Stupid Question
Posted by NoOnesSaint@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 27 comments
So if the goal of a suppressor is to trap gasses and let them cool, why don't they just put a vent hole closer to the chamber and divert the gas that way similar to the integral MP5s that are naturally sub sonic? Seems like there's a lot of work to make the best muzzle mounted suppressor but would it not be easier to sell a drilled barrel and a replace the barrel nut on an AR with a suppressor for example? This would also bring the length down and center of mass closer in. Would maybe make a heat shield easier to hide under the handguard.
Obvious caveat being welded or pressed in barrels. Just seems like most companies go about it wrong.
NinjaBuddha13@reddit
Bro just reverse engineered the integral suppressor.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
I literally mentioned the integral design. My question is why do more companies not do it if it's a better form factor.
NinjaBuddha13@reddit
Theres also a tradeoff dor muzzle velocity/terminal energy. If you tap gas too early, your going to drop your terminal performance. Not a big deal if youre trying to keep your ammo subsonic, but for a lot of applications supersonic is still desired.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
That would be a given. That's how the integral MP5 works. It does come down to desired outcome. If it's competition then velocity is king, if it's a 50yd backyard range then quiet without additional ammo cost may be preferable. From what I can tell most want dead silent guns if they can get them but settle for what they can reasonably get. Then you have those that dump all the money that can into them.
As a side tangent, people buy ridiculously short barrels and then add suppressors that extend to the original length or more and still don't get sub sonic or full velocity. So people will buy just about anything even if it's not ideal.
Sianmink@reddit
US Federal law made selling integrally suppressed firearms a lot more complicated than they needed to be, and the increased hassle nuked demand.
It's picking up now but will still probably always be niche
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
Interesting. Does it still count as two serial numbers then?
Sianmink@reddit
Two firearms, two serial numbers, and probably two stamps since the barrel will likely be technically shorter than 16".
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
The theory would be any barrel length, though obviously there would be more ideal lengths for the configuration.
PutridDropBear@reddit
You are missing a primary function - slowing the gas down.
Crack a beer open normally and then do it again very slowly - which way is quieter (more suppressed)? Obviously the slow hiss is quieter than the crack of popping a top open as fast as you can.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
If I'm not mistaken the pressure build and burn of powder accelerates not only bullet, but the gas as well. So by diverting a portion of the gas early, does it not do both? Bases of that being the MP5 example.
PutridDropBear@reddit
That very specific design is intended to reduce the velocity of the projectile by bleeding gas immediately after the chamber to allow standard velocity ammunition to be subsonic...not to suppress it further.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
556 does have some fairly standard grains and velocities. Aside from that I'd imagine if you wanted the best performance you'd buy the ideal ammo like regular suppressors. I don’t think that necessarily negates the benefits of a more compact design but it is still a valid concern.
It might depend on if the goal is gearing safe vs dead silent.
N2Shooter@reddit
Why would someone wanna suppress a 5.56 to subsonic when what you'll end up with is a very expensive and bulky .22LR?
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
I've always thought the same thing honestly. You do have a heavier bullet, and a 556 is a bad example for round to take advantage of the design, but it is one of the more common rifle calibers.
That brings of an interesting point if it were an AR platform, you could in theory keep the same suppressor but just swap the barrel for say a 7.62x39 all the way up to a 50ae.
N2Shooter@reddit
Not so fast.
Some calibers take different bolts. For instance, you can't shoot 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel with the same bolt as 5.56. And even if you could, you'll probably need a different buffer spring and buffer weight to get reliable operation.
This is why everyone that has ever tried to just have a bunch of uppers in different calibers ultimately end up just building out a new AR.
PutridDropBear@reddit
You are bouncing back and forth between two completely different problem sets. It's an interesting thought exercise but you can't really draw any parallels.
Roller delayed vs direct impingement, 1200fps 9mm vs 3100fps 5.56, 9mm powder charge of 5 grains vs 25 grains in 5.56, etc etc.
MP5SD was designed to facilitate the use of standard ammo already fielded.
Integrally suppressing a 5.56 AR to the is effectively nerfing the rifle to the a .22lr ... why would any military do that?
englisi_baladid@reddit
Do you think most people are shooting subsonic rifle ammo?
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
No, but from what I've heard that's largely a cost thing. if you're an average range goer then muzzle mounted for hearing safety is just fine. But if you want compact and in theory similar function, I would think integral is a better option.
It is funny to me that some people will go out of their way to buy a can for every gun but complain about ammo cost or not use subs anyway.
From what I've seen there's two groups. One has a single can to throw on any gun that day, the other buys a new can with every gun. It would greatly depend on the shooter's wallet or intentions.
englisi_baladid@reddit
When you see photos of like Delta force or Seal team six. Guys with a massive budget. Do you think they are shooting subsonic 5.56 or 7.62x51 thru their suppressed rifles?
B1893@reddit
Most companies "go about it wrong" because muzzle-mounted cans can be moved around to different hosts, and don't require permanent alterations to the host.
You used the MP5SD as an example, I'll continue with it.
It's not simply a can on a PCC or SMG, the can and the host are designed to work together as a system. You can’t really run the MP5 without the can, and you can't simply throw the can on another host, just like every other integrally suppressed design, which is why integrally suppressed guns are such a niche market.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
Lets say for this example that you're going for the best form factor and (possibly) the best performance. Does having it as a fixed solution in that case count as a drawback? Yes being able to pop them off and switch them around is nice, but what gets compromised to have that feature? If you factor in leverage hanging off your gun, would a larger integral feel that much heavier?
JustSomeGuyMedia@reddit
Because then you’d need an even shorter gas system, or a gas system that is also a suppressor, and you’d be really shortening the system too. And the more holes you drill the more gas you’re robbing from propelling the round.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
Isn't the point to have a slower moving round?
Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit
Only sometimes, and your aiming for a specific speed, you want it to be just BARELY subsonic
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
Is that not the same problem as all ammo?
Outrageous-Basis-106@reddit
Probably has to do with drawbacks like complexity and frequency of maintenance, repairs, and replacement as well as stuck to one gun. Meanwhile it maybe quieter but not by enough to make it worth it.
NoOnesSaint@reddit (OP)
Valid