Appeal to nature is a fallacy for good reasons. Disease is natural, is it wrong to wipe it out? Ra*e is natural, is it wrong to criminalise it. Sexual lust towards children is natural, is it wrong to condemn it?
A secular justification ends up being fallacious. The only coherent objection to feminism is Christianity. God has ordained a telos, a purpose, for men and women while also ingraining separate ontologies. Ultimately, what one ought do and not do is an ethical question. That means 'science' and 'evolution' will always be insufficient since those concepts are not for answering such questions. This instead boils down to religion.
It is no wonder, then, that feminists fiercely reject Christianity. They have even expended much effort in an attempt to subvert and manipulate Christianity by taking over churches and even writing their own bible translation called 'The women's Bible'.
Apart from God and Catholicism, all arguments for or against feminism boils down to preference. Even if you can show that feminism objectively leads to certain bad outcomes (stagnant wages, collapsing birth rate, 2.5 billion innocents killed via abortion since 1980) a feminist will say that that's all worth it for the priceless reward of 'equity'.
"objectively leads to bad outcomes" citing abortion as objectively bad is crazy because that is a secular argument fundamentally which is something you mentioned being fallacious. You are contradicting yourself.
You misquote me. I didn't say abortion is objectively bad from a Secular worldview. I meant that abortions are objectively happening. That is, it is not a matter of subjective opinion that abortions occur, but objective. If someone says 'feminism is icky' that's subjective. If someone says 'feminist societies have more abortions', that's an objective claim because it hinges on measurable dafa, not an unfalsifiable mind-state.
My point is that even if someone can prove objectively that abortions happen, an opponent may reply 'so what? I don't believe abortion is immoral'.
But despite that, I'm still scratching my head at what you wrote. I don't know what you mean by claiming that the assertion 'abortion is objectively bad' is a Secular argument. Can you explain that? Furthermore, I didn't say Secular moral arguments are fallacious, I said naturalistic ones are. The problem with Secular morality is that it's axiomatic.
Yes, I too think that everything nature gives me is a gift and should never question it. That's why I live under trees and don't use modern medicine. All hail appeal to nature!
First of all you're a dumbass for thinking nature is just violence. Nature is cooperation as well, and friendship, and working together for a common cause. Second of all, what the fuck.
Theres so much nature rejection going on with the everyday human that your point is just idiotic at best
And nature doesnt know shit, it just tries and sticks to what works, not necessarily what can work best, but thats a concept too beyond a mere modern neanderthal to grasp
Is the everyday human you're talking about the same disease addled, mentally ill, self destructive and depressive everyday human I see everywhere? Is that your shining example of how nature is inferior? Fucktard.
This is a bad faith interpretation of the post. We use trees to make houses and natural resources to mix together to make medicine. So what's your point? Also nature isnt supposed to specifically benefit us seeing as we're not the only ones in it.
Men have been protectors for thousands of years and woman providers. That dichotomy doesnt just stop because a few retards think that those differences build inequality on a systemic level.
If we apply anons logic my neighbor can take my shit and fuck my ass cause he's a roided muscle bro who does bjj 6 times a week but that's not how it works is it.
I don't use cars cause god gave me legs, don't wear glasses cause god gave me eyes, and I died of tuberculosis cause god gave me an immune system. I'm so chadpilled and anyone who disagrees is soypilled.
Traditionalism is when conditions resemble a particular superpower's culture for a short period of 30 or so years (1950-1980) post an apocalyptical war which rendered exceptional prosperity for a small minority.
Humans are smart and we get to choose how the world actually works. Nature doesn't get to decide what roles or rights people have. Pretty braindead to use nature as an excuse to force women to be obedient and servile.
Or perhaps you're incapable of extracting the anomaly that is women cannot exist in society the same ways the men can, and that is inherently by design. A design that men came up with. So when you're looking at an oppressed class, of course the goal when seeking liberation from oppression is to remove the differences between the classes.
Shifting the blame onto women for "wanting to be like men, which is a problem because women should just be women" is not the argument you think it is. It is still inherently misogynistic and it seems that you aren't even aware of that fact.
Ah but that's exactly OP's point. It's not. The differences are natural.
oppressed class
Only if you define oppression as how far you deviate from a man's life.
"wanting to be like men, which is a problem because women should just be women"
Very subtle strawman. Nobody said "should". Women should be allowed to do everything a man does. But a woman's societal worth shouldn't be judged by how man-like their life is.
OP is simply saying women should cherish what it means to be a woman instead of lamenting all the ways that they're different from men.
This is 100% OPs own post. Notice that there are no replies on it. Nobody cared enough about his post to respond to it on 4Chan so he posted a screenshot here and pretended he found some gem.
Men being larger has nothing to do with protecting and everything to do with competing with other males for the attention of females.
We made the whole “women nurture, men protect” a thing because of culture. You see this in agricultural civilizations all the time. The actual labor in fields doesn’t meaningfully change between sexes, and women are just as productive at weeding and tending to crops as men are.
Sounds like OP trying to justify an unhealthy mindset to me.
Legit reads like it was written by some saar who is WAY too into Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson. Dude is one instance of his wife mowing their lawn away from an honor killing. The difference between the chud and saar brains is that the chud simply knows not to shit in public.
You had me in the first 1 1/2 paragraphs ngl, but then as my mind wandered during the schizo rant, I remembered there are 8.2 billion people on this fragile blue marble.
Don't need or want them all to do the log cabins n' tradcon babies thing. Don't have space for all those lil Daniel and Danielle Boones. Don't care how good you chop logs or how hard you milk your goats - we're all gonna die if everybody does that.
I don't agree with his gender roles exactly as prescribed, but it is true that men and women play the game of life by very different sets of rules and expectations, despite what soys on the internet think. The moment you accept this reality, relationships with the opposite sex, both platonic and romantic, make way more sense and become much easier.
"Why do men get to do this"
"Why do women get that"
Worrying about this bs is draining and you aren't going to change most of it. You are honestly better off saving your mental energy for things that actually matter.
Probably coming from someone either obsessively obese or spaghetti arms and legs. The only thing he's capable of protecting is his wet dream of a government issued wife.
I like how humans are trying to invent new cyber species and some fuck tard who isn't getting laid is talking about "laws of nature" like they apply to us.
a 33 y/o ugly, 5'2 manlet, virgin incel, wrote this to power his fantasy to dominate women deemed beneath him.
i am surprised that women have not adopted feminism as their religion and radfems did not become their extremist jihadis. they still think men will ever let them gain equal rights, influence and institutional power. guess what, they will never let them gain it, other than throwing them some scraps towards them to make them feel content.
misandry is necessary tool for women to keep men in check, but i am afraid, it is not enough actually. after thousands of years under brutal totalitarian oppression under men where even today, 90% of women are just house slave bang maids, a status less than most degenerate, lowest man out there, you think they should have any grace for men?
Yes, nature and evolution, where animals and creatures are constantly in life or death situations, where it is a kill or be killed world. Truly how we should aim to live. And not in a civilized society built on a foundation of freedoms and prevention of unnecessary suffering. Which is the most unnatural thing of all.
The idea that there’s some magical division between who protects and who serves the family is hilarious.
Even if you’re lucky enough to be the sole breadwinner your wife spends most of their time protecting the kids from all the hassles and horrors of childhood. You just bring home a check and occasionally do chores.
What’s sad is he’s larping being a head of household in his head.
Could be the wrong opinion to have but what happens if the law of nature shifts because society rewards different things now. What if women were to perform better in education than men and get the higher paying jobs and on average men get the lower paying jobs. It would make more sense for the man in the household to become the primary caretaker as it is the most financially literature option, if there is a child at all.
sachman01@reddit
Appeal to nature is a fallacy for good reasons. Disease is natural, is it wrong to wipe it out? Ra*e is natural, is it wrong to criminalise it. Sexual lust towards children is natural, is it wrong to condemn it?
A secular justification ends up being fallacious. The only coherent objection to feminism is Christianity. God has ordained a telos, a purpose, for men and women while also ingraining separate ontologies. Ultimately, what one ought do and not do is an ethical question. That means 'science' and 'evolution' will always be insufficient since those concepts are not for answering such questions. This instead boils down to religion.
It is no wonder, then, that feminists fiercely reject Christianity. They have even expended much effort in an attempt to subvert and manipulate Christianity by taking over churches and even writing their own bible translation called 'The women's Bible'.
Apart from God and Catholicism, all arguments for or against feminism boils down to preference. Even if you can show that feminism objectively leads to certain bad outcomes (stagnant wages, collapsing birth rate, 2.5 billion innocents killed via abortion since 1980) a feminist will say that that's all worth it for the priceless reward of 'equity'.
x7n1nj47x@reddit
"objectively leads to bad outcomes" citing abortion as objectively bad is crazy because that is a secular argument fundamentally which is something you mentioned being fallacious. You are contradicting yourself.
Something here isn't right.
sachman01@reddit
You misquote me. I didn't say abortion is objectively bad from a Secular worldview. I meant that abortions are objectively happening. That is, it is not a matter of subjective opinion that abortions occur, but objective. If someone says 'feminism is icky' that's subjective. If someone says 'feminist societies have more abortions', that's an objective claim because it hinges on measurable dafa, not an unfalsifiable mind-state.
My point is that even if someone can prove objectively that abortions happen, an opponent may reply 'so what? I don't believe abortion is immoral'.
But despite that, I'm still scratching my head at what you wrote. I don't know what you mean by claiming that the assertion 'abortion is objectively bad' is a Secular argument. Can you explain that? Furthermore, I didn't say Secular moral arguments are fallacious, I said naturalistic ones are. The problem with Secular morality is that it's axiomatic.
spectralities@reddit
Key_Permission_3351@reddit
Yes, I too think that everything nature gives me is a gift and should never question it. That's why I live under trees and don't use modern medicine. All hail appeal to nature!
Varangus@reddit
Imagine being so regarded you don't understand the difference between rejecting your nature and living like a caveman.
peepeeinmypajts@reddit
If we're going by nature is anyone stronger than me allowed to take my shit and make me their boy bussy slave?
Varangus@reddit
First of all you're a dumbass for thinking nature is just violence. Nature is cooperation as well, and friendship, and working together for a common cause. Second of all, what the fuck.
Nawortious@reddit
Okay but violence is a part of it lmao. You can't just nitpick which parts of "nature" you want to keep.
WilfriedOnion@reddit
Bro you just proved feminism is right, nice.
HiFr0st@reddit
Theres so much nature rejection going on with the everyday human that your point is just idiotic at best
And nature doesnt know shit, it just tries and sticks to what works, not necessarily what can work best, but thats a concept too beyond a mere modern neanderthal to grasp
mischievous_shota@reddit
Neanderthals were actually quite intelligent. OP is just a dumbfuck.
Varangus@reddit
Is the everyday human you're talking about the same disease addled, mentally ill, self destructive and depressive everyday human I see everywhere? Is that your shining example of how nature is inferior? Fucktard.
wordjedi@reddit
anon sleeps indoors like a sissy
Key_Permission_3351@reddit
Imagine being unable to accept "your nature" as a cuck and crying about it on the internet. Go blame others for your shit life, knob.
BickedyBuckBumbl@reddit
This is a bad faith interpretation of the post. We use trees to make houses and natural resources to mix together to make medicine. So what's your point? Also nature isnt supposed to specifically benefit us seeing as we're not the only ones in it.
Men have been protectors for thousands of years and woman providers. That dichotomy doesnt just stop because a few retards think that those differences build inequality on a systemic level.
zrock44@reddit
Boy you really thought you were smart with this one didn't you lol
peepeeinmypajts@reddit
If we apply anons logic my neighbor can take my shit and fuck my ass cause he's a roided muscle bro who does bjj 6 times a week but that's not how it works is it.
Medium_Cranberry4096@reddit
Second exact comment you posted. Not even trying to hide it anymore are we
mischievous_shota@reddit
He's not wrong, though.
Medium_Cranberry4096@reddit
I didn't say that. It's just a very interesting analogy to use... Twice...
Limgrave@reddit
I don't use cars cause god gave me legs, don't wear glasses cause god gave me eyes, and I died of tuberculosis cause god gave me an immune system. I'm so chadpilled and anyone who disagrees is soypilled.
oregonian_stella@reddit
I dont drink feminine soy milk i drink masculine cow milk squeezed out of the masculine boobs of masculine cows
wordjedi@reddit
look to the cows moo bro
PostsShittyMemes@reddit
The first comment drove the point home enough, this was just gratuitous.
mybigtaco@reddit
dont you just hate redditors who do shitty add ons to already decent original content
ExcitableSarcasm@reddit
Traditionalism is when conditions resemble a particular superpower's culture for a short period of 30 or so years (1950-1980) post an apocalyptical war which rendered exceptional prosperity for a small minority.
Wonderful-Amount410@reddit
Amem
Live like that since last dmt
WagwanKenobi@reddit
Hold up, people actually disagree with this?
neontiger07@reddit
Humans are smart and we get to choose how the world actually works. Nature doesn't get to decide what roles or rights people have. Pretty braindead to use nature as an excuse to force women to be obedient and servile.
WagwanKenobi@reddit
Strawman. Nobody is saying this.
neontiger07@reddit
OP literally used nature as an excuse to say women's role is to serve.
WagwanKenobi@reddit
And why is that worse than "man's role is to protect"?
mischievous_shota@reddit
Women shouldn't have to serve men, and men shouldn't have to protect women just because they're men.
WagwanKenobi@reddit
No one has to do anything.
neontiger07@reddit
lol you said I used a strawman, I proved I didn't, and now you wanna argue about my point. The fuck outta here.
x7n1nj47x@reddit
Or perhaps you're incapable of extracting the anomaly that is women cannot exist in society the same ways the men can, and that is inherently by design. A design that men came up with. So when you're looking at an oppressed class, of course the goal when seeking liberation from oppression is to remove the differences between the classes.
Shifting the blame onto women for "wanting to be like men, which is a problem because women should just be women" is not the argument you think it is. It is still inherently misogynistic and it seems that you aren't even aware of that fact.
WagwanKenobi@reddit
Ah but that's exactly OP's point. It's not. The differences are natural.
Only if you define oppression as how far you deviate from a man's life.
Very subtle strawman. Nobody said "should". Women should be allowed to do everything a man does. But a woman's societal worth shouldn't be judged by how man-like their life is.
OP is simply saying women should cherish what it means to be a woman instead of lamenting all the ways that they're different from men.
Ok-Address-7352@reddit
Try explaining this to a girl with blue hair
mischievous_shota@reddit
Any person with half a brain will call you out for it.
bannabananabanna@reddit
?gurl
Godhole34@reddit
OP...
Did you make that comment yourself then post it here?
SeizeTheFatOne@reddit
This is 100% OPs own post. Notice that there are no replies on it. Nobody cared enough about his post to respond to it on 4Chan so he posted a screenshot here and pretended he found some gem.
Wonderful-Amount410@reddit
Giga W.
JustChillin3456@reddit
Reality is a myth
Since the push towards equality men and women are less likely to marry and have sex more than ever before
SeizeTheFatOne@reddit
OP posting his own screenshots to spread his soapbox post witb zero (You)s to reddit because nobody GAF enough to reply on 4chan.
Lord_Ezelpax@reddit
If anything women have more rights than men now
x7n1nj47x@reddit
Categorically incorrect.
luvs2hugs@reddit
Ummm sweety, you're antisemitism is showing ;)
spectralities@reddit
Men are generally stronger, women are generally smarter. It's a balance.
Hubertino855@reddit
OP is an sociopathic schizo, giga coomer or never had any positive emotional connection with Human women in his life due to being mega autismo...
I'm interested if OP would have enough integrity to spread same messaging if he was female instead XD
Satyrsol@reddit
Men being larger has nothing to do with protecting and everything to do with competing with other males for the attention of females.
We made the whole “women nurture, men protect” a thing because of culture. You see this in agricultural civilizations all the time. The actual labor in fields doesn’t meaningfully change between sexes, and women are just as productive at weeding and tending to crops as men are.
Sounds like OP trying to justify an unhealthy mindset to me.
4canaux@reddit
People who justifies
Saar
Limgrave@reddit
This kind of misogyny is very indian so shit grammar makes sense. I don't need to justify my hatred for women with words I just HATE.
peepeeinmypajts@reddit
Notice how the flag is just cut out
Arrival_Joker@reddit
Actually i knew it was indian because this misandry argument is very common amongst indian men.
Top_Agency1370@reddit
What the fuck you say?
Bloody bastard!
GR-717@reddit
Indians justify feminism? What?
LateNightDoober@reddit
Legit reads like it was written by some saar who is WAY too into Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson. Dude is one instance of his wife mowing their lawn away from an honor killing. The difference between the chud and saar brains is that the chud simply knows not to shit in public.
RK9990@reddit
Also
Not the men's fault on why women
Gilgamesh107@reddit
"cancelled the laws of nature"
he says while typing on the internet
"its just nature"
he says while stuffing his fat face with all the chemicals the corpos put in his chicken nuggies
his words and thoughts are meaningless
bstone99@reddit
MOM! Bathroom
heyodai@reddit
Did this post hit all or something? Lot of Reddit ass comments
getpoopedon@reddit
You're on reddit. Are you regarded?
heyodai@reddit
no this is 4chan
wordjedi@reddit
You had me in the first 1 1/2 paragraphs ngl, but then as my mind wandered during the schizo rant, I remembered there are 8.2 billion people on this fragile blue marble.
Don't need or want them all to do the log cabins n' tradcon babies thing. Don't have space for all those lil Daniel and Danielle Boones. Don't care how good you chop logs or how hard you milk your goats - we're all gonna die if everybody does that.
bannabananabanna@reddit
based
Hau65@reddit
Nature is simply so infallible that it actually gives people a big ol brain tumor is for the greater good. Genius!
TTrainN2024@reddit
He is right tho
oregonian_stella@reddit
No
ObjectBrilliant7592@reddit
I don't agree with his gender roles exactly as prescribed, but it is true that men and women play the game of life by very different sets of rules and expectations, despite what soys on the internet think. The moment you accept this reality, relationships with the opposite sex, both platonic and romantic, make way more sense and become much easier.
"Why do men get to do this"
"Why do women get that"
Worrying about this bs is draining and you aren't going to change most of it. You are honestly better off saving your mental energy for things that actually matter.
GR-717@reddit
I'm so confused by this comment section
getpoopedon@reddit
I'm have a feeling there's plenty that confuses you.
johnnylovelace@reddit
Og thread was completely ignored that’s how you know op posted and it’s confirmed dogshit
StealYour20Dollars@reddit
We'll he's sort of right. Anyone who talks like this could never be the equal of a woman.
JablesRadio@reddit
Very well said.
DarkGamer@reddit
What a pathetic existence
GR-717@reddit
Is this your first time on r/4chan
ironpathwalker@reddit
If the male loneliness epidemic went harder, we would solve the whole incel problem in 5 years or so. Make that man lonelier.
GR-717@reddit
Corny
Spybot64@reddit
Yes, return to monke. I wonder where in nature he got the computer he made the post on. The nature can come suck my dick (and eat my shit).
clayticus@reddit
Amen
sakkara@reddit
Probably coming from someone either obsessively obese or spaghetti arms and legs. The only thing he's capable of protecting is his wet dream of a government issued wife.
jerrymandias@reddit
POV: You're 15 and you just tried weed for the first time
Jack-of-Hearts-7@reddit
This is gayer than those posts that start off with, "I'm not gay, but..."
Copy_and_Paste99@reddit
Brown fingers reeking of curry and feces typed this post
Top_Agency1370@reddit
Anon is 110 pounds and cannot grow facial hair writing about protecting family
BillyJackO@reddit
I like how humans are trying to invent new cyber species and some fuck tard who isn't getting laid is talking about "laws of nature" like they apply to us.
BannedSvenhoek86@reddit
This is rich coming from someone whose probably never been in the same room as a vagina.
Crafty-Beyond-2202@reddit
You can tell how many years the OP hasn't gotten laid by the length of the anti-feminist screed/manifesto
c0micsansfrancisco@reddit
Guys like these would justify the Monarchy
Benana@reddit
Such eloquence.
Mr__Castle_@reddit
Misandry is a huge market for females to spend money on instead of having kids.
No_Attempt_3307@reddit
First two paragraphs are true, but the rest it just tradcuck babble.
volatile-solution@reddit
a 33 y/o ugly, 5'2 manlet, virgin incel, wrote this to power his fantasy to dominate women deemed beneath him.
i am surprised that women have not adopted feminism as their religion and radfems did not become their extremist jihadis. they still think men will ever let them gain equal rights, influence and institutional power. guess what, they will never let them gain it, other than throwing them some scraps towards them to make them feel content.
misandry is necessary tool for women to keep men in check, but i am afraid, it is not enough actually. after thousands of years under brutal totalitarian oppression under men where even today, 90% of women are just house slave bang maids, a status less than most degenerate, lowest man out there, you think they should have any grace for men?
No_Attempt_3307@reddit
SAAR
Wonderful-Amount410@reddit
Omg!!!
Look! Look!
Anon has 2 functional brain cells!
RaidShadowLegends420@reddit
Unfortunately that is the highest amount of brain cells he has ever had
RaidShadowLegends420@reddit
Yes, nature and evolution, where animals and creatures are constantly in life or death situations, where it is a kill or be killed world. Truly how we should aim to live. And not in a civilized society built on a foundation of freedoms and prevention of unnecessary suffering. Which is the most unnatural thing of all.
charmingasaneel@reddit
This guy definitely doesn’t have a family.
The idea that there’s some magical division between who protects and who serves the family is hilarious.
Even if you’re lucky enough to be the sole breadwinner your wife spends most of their time protecting the kids from all the hassles and horrors of childhood. You just bring home a check and occasionally do chores.
What’s sad is he’s larping being a head of household in his head.
andreslucer0@reddit
It was once said by a very wise man that God created men, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
Your pseudoscientific malarkey cannot stand against the march of progress, cuckolde.
mikeltronski@reddit
Could be the wrong opinion to have but what happens if the law of nature shifts because society rewards different things now. What if women were to perform better in education than men and get the higher paying jobs and on average men get the lower paying jobs. It would make more sense for the man in the household to become the primary caretaker as it is the most financially literature option, if there is a child at all.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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Unkuni_@reddit
Yea, that's not how nature works
Wonderful-Amount410@reddit
Proof?