Alex On Autos has dropped a full review on the Toyota Crown Signia

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hehechibby@reddit

Embargo supposedly is June 6th so hopefully Alex didn't make the mistakenly set the wrong month on the video broadcast lol

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I'll be honest... if any YTer was to mess up the release date of an embargo, Alex would not even be on the list of those I think would screw it up. Of course... he has "staff". If he sees this and has a "position" in the future, hit me up! :)

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a_r_t_e_m@reddit

He did screw it up and the video is now removed

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fhs@reddit

He meant his staff screwed up

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a_r_t_e_m@reddit

Embargo has been lifted by the video never reposted… now we know what happens to people that screw up their embargo 🥲

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PNF2187@reddit

I think this is the second or third time Alex has broken an embargo at this point. I remember he leaked the Civic hatchback on Instagram a few weeks before the official reveal date.

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tugtugtugtug4@reddit

Wonder what the punishment is from the OEM for this kind of stuff. Its an honest mistake probably, but if you don't punish a media outlet for this, it says to everyone else they can "accidentally" leak an embargoed video when they are having a slow month.

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dcux@reddit

I could see this seriously crippling his channel, depending on how serious this is to Toyota and other manufacturers. If companies don't feel safe giving him early access, he's essentially screwed on getting those videos out before everyone else.

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tugtugtugtug4@reddit

Well this isn't the first time he's done it, so at least its possible to avoid blacklisting from it. I wouldn't be surprised though if he's on thin ice now and/or doesn't get invites for the highest interest launches for awhile.

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AnonUserAccount@reddit

It’s private now, so it was a mistake.

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FakeMBadge@reddit

First the 4Runner and now this

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sabertoot@reddit

Definitely what happened

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generalright@reddit

It’s basically a Venza with styling updates and a worse battery for ~8k more

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

According to the video, the older battery type is cheaper and lighter, but less efficient. Though he thinks the worse efficiency doesn't matter when most alternatives aren't hybrids to begin with.

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generalright@reddit

The thing is, my Venza has a lithium ion battery, it’s crazy efficient, I get 60mpg on my morning commutes. It has acoustic windows and heated ventilated seats, now I’m seeing top trip Toyotas coming out with the same thing, but I got my Venza for 32k. I feel like it was the last of the old Toyota. We’re in a new generation of Toyota now.

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Ornery-Patience9787@reddit

Got my Venza for about the same. Such a great deal. Smooth and awesome on gas. Not a hauler.

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ratty1le@reddit

The Venza is extremely underrated.

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AnonUserAccount@reddit

And it has 4 way lumbar, which the Crown doesn’t have.

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longgamma@reddit

Oh yes. Toyotas have become very expensive. They have incredible pricing power.

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DoveFood@reddit

Looking for a car for a family member and it’s pretty wild how on certain popular Toyota cars how much you have to spend to simply get heated seats. They live in an area where heated seats desired, but on the RAV4 hybrid you have to go 5 trims up to get heated seats as a standard thing (LE, SE, XLE, XLE premium all don’t have them standard). Now, a few of those trims it can come with a weather package, but at least in the bigger metro I’ve been looking at, they rarely come with that option. So now, people are paying 8k more when the only feature they want are heated seats. I love Toyota because I just enjoy dependable cars, but cmon, that’s wild that in 2024 it’s 5 trims up to get heated front seats standard.

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generalright@reddit

Yep, I love Toyota too, but they are charging luxury car prices now, it’s crazy

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EnaBoC@reddit

I wish I could find more literature on the THS 4th gen vs 5th gen hybrid systems besides the 2-liner Toyota news release. It's so unclear to me whether the generational jump is a big deal or not. They make it sound revolutionary (esp. the full conversion from NiMH to Li-ion) in the Prius and new Camry. Then they go and sell a brand new model (Crown and Crown Signia) still running the older 4th gen THS. I realize the new Camry and Crown are vastly different cars but my buddy is cross-shopping the two and keeps asking me whether the Camry is a better buy (cost aside) simply because it's on the newest 5th gen system. And I have no answer for him.

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Hunt3rj2@reddit

Li-ion is better and is the main difference in the two generations. Personally I don't really think it matters enough to not buy the car but if it's a dealbreaker the Camry is fine too.

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EnaBoC@reddit

I think the motors too. For example in the Prius and the UX, the rear motor is going from 7hp to 40hp. Which is definitely gonna be a difference you can feel when the car only has like 181hp or something.

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METTEWBA2BA@reddit

I doubt it. Ni-MH batteries are more expensive and heavier per unit energy than Li-ion batteries. So unless the packaging of the lithium-ion battery somehow adds so much weight that it makes the pack weigh more than a Ni-MH pack, then the ni-mh is worse in every way except for durability. But that durability aspect is where ni-mh batteries really shine, and that’s why they’ve been used for so long in hybrid cars as opposed to li-ions which are just starting to overtake ni-mh in hybrid vehicles.

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theloop82@reddit

Ni-mh is works really well for non plug in hybrids that operate like Toyotas system. Their happy place is between 50-80% SOC and that’s where Toyota keeps em all the time. It’s way understressed and one of the reasons you see 12 year old Prius taxis driving around. Even if a few modules go flat they are cheap, easy to swap and readily available.

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doug_Or@reddit

I believe the packaging does add to the size, cost and weight, li-ion batteries, particularly the cooling. Since it doesn't all scale with battery size the biggest penalty would be with a non-plugin hybrid.

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007meow@reddit

The Venza nameplate is cursed in the US. 2 iterations, both quickly dropped. Acura’s ZDX is next.

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bLu_18@reddit

Sadly, NA didn't have the Harrier nameplate, which is thriving internationally. I hated that Toyota NA rebadged the Harrier to the Venza, a debunked car model.

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PreacherSquat@reddit

harrier is too good of a name to not use in america. a google search shows an airforce jet whereas a venza isn't associated with anything and the name even sounds clunky to say out loud.

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SadLanguage9097@reddit

As I understand it, "Venza" roughly translates into 'toilet" in Japanese--that didn't help. We just got back from 15 days in Japan and we didn't see a single Estate. Lots of Harriers and other cool small SUVs and even cops were driving Crowns, but not a single Estate/Signia

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One_Opening_8000@reddit

What I find interesting about the first iteration of the Venza is that I bought a 2013 Venza in 2014 for $18K. The used prices around here 10 years later are not much less than that (with 10x more miles). It's odd that a Camry station wagon didn't do better, but they've certainly held their value.

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DocPhilMcGraw@reddit

Except it’s not just a Venza with styling updates and I’m not sure why this is upvoted so much. The Venza was 187 in long, 73 inches wide, and 66 inches tall. It also had less cargo space than a RAV4 at 55 cubic feet versus almost 70 cubic feet for the RAV4. The only interior dimension it beat the RAV4 on was front seat headroom at 38.6 inches. It was smaller *in every other dimension* on the interior. This Crown Signia is 194.1 in long, 74 in wide, and 63.8 in tall which means it has more wagon-like dimensions. It has a much larger cargo area.

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A_Roomba_Ate_My_Feet@reddit

> Except it’s not just a Venza with styling updates and I’m not sure why this is upvoted so much. Thank you. Feel like I'm taking crazy pills with some of the other reactions in here.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

People just see it occupying same space and overreact. All of the Landcruiser talk is the same. "Oh no my 250 series isn't direct replacement for 200 series why smaller why different but it's branded same crisis"

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doug_Or@reddit

Venza was a barely tarted up RAV4. This is a Crown wagon. Bigger, quieter, nicer. Just as the Crown replaced the Avalon despite being a fairly different vehicle, the Signia is pretty materially different from the Venza, despite ostensibly being it's replacement

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Darkfire757@reddit

Between the NX, RX, Rav4 and Highlander, how does the Venza even differentiate itself?

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doug_Or@reddit

It was a RAV4 with nicer finishes and slightly less space. It was much cheaper than the Lexus offerings with none of the NVA improvements they enjoyed.

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generalright@reddit

Do you mean NVH? Because it did have NVH improvements over the RAV4

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finalpolish808@reddit

The RAV4 is pretty plasticky, and the NS is significantly more expensive, so there was a decent place in between, for a super high volume segment.

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JacksterTO@reddit

The Venza was supposed to be a sportier and more stylish version than the other Toyota SUV's.

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tugtugtugtug4@reddit

It was supposed to be a tweener for someone that wanted some additional luxury, but didn't want Lexus prices. The problem is, since it was introduced Lexus has added some cheaper entry-level models (NX/UX) and Toyota's mainline SUV/CUVs have improved their quality. I think the Venza is just squeezed out which is why they are launching this as a new nameplate and going heavy on the "Wagon" marketing even though its essentially the same ground clearance and shape as the Rav4.

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PNF2187@reddit

It's not exactly the same proportions. The Crown Signia is more than a foot longer than the RAV4 (much closer in length with the exact same wheelbase as the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Highlander, RX, and GX) with an lower roof and lower H-point while seated. And while every other Toyota SUV/CUV has at least 8" of ground clearance, the Crown Signia makes do with 6.7"... which is the same as the previous generation Corolla sedan. It's a good bit bigger and much more expensive than the RAV4, so I don't think people are really going to cross-shop the Signia with the RAV4 as much as they did the Venza, especially with the Signia having far less price overlap compared to the Venza.

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gmzeno@reddit

The starting point for the Crown Signia is the XLE trim. The Venza XLE is 39k so it's really around a 4k increase which is a lot but this is a bigger vehicle overall

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burrgerwolf@reddit

This is replacing the Venza, which isn’t a huge seller. I think this is a logical upgrade in many ways.

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Drzhivago138@reddit

Reminds me more of the old Venza than the new.

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JapTastic2@reddit

In my universe we call vehicles like this "sedans". For some crazy reason your universe calls it "lifted" because it has .1 inches more ground clearance than a Camry. It's a sedan. And it's lower than every sedan from the 80s and 90s. But say that it's lifted I guess. Whatever. Wtf.

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reno911bacon@reddit

This is too long for a 2 row.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

> This is too long for a 2 row. I think it's supposed to be more Outback wagon like than SUV. Volvo V70, A6 All Round like. 3rd rows rare for wagons

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nissanfan64@reddit

To me i 100% preferred as it sits versus making it a 3 row. I’d take the 2 row and more storage room all day long. The cargo area looks phenomenal. Just like the CX70 vs CX90. I’d take the 70 over the 90 without hesitation.

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nissanfan64@reddit

Looks absolutely perfect. My only gripe Is I’d prefer a cheaper version with a straight up gas engine option. I don’t hate the Toyota hybrid system but it undeniably raises the costs and I’m the type to enjoy simple and cheaper.

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

I need them to shrink it a bit, lower it, and put a G16E in it.

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nissanfan64@reddit

I mean at that point I’d just say buy the GR Corolla and lift it a bit. Bam, tiny Signia. I’d fully support that endeavor too. If they could offer a version of the Signia in $30-$40k range without the hybrid system (maybe that new turbo 4 from the Tacoma) it would be pretty neat. I’m not against hybrids but in a cost and simplicity argument I wouldn’t mind a standard turbo engine.

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SirLoremIpsum@reddit

> I mean at that point I’d just say buy the GR Corolla and lift it a bit. Bam, tiny Signia. I’d fully support that endeavor too. They have the Corolla Touring Sports that I want the GR power train in.

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blkmgk533@reddit

Can't wait for our local dealerships to have maybe one of these on the floor and mark it up.

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LeonMust@reddit

Pictures of the Crown look all cartoonish with the way it's styled and having those huge wheels but I saw one in person one day and it looks a lot better in person than it does in print.

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EnaBoC@reddit

So what’s the consensus on whether it’s prudent to purchase a totally new vehicle that’s coming to market with 4th Gen THS when the Prius, Corolla, Camry, and UX(2025) all are shipping with THS 5th Gen? Is the 5th Gen jump not very significant? Why is Toyota even introducing brand new models with a last generation system?

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Avenue_Barker@reddit

I bet it's because the Signia is based on the Crown sedan which came out before any of the 5th gen cars came out. No point in upgrading the system since the Crown sedan already has things working.

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EnaBoC@reddit

Oh ya definitely! In fact i think it’s already been on market for a couple years in other markets. Still would wanna know what the quantitative spec differences are ya know?

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goaelephant@reddit

>because the supposed embargo date is June 6th What does embargo mean in this context? I only know the foreign trade definition

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

Companies make reviewers wait to release reviews using a review embargo date. It's supposed to help line up the reviews with marketing and give all the reviewers a fair shot for releasing content. It's not always used for that, though. These days some companies hold back the review releases with embargos so potential buyers don't hear about flaws before they pre-order or put down deposits. With the Crown Signia, the embargo is probably intended to get the car into people's minds just before they arrive at dealers.

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TheGayThroaway@reddit

Hahaha I saw it before it was taken down. Seems like a pretty standard vehicle. Venza looked cooler imo but was somehow smaller than a Rav4 inside.

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hugh_madson@reddit

Thanks OP watched the video this morning before it was pulled, kinda cool I feel like we got a sneak peak haha

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

I was happy to see it because the wait for this thing feels like it's been way too long for what it is. It's basically just the Crown sedan packaged as a lifted Wagon but they made us wait months and months for details.

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Inariri@reddit

was there any specific info mentioned about the higher trim level?

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

Not much. Mechanically, they don't seem to be different.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

Eesh, that means it's gonna be expensive in Canada Anyway, I'm a bit sad that this doesn't have a PHEV option. Toyota seems to be struggling with production, but other than the CX-70 and Sorento there's basically zero mid-sized SUV PHEVs on the market

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BeerorCoffee@reddit

You can get the xc60 as a phev in t-8 trim. Just very expensive.

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Avenue_Barker@reddit

My local Volvo dealers only seem to be stocking the loaded versions of the XC60 Recharge so they end up being over $100k after taxes which just seems nuts to me. It's a very nice car but at $85k all in, not $100k.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

Isn't the XC60 a compact? Regardless there's also a PHEV version of the XC90 that I just remembered, so that too

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z2x2@reddit

Xc60 is more of a midsize, similar to the Outback and Crown. No 3rd row seating option, decent cargo space and leg room. 40 is compact (CRV, Forester, RAV4, etc), 90 is “full size” (Pilot, Ascent, Highlander, etc.)

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solder_paste@reddit

The xc 40 is subcompact, the xc60 is compact, and the xc90 is a midsize (3 row) crossover suv.

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bullzFromAT@reddit

Outlander

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KapinKrunch@reddit

The efficiency when not on battery only mode is the biggest blocker of this vehicle right now.

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TrisolaranSophon@reddit

Well that and it’s hideous

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strangway@reddit

We have your woman

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Avenue_Barker@reddit

Well, it's about $1k more than the sedan so figure the same in Canada which puts it around $53-54k plus tax. That's better than I expected - about the same as a base Acura RDX when I expected it to be closer to a A-Spec RDX.

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PNF2187@reddit

This is probably going to hover around $60k + tax. Canadian Crowns omit the base XLE. The Crown is $57k + tax for 2025, and the equivalent Limited trim for the Signia is already MSRPs for $2k more than the regular Crown in the US ($45,950 MSRP vs $47,990 from Alex's video). Won't be as much as the Platinum.

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Avenue_Barker@reddit

Ah, thanks for the correction. Definitely a tougher sell at that price - it's head to head with a loaded RDX at that price. OTOH, a CR-V Hybrid is $52k so for another $8k (plus taxes) you can get into the Crown Signia. That doesn't sound unreasonable for more power, more luxury, and more refinement for the same FE. Guess we'll just have to see how well it actually drives.

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EDMfan_92@reddit

Gonna bet Toyota will have more PHEV options once their North Carolina battery plant comes online next year.

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PNF2187@reddit

Toyota's only offering the Limited trim in Canada, so the "base" price for it is going to be even higher.

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DM725@reddit

Don't know if it's the color but the rear looks cheaper than it did in the car show preview videos.

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DoveFood@reddit

I know styles of cars are very subjective, but the crown “series/line” seems to really miss the mark on the rear. I like the crowns sedan a lot, style wise, except for the rear just looks weird. Can’t quite pinpoint it, but I personally don’t like it. Same with this, as you described, looks a bit cheap. Although the presenter himself said the lighting is making the picture a bit odd.

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nirad@reddit

Are they going to sell that cool, smaller hot hatch version in the US?

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chengstark@reddit

Video is private

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ClusterFugazi@reddit

It was pulled. I watched it this morning and it's gone from my watch history.

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ClusterFugazi@reddit

Looks like he pulled the video, I watched it this morning and it's gone from my watch history. Looks like he may have mistaken broken the embargo. Toyota banning Alex On Auto ban is incoming, because auto manufacturers act like children.

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rbh232@reddit

Video is now removed. It was up for longer than I expected

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

Gotta love a good Monday morning leak.

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kramark814@reddit

Looks nice and the high fuel efficiency does give the Crown Signia a unique selling proposition over its competitors. But the pricing makes little sense considering that a Highlander in XLE trim is just a few hundred dollars more.

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DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit

For those who don't want or need a 3rd row, the Crown Signia makes sense over the Highlander, as the two are essentially the same size.

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future_luddite@reddit

How does this compare to the Toyota Cross hybrid? Bigger or just more luxurious? I’m asking for my mom who doesn’t care about performance.

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DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit

The Crown Signia is bigger and more luxurious than the Corolla Cross hybrid. The Crown Signia has an 8.3" longer wheelbase, is about 18" longer, and is 2" wider than the Corolla Cross.

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BoxMuncher16@reddit

Since it’s more expensive, it’ll of course be more luxurious and have better NVH, tech and ride comfort.

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mr__squishy@reddit

As an owner of a Honda Accord Crosstour, when the Crown was initially teased I was super excited because it seems like a car that fits all my wants and desires. Bigger than a sedan but not big enough to be a bloated suv, good ground clearance and awd for rough winter weather, hybrid drivetrain for decent gas mileage despite the size/weight. My biggest issue is with the design. Toyota messed up big time by making this car have a trunk instead of a hatchback design. The crosstour seats all fold flat, allowing me to transport large items and furniture easily. With a trunk, the Crown has the same cargo transportation ability that any other sedan has.

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Ziakel@reddit

Can your Crosstour stand 22” luggage vertically? I’m curious since I was too young for Crosstour and now looking at either a Passport or this.

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tablewithoutlegs@reddit

But this is a wagon? Seats don't go completely flat but the cargo area is probably close to the Crosstour.

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BraveFencerMusashi@reddit

Hope Toyota isn't too pissed off about it.

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

Probably just a slap on the wrist and tell them to fix it. I doubt the video will stay up hence why I grabbed some details.

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stav_and_nick@reddit

Honestly, I'm kinda shocked its still up. You'd think Toyota would be watching for stuff like this

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musicman116@reddit

I like it! This car has been on my radar for a bit. My wife and I want more space than a compact CUV, but we don’t want a three row. The pickings for larger two rows are kinda slim, and the trifecta of features, reliability, and fuel efficiency is hard for most of them to meet. I think this car splits the difference between all of those pretty nicely.

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w0nderbrad@reddit

I’d buy this if it was a PHEV. I already have a regular hybrid. We want a BEV and a PHEV for road trips.

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Avenue_Barker@reddit

Same, the CX-5/CX-50 is a bit too small for us (need to be able to seat 3 small-ish humans in the back) and I want better fuel economy with some level of luxury and the Crown Signia seems to hit the mark for me. I wouldn't mind if it was a bit shorter as I have a short garage but otherwise this seems really appealing.

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Pearl_krabs@reddit

As Alex said, it's a nicer outback or a cheaper volvo likely with better reliability than either and way better gas milage than an outback xt. After three consecutively nicer outbacks in a row, one of these is likely my wife's next car.

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DM725@reddit

Just as long as you don't live where AWD was the primary reason for the Outback. Rear axle can only put down 53 HP/89TQ.

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Pearl_krabs@reddit

Yeah, Atlanta. AWD powerslides are fun, but not necessary here. My manual (as opposed to my wife's CVT) has true mechanical 50/50 AWD with no nannies and no modes. It's lots of fun on forest service roads where scrambling and momentum are everything. Hers has lots of software and a 60/40 maximum split, and I'm way less confident abusing it.

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RealLifeHunter@reddit

Bro's gonna wake up to bad news

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DM725@reddit

Just got to the end and pricing is definitely higher than I thought it would start at. Would just buy a Mazda CX-70 Premium for that price.

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Plantherblorg@reddit

> Seems like a nice alternative for people not wanting a SUV, but still wanting practicality. The lower roof will be easier to load stuff onto. Seems nice. Sir you're describing a hatchback.

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RiftHunter4@reddit (OP)

Most hatchbacks are much smaller though.

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desf15@reddit

Bigger hatchbacks usually end up being liftbacks, like Mondeo, Insignia, Superb etc, there were plenty of them in Europe before SUVs took over. They didn't catch in US though, not sure why.

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Justgottaride@reddit

Seems odd that they have the venza when they already have the rav4. Now, they have this thing, plus the venza, plus the rav4. They all seem to overlap a lot. Am I missing something?

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

Crown is targeting mid luxury buyers, it looks Buick and Chrysler buyers. It isn’t really a reply production to compare other Toyota models.

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Drzhivago138@reddit

The 2nd gen Venza did overlap with the RAV4 size-wise, and it's being discontinued. For 2025 the lineup is RAV4-Crown Signia-Highlander-Grand Highlander, all on the GA-K platform but sized and priced differently.

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doug_Or@reddit

Yeah, Venza going away

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mgobla@reddit

It IS an SUV. Anything 64" tall is NOT a wagon. It's for people who want something nicer, more comfortable than RAv4, or just a or a more spacious 2-row, without paying Lexus prices.

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