there is a risk of blood/bodily fluid exposure. The NHS gloves off campaign specifically says gloves for this exact scenario. An IPC Matron so you probably hate me haha but I agree with you

Reply

[-]

HirsuteHacker@reddit

Then why have the staff never used gloves in the ~decade or so I've been giving blood? How are you palpating the vein properly with gloves on?

Reply

[-]

peterbparker86@reddit

They either don't know or choose not to wear them. Gloves are risk a assessment. We can't force staff to wear them but the whole point of vinyl single use gloves are to protect against blood and bodily fluid exposure. Standard venepuncture guidance advocates for gloves in this situation

Reply

[-]

BeesToes@reddit

B6 and I thought I'd got it wrong for the past 13 years reading this thread... So glad to have come across this comment!

Reply

[-]

EconomyFreakDust@reddit

Do you wear an apron?

Reply

[-]

Mouse_Nightshirt@reddit

I frequently have a reusable sterile gown on. And otherwise am wearing freshly laundered scrubs. Either way, a disposable apron is not required in the latest guidance. I'm wearing clothes.

Reply

[-]

raccoonsaff@reddit

As far as I know, we're generally taught to because it's bodily fluid contact, but it can depend on the trust.

Reply

[-]

continentaldreams@reddit

Gloves are for the protection of the practitioner, not the patient. Dentists are putting their hands into a open mouth of bacteria, where blood straying is quite common. Nurses taking blood are using sterile tools, and gloves aren't really necessary for blood draws, unless they want to.

Reply

[-]

j4rj4r@reddit

Exactly - Gloves have become excessively overused in healthcare for no other reason than 'optics' . Gloves aren't generally sterile and are not a substitute for hand washing. There is no good reason to wear gloves for external examinations and procedures, however their unnecessary use has become widespread over recent years. I would have failed my medical school exams if I wore gloves for a breast examination for example, however I recently heard that some newly qualified doctors think that it's obscene not to.

Reply

[-]

continentaldreams@reddit

Same thing with food prep. It's much cleaner to wash your hands and then handle food, rather than wear gloves under the guise of 'cleanliness'. Gloves are more likely to have bacteria than just nicely washed bare hands!

Reply

[-]

tinytinycommander@reddit

It's always weird seeing cooking videos where people put disposable gloves on to handle chicken. Just wash your hands.

Reply

[-]

kcajjones86@reddit

This is to protect yourself from the massive prevalence of salmonella that's in/on the chicken. Gloves on, hand chicken, wash hands and then all is well and you the chance of infection is lower.

Reply

[-]

HirsuteHacker@reddit

Salmonella is barely a risk from chicken in the UK, it's campylobacter that is your main issue. Just washing your hands after touching raw chicken is more than enough to eliminate risk. You don't need gloves.

Reply

[-]

kcajjones86@reddit

Yes, agreed, however using a pair of gloves and then washing your hands is better. I work in healthcare and this is standard practice for handling anyone/anything that could be possibly contageous or infectious.

Reply

[-]

dbxp@reddit

Might be that they don't want to get any grease on the camera equipment or set between takes or that black gloves contrast well with chicken whilst it's a similar colour to a white person's hands

Reply

[-]

SirLoinThatSaysNi@reddit

I think there are two things going on there. Americans seem obsessed by gloves in food prep, they get quite vocal in the comments if someone in a commercial setting isn't wearing gloves. The other reason could be some foods are messy to wash off so taking the gloves off quickly gets the messy gunk off your hands and you can just do a quick rinse.

Reply

[-]

Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit

There's also sensory factors (people not wanting to handle raw meat often say it's slimy). I will sometimes wear gloves to cut onions or similar because it takes multiple washes to get those smells out!

Reply

[-]

BrubbiesTeam@reddit

>Americans seem obsessed by gloves in food prep, they get quite vocal in the comments if someone in a commercial setting isn't wearing gloves. I've noticed that Americans can be *really* aggressive in Youtube comments when they see something that doesn't conform to their cultural or social norms.

Reply

[-]

dopamiend86@reddit

Working in a nursing home in my teens to wear gloves when dressing, washing etc residents to help protect myself against false sexual account accusations, so it might be drilled into medical staff from horror stories they hear to always wear gloves

Reply

[-]

saswir@reddit

It's interesting. I started med school pre covid when we all wore smart clothes and wearing gloves to examine a patient was really weird. I finished med school through the first wave of COVID and all of a sudden everyone wore scrubs and used PPE for anything at all. It's a weird feeling for me because now as you say, I feel it's normal to palpate an abdomen with gloves on, even though I can remember a time when it would have been seen as strange. In my relatively short medical career I've been on both sides, and although I can appraise that gloves aren't really necessary for most examinations, I find myself reaching for a pair whenever I need to examine someone... It's not a conscious choice but it somehow just feels wrong not to use gloves now

Reply

[-]

j4rj4r@reddit

Also, use of an alcohol wipe for simple blood taking is no longer recommended unless there's visible dirt

Reply

[-]

Amplidyne@reddit

Or vaccinations in a medical environment apparently.

Reply

[-]

Conde_de_Almaviva@reddit

Can you cite a source? I'm aware that the evidence for and against alcohol cleansing is spurious but am unaware of anyone actively advocating against it's use.

Reply

[-]

cyanplum@reddit

My doctor didn’t even put on gloves when I handed her my urine sample

Reply

[-]

Giddyup_1998@reddit

Why would she? Unless, of course, you pissed into her cupped hands.

Reply

[-]

Penetration-CumBlast@reddit

I'm not touching smelly patients without gloves.

Reply

[-]

j4rj4r@reddit

That appears to be the general attitude these days. Was never the case 20 years ago.

Reply

[-]

octobod@reddit

I'd guess gloves will reduce dexterity/touch just a bit making a draw just a bit more difficult/painful. In library'sthey have stopped wearing cotton gloves to handle old documents, figuring that they documents have survived hundreds of years of finger grease and may snag and (micro) rip on the gloves.

Reply

[-]

jawide626@reddit

Some do, most don't. Anyone who can wear gloves and find a vein and get the blood first time should be tried for witchcraft, it's incredibly difficult to do and is a wonderful talent to have. Most nurses (and us non-nurses who take blood) don't wear gloves because you feel for veins rather than look for them and having your fingers free of gloves increases the ability to feel a vein tenfold. Of course hand washing and santising using alcohol gel is mandatory between every procedure so there's no risk of any infection etc that way. In dentistry i think because you're dealing with people's mouths which harbour so much more bacteria than anywhere else on the body that's why they/you wear gloves.

Reply

[-]

sparklescc@reddit

I can't take blood just by feeling the vein. I need to see it. But also if I can't see the vein I can't get the blood... Apparently there are two kinds of nurses 😂

Reply

[-]

ProfessorYaffle1@reddit

Interestingly, when you donate blood they feel for the vein first, then do the thorough alohol wipe clean and are not allowed to touch you again to feel for the vein, so you have to sit really still and hope they can get it first go by eye / memory. I asked about it and apparently it's both to reduce the risk to the donor of any infection. Having bloods tken at the GP I noticed they did touch but the last time I went they didn't use a wipe first , when I had bloods done at the hospital they did, so I guess it isn't a universal thing either way. I can't recall either way about gloves in either situation.

Reply

[-]

EconomyFreakDust@reddit

Technically it's the exact same with taking bloods in hospital/gp. We're supposed to feel for the vessel, clean, then not touch the area again and get blood. The reality is that you feel the area again because it's very helpful.

Reply

[-]

Necessary_Sweet_1668@reddit

You shouldn’t really touch someone after wiping with an alcohol wipe or it’s a little pointless to wipe in the first place. I take a *lot* of bloods and can usually find a vein, wipe and take the blood without re-palpating. However if someone has difficult veins I absolutely will feel again, as someone above said the equipment I’m using is sterile so I’m not worried about the risk of infection. Never use gloves though, unless I have a student and have to show them how to do it “the right way” 😆

Reply

[-]

BppnfvbanyOnxre@reddit

I had to skip one blood donation because they missed the vein in both arms and are only allowed one go in an arm. Only time it ever happened and it was twice on the same time.

Reply

[-]

Nicki3000@reddit

The last couple of times I have had blood taken (2 different nurses), they have touched the door handle/ typed on their keyboard/ touched other objects, then pressed my arm to find a vein and stuck the needle straight in. Really pissed me off. I would have thought making sure the area is clean would be a priority, but clearly some become complacent.

Reply

[-]

mereway1@reddit

When the needle penetrates the skin any “germs” are wiped and left on the surface! Alcohol wipes are a pain.

Reply

[-]

jawide626@reddit

Making sure the area is clean visibly is a priority, you don't need to 'sterilise' it though as the risk of infection is very low. The needle will (should) have been sterile, the puncture wound is microscopic and brief and your immune system should be able to deal with anything that gets through otherwise. It doesn't sound a good process they followed from the outside but them touching the site isn't a contamination issue and their hands will be away from the needle as it goes in to not cause any issues either. I think if i'd have been the one doing that i'd have used alcohol gel on my hands prior to feeling for a vein just to make sure but there's no hard and fast rule about the process one needs to follow.

Reply

[-]

HirsuteHacker@reddit

I have given blood 28 times and haven't seen them wear gloves ever. They should be cleaning their hands and your arm before the draw, that's honestly better than if they wore gloves, which are harder to sterilise

Reply

[-]

Queenoftheunicorns93@reddit

I take bloods for 12 hours a day 4x a week. I always wear gloves and plastic apron, I use the alcohol wipes, and very rarely miss a vein. Hand washing in between patients, clean the tray and chair down with patient safety wipes. Anyone who says they can’t feel a vein with gloves on needs to get better at it IMO. That said, I flagged the pharmacist who gave me my flu jab for not using an alcohol wipe. She couldn’t give me a satisfactory reasoning as to why she didn’t.

Reply

[-]

Wise-Taste-7520@reddit

That’s a hella lot of gloves and aprons you’re getting through - doctor here, and there’s really no need for gloves and apron unless there’s a concern re BBV transmission (ie high risk patient such as IVDU or known BBV) Really struggling to see what the apron is for too. Why on earth are you cleaning the chair? Do you wipe the bus seat down after getting off the bus?

Reply

[-]

Queenoftheunicorns93@reddit

Local policy in my department. It’s also mostly aimed at RN and CSW, rather than the medical team. The plastic use is a bone of contention. The chair is the specific chair in the phlebotomy cubicles “in case there’s blood dropped on it” which I’d argue should be more than a green clinell wipe anyway. Gloves I’d absolutely still use every time, aprons not so much.

Reply

[-]

Queenoftheunicorns93@reddit

Apparently the apron is “to prevent accidental splashes of bodily fluids onto uniform”…. BS.

Reply

[-]

EconomyFreakDust@reddit

When we take blood we technically need to wear gloves and an apron, but you'll find that next to nobody wears an apron, and lots don't wear gloves.

Reply

[-]

thereisalwaysrescue@reddit

I learned without back in 2006. You might want to look at the RCN campaign about not wearing gloves and unnecessary glove use.

Reply

[-]

mereway1@reddit

When I became a paramedic in the late 1980s I never used gloves, I became known for being able to find veins that seemed impossible, an A&E doctor asked me to set up a drip on a guy who had a wasting disease. I found a vein in his thumb… I was so lucky at times!

Reply

[-]

AdrenalineAnxiety@reddit

Not a nurse but have an autoimmune blood disorder and have regular bloods taken. They do not wear gloves and usually do not use an alcohol wipe anymore. The gloves I honestly haven't seen used much in the last 10-15 years, I think alcohol wipes disappeared more recently in my local GP, but still pre-covid times.

Reply

[-]

sofiaonomateopia@reddit

I used to not wear gloves so I could feel the vein! I’d wash my hands thoroughly before and after

Reply

[-]

peterbparker86@reddit

Gloves should absolutely be worn for taking blood. The main reason you should wear gloves is for this very risk.

Reply

[-]

CaptainTrip@reddit

You've reminded me about how interesting I found it when, at the start of covid, there was actually a lot of information being sent out to *discourage* gloves, because they were worried it would mean people wearing gloves the whole day never washing their hands and spreading pathogens everywhere they went, versus just allowing your hands to get dirty but then sanitising them between every location/interaction. It makes total sense when you think about it, it's just interesting how we have a bias that wearing gloves automatically is more hygienic.

Reply

[-]

odious_odes@reddit

HCA in a GP and I agree with the other answers here. The standard I was trained to in 2021, and that has been the case at both my workplaces, is that you must sanitise hands between patients; gloves are not necessary unless you have a cut on your hands; cleaning the site is not necessary unless it is visibly dirty. I choose to wear gloves because I often have small cuts on my hands and also very occasionally the patient's blood would otherwise get under my fingernails, which is annoying to clean out. Other HCAs and nurses at my workplace are a mix of wearing gloves and not wearing them. Some places have a policy of always wearing gloves, or (perhaps more often) staff without up-to-date training believe it is policy/best practice when it isn't. But I think mostly it's up to the staff member on the day.

Reply

[-]

SickPuppy01@reddit

I noticed they stopped using the wipes the last time I had blood taken. When I asked them about it, they stopped because some people have alcohol allergy issues.

Reply

[-]

pyotia@reddit

We don't use them because there's no indication that clinically it makes a difference, apparently

Reply

[-]

ConsidereItHuge@reddit

If there doing alternate things in the surgery then clearly there's no way you're supposed to do it.

Reply

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Reply

Reply to Post

60 Comments