[UK] Single-sex toilets must exclude transgender people, says EHRC
Posted by F0urLeafCl0ver@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 45 comments
Posted by F0urLeafCl0ver@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 45 comments
NekoCatSidhe@reddit
This has got to be the dumbest culture war law ever, because it is basically unenforceable. Are they going to be putting guards at the entrance of all public toilets, asking people to drop their pants to prove that they are the “correct” gender, just so they can discriminate against the 0.5% or whatever of the population that is trans ? That would be sure to prove rather unpopular.
blob8543@reddit
I guess the point is not enforcement but making trans people scared and getting them to not leave their home. If this means that some trans people will fall into depression or take their lives, that's not a problem for the TERFs.
Mccobsta@reddit
People I know who are trans aren't realy gonna give a shit and still do what they've been doing
blob8543@reddit
There are some very confident trans people who won't care but many will.
NomineAbAstris@reddit
It's enforceable in the same way that Russia's laws against "LGBT propaganda" are. They know they can't entirely legislate the existence of trans people out of society, but forcing them underground and punishing anyone who dares become visible is "good enough". The punishment of people who don't conform to traditional gender norms is just a happy accident, and if anyone complains that it's starting to impinge against "real" women, there will be a gentle finger wagging to remind them that this is a price worth paying to be free of those icky trans people.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
This is more pointless culture war exercise than law. It is designed to empower bigots and TERFs not solve any real world problem and all to make trans people feel like they don’t deserve to exist. Are we gonna have weirdos asking to see your genitals at the door?
EEeeTDYeeEE@reddit
People already need to varify their age (and identity) to use the internet in many places. So yes. Yes they would, even under 18s. Especially if they are under 18. Gotta protect the under 18s. I don't even know if I'm exaggerating.
Shrubgnome@reddit
Being a weirdo asking to see your genitals is effectively encouraged under the new guidance 👍
dsac@reddit
Keep people distracted and angry about bathrooms instead of focused and angry on how we're all being exploited by the wealthy
Snoo63@reddit
It's either that or punishing women who don't look feminine by eurocentric standards.
RedWillia@reddit
You know, every time I see headlines like this, I think what kind of ultra perverts are walking around me - I've been using bathrooms for over three decades and I couldn't point out any features of anyone else who used a bathroom next to me even if you were threatening me with a gun. Yet these ultra perverts are staring at everyone so deeply that they can identify their genital configuration by fold and by wrinkle, apparently.
Snoo63@reddit
The only way to enforce this is to look at everybody's genitalia - it's literally a "uniary leash" law that they're wanting to introduce. If gender non-conforming people cannot safely use the toilet (since these sorts of people are also behind getting rid of "supertoilets" - toilets where it's floor-to-ceiling walls, and each cubical contains everything, like sanitary bins, sinks, possibly period products), then they're defacto banned from public life if they can't use a gender-neutral toilet, like what everybody has in their house.
NomineAbAstris@reddit
Not even, because this legislation refers to "biological sex", aka what you were assigned at birth. Even if you have transitioned medically and legally, were on puberty blockers and HRT from the earliest possible moment, and are completely visually indistinguishable from a cis woman or man even in terms of genitalia, you are still legally prohibited from using single-sex bathrooms.
Conversely, note how the article points out that "in healthcare, where mixed-sex accommodation is not available, trans patients must be accommodated on the single-sex ward that accords with their biological sex." So again, even if you have done everything physically and medically possible to transition, and you are completely indistinguishable from a cis man or woman - you still have to be placed in a ward that corresponds to your "biological sex". You can be a bodybuilder with bulging muscles, a long beard, and a horse cock, but as far as the law is concerned you have to be put in the women's ward.
It's completely fucking psychotic and obviously malicious in intent. Every single person involved with this travesty ought to be permanently exiled to Saint Helena.
blob8543@reddit
It is a fucking mess. The wording is extremely convoluted. Lots of businesses/organizations will not understand it and will have to pay lawyers to decipher it. And even after that, they will remain open to litigation from both TERFs and trans people unless they can provide four types of bathrooms (female, male, gender neutral and accessible) which of course will be impossible to do in most cases.
Magjee@reddit
Even at the Olympics, the Algerian boxer, Imane Khelif, who had all that scrutiny in Paris, would not be allowed to compete in Los Angeles due to new genetic testing and rules
So even being born with the genitals that matched your birth certificate and your gender don't count. It's so batshit crazy
Shrubgnome@reddit
Also, to the last point, what trans person would even want to sue against exclusion of a space for their "biological sex"? Being a trans woman in the men's locker room is an absolute horror story. The de facto result will be her no longer going to the gym.
TachiH@reddit
I always expected a future where I need to use retina scans and finger printing to access things.
Never once did I think I will need to pop my cock into a scanner to be allowed to take a pee. 🤣
Magjee@reddit
The AI dong clocker!
/$
Emperor_Cat_IV@reddit
That wouldn't work either, plenty of trans women get sex reassignment surgery, which can look more or less the same externally unless you're a gynaecologist or similar
Snoo63@reddit
And, because DNA isn't 100% either XX or XY, both "sex" and "gender" are bs.
Emperor_Cat_IV@reddit
As strict immutable binaries for sure. Sex does exist as a construct of different physiological, genetic, and hormonal traits and gender is real as a social construct in the same way laws are, useful reflections of human psychology but affected by a society's culture.
HyperionSaber@reddit
And on trains and planes
Forged-Signatures@reddit
Oh, there's a word for it to 'transvestigation', whereby they look at features such as facial bone structure, collarbone prominence, jaw shape, etc, to determine 'transness'.
The problem is, they got so many false-positives that it spun off into a conspiracy theory that all celebrities transition to become famous, with those who are publically trans "fighting the system" and returning to their birth sex. It gets... weird? Because they dislike Eliot Page for being trans... but also see them as fighting against the elites that are forcing everyone to become trans.
However, that kind of got away from me. The problem with this transvestigation stuff though is that, by the numbers, black women and women who do not conform to feminine standards are going to be the most harrassed with legislation like this in place, policed by those with restrictive sexist views of what women should look like.
Wischiwaschbaer@reddit
"Funny" thing is, J.K. Rowling without or with minimal makeup would absolutely ping on those transvestigators radars.
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
Something like 0.7-1.4% of the population is born with medically definable non binary features. We are discriminating against 1% of the population. What's next? Start ripping out all the wheelchair ramps?
Forged-Signatures@reddit
Oh, no, my detraction isn't framed around people who are medically non-binary (which I presume you are meaning intersex? Which is an entirely seperate issue), instead I'm framing it around women, biological women, who don't meet traditionally 'womanly' (ie, Euro-centric) beauty standards.
So we're talking about black women are typically stereotypically seen as more 'man-like' and 'inherently less feminine' than white or asian women. We're talking about people who match the stereotypical butch lesbian appearence, younger women shorter hair, and the like; women who are much taller than average, let's say 5'10 (a 'mannish height'); muscular women; or just simply women who just have masculine facial features.
Legistlation like this is asking the average person to define what women look like, and honestly there is so much diversity, admittedly combined with a little racism/ prejudice) that the people most affected by this, by the numbers is women. It'll be women being harassed for 'being a man', it'll be cis women arrested for trespassing as they try to wee, and it'll be cis women who are demanded to let someone check their genitals to prove they are really a woman.
Lancashire_Toreador@reddit
Let them accuse GNC cis folks as much as they want and pay out the settlements for harassment. They’ll soon learn whether they want to leave people alone or lose their livelihoods
kitti-kin@reddit
Unfortunately their own code of practice says this
So harassing people for the way they look seems to be legally protected.
Lancashire_Toreador@reddit
Ohh wonderful we’re bringing back sumptuary laws except if a woman doesn’t look like one of the stepford wives she can be interrogated by the police
Seradwen@reddit
I believe it's less about accusing random people of being trans (though I'm sure that'll happen too) and more about getting another way to bully anyone they already know to be trans out of public life.
actuallywaffles@reddit
Yeah. I've never cared about sharing a bathroom with a trans person. But the ultra perverts making aggressive eye contact with strangers in a bathroom do make me uncomfortable. Maybe they should be the ones banned from public bathrooms since they're the ones being inappropriate.
spiceyanus@reddit
Finally, a small step back in the right rection. I'm just surprised it's the UK of all places.
blob8543@reddit
If what you mean by right direction is more trans people committing suicide then yes, this guidance will help with that.
SomeDumRedditor@reddit
What an absolutely failed state the U.K. has become. This is the public’s priority along with “the muzzies” not the surveillance state they live in, the crippled economy they deal with or, the decay of their social-assistance systems.
blob8543@reddit
It's unfortunate the main 3 parties in the UK at the moment are deeply fascist.
blob8543@reddit
This stuff will be impossible to enforce in most cases but it will embolden bigots who won't hesitate to humiliate trans people openly in public now.
It will also lead to higher rates of depression and suicide amongst trans people.
Every Labour politician (including Starmer AND Andy Burnham, who is already signing up to side with bigots on many issues) and every single member, voter and supporter of the party should be ashamed.
Qegola@reddit
Fuck off. If a trans person wants to take a leak or dump a load, why does anybody give a shit which bathroom they walk into other than ignorance-led fear mongering or signle-minded hatred.
We have real problems - our economy is imbalanced, immigration is being handled terribly, criminal activity going unfettered, unemployment hotspots, but NO, let's tell people "fuck you you're not longer allowed to use public toilets".
Fuck the current UK government supporting this. Fuck the legal system that advocated this. Fuck the EHRC for the single most disgusting regression in the most basic human rights in living memory.
NewToHTX@reddit
In Texas we have this chain of Refueling Stations called Buccee’s. They are giant convenience stores that attract a lot of customers. The biggest plus are the toilets. In both the men’s and women’s you’ll get a fully enclosed room with a toilet and a full door. There isn’t a stall but an actual room.
This would be the ideal restroom for everyone no matter which gender. The people fighting against this would absolutely love it and wonder why they fought it in the first place. The business owners will complain about costs to renovation to meet compliance but they also complained when they had to make buildings handicapped accessible. And now nobody complains about handicapped accessible facilities because they are all built into new building designs. We are actively fighting against quality of life progress here in the US.
metisdesigns@reddit
You're right, except for one thing.
There are still people who complain about having to make things accessible. Even $20 for a lever handle vs $12 for a knob upsets some folks.
Another_Slut_Dragon@reddit
Here it is common to see restaurants that have removed all the gender signs for any single room bathrooms. Signs like 'whatever, just don't piss on the seat' are commonplace.
psyche_13@reddit
There are full doors in most of the UK - no gaps like in US/Canada. Even if there are stalls, the doors are higher and lower and any gaps are covered
blown-transmission@reddit
First nationwide trans bathroom ban as far as i know. This "problem" literally started existing 5 years ago by massive media propaganda and rise of conservatives. In all of humanity, nobody cared. All they cared was if you look apart, trans people switched bathrooms according to if they passed. Which is still the case but now there is a lot of gnc trans and cis people. And now trans people are more visible. We were there, we used the bathrooms next to cis people and it wasn't a problem untill cis people noticed the existence of trans people.
People don't care about gendered bathrooms in the rest of the world. Often there no laws for it, not even a trans accepting one. Because it is vibes based and nobody actually cares. Exposing or assaulting is already a crime, trying to legistate bathroom access is a nightmere. I myself have been to both bathrooms before/after transition, mostly due to being drunk. Should I be arrested for going to wrong bathroom while being drunk? Or just confusing the sign on the door? Or using the opposite gender single use bathroom? Should janitors or police officers abide by this? Complete nonsense and this will only be used to harass trans people and business.
Turtle_With_Grudge@reddit
TERF Ieland doing TERF Island shit. The enforcement hurts cis people as much as it does trans people. Everyone gets to have their gender police, and everyone gets to feel a little less safe going to the toilet.
This is a way to legally refuse services to trans individuals. Now all a shopkeeper needs to say is they do not have any toilets other than single sex ones. It's a stupid, anachronistic ruling that will not keep people from being Trans.
Worldly_Anybody_9219@reddit
I have never even thought about or cared who is using the stall next to me. In fact I'd rather not think about it. Who are these weirdos who are so preoccupied and paranoid about bathrooms and why. It's some kind of mental illness, surely.
Nervous-Basis-1707@reddit
The UK is an island full of HR managers who somehow managed to take power. No place in the western world I’d want to live in less. Just an unserious island full of hall monitors and genital inspectors. Trans bathroom usage is only ever a problem for chronically online right wingers. In Canada none of us GAF about this.