The First Production auto to hit 200+mph: The Pontiac Tojan. [Suck it, Ferrari. lol] Photos in comments.

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EnvChem89@reddit

Which ones could actually do this ? I read about a turbo version making 800hp that wasn't really sold. Then some other 205HP version which were the ones actually sold.

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Agloe_Dreams@reddit

Read the article lol. The author owns the very one car with the motor.

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I read the C&D article. This one's a ton of text to finally realize this was a one off car that could do this. So not even homolagation numbers. So I don't think it's really a production car. Ferrari actually made a production car more than 1 guy could buy. Unless I skimmed that article to fast and the 1700hp one was the 1 of 1?

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shartymcqueef@reddit

Yea that’s what skimming gets you. Any of the 135 people that purchased these could have gotten it with the 800hp motor. Only one buyer chose that option but it was available to all.

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the_lamou@reddit

I just finished reading every single available source on this car, and the Haggerty article is the only one that claims that the 800HP motor was available on any cars other than the prototype. Everything else says that the only options actually for sale were the ones with massively turned-down boost. And given that the 1980's were the period of irrational excess and exuberance in America, it feels incredibly unlikely that Pontiac offered an 800 HP custom Firebird and only one person in the entire United States took them up on it. Like, on a conceptual level, that sentence bends all my credulity to the point of breaking. I can't even conceive of a situation where the words "80's", "800 HP Firebird", and "couldn't find buyers" can exist truthfully in one sentence.

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an_actual_lawyer@reddit

soooooo....not production

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FuzzelFox@reddit

As much a production car as the Ford GT90 was which is to say it could have been but nope.

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BriarsandBrambles@reddit

If Porsche doesn't sell enough GT3RS Weissach packs do they have to give up the Nurburgring record?

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pm-me-racecars@reddit

It depends on who's making the homologation rules. To get on Wikipedias list for fastest production car, they need to build at least 25. To get in Guinness, manufacturers need to build at least 30.

I believe that Nascar went off number sold when they had their homologation rules. Group B went off cars produced, and so Lancia was able to use their now-famous cheat with two parking lots to get through that.

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phalanxs@reddit

Also to make it on a serious fastest production car list, you should do your runs properly. For the Guiness book, the car does two runs in opposite directions and the record is the average of the two. The runs must also be independentely verified. A "totally unofficial" run that "allegedly took place on a very long, very straight road in Nebraska" doesn't cut it.

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dingusduglas@reddit

I thought the same on the first read, but it actually mentions that 1 customer got a supercharged version. Only the prototype was ever built with turbos.

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Vulva_Sandblaster@reddit

Slight correction. Zero buyers chose the 800hp supercharged model. The one in the article is the prototype that supposedly hit 200mph.

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dingusduglas@reddit

The article mentions that it was a production option, but no one chose it. 1 customer did get a supercharged version, but not the 200 MPH turbo setup.

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Deep-Ad2155@reddit

No ones cross shopping a Ferrari or a Pontiac lol

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Own_Hat2959@reddit

I would rather have the best of both worlds: https://www.gm.com/heritage/collection/pontiac/1971-pontiac-pegasus-concept

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42LSx@reddit

It's the inbred kid of an Trans Am and an E-Type, that poor thing.

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Eklypised@reddit

200 mph..wonder what that feels like

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Plethorian@reddit (OP)

I know what 180 feels like, and it's fucking terrifying.

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Tento66@reddit

They need to make a Pontiac Earl to go with it.

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V10Lada@reddit

You know what this made me realize?

The whole reason I loved red Firebirds growing up is because they looked like Ferraris. It's like a front-engined Testarossa.

At least that's what five year old me thought...

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Heathers_Gambit@reddit

I believe one just sold for $20k on BaT. Such a cool look they have

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DerSpazmacher@reddit

Agreed

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Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit

Whenever I see one I can't help but think that it was what the Trans Am was supposed to look like

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elswede@reddit

I mean I like the 3rd Gen fbodies a lot, but I think the tojan would have been a huge improvement over the 91-92 facelift

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cwatson214@reddit

Look up pics of the Pontiac Banshee concept car. I always wished the 3rd gens looked more like it

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BigCountry76@reddit

Cool car, but a modified car that happens to be sold through a Pontiac dealer hardly qualifies as a production car.

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RiftHunter4@reddit

If RUF can be allowed to make the list, then it's fair game.

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BigCountry76@reddit

RUF has a unique VIN and is a unique manufacturer even if it buys chassis from Porsche.

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RiftHunter4@reddit

Historically, Most RUF's are tuned Porsche's that they gave a new VIN and maybe slapped a custom body on. Heck, they still use Porsche parts and styling even though they make their chassis and body.

I am strongly of the opinion that RUF only uses their own VIN's because being called a Porsche-Tuner doesn't sound very exclusive. If they were really trying to be unique, they wouldn't look like tuned Porsche's.

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lowstrife@reddit

I mean by this logic, it isn't even a Porsche or a RUF. The cars are glorified legos, just assembling components all of which come from subcontractors and suppliers. Because then it's actually a Continental\Brembo\Bosch\ZF\Hella 911 Turbo.

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puskunk@reddit

Having worked in automotive manufacturing, that's pretty much all cars nowadays.

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candylandmine@reddit

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Capri280@reddit

Early UK-market alpinas were built in the UK since " in the days before Alpina achieved full manufacturer status, type-approval compilations prevented cars being imported from Germany whole. Sytner therefore had to build – or rather convert – the cars itself"

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/buchloe-britain-how-sytner-became-uks-alpina-experts

That might have been a factor for RUF as well in the early days. Now RUFs just happen to look like 964s

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whosthatcarguy@reddit

This couldn’t be further from the truth. When a car has a RUF VIN, the engine, transmission, interior, body and paint are all done in house. Additional parts like wheels are entirely RUF engineered but built by 3rd party manufacturers. For cars built on the carbon monocoque the chassis is entirely theirs as well. Even the cars built on a Porsche body-in-white have a heavily modified chassis.

The CRT Anniversary and SCR share almost no parts with Porsche. You’d find more Porsche parts on an Audi or Lamborghini actually.

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James_Vowles@reddit

It's explained in that article you linked that the reason they have a RUF VIN is because they started getting sent unfinished bodies from Porsche, so they never had a Porsche VIN would be my guess.

Also they do everything these days, from building their own cars to modifying the chassis of existing cars to simple tunes and body kits.

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Plethorian@reddit (OP)

IDK, they produced a bunch of them. I think it qualifies as production. Certainly many supercars have production that limited.

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BigCountry76@reddit

It's not the volume, it's that the VIN 99% sure still just says it's a trans am, it's a modified car. It's no different than a Roush Mustang or Roush F150. The VINs are still going to show as a Ford Mustang or F150.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

And the one sold at 200 hp, the 200mph was a one-off

same as the callaway sledgehammer

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pm-me-racecars@reddit

But the American SUPRA has 69420hp and dusts lambos at the drag strip

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Eddie_shoes@reddit

They made 1 other one besides the first one with the option for the 800hp engine. That’s not a production car.

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RangeRoverHSE@reddit

It doesn't even have a Wikipedia article, and is mentioned by name on only two pages: the list of vehicles with hidden headlamps, and the main page for Pontiac where the Tojan's link just redirects you to the third-gen Firebird's page, which itself makes no mention of the Tojan.

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Plethorian@reddit (OP)

http://imgur.com/a/M5UVm