Russia uses hypersonic Oreshnik missile in mass attack on Kyiv, after Putin vows revenge for dorm attack
Posted by PurpleMclaren@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 483 comments
cmrd_msr@reddit
6x6.
Finally, the government has done what Ukrainians have been begging for. As always, after creating a localized hell in the city, the enemy is claiming minimal casualties. Very discreet. I'm proud of the command.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
I will get downvoted, but if Germany or the UK choose to host factories producing missiles or drones intended to kill Russians, they should be considered legitimate targets for these Oreshniks.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Why would Russia open a second front against a more capable force? That’s just suicide.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
What second front would be opened? You think EU leaders are gonna send men to be drone footage? Thats political suicide.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Wait, you think the citizens would just accept being attacked? UK and Germany aren’t fighting this war, just supply
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They would pressure their leaders to stop wasting their tax dollars on a war that doesnt involve them and is now getting their land attacked.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Those type of attacks have a great track record with galvanizing the citizens in the other direction.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Civilian targets like the US/Isreal hitting a school with hundreds of children in Iran certainly would have that reaction but striking a factory that creates drones/missiles used in the targeting of Russian citizens is different.
I think its much more likely citizens protest and end of weapons shipments over lining up to join meatwave assaults.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
I guess we’re lucky that Europe has been watching Russia do the same thing to Ukraine then. They care more about their weapons going to Israel than Ukraine. I’m sure a small percentage would, but a majority would more than likely being a favor of retaliations.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
I somehow doubt that after nuclear capable missiles rained down on an EU city that they would be in favor of seeing MORE of that.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Would Russia after the same thing happens to them?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Again, i doubt that UK would welcome Armageddon for Ukraine, the more likely scenario is they wake up to what games they are playing and stop.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
And again, those types of attacks end up having the opposite effect.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Again, i doubt the people of UK/Germany/Canada are gonna sign up to go push trenches for Ukraine, absolute fantasy. Whats more likely is they protest a stop to the shipments to Ukraine.
You can believe whatever you want but next steps for the Russians are clear, they will not sit back and allow the west to supply Ukraine weapons for their terroristic acts.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Just like the fantasy of Russia attacking them. I’ll just go with what history shows has happened, you keep going with what you believe.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
"The nazis entered the war with the naive notion no one would strike them back"
MrDemonRush@reddit
Surprisingly fitting, given that Russia started this war with no real gain after 4 years of it.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
If the Russians arent gaining anything why does NATO not allow them to surrender?
MrDemonRush@reddit
Why would they? Russia decided that they can do what they want and evade all consequences. The West will pressure them until they collapse. War being existential for Ukraine doesn't mean it can't be used to finally deal with remains of an empire who likes to brag about nukes, especially when they refuse ceasefire offers.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
The weat will fight till the last Ukrainian type of vibes.
What happens when theres no Ukrainians left? Youre signing up?
MrDemonRush@reddit
That's a point that is quite far away from now. Besides, this thing isn't going to end regardless, given war is brewing in Europe for the first time since WW2. If Ukraine falls, others will step in. Russia started WW3 back in 2022, just without the nuclear bombardment we all expected.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
4 years later and Ukrainian long range drones are starting to bomb back, I guess the saying is still true.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thats exactly what im referring to, where do you think those drones are built?
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Ukraine assembles the drones, they get the supplies from everyone else. Are you going to tell me Russia should bomb China because they supply Ukraine too?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Ukraine doesnt have production facilities in Ukraine because they get blown up, their "fix" for this was to sign agreements with EU countries to manufacture them in their territory.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Wow! They have no production? Then what did they attack last night then?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Underground bunkers with the oresnik and other strategic targets with the missiles
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
I wonder what strategic targets are… I don’t think the Queen of England is buried there.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Command centers, I doubt Ukrainians have many production facilities in Kyiv..
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Wouldn’t command centers be in underground bunkers? I’m sure you do. Have you seen any large city in the whole world that doesn’t have some production capacity in them?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thing is Kyiv has been under bombardment for 4 years.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
And then what? They formally bring a coalition specifically designed to fight Russia into the war?
Seems even more idiotic than Putin normally.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Huh? You mean a few more strongly worded letters?
What would they do? Send their men to be drone footage? Get real.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
In the instance of a direct attack?
Russian shipping from the Baltic would be seized and forbidden from leaving. That's a minimum.
It would be far less popular to risk lives in Ukraine if Russia directly struck British or German soil.
But also, using a nuclear capable missile would trigger Armageddon. The UK would retaliate with tridents against Moscow and other major cities.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Using an unarmed but nuclear capable missile on EU territory is a clear message to the world for something they seem to have been forgetting.
Stop supporting strikes on the Russian motherland or we enter another stone age.
somethingbrite@reddit
Russia using ANY sort of weapons system on a NATO member is an immediate article 5
Putin knows this. It's why he won't.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
NATO isnt sending troops to die for nothing. Putin knows this.
somethingbrite@reddit
Defending a NATO ally which has been attacked (especially if it is a neighbour) isn't "nothing"
If Russia is so fucking cool why didn't your parents/grandparents/whatever move there instead of Canada champ?
Why don't YOU move there?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Except Russia has still captured territory even after all the Ukrainian deaths. Literally dying for nothing.
What would British/German/Canadian troops do? Magically stop the Russian advance? Get real.
Canada seemed like a better option, however the past few years have changed my families view on life here.
somethingbrite@reddit
If you think that defending your country from invasion is "dying for nothing" then you absolutely should leave. Go somewhere where nobody would defend their family, their property or their neighbours.
As for Canada being a better option than Russia. Clearly it is. Russia was shite under the tsars, it was shite under the Soviets and it's shite under Putin. A large place full of broken infrastructure and broken people.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
What have the dead Ukrainians defended? 20% of eastern Ukraine has fallen to Russia and wont be recaptured.
The only question is how much more land the west is going to let Putin take.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
You realise the UK has nuclear missiles right? They'd start the retaliation before the missile lands. Countries don't wait to see if a strike's inbound.
There's a reason Russia hasn't attacked his "big Satan" in the UK.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Yes.
Im not the one calling for it, this is the current Russian sentiment.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
You literally are calling for it. You said they should be legitimate targets for nuclear capable missiles. How isn't that calling for it?
Stand by your words or don't say them.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
From the perspective of Russians, they should be legitimate targets for nuclear capable missiles.
We can argue semantics, but I do believe that the EU needs to be made aware of what games they are playing.
Whats that quote again? Something about the nazis getting into the war not expecting to get hit back?
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
So you're saying a nuclear capable strike should go off against the UK?
So should the UK not retaliate when that happens?
Seems like your quote applies to the Russians.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
The UK is already strikes Russia from the eyes of Russians, so yes the next step for them is to send a nuclear capable missile on EU land as a message.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
So you want Russia to be struck with an actual nuclear strike in retaliation?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Youre making the assumption that the UK would risk nuclear Armageddon over a single strike.
Moscow has been hit multiple times now with no nukes used.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
Moscow hasn't been hit with nuclear capable missiles. Moscow hasn't been fighting a country with nuclear weapons; of course they're not afraid Ukraine will nuke them.
If a nuclear capable missile is in flight from a nuclear power it's assumed to be nuclear. They won't wait to see it land.
Russia won't strike the west though, nuclear retaliation or not. It can't even win in Ukraine against a country with a strictly inferior military. How will it win if you add weapons and expertise specifically designed to fight Russia?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Moscow warns governments when they launch an oresnik, thats how we knew 24hours before these strikes that they would happen.
Moscow using a nuclear capable missile with inert warheads is a clear message to stop playing games.
How UK intends to respond is up to them.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
This forewarning game works for missile tests and strikes against non-nuclear powers.
They know it wouldn't work against a nuclear adversary.
Stop jerking off to the thought of people dying. You Russia stans are almost as bad as Israel defenders ffs.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Actually, many see it as the quickest way to end the war. For the west to stop supporting the corrupt Ukrainian regime.
A strike on EU land is the best way to get that message across, you may not like it but thats the position your leaders have put you in.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
End the war by having the new NATO-Russia border be in Belarus?
Great plan.
Conflictingview@reddit
A Ruzzian troll saying that is quite the irony
cmrd_msr@reddit
Who cares what other people think? The Hazelnut was beautiful in flight. Six packages of six warheads. The operators had good cameras, it looked pretty good. It's a shame they didn't show it here.
I'm proud of the way the targets were chosen. Hundreds of drones, dozens of missiles. The civilian death toll is lower than a human can count on one hand (at least that's what the enemy says). This is a very high-class operation.
loggy_sci@reddit
Typical bloodthirsty Russian warmonger. Truly pathetic bootlicker. Go back to your shitty gas station country and stop murdering Ukrainians so your oligarch mafia boss president can steal yet another country. Truly the most whipped, servile pathetic people on the planet.
eelsandpeels@reddit
Russia is too scared of escalation.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Their motherland is being attacked, they actually have nothing to lose.
eelsandpeels@reddit
They have their motherland to lose. I wonder why there motherland is being attacked.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
In their eyes they are already pushed in a corner, not sure what you are confused about.
The worst person you need to fear is someone with nothing to lose.
eelsandpeels@reddit
If the Russian have been forced into a corner by invading Ukraine how do you think the Ukrainians feel?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Probably tired of being used as cannon fodder for the west while they buy time to rearm: https://busification.org/en
More and more Ukrainians are waking up to the fact they are being used as a proxy.
They are dying while Russia still captures more territory every month, their deaths in complete vain.
Id assume they are tired of it and want it to stop as soon as possible.
loggy_sci@reddit
Get fucked. You push Russian propaganda from Canada you pathetic loser.
redditikonto@reddit
Yes and if you get raped and stab your rapist, it would be completely legal and ok for your rapist to kill you in self defense. No but seriously, Russia has no legitimate targets since nobody has attacked them.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Without your factories they wouldnt be able to strike the russian motherland which makes them legitimate targets for the Russians.
redditikonto@reddit
No, it's you making excuses for Russian warmongering. The one correct way for Russia to defend from any strikes is by stopping their war of aggression. The reality is that they choose to escalate instead.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
"The nazis entered this war with the naive notion expecting no one to strike them back"
redditikonto@reddit
Naised, like Russians, had no legitimate targets either. I get your implication but it's trash. If Russia wants to escalate, they will find an excuse and you will support it. Doesn't make it legitimate.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Are you forgetting how the allies won the war? Indiscriminate bombing of civilian population centers?
redditikonto@reddit
Totally irrelevant to the topic
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Huh? Where you not talking about indiscriminate bombing?
redditikonto@reddit
No
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
redditikonto@reddit
Correct. War of aggression is inherently unethical. There is no difference between "indiscriminate bombing" and coming up with excuses to bombing a particular place.
Sawmain@reddit
Ok so by that logic Iran and China are both legitimate targets ?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
What weapons do China & Iran produce and send to Russia?
If you said North Korea that would be fair but good luck sending anything at Kim without a nuclear response.
onespiker@reddit
Shahed drones. Russia has used tens of thousands of them.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Not a single Iranian Shahed has been sent because Russia produces Gerans in house. One factory produces 44k a year.
No they are not, parts are bought from China, just like Ukraine does.
kapuh@reddit
Lie.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You found a single anonymous source claiming that, doesnt make it true.
kapuh@reddit
It was just the top google result.
I liked to a comment with more sources.
This all you got?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
I replied the same thing under that comment
kapuh@reddit
So there are two sources and your comment makes even less sense.
Where are the sources for your claim?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You want me to find sources for the claim that iran isnt sending shaheds to russia?
Here's a video of a russian factory: https://youtu.be/vYoXukl_GIM?si=9iD_RbYUUHif5Xzj
Enjoy!
kapuh@reddit
Where is the connection?
Everybody knows they build them. It doesn't mean they got drones from Iran too.
Do you have at least something which would smear the other sources? Do you have ANYTHING besides quotes from RT?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You want me to find sources to disprove a negative, youre arguing in bad faith.
Logically if russia is building 44k drones a year from one factory they dont need iran.
kapuh@reddit
You did not accept both sources.
Why?
You are known to spam Kreml bs in every thread regarding Russia. Therefore, "your" "opinion" is worthless.
Bring something. Anything which would come from a credible source and which would discredit the other two.
Hell, I didn't even bother bringing more and we both know there is more. You have it easy.
Go for it.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Anonymous sources arent a source in my eyes.
I spawn Kremlin bullshit like these videos Ukrainians take of other Ukrainians being kidnapped? https://busification.org/en
Why would Ukrainians spread Kremlin propaganda? Or are they ai?
kapuh@reddit
They are anonymous to you.
Not to those who work with that.
What would you want? The names of involved people so they might be hunted down and killed? Are you mad or just naive?
Don't whatabout away from your media incompetence.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
A few drones sent before the war doesnt mean that iran is supplying them or that Russia relies on them like Ukraine does the west.
Doesnt change much, not like Iran has any to spare considering they are you know.. in their own war with the West.
kapuh@reddit
Oh look at youuuu.
So now it's not "not a single" anymore, but "a few"?
How long do I have to proceed until you're at the actual level of reality?
How are you not ashamed of yourself?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You clearly arent concerned with reality since youre still here trying to convince me that Iran is supplying Russia with drones while defending their own country from NATO aggression lol
Conflictingview@reddit
Iran has sent Shahed drones and the technical knowledge of how to produce them.
During the war, they have sold Russia $2.7 billion of missiles.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-12/iran-is-said-to-have-sent-russia-2-7-billion-worth-of-missiles
They have a broader military alliance wherein Iran has provided munitions and other supplies to help Russia sustain the battle.
https://www.stimson.org/2024/iran-and-russia-enter-a-new-level-of-military-cooperation/
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They signed a military partnership so they are now sending hundreds of ballistic missiles? US & Iranian officials denied the report.
You found a single anonymous source claiming that, doesnt make it true.
siorge@reddit
fuck you both!
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thats not very nice.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Interesting that one celebrating the deaths of civilians cares about naughty words
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thats a strong accusation, do you have any proof to back that up?
asey_69@reddit
Don't bother, this guy has nothing better to do than flame Ukraine all day while I'm pretty sure that "cmrd_msr" is a literal Russian government actor (tried to recruit me into leaking ukrainian positions on his telegram channel)
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
How am I "flaming" ukraine?
usesidedoor@reddit
Get the fuck out of Ukraine.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Im not in Ukraine
somethingbrite@reddit
No. You are in Canada.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
So how would I get out of Ukraine if im not there..?
m4ryo0@reddit
What about China that supplies Ukraine with drone components? Should they be a target?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
China is neutral and supplies both.
Murmulis@reddit
This is where you say "Russia should Oreshnik Shanghai" or something. Its your own talking point, how did you miss it?
Ok_Fox9820@reddit
Why do I have this weird feeling that if we execute attack you're describing you're going to cry crocodile tears on how unjust and escalationary it is that NATO retaliates back.
TetraThiaFulvalene@reddit
If Russia treats any EU or NATO as a legitimate target, then all of Russia is a legitimate target for any alliance member.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
It already is, they just send drone prototypes & missiles to their proxy Ukraine, have you not been paying attention..? Thats exactly what my comment is a response to lol
fretnbel@reddit
Fafo
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Keep the same energy when Herstal, Belgium is hit with an Oresnik.
aneq@reddit
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Ivan, you talk a lot of shit for someone from a country where 80% of relevant population lives in 2 cities.
Petersburg is in range of Finnish conventional artillery. What do you think will happen to this city if you dare to attack? It will be deleted from the map. Then it's just Moscow to deal with - but Ukrainians seem to be capable.
Western europeans might be fooled by human rights and "poor russians being victims of Putin" but we, easterners know you well and know your animalistic horde behaviour. We will not grant rights to people who would not grant you rights.
The only thing keeping you from attacking is the threat of retaliation. And we will end you if you try.
TetraThiaFulvalene@reddit
If Russia doesn't like that, why did they start the war?
TimeIntern957@reddit
To not get US political influence and military presence on their border. Ask Iran how that looks.
TetraThiaFulvalene@reddit
Most be so hard when brutalizing half your neighbors have scared the other half, and now they're trying to get protection from you.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
If Europeans don't like Oresniks raining in their cities why do they prolong the war?
TetraThiaFulvalene@reddit
Are you really saying "of fit don't like being bullied, why don't you just lie down and die?"?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thats actually what NATO is doing to Ukraine, they are now kidnapping people: https://busification.org/en
Being forced to die for literally nothing.
Suvvri@reddit
Then Poland and the West should just yeet their arsenals st Russia because Putin and his propagandists threated West multiple times, especially Poland.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Good luck.
Suvvri@reddit
Not ditto, f you, f russia, f everyone who supports these murderers
historicusXIII@reddit
Why are you not on the frontline yet?
cmrd_msr@reddit
I don't answer personal questions online. And I don't ask personal questions online.
historicusXIII@reddit
You won't get a signing bonus if you get conscripted. If you have to go headbut a drone, at least get paid for it.
L4r5man@reddit
This is so stupid by the Russians. The Oreshnik may be hard/impossible to intercept for Ukraine, but the money spent on it could have done so much more if it was funneled into more destructive and conventional missiles or even artillery. Yes, it's a problem, but the bang for the buck (pun intended) is terrible.
sleeper_must_awaken@reddit
You have no idea what it actually targeted. Neither party has any incentive to liberate that information.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Russia has been targeting civilians since day 4 of their 3 day smo.
sleeper_must_awaken@reddit
Before this gets framed as Putin apologetics: Russia started this war, it should stop immediately, and occupied territory should be returned.
That said, compared with many modern wars, Ukraine appears to have had a relatively low civilian-to-combatant casualty ratio. The war has been brutal, but much of the fighting has been conventional: trenches, artillery, drones, missiles, logistics, command structures and military infrastructure.
Both sides are also engaged in information warfare, espionage and operational deception. High-value command targets are likely hardened, concealed and heavily defended. If Russia publicly confirms whether such a strike succeeded, it gives away intelligence and creates pressure to disclose future results. If Ukraine confirms a successful hit, it risks morale damage, exposes sensitive military infrastructure and helps Russia assess its intelligence network.
So neither side has much incentive to give honest public detail about the success or failure of strikes on military targets.
That leaves the public mostly seeing what is visible: destroyed apartment blocks, power stations, hospitals, schools, railway hubs and other civilian or dual-use infrastructure. Those images are real and often horrific, but they are not a complete picture of the military campaign.
Prosthemadera@reddit
What point are you making? Everyone knows this. It is obvious. But one side is justified, the other isn't. There is no "both sides" bullshit here.
Ok it's not the complete picture. Now what?
sleeper_must_awaken@reddit
My point is that if you read my comment correctly, you now know what you don't know.
So, when you hear a message that there was a supersonic missile that hit Ukraine, you know that they decided that you must know. However, you don't know what the target was, you don't know whether they hit the target and you don't even know whether they know if the target was hit.
You now also know that Ukraine disclosed to you that residential buildings were hit. They even show you photos of the buildings, which means the Russian army gained information about the success rate of their own UAVs. You now know that this intentional sharing of information must have balanced positively to the negative consequences of providing this information to the enemy.
Prosthemadera@reddit
What difference does that make? Russia doesn't care what they hit because it's Russia and they murder people, they have ZERO concerns for human lives.
It seems like this is all a videogame to you.
Ukraine has shared photos and videos of Russian attacks before.
Gruejay2@reddit
Their point is that both sides have an incentive not to reveal the real target, or whether the strike successfully destroyed it.
Prosthemadera@reddit
That is not a point. That is a description of something everyone here already knows. A point would be to tell us what we are supposed to do with that information.
sleeper_must_awaken@reddit
I replied to this misinformed comment: "This is so stupid by the Russians. The Oreshnik may be hard/impossible to intercept for Ukraine, but the money spent on it could have done so much more if it was funneled into more destructive and conventional missiles or even artillery. Yes, it's a problem, but the bang for the buck (pun intended) is terrible."
That's assuming that the writer of that comment has all the information necessary for the decision making of the Russian armed forces to be able to say they are 'stupid'. Making such a claim is in itself stupid.
So I replied: "You have no idea what it actually targeted. Neither party has any incentive to liberate that information."
To which I got another misinformed reply: "Russia has been targeting civilians since day 4 of their 3 day smo."
That's true, but not the whole story. The point of the comment you're attacking is that the information we're getting from this war is heavily biased towards civilian casualties and damage to public infrastructure.
So, if everyone knows, as you seem to state, then there must be some logical inconsistency that either you or some of the commenters are making.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Nonsense. The war has been going on for years. If we cannot call Russia stupid today (or whatever else) then we never can.
Also, do you have all information on the decision making of OP to be able to say their claim is stupid? No. You are not even following your own standards.
What is the whole story? They also targeted non-civilians? And? So what?
Or maybe you're looking for inconsistencies because you want to lecture others about their ignorance. Have you tried talking to other humans and asking them before immediately calling their comments stupid?
Gruejay2@reddit
I don't think we can assume that everyone knows that. It's not especially obvious unless you've studied IR.
Prosthemadera@reddit
There we should just assume everyone doesn't know and need to be taught?
Everyone here knows they don't see the full picture because that would be impossible.
TrizzyG@reddit
Thats only a result of Russias ability to do damage, short of using nuclear weapons. They would lose militarily if they focused on massacring civilians. They dont have air superiority, their artillery suffers counter battery fire quickly, and the frontline moves too slowly to occupy any civilians that dont want to be occupied.
Theyre barely holding a minor advantage by focusing on military matters for the past 3 years.
Gruejay2@reddit
This is insightful. Thanks.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
Except the “3 day war” narrative is one US generals spewed on Fox News in late 2021, saying Ukraine wouldn’t last 72 hours against a full force Russian invasion.
And if you want to see what targeting civilians actually looks like, you only need to look at how your own government has been conducting wars and is still conducting them right now.
In Iraq more civilians were killed in a single year than have been killed in 12 years of fighting in Ukraine, the opening salvo of the US illegal war of aggression against Iran did not only target schools, hospitals and civilian infrastructure, it even targeted Iranian negotiators.
Yet somehow Americans still think they hold any moral high ground on how other countries conduct wars, like your country hasn’t been responsible for millions of dead people just during the last 20 years.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Or we could look at actual topic of the thread and not derail it with your "West bad" nonsense again?
Gruejay2@reddit
I always find it funny that people who hide behind flairs like "Multinational" attack users for where they're from.
They presumably think they're being clever, but it just proves they lack integrity.
Prosthemadera@reddit
Probably Russian.
loggy_sci@reddit
Professional-Syrip-0 is a Kremlin mouthpiece and anti-west campist
Gruejay2@reddit
Probably. Some flavour of anti-NATO campist, at least.
Gruejay2@reddit
Is that particular American responsible for it?
Necroon@reddit
Kiev is the most protected city with air defence in Ukraine and far from frontlines. Conventional missiles or artillery won't have much chance.
L4r5man@reddit
That is true, but the money could have been spent on other parts of the front. As you say, Kyiv is the best protected city in Ukraine. Maybe even the world. It's not cost effective to focus on Kyiv.
imunfair@reddit
"Stop hitting us, it's too expensive for you!" is the silliest logic after such an intense attack with some of the best missile footage we've seen in a long time.
It was a show of force after the Ukrainian attack on the civilian college, and if all the western hand-wringing is any indication it was a huge success - politicians and pro-UA redditors alike seem particularly perturbed. I haven't seen this level of indignation combined with downplaying the damage of the strike in quite some time.
Necroon@reddit
Then Ukraine could simply place everything important military-wise in Kiev without the fear of being targeted, without the need of building expensive underground facilities, etc.
ThatDollfin@reddit
Yeah, because everything important military-wise has a) infinite range b) no transport time c) requires very few people d) takes up almost no space. Lmao.
A basic reality of Making Stuff is that you need people to do it, a place for those people to do it, and an ability to get that Stuff to where it's wanted. Kyiv is big, and has a lot of people, but it's not so big with so many people that it could support literally all the military production, equipment, weaponry, soldiers, etc. Even if it could, and even if you moved in tens of millions of people, created housing for them, built up the larger area so they could have key amenities, that still wouldn't solve the primary issue: most military equipment is useless if it's not in range. If you put all the important stuff military-wise in Kyiv, you can only protect Kyiv and a relatively small area around it: in other words, like 0.2% of Ukraine. Not a very good tactic for protecting a country.
Necroon@reddit
I mean for example, Ukraine can build a big drone factory in Kiev and produce drones uninterrupted en masse for years. All in one place, safe from Russia.
Instead of building many smaller factories all around the country, some in foreign countries even. Which is much less effective obviously.
ThatDollfin@reddit
Alright, bud, time for a history lesson.
Strategic bombing, as a concept, relies on throwing massive numbers of explosives at enemy production in an effort to disrupt it. During World War 2, Britain found itself on the receiving end of German strategic bombing, targeting its big, centralized plane factories. So what did they do? Instead of offering up a few big, juicy targets that the Germans could throw a large percentage of their bombs at, they instead spread out their factories to a bunch of towns all across the country, each producing some component of a plane. That way, when the German bombers came a-knocking, they had to pick between spreading out there bombs across a large number of targets, likely doing very little damage to each (due to innacuracy and not knowing exactly where they were), or focusing on a few factories and only very lightly disrupting production. Either way, they got less value.
This concept of dispersed industry is still in use today by Ukraine, because just like London's was 80 years ago, Kyiv's air defense is not invincible. If you throw enough drones at it, some will get through. The key is, because Ukraine's infrastructure is dispersed - because they don't have just one big factory - there isn't a good target for russian drones that get through. Maybe, with the 1% or 5% of drones/missiles that get through, they'll hit a small manufacturing plant and lightly disrupt Ukraine's production. But that's ultimately a small loss, and what's much more common is russian drones missing their targets and hitting civilian infrastructure, houses, or fields, which while still disruptive, is not particularly disruptive to Ukraine's war economy.
That's why factories get spread out. It's a lose-lose for anyone attacking them, forcing them to play whack-a-mole with infrastructure that can easily be rebuilt, and causing them to waste massive amounts of explosives and money on systems that ultimately achieve fairly little.
Necroon@reddit
You missed the point.
If Russia wouldn't attack Kiev - like the redditor suggests in the original post, then Ukraine would be able to build massive factories producing military in one place, which is the most effective way - without the fear of it being disrupted.
But because Russia can attack Kiev even if it's the most protected place in the world, Ukraine must diversify their military industry to smaller and dispersed units, some of them underground, some of them in foreign countries, which of course is more expensive and less effective.
So Russia pays for expensive missiles able to penetrate air defense, and Ukraine pays for more complicated and less effective military production.
ThatDollfin@reddit
Sure - but let's not pretend the cost of those two is the same. Now, is Russia's strategic bombing campaign ineffective? Obviously not, otherwise they wouldn't do it. But the point is that it has already achieved about as much as it ever will. Investing even more in their campaign, as they're apparently doing, doesn't do much more - the production has already been diversified and Ukraine has already paid the price of dispersing their industry. Dumping even more resources into it doesn't... make them diversify more. It just wastes Russia's already-limited resources, especially considering these "hypersonic" weapons they're using are apparently not guided.
In other words: utilising missiles which penetrate air defense at very high cost doesn't really affect Ukraine's ability to manufacture any more. It's a waste for Russia, who's already very strained in its resources for this war, and means those missiles aren't being used on softer targets.
And if I'm honest, it reeks of desperation. Desperation from a country that's out of ways to escalate farther without risking nuclear war, desperation because Ukraine isn't collapsing despite their best efforts for over 4 years. Desperation because without cheap scare tactics, they have no way of ending this war before their economy is irreparably ruined. Because the thing is, missiles that can bypass air defenses are only as useful as the targets they can hit - and the targets that are worth their price point are few and far between. So much for Russia's "escalation."
Necroon@reddit
Russia is not using their most expensive missiles that often either - this is just a third time they used Oreshniks, basically one per year.
Russia is using a lot of cheap drones, or low-cost missiles in these attacks as well. And as a byproduct, it forces Ukraine to keep a lot of air defense around Kiev - so making other parts of the country more vulnerable, and it depletes their air defense missiles/drones reserves.
And there is a zero risk of nuclear war, because Ukraine does not have nukes - so no nuclear retaliation when it comes to that.
So you can't simply compare the cost of missile to the cost of target. There's a lot of additional costs.
RisingDeadMan0@reddit
right, and so thats the point, they are showing they can hit whatever we want whenever they want. if they want. its a show of force, demoralise people.
Short_Ebb2076@reddit
It's already made and I doubt assembly and supply line can be repurposed for other stuff. If it had interchangeable components, sure, but it's ICBM, not much overlap with more conventional weapons.
kontemplador@reddit
If you look at the dozen of videos from the attack, hardly you can find active air defense, while Iskanders and Kh-101 were falling left and right.
Necroon@reddit
Ukraine claims they shoot down 90% - 95% of targets each time.
kontemplador@reddit
"claim" is the appropriate word.
Take the number of missiles used in the different strikes packages over the years and compare it to the available stockpiles of advanced air defenses and you would reach the conclusion that Ukraine would have consumed the whole stock of Patriots long ago.
L4r5man@reddit
You would think that if you assumed that Patriot was their primary air defence system. The truth is that Patriot systems only accounts for a small percentage of the missiles and drones that are neutralised.
juflyingwild@reddit
It depends. If it took out zilinski or his ilk, would it not stop the conflict in the eastern ukraine?
L4r5man@reddit
Why would it? This is not Zelensky's war. It concerns every Ukrainian. It would probably just piss them off even more and strengthen their resolve. There would be a real rally round the flag effect. Russia's invasion has affected every Ukrainian and most have lost someone they know to the war. If Ukraine was the aggressor it might have been different, but they are the victim, not the attacker.
juflyingwild@reddit
Unsure about that. Operation Aerodynamic is public now and on the CIA website. Presidential advisors and ex presidents (France, Germany) have stated that they had, in bad faith, signed the Minsk 2 agreement and continued to arm extremists in the ukraine.
Even encroachment by NATO when they were not to move an inch to the east according to US secretary of state Baker, is public news now.
It's like how the US invaded Iraq/Afghanistan preemptively, or Israel attacking Iran.
loggy_sci@reddit
Ridiculous Russian propaganda slop.
L4r5man@reddit
Mate, you've gone too far down the rabbit hole.
redditikonto@reddit
Why would an American misspell Zelenskyy's name like that? Surely you have seen it spelled in Latin alphabet before? And it definitely doesn't look like you're trying to phonetically spell an American newscaster's pronounciation of the name.
Chipay@reddit
I doubt it. Zelenskyy's successor, Ruslan Stefanchuk is a lot more anti-Russian than Zelesnkyy himself.
Talking about the minority rights in the context of the accession of Ukraine into the EU, Stefanchuk said in November 2023 that there cannot be a "Russian ethnic minority" in Ukraine and "if this nation does not show respect, but on the contrary - carries out aggression against Ukraine, then its rights should be infringed in this part.."
https://tsn.ua/en/ato/there-are-no-russian-national-minorities-in-ukraine-and-there-cannot-be-stefanchuk-2454550.html
Firecracker048@reddit
The entire war they started in a nutshell
nikmah@reddit
I’m confused, you are aware that the article mentions that the missile is nuclear capable? Put a nuclear warhead on the missile and it’s certainly going to be a destructive missile.
CJBill@reddit
Wunderwaffen that will turn the tide of a war aren't a new thing, this is just a 21st century V2
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They haven't even fitted them with conventional warheads yet, Putin is clearly more measured than people make him out to be.
I dont think Ukraine/EU/NATO going up the escalaiton ladder will have the intended affects.
siorge@reddit
why are you a Russian stooge?
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Why do you insist on going up the escalation ladder despite the objective realities?
siorge@reddit
objective realities which are?...
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Russia is the stronger nation and will win a conventional war.
Good luck finding hundreds of thousands of people in the west to push trenches for a pedo cabal.
People arent gonna fight for countries that failed them.
Maybe the immigrants will do the fighting?
fretnbel@reddit
Pedo cabal? Take a look at the Kremlin. Zelenski is a worm in comparison to the dirt putin and the oligarchs have been doing to Russia. Why are you blind to this?
Azzagtot@reddit
Putin and his mythical oligarchs are not press ganging their citizens into meatwave assaults to be later traded 1000 to 50.
Zelenskiy does it with full support of westerers.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Delusional Russia recruits the third worlders, gives them a week of training and sends them to the front line in rags lmao. They have uncs “fighting” barefoot with no comms
Azzagtot@reddit
That's western propaganda. We all heard how Russia run out of:
And yet somehow they are still fighting and taking Ukraine's land, despite western media claims, that grow more insane year by year.
Slippi_Fist@reddit
noone said russia has run out of those things.
you're making things up. we live in the real world.
russia can go home and everything stops. period. goodnight.
Azzagtot@reddit
If I would spend time looking for those western media articles and bring them here, will you apologise and say that you are living in western media bubble?
Slippi_Fist@reddit
enjoy potato matey
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
I’ve seen it on video lol
kapuh@reddit
Sure. They do that with foreigners instead.
For their own citizens ist's more of a ticket out of jail or poverty.
Because this is what you do if you are running a successful military operation. Nothing to see here.
fretnbel@reddit
Meatwave assaults. Isn’t that more of a Russian speciality?
bxzidff@reddit
If you read about Epstein's circle American oligarchs are not exactly the only ones. He directly asks former FSB agents for favors when a Russian woman threatened to expose what American oligarchs did to her. Then they helped him.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Pretty sure most of the people in the circle were Isrealis/bankers but nice misdirection
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Oh antisemitic too, cute
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Ultra orthodox jews are the loudest opponents of Isreali occupation and even the idea alone of a Jewish state.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
“Bankers”
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Did you read the files..?
Slippi_Fist@reddit
are you a 14 year old edgelord attending alpha male school by any chance?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Are you talking to yourself? Mr Illuminati
Slippi_Fist@reddit
no, at least 3 other of us are watching you perform poorly.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Perform what poorly?
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
No thank you buddy I’m not gonna be repeating antisemitic bs
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Typical american.. doesn't care about the biggest scandal in american history.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
I do care but what am I supposed to do about it?
Why aren’t Russians doing anything about Putin?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Isnt that what the 2nd ammendment is for? Why all those kids died in classrooms?
loggy_sci@reddit
Truly vile and hateful comment. The more you post the more insane you look.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Interesting not one single protest against Putin and you wanna try to clown on the US, lol
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Im not Russian (:
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Go bother them then
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Youre replying to me, glad my reply on the 2nd ammendment got you bothered though.
Hopefully bothered enough to actually use it for what it is for
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
You dimwits have been saying this for years now, it's never been true.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Whats been true..? Have you paid attention to Canadian recruiting woes?
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
Swing and a miss.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Huh..? Are you denying Canada is having trouble with their military..?
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
I'm saying you're a propagandist loser who is trying to change the subject because you can't back up your terrible arguments.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Lmao nice try
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Huh?
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
Why are pro-Rudsians almost always nudge nudge wink wink racists?
Immigrants in Europe truly live rent free in you guys' head.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
My family are immigrants, nothing racist about my comment, its just based in reality. Do you think a majority of immigrants or offspring of immigrants are going to fight for the current western order?
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
Why not? Swedish statistics beteau, SCB, sometimes do citizen polls to see how close they feel to their country, just for this reason.
Number of immigrants that feel a close connection to Sweden is, depending on what group, between 75 and 90%.
Llts of immigrants who did condcription when it was still voluntary as well. I did it back in 2007 and we had like 4 immigrant children in my group.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Sweden isnt like Canada or UK when it comes to defense, or even Germany. You are somewhat capable on your own.
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
But that's not what you asked. You asked if immigrants and their children would defend their new homeland. Numbers in Sweden show that they at lleast feel a close connection to their new home. I'm sure other countries are keeping track of this as well through polls and such.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Numbers in Canada and UK show otherwise, Sweden is an outlier was my point.
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
I see. Well there could be hundreds of variables affecting it. How immigrants are welcomed and treated would probably be a major factor, and what opportunities they have. I could imagine that if you for example migrated somewhere and were put straight into poverty your view on the new country would probably be more negative.
I refuse to believe that it's as simple as "immigrants will never fight for their new country", as line you said. It shows otherwise here, so the topic is not black and white.
fretnbel@reddit
And ignore the fact that Moscow is more a stan in some neighbourhoods than even Almaty
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
I often read in a certain famous sub covering the war, and it's so common among the people on Russia's side to basically write things like "Ukraine will have to take in immigrants from India after all this LOL!".
Like... Ok? Indians are great people. They have great work ethics and have always been very nice when I've interacted with them.
HopingillWin@reddit
Not to mention Russia is in possession of a very large nuclear arsenal.
fretnbel@reddit
They won’t use that. One thing goes wrong and poland gets hit and its ww3 boogaloo.
HopingillWin@reddit
Depends on how desperate they get I think
Chroma_primus@reddit
It's putin who is going up the escalation ladder abd bombibg innocent civilians.
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
Ah yes. Our leaders are constantly pining for war with them claiming stupid things like we must prepare for it by 2030 or around that, or that we're gonna have the strongest military on the continent to defeat them on the battlefield. We are openly supplying weapons to the other party with the intent to prolong the conflict rather than let the losing and more sufferring party come to the table for a negotiated settlement, with the realities on the ground in mind. And they're the ones going up the escalation ladder?
TrizzyG@reddit
This moron literally admitted to LARPing as a drone pilot because he fantasizes about helping Russia win the war meanwhile hes sitting comfortably in Europe lmao
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Realist ≠ Russian stooge
AnHerstorian@reddit
In what way is Ukraine going up the escalation ladder when they are the ones who have been invaded? Why does Russia have carte blanche to pound Ukraine every single day, but when it comes to the Ukrainians defending themselves, suddenly it's "escalation"?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Sending drones/missiles that are killing russians and now russian civilians is a very clear step.
Conflictingview@reddit
Russia began that practice by sending drones and missiles to Kyiv, so they committed the escalation. What you are seeing now is just Ukraine achieving parity.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Sending Russian drones to Kyiv is one thing. Sending German/British drones to Moscow is another.
You not being able to see the difference is you being purposely obtuse.
WhoAmIEven2@reddit
And if you open up a Russian drone, some parts will have a small text that says "made in China". What's your point?
imunfair@reddit
It's a bit different when the nation you're "helping" is a shambling corpse animated by your money, armed with your weapons, targeted by your mechanics, and kept in line by your oversight committees.
That's a puppet, not a self sufficient nation you're selling weapons to, and they take what we give them and jump when we say jump. That's why Russia changed their laws as a warning after our first attempt to use Ukraine for deep strikes with our own missiles. Then suddenly they "developed" their own drones manufactured by the west as a replacement to continue the campaign with a bigger fig leaf.
historicusXIII@reddit
But North Korean artillery is fine because of reasons?
Conflictingview@reddit
They send Iranian drones as well, so what's the difference again?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
No they dont, Russia sends Gerans which are built in house.
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
What do you think the Geran-2 drone is you buffoon?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
An iranian designed drone that is built in russia.
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
Ding ding ding, the first ones were not built in Russia btw. You're a shameless hypocrite.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/06/iran-says-it-shipped-drones-to-russia-before-ukraine-war.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They were sent before the war
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
They never stopped sending them until production began in Russia you lying sack of turds.
And when they were sent is not even relevant, how they were used is.
Conflictingview@reddit
And that has been true throughout this war? Of course not.
If Russia can procure and use munitions from its allies, so can Ukraine.
There is no escalation here. It's a tired narrative anyway.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Yes it has. They acquired the technology/designs from Iran before the invasion in 22. Isreali intelligence verified this
Not from the perspective of the Russians.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
lol I hope yall get blown up
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Why would Russia strike Macedonia?
somethingbrite@reddit
You are Canadian.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
People can have citizenship/passports/residences/businesses in multiple countries/continents.
somethingbrite@reddit
Unless you grew up in a place you ain't from that place and never will be.
You are a pathetic pretender.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
I read this like ten times and I have no clue what you meant.
I was born in Canada but raised in Macedonia, not sure why this makes a difference.
somethingbrite@reddit
If you actually grew up in Macedonia you would not be asking what it's like to move there from a western country IN ENGLISH on the r/mkd sub champ.
You would not need to ask because you would already know.
And you would not have asked in English.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
There is a vast difference between life in Macedonia two decades, when I lived there, and now.
Macedonia has the highest percentage of English speakers in the balkans so I feel pretty comfortable using english there and online.
loggy_sci@reddit
You’re not Macedonian you liar you’re a Russian stooge living in Canada and quite literally one of the most pathetic Russia simp who posts on this sub. You lie constantly about your connection to Ukraine and Russia. Full of shit edgelord from top to bottom
Big_Dinner3636@reddit
But Russians sending drones and missiles to kill Ukrainian civilians easnt one?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thats been happening since 2022
Big_Dinner3636@reddit
So you agree the Russians have been steadily escalating the war since 2022
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
If they have been doing that since 2022 thats not escalating is it? EU/NATO sending weapons to be used on attacks that kill civilians is a clear escalation.
Why are you being intentionally obtuse?
Big_Dinner3636@reddit
Was Russia using Oreshniks against civilians in 2022?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
No. Russia isnt even using Oreshniks against civilians in 2026.
Big_Dinner3636@reddit
The Kyiv Opera Theatre and the National Chornobyl Museum were military targets?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You think they used an Oresnik to hit those two sites...? Sources?
AnHerstorian@reddit
In what world are the Ukrainians not entitled to kill Russians? How is killing Russians in a war they started escalation?
'Now Russian civilians'
The Ukrainians have clearly made an effort to minimise civilians in their attacks. Most of their attacks on Russian factories and refineries have been carried out at night when they have been empty. The Ukrainian civilians alleged to have been killed in Russian-occupied Luhansk are the exception rather than the rule. If it did happen - and I am certainly not saying it didn't - then it was far more likely than not to be an accident. We can't say the same for the consistent Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets for the last 4 years.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
UK/Germany sending missiles/drones to be used on Russian land would have been suicidal during the cold war, countries understood hardlines.
Putin needs to make EU leaders realize what type of games they are playing.
AnHerstorian@reddit
The USSR using a WMD on Britain as Russia did in Salisbury - killing a British citizen and seriously injuring others - would have been unthinkable during the Cold War too.
Putin needs to understand his country isn't immune from the consequences of its actions.
SirLadthe1st@reddit
You can not be serious lmao, Russia is the one that attacked them, are you suggesting they should just show them the other cheek?
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Haha, that's such a delusional take when Russia has been bombing civilians en masse since day one of their invasion
SirStupidity@reddit
Conventional warheads is exactly what they were fitted with, unless you're implying they had no warheads...
Conventional warheads are just explosives (or not chemical and nuclear warheads).
He is trying to convince the russians that using a few of these missiles without arming them with nuclear warheads is the same as launching a nuke. Which is of course silly unless he's firing thousands of those.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They arent loaded with anything but "dummy rounds" the kinetic force and layer of plasma that develops on reentry is enough on its own.
SirStupidity@reddit
Lol why would someone spend so much money on an ICBM and not even arm it with a warhead. What are you talking about?
calmdownmyguy@reddit
They haven't fitted the with conventional warheads because it's a prototype weapon and russian engineers can't figure out how to make it work.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the laugh
calmdownmyguy@reddit
You should be thanking the russian military. They've provided four and a half years of comedy.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Taking on an entire coaltion and winning is pretty comedic but probably not for the reasons you think it is.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Ukraine has been receiving table scraps with heavy restrictions on how they can be used. It's funny that russia believed Europe would just sit and watch as they ramped up their military and started trying to expand their empire to west. More stupid than funny, but either way..
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
They never could have thought that EU/NATO would sacrifice millions of Ukrainians just to buy themselves time.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
They didn't expect russia to murder millions of people just to end up weaker, poorer,and more diminished internationally, which was dumb concerning that it's not hard to read about russian history l.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Putin is making an extra 150mil per day from the oil prices due to your war the past 3 months, how exactly are they poorer?
How are they weaker if they are fighting an entire coaltion and winning? Even America is copying their designs with the new Lucas program.
Russia has been at war for 4 years and no signs of giving up, America had to surrender after 6 weeks.
simplexrofl@reddit
Did you apply any logic to this statement at all? You can win a war and be weaker at its end.
The drones built with Nvidia Jetsons and (formerly) Starlink? Russians took an Iranian design and iterated on its electronics first and foremost. The most revolutionary aspect of the design is its price and ease of manufacture. That's what the US copied, not whatever bells and whistles Russia tacked on afterwards.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Putting 5000 lb of HE on a missile will never be as devastating as a nuclear strike. That's just nonsense.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
If you consider the initial blast, nukes arent that powerful at wiping out formations of troops. The Americans did tests and came to the conclusion that multiple tactical nukes would be needed to wipe out a medium sized formation of troops.
Conventional weapons are more practical than most people make them out to be.
somethingbrite@reddit
You could not be more wrong.
Cold war NATO doctrine actually included the use of tactical nucelar weapons against armor and troop formations. Within this doctrine this was expected to take place if conventional methods had not stopped a Warsaw pact advance after 2 weeks.
At first more conventional tactical nuclear weapons were held in stock for exactly this purpose. (and in fact some of these are still held in stock in Europe and Turkey) It's also what drove the development of the neutron bomb (conceived late 50's, deployed mid 1970's)
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Could not be more wrong? The US's own tests describe needing more than one nuke for a formation of troops. Youre saying the US is wrong.
somethingbrite@reddit
The US developed and deployed both regular tactical nuclear weapons AND the neutron bomb for use against Warsaw pact armor and troops in the European Theatre.
They are still deployed in various Nato bases in Europe and Turkey.
So yes. You are wrong.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
You seem to be agreeing with me without realizing it.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Nukes can be replaced by guided conventional weapons, but oreshnik warheads are not guided. Again, you are putting ~5000 lb of HE into a 50n circle. It's just not that powerful.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
The kinetic force without any weapons attached alone is 450kg of tnt, so adding weapons would make it 5-10x more effective.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
That no how explosions work.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
We need to give Ukraine some nukes and let it ride
Chipay@reddit
I legitimate wonder what the Russian reaction would be if the US modernized some patriots and told everyone they'd be giving them to Ukraine for testing purposes.
Obviously it'd be a very very very very very stupid thing to do, but I wonder if that'd be enough for the Russians to chicken out?
alkbch@reddit
Absolutely not
kontemplador@reddit
Why would you do that? At those velocities and temperatures kinetic and thermal energy far surpasses the energy provided by explosives.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
The kinetic energy is equivalent to a 1000lb bomb
So equipping it with conventional warheads would in theory make it more effective, i dont know what the maximum payload is for each reentry vehicle
kontemplador@reddit
Maximum estimated weight of the individual warheads is 250kg, but many suspect that it is in the range 50-80kg. Notice that individual warheads heat easily to 3000 C degrees, providing substancial thermal energy, depending on the material. You also needs to consider the phase change once the warheads hits the ground. All in all, you don't need explosives.
somethingbrite@reddit
Because annexing a sovereign states territory. starting a proxy war against that state and then invading it and raining down icbm's on its cities is the very definition of "measured"?
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Yes. Measured to a fault. He should have started with raining icbms in 2014.
kapuh@reddit
I wonder how uninformed or dense you have to be mid 2026 to not laugh at this.
The tiny shithole captain, who just ran the poorest parade since Russia exists because of lack of material, in his benevolence, did not spare one of his endless warheads and so chose to spare trauma to the Ukrainian people!
Hail Putler the Tiny!
FIFA Peace Prize is on it's way.
QuestionableEthics42@reddit
Oh. You. Fucking russian bootlicker.
KwHFatalityxx@reddit
Yeah yeah…the real world barely notices Shitshow of a situation in the middle of bumfuck nowhere where a few million men are slaughtering each other as if it’s a religious decree They can’t be helped both sides
Kamay1770@reddit
What a weird thing to say. Russia literally invaded Ukraine.
Are you saying they shouldn't be defending themselves?
Would you do nothing if someone invaded the UK?
KwHFatalityxx@reddit
Yes Russia decided to invade and clearly that was something they thought about for quite a while and took very seriously whereas we in the west only seemed to care in the last couple of months before it happened as if everything would just continue to go our way forever
As I said….shitshow no matter how much we do to help
Kamay1770@reddit
The West was trying to brokerage peace and prevent anything happening, for months before the invasion. The build up of troops was known and tracked via satellite for months.
Russia literally said 'we're not invading, this is just a training exercise and it's all western hysteria'.
Then the West immediately condemned, sent aid and shared Intel with Ukraine. Then we continued to supply, train and provide aid.
So I don't really know what you're saying about 'the last couple months'.
It's also weird you're saying it's a shitshow on both sides, when you also admit Russia invaded a sovereign nation, especially when that nation gave up their nukes on the promise of never being invaded by Russia, who then broke that treaty.
Also what does 'thought about for quite a while and took very seriously mean' is that some kind of 'ah it's OK they invaded because they thought about it'? And I think it's funny you say 'took very seriously' when they had a 30km column of vehicles stuck without fuel out of Belarus to begin, lost various planes full of VDV into the sea and failed to shock and awe Hostomel with career contract soldiers against UKR national guard. And then to have called it a 3 day special military operation. How is any of that serious.
Not to even talk about the horrors of Bucha etc by Russian troops. Command applaud it, it's their doctrine. I'm actually quite outraged you're from the UK and have these opinions.
Azzagtot@reddit
It did not.
https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-opens-up-on-ukraine-putin-and-her-legacy/a-62052345
In fact they put a lot of effort to start this war, starting with Ukraine's coup. Everyone knew what would happen if Ukraine would try to drop neutrality, don't act surprised.
CurrentlyTakenName@reddit
"Ah, curse the evil west! Tricking us into pouring soldiers into our neighbor's home and killing their people."
Just own up to your invasion already.
Azzagtot@reddit
What's wrong with that?
Ukraine fucked around and now in a process of not finging out, but dying as a state.
I am okay with it, it should not exist at all. Ukrainian culture will be preserved in Russia.
I, personally, can't wait for pruges that would follow. Imagine tears of TCC "workers" when they will be prosecuted and westerners tears and impotent rage on "human rights violations", lol.
CurrentlyTakenName@reddit
So you think there's nothing wrong with going into your neighbor's home and murdering them? And you wish to delete a country?
Thank you for your honesty comrade. These are very interesting insights.
Azzagtot@reddit
Yep. If your neighbor joins agressive military alliance made for fighting your country, despite your warnings - it's okay to preemptively disarm him and beat sense into him.
CurrentlyTakenName@reddit
Oh those ungrateful neighbors, what could possibly compel them to be afraid of you and do that... You're right, there's just simply no other option than to invade and kill them (and get thousands of your own killed but it's okay because it's for a noble cause).
Azzagtot@reddit
And what happened to everyone else?
CurrentlyTakenName@reddit
Something called putting soldiers in independent countries and shooting the people there.
Georgia in 2008 or Ukraine again with Crimea in 2014
loggy_sci@reddit
This is despicable. Cheering for the slaughter of Russians because you’re a vile campist and Russian imperialist.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Being rulled by a russian pupet is not neutrality. Ukraine has the right to trade with the EU if they want to. The difference is that now Ukraine is trading weapons that are being used to eliminate invaders instead of trading agricultural goods.
Azzagtot@reddit
That's why they now have a western puppet that press gangs ukrainians to die in a ditch.
Now life in Ukraine is much, much better that it was during corrupt and ebil Yanukovich rule. Finally, ukrainians can breathe free in their open air prison with barbed wire on it's border, so they won't escape this new free world they've stepped in.
loggy_sci@reddit
Azzagtot is a Kremlin mouthpiece and anti-west campist that posts Russian propaganda slop.
Azzagtot@reddit
I am glad that my comments burned you so bad you now remember my name :\^)
Now, do you have anything to say besides ad hominem attacks? If not - you should crawl back to r/worldnews and tape your propaganda bubble.
loggy_sci@reddit
I don’t post there. Your name is memorable because of how absurd and delusional your comments are. Thanks for the laugh.
Azzagtot@reddit
It's a joy really, to talk to a brain dead westerners and then bring some good old screenshots to a discord.
As I said multiple times before - thank God for this free zoo.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Bro is flexing about his social life being an online circle jerk
somethingbrite@reddit
Which coup would that be?
NetworkLlama@reddit
They're part of the group that is convinced that Euromaidan was a CIA-led plot that duped millions of innocent Ukrainians into overthrowing the government to force Ukraine into a pro-West alignment, and that had they not gotten involved, Russia and Ukraine would be allies right now.
Azzagtot@reddit
It was, and it's funny how all those years you deny the obvious.
Chroma_primus@reddit
The article you posted provides oroof that the west trued to broker peace with russia.
"It's an objective breach of all international laws and of everything that allows us in Europe to live in peace at all. If we start going back through the centuries and arguing over which bit of territory should belong to whom, then we will only have war. That's not an option whatsoever."
The first 3 month of the war ukraine received no aid and dought of the russians alone because most in europe though they were going to collapse any moment now.
It's just that putin heavily miscalculated and now this war is a shining example of sunken cost fallacy.
NetworkLlama@reddit
Ukraine received aid, but it was very limited. Javelin missiles, some ammunition. Nothing heavy, though.
Chroma_primus@reddit
Oh i didn't know that thank you.
Kamay1770@reddit
So Merkel = the entire west?
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
"Both sides"?
KwHFatalityxx@reddit
One sided wars generally end quickly
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
BoTh siDeS
KwHFatalityxx@reddit
Russia is wrong but hey have a side too Every war does
bxzidff@reddit
The real world? Is Ukraine and Russia not real?
somethingbrite@reddit
No. Russia is not real. It's a territory inhabited by supremacist orcs who think that if somebody speaks Russian in another country that therefore said country belongs to Russia. They are lead by the Midget supremacist orc king Vlad.
Oatcake47@reddit
Partaly true, no world leader thought that Putler would be so fucking stupid…
People called me nuts when I said he was going for it due to small dick energy.
Just like TACO in chief, they both had a rigged game to enjoy and managed to break it, then cried foul.
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
Everybody has been assuring me for 5 years that Russia has no further means of escalating, but I guess that’s not true then?
Ok_Fox9820@reddit
Bombing Kyiv is escalation in your eyes?
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
There are degrees in bombing a city you know?
Empty-Discount5936@reddit
They absolutely can't flatten Kiyv without using nukes which would result in their own destruction as well.
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
Explain how nuking Kyiv would result in their own destruction,
TrizzyG@reddit
Is Russia ready to die for Kyiv? Also a valid question you should ask. Pro-Russia redditors obviously aren't a relevant species so they can claim all they want, however, even Russian leadership isnt as deranged as those curious specimens.
Empty-Development298@reddit
In short, the global order would be forced to neutralize the entire conventional russian military or risk independent countries getting away with nuking without consequence. They'd get immediately dumped by their allies like China and India as part of their red line.
Ukraine would have all restrictions on using western weapons removed.
I'd imagine retaliating forces would immediately target all known russian nuke launch sites, Individual countries would be at highest possible nuclear readiness level, etc.
imunfair@reddit
"Ah that guy just nuked someone, you know what I should do? Go attack him because he totally won't nuke me too for a far more severe aggression than the guy he just nuked!"
What would actually happen is everyone would be shocked and issue strongly worded warnings in the UN in an attempt not to look weak in the face of a move that it's impossible to one-up without signing their own death warrant. It's the ultimate escalate-to-deescalate as the west likes to say.
Empty-Development298@reddit
Ah, I see you well versed in dealing with nuclear responses.
loggy_sci@reddit
>Are you ready to die for Ukraine
This is more Russian slop that they’ve been saying since the start of this war whenever they escalate
Brave-Battle-2615@reddit
France
benkkelly@reddit
The Russians wouldn't flatten Kyiv any more then the Israelis would flatten Bethlehem or Jerusalem or the Iranians would Mecca.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Lmfao, no. No. They absolutely cannot.
elihu@reddit
Their total inventory of Oreshniks is thought to be 3 or 4. Or make that 2 or 3 now.
According to the article, this is the third time Russia has used Oreshniks in this war. So, it's not really an escalation, but rather a weapon they use every once in a long while.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
No one knows how many they have.
For example, Iran's arsenal has been destroyed 5 times over now yet they still continue to achieve second strike capability.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Russia had been promoting the oreshnik missile as a wonder weapon for years and they keep blowing up on the launch pad. They finally achieved thier first successful test launch on November 21st of 2024. It is still a prototype weapon and the russian government hasn't even started serial production. The russian governments own stated goal is production of 5 oreshnik missiles a year when they do begin serial production.
Trump lying about achievements in Iran has no effect on russian inability to produce high numbers of oreshnik missiles.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Funny how we pick and choose what we believe coming from Russia.
loggy_sci@reddit
You believe literally anything the Russian MoD tells you
calmdownmyguy@reddit
I believe that 5 a year is the best case scenario for russia because they can't produce the parts they need.
PurpleMclaren@reddit (OP)
Source?
calmdownmyguy@reddit
They've used 3vof them total. If you had better reading comprehension you would have noticed that I said "take scantions more seriously." Russia might be able to get a miniscule number of parts through third and forth parties, but that's why I mentioned stronger scantion enforcement. Don't worry though, russian can keep sending impoverished villagers to get picked off by drones before they ever get close enough to even see the contact line.
Canadian_Border_Czar@reddit
Is everybody in the room with you right now?
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
No it seems they all ran away.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
Negotiations have repeatedly failed thanks in large part to Trump delegating that duty to his nitwit son-in-law but also because russia's demands are unreasonable and virtually guarantee that Russia will resume the war from a stronger position in a few years. This won't end until Putin dies. And I don't mean Ukraine is going to steamroll their way to Moscow, I literally mean no deal will be worth anything so long as he's in charge of Russia.
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
And peace treaty can literally state that a new attack on Ukraine will be treated by NATO as an attack on NATO.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
NATO involvement is another red line for Russia.
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
This war has been a disaster for Russia, it hasn’t occurred to you that they may actually not have much desire for a second round?
Prosthemadera@reddit
If they didn't have desire for war they would have STOPPED by now instead of continuing to murder people. What the hell, man, seriously.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
Has it occurred to Putin? The best strategic option for Russia at every moment of the war since the beginning has been to just stop. He does not give a shit. He is the absolute ruler of his country and is utterly indifferent to the suffering of his people. He only wants to rule and empire and anything that doesn't lead in that direction is irrelevant.
Prosthemadera@reddit
You actually believe that Russia would agree to such a treaty? Wow. You are so naive, no wonder you think that "just negotiate bro" is the solution.
Prosthemadera@reddit
No, they are not real. You are imagining what "everyone" told you.
More fairy tales. The end to this insanity is Putin stopping. I guess that didn't occur to you because you were too busy imagining what "everyone" said.
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
By all means let’s try to end this disaster by hoping for something impossible.
UndocumentedMartian@reddit
Some of those people/bots also expected Iran to roll over after the first Amercian attack.
TigerX1@reddit
People are losing touch of reality when talking about Russia and Ukraine, last week I was called a russian bot for saying that because Russia is losing they become more desperate and dangerous when talking about the nuclear exercises
Tactical_Moonstone@reddit
Yes, we know Russia is going to be desperate. We also know we cannot let Putin benefit from nuclear blackmail.
What you are implying by talking about Putin's desperation is that you want the rest of the world to give in to Putin's nuclear blackmail and agree to terms that only benefit Putin.
That's what made people think you are a Russian bot. And honestly, calling you a bot would have been the least harsh thing you would have been called in that situation.
TigerX1@reddit
What? I never said I want to give in Putin's Blackmail, for me go in there and storm Moscow only way to get this shit show over.
But I'm not gonna pretend that he can't make things worse than they already are, either Putin dies before the war ends or he will escalate, and the more he stays in Ukraine the more we are to see an escalation.
What I said is that the nuclear exercises are not.nothing, if Putin is not taken out from power he will use tactical nukes before he gives up on Ukraine.
Tactical_Moonstone@reddit
If he wants to make things worse he would have done it already. That's the entire flaw with your analysis.
Remember that while he has the figurative finger on the trigger, the people who still fire the actual missiles are not him. He's not the one at the Topol-M launchers pressing the button to make the missiles fly. The people who press the buttons and turn the keys still need to buy in to ending the world as they know it.
A measured escalation of violence or a sudden escalation of violence are not going to matter to a Putin determined to press the nuclear button. He's still going to press it.
TigerX1@reddit
No, he is going to use nukes if all other options are exhausted. Do you even understand what escalation is?
By your logic, if he never used a nuke since he stepped into power then he never will, as if not firing nukes on first day is a guarantee they never will in the future.
He is running out of options while trying to wait out Ukraine suportes to become exhausted. If he thinks the waiting is not going to pay he will use a Tactical Nuke in logistical bases and drone factories away from urban centers, maybe a port. And I think NATO wouldn't do anything major about it either, so he might get away with it.
IMO they should start planning for the Invasion of Moscow back in 2014, but it seems nobody wants to start WW3 over some Ukranian kids.
Tactical_Moonstone@reddit
Your huge flaw in the analysis is thinking he can do everything alone.
He can order everything under the sun, but ultimately the trigger pullers are not him. He is not going into the field and putting generals to task to force them to exhaust themselves because he physically cannot get there to order the missiles fired if the generals don't want to end the world.
Look at what happened when he tried to do a limited mobilisation, and look at how easily he backed off after seeing the consequences of announcing it. That's a lever of escalation he can use that is much easier than a nuclear strike, and yet it was still politically untenable for him.
Once he breaks the nuclear taboo, it's no longer just Russia's problem with Europe or America. China has already publicly announced their disapproval of any nuclear action within this war, and I am very sure Putin is well aware of it.
TigerX1@reddit
Yeah, let's count that the guys trained to use the nukes decide to be court matialled. Sounds like a good plan, buddy
Empty-Development298@reddit
I don't know why you wrote this. Are you not familiar with DEFCOM or CASD?
Tactical_Moonstone@reddit
Court martialled or ending the world? What a decision right? How about we ask that Soviet officer who didn't press the nuke button?
If they are going to fire the nukes that means two things:
Their world at least ends. Their last allies abandon them for breaking the nuclear taboo. Putin and Russia are resigned to eternal degradation, if not complete destruction.
They lose their last vestige of perceived moral superiority against America ("at least we didn't fire nukes in anger!"). Say what you want about Russian propaganda, but there is no lying your way out of the nuclear craters you created.
Chipay@reddit
This isn't the first bombing of Kiev and it's not the first Oreshnik to hit Ukraine.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
This isn't really an escalation. Russia has been shooting missiles at civilians since day 4 of their 3 day smo.
Nerevarcheg@reddit
Achieving nothing, except burying another hundreds of millions $ in the ground. Which could've been used for upgrading quality of life of russians, but it's never the case for dictatorships..
Treinrukker@reddit
Sure buddy, factories are burning in kyiv, you can literally see it in nasa firms maps
somethingbrite@reddit
The nazi's made factories burn in London.... is that your point?
fifthflag@reddit
Sure, because the British industrial might took down the nazis.
imunfair@reddit
That's why Zelensky keeps trying to trigger something catastrophic enough to get the US to ride in and win the war for him. He knows boots on the ground are the only chance of success so his strategy is just delay delay delay hoping the inevitable is averted by a miracle.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
So how much UK territory did the Nazis take and hold or why do you think of all the comparisons that is the most fitting one?
somethingbrite@reddit
How much territory did the Nazi's manage to hold? Eventually none.
cmrd_msr@reddit
Ну, почему бы не тренироваться на Киеве? Все лучше, чем долбить ракетами в полигон.
Nerevarcheg@reddit
Согласен, сейчас наступает ваше время. Убийц, психопатов и моральных уродов. Перекат истории..
cmrd_msr@reddit
Если бы переворот в 2014 не удался- ничего этого бы не было. Если бы не было бы АТО и с донецкими бы договорились полюбовно- этого бы не было. Если бы уже после начала Киев не повелся на слова Джонсона и выполнил бы парафированный Стамбул- этого бы не было.
Ну, раз уж вы это допустили, теперь не нойте.
Nerevarcheg@reddit
"Если бы вы не скидывали наше марионеточное правительство, то нам бы и не пришлось возвращать вас в нашу "сферу влияния" силой".
Luesal2@reddit
That was legitimate government most in the east voted for. The real Ukraine sadly died in 2014.
Wankstain8@reddit
What did Lavrov say? I don’t keep up to date on the news really.
cmrd_msr@reddit
Back at the beginning of spring (or at the end of winter), he made it clear that the Americans had set a deadline for a peaceful settlement until summer.
calmdownmyguy@reddit
Believing something Lavrov said that the trump administration said has so many layers of non credibility it's hard to even quantify.
Wankstain8@reddit
Oh ok. Thanks
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
If Russia didn't invade, it wouldn't happen.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
Ok Ivan chill
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
The "Donetsk people"? You mean Anton Raevsky, Igor "Strelkov" Girkin, Pavel Gubarev, Alexey Milchakov, Vladislav Surkov, Dmitry Rogozin?
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Did you get exposed to too much lead during your childhood or why the sociopathy?
cmrd_msr@reddit
I've been following the situation in Donetsk since 2014.
And I remember how the Kyivites behaved when they were the strongest in that conflict. There was no mercy. They deserved to end up in the shoes of the weak.
Gruejay2@reddit
Genuine question: do you think the strengthens or weakens the resolve of those opposing you?
cmrd_msr@reddit
You can see their determination in the daily bus videos.
I am confident that destroying the enemy's material base brings peace closer.
Gruejay2@reddit
Russia has the ability to unilaterally end the war today.
Grievance doesn't make people respect you. I have a deep respect for Russian culture, but I am rapidly approaching the point where I would be happy to see the Russian Federation disintegrate.
cmrd_msr@reddit
Nope. Stopping the SVO without achieving its goals would be a grave folly and a waste of resources.
The SVO's goals will be achieved, even if it means destroying half of Ukraine. That's neither good nor bad, it's a fact.
Sharlach@reddit
Sunk cost fallacy. This whole war is already a waste of resources and the more you commit, the bigger waste it will be.
yes comrade, of course. And Kyiv will fall in three days! Still as delusional as ever, I see.
Gruejay2@reddit
All this tells me is that you're an extremist who cannot be reasoned with.
If you can't be stopped by words, we will find other ways.
cmrd_msr@reddit
ok. We confronted Britain when it was far more dangerous than it has become. Not for the first time.
Gruejay2@reddit
You didn't do anything. You're on Reddit, not manning the guns of Balaklava.
It's very simple: stop spreading your cancer, and everyone else will leave you alone. If you want to keep parasitically living off Western wealth, then you need to play ball.
datNomad@reddit
How about we all deserve some peace.
Fearless-Feature-830@reddit
You’re weird
Oatcake47@reddit
Yet here you are on Reddit, tsk tsk comrade you should be going to your local recruitment office. The president needs you more than Reddit does.
Glòir dhan Ucràin! 🫶🏻
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
A future so hopeless and a mindset so deranged they think the only way for them to stay relevant in the world is by trying to drag the world down with them. Well, the future wouldn't have been hopeless if it wasn't for their mindset
this-aint-Lisp@reddit
“But when will Russia finally give up” asks increasingly nervous person.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Nervous? Stop projecting
Even if Russia would impossibly win the whole war tomorrow they've doomed their future and are in a position that's so much worse compared to before that it's not even funny
heckin_miraculous@reddit
How so? Economically? Psychologically? Politically? I can imagine but I want to hear your thoughts if you're willing to share.
Pretend I know nothing.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
They're a petro-state (with all the ills that brings ie centralization of power and economy) that have ostracized themselves from the innovative part of the world that they relied on, and have made their already significant demographic problems massively worse by throwing so many young men in the meat grinder.
Having siloviki in charge of a nation state is just not viable long term. Cooperate > defect in an iterative world
heckin_miraculous@reddit
Thank you
Gruejay2@reddit
Nobody respects the constant grievance narrative.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Germany and US don't need Russia to be "dragged down". Their government have been doing it themselves.
ThreeMountaineers@reddit
Yes, we should always be critical of our governments. They have made many crucial blunders such as thinking that post-soviet Russia would redeem themselves
mrgoobster@reddit
It's hard to quantify how much damage Trump has really done, because it's spread across so many categories. No question that it's happening, though.
YourFuture2000@reddit
By the downvotes I am receiving, most people, só far, think it is Russia that us dragguing US, Germany and other countries down.
mrgoobster@reddit
Russia is certainly dragging various countries down, but it's also true that the US and Germany would be managing it on their own.
YourFuture2000@reddit
It is not just dictatorship. Germany right now is investing heavy in the army while cutting social benefits, and the government wants take rights from workers away.
The US in an other case. Well, all countries that have been investing in wars since ever.
spudmarsupial@reddit
Anyone in Europe who isn't investing in the military is delusional.
Removing worker rights is idiotic. Rich people think they magically generate wealth by dint of their superiority, literally all of it comes from the workers.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
What’s delusional is ignoring how Europe has the NATO protective umbrella, combined NATO countries are responsibility for the majority of global military spending. So against whom is that military behemoth supposed to arm up even more? An alien invasion? Seriously, who is that mysterious foe for whom more than half of global military spending ain’t enough to deter/beat back?
NATO occupied Afghanistan, Western troops are in Iraq right now as part of a NATO mission, all from an allegedly “defensive” alliance that in its whole existence didn’t have a single actually defensive deployment on alliance territory, it’s all been exclusively “interventions” far away from NATO territory I.e. Libya, Afghanistan and even Iraq.
If NATO is so undersupplied and undermanned, then how about we bring back home all those many NATO soldiers from deployments on non-NATO territory?
Lyricanna@reddit
The United States of America.
No seriously, while the invasion of Ukraine as a wake up call for NATO to actually get their logistics and ammo production in order, the increased militarization is entirely due to the possibility of a hostile America. Between the concerningly actionable threats of an invasion of Greenland and the USA enacting military operations and starting wars without any warning that cause global issues, its blatantly obvious that some sort of military force is required to safeguard the interests of Europe and Canada. And as another poster pointed out, NATO was always about countering the aggression of a neighboring global superpower. I just doubt that the people who formed the alliance initially would have ever fathomed the USA being the aggressive superpower needing to be checked.
Chipay@reddit
Don't forget that Trump actively threatened with NATO withdrawal if Europe didn't rearm during his first term.
US leadership is experiencing some cognitive dissonance where it both wants a 'strong' Europe while also wanting to boss the continent around. It can't have both, and it'll only get worse as Atlanticists are removed from power in the coming elections.
Chipay@reddit
NATO is dead in the water under Trump, that Europe seeks to spend even half of what the US is spending on defense after threatening annexation of European soil is the most logical policy in recorded history.
Maeglom@reddit
NATO has always been about countering Russian aggression.
YourFuture2000@reddit
Except Russia?
mrgoobster@reddit
For now. Rightly or wrongly, the ruling class expects automation to make workers obsolete in the near future.
MrTrollMcTrollface@reddit
Germany's case is different, the vast majority of eligible voters aren't working and are non productive.
Actual working people have very little political weight in Germany, it's almost like Dubai and Qatar if you think about it.
neatdude73@reddit
They killed at least two people, injured dozens more, damaged residential areas, factories and police stations and after the attack people have stated that they can't afford to be in kyiv since the building they did their job in is now gone. Russia definitely inflicted damage, you can argue whether using a BM was worth it though.
psi-@reddit
If they bought a business in Kyiv for half the money, then shuttered it down, that would have 10x effect vs. what's happened here. They're pathetic.
KACTPATOP1337@reddit
If it achived nothing than show us buildings after that missile maybe? After 3 hits of Oreshnik - 0 photos of hit areas, why? Maybe because it's totally destroyed?
Those_Silly_Ducks@reddit
The money was gone when the missle was delivered.
rookieoo@reddit
Wha did the revolution achieve? They turned around and started bombing their own citizens for wanting to separate from the new government. That’s just as bad as what Russia is doing now
YourFuture2000@reddit
People here are campist using the war as circus for them to cheer and attack "teams". They don't actually care about people. In fact, people here have been using the death of people as winning point to cheer for their "team". It is a kind of demagogue nationalist mindset.
Kelak1@reddit
Not just dictatorships. The same thing has been going on in the US for decades.
gattaaca@reddit
Yeah wtf at singling out dictatorships, the USA has and continues to do that on a much larger scale than Russia ever did
_Dominox_@reddit
Turns out, if you're deliberately and proudly attacking kids you'll get consequences. And now the best cope that pro-ua can have is "they burned a lot of money". Yeah, no shit, that's the cost we'll gladly pay if Ukrainians will learn their lesson from this. If they don't, well, we'll pay that cost again.
I922sParkCir@reddit
Russia released the names of those killed, and they aren’t kids. The deaths from Russian media:
Погибшие: 1. Погрибниченко Анна Андреевна 01.11.2006 г.р., 2. Сердюк Дарья Сергеевна 18.04.2007 г.р. 3. Прудникова Яна Владимировна 11.12.2006 г.р. 4. Животикова Ирина Денисовна, 03.12.2006 г.р. 5. Мартимьянова Елена Владимировна, 06.09.2006 г.р. 6. Бережная Татьяна Сергеевна, 15.07.2006 г.р. 7. Ковтун Артем Сергеевич, 02.02.2006 г.р. 8. Бугаков Максим Викторович, 03.12.2005 г.р. 9. Постовец Александр Александрович, 18.12.2004 г.р. 10. Фень София Олеговна, 30.03.2007 г.р. 11. Чекрыгина Алина Александровна, 27.04.2007 г.р. 12. Дащенко Вероника Александровна, 15.09.2006 г.р. 13. Заратуйченко Виктория Олеговна, 21.09.2007 г.р. 14. Василенко Анастасия Алексеевна, 18.07.2007 г.р. 15. Буткова Александра Вячеславовна, 17.01.2007 г.р. 16. Протасова Александра Алексеевна, 11.11.2007 г.р. 17. Терещенко Оксана Алексеевна, 14.09.2003 г.р. 18. Брюховецкая Алиса Владимировна, 16.01.2007 г.р. 19. Коваленко Анастасия Андреевна, 08.05.2007 г.р. 20. Герасименко Таисия Павловна, 18.05.2008 г.р. 21. Ковпак Александра Александровна, 03.06.2007 г.р.
The youngest among them is 18 years old. Russia initially said the deaths were of 14 year olds. I’m inclined to believe Ukraine and that this was military training. Ukraine doesn’t have the munitions to waste on targets that don’t hurt the Russian war effort.
Luesal2@reddit
Those are literally all kids.
I922sParkCir@reddit
18 year olds are not kids. They are military aged men. War is ugly. War is hell. I don’t like this, but this is the situation that Russia has created.
_Dominox_@reddit
Yeah sure, they've killed teenagers (in college, no shit) if it'll make you feel more selfrighteous and will somehow stop them being kids. 18 of them were girls since they were studying to become teachers.
Jesus, and you have the audacity to call us orks.
I922sParkCir@reddit
I’m not calling you an orc.
When military and civilian infrastructure are intermingled it becomes a legitimate military target. The attacker must take necessary steps to minimize casualties, but this isn’t a highly capable nation like the US using bomber released guided munitions to hit a room in a building. Ukraine has one way attack drones and relatively accurate ballistic/cruise missiles. It’s a huge step up from “destroy half a city to hit a factory” of the Second World War, but it’s far from ideal. If Ukraine wants to hit a military target that is very near civilian infrastructure, that civilian infrastructure is likely to get hit as well.
If the Russians don’t like it, they can pack their bags and leave Ukraine. If Russians move back to the 2014 borders, the Ukrainians would stop defending against them.
The Russians are in a difficult position because they are running out of air defense while at the same time Ukraine’s deep strike capabilities are growing. Russia’s military infrastructure that far east has been considered safe for so long that they haven’t taken the precautions to distance civilians. I’m sure Russia will start taking those steps now. They’ve already restricted civilian traffic on R-280. That’s helpful to Ukraine too, they know that all vehicles on that highway are military.
Russia just needs to adapt to this new reality where they are less capable offensively and defensively.
_Dominox_@reddit
Except there were none military infrastructure in that pedagogical college but sure, keep telling yourself lies if it keep you feel better.
If you want to look what actual attack on military infrastructure looks like, look on today's attack with yet again minimal civilian losses and destruction of sbu and army headquarters, military airbase and defence factory.
I922sParkCir@reddit
I don’t get why you’re using this language. I don’t feel strongly in any particular way.
Russia and Ukraine have already lost this war. Neither state can be made whole. It’s just going to get worse and worse for Russia since they are now at the culmination of insufficient armor, air defense, and military recruitment to make any real progress. Ukraine and Russia both appear to accept the trade off losing a few kilometers of land at the expense of 10,000 Russian men. Russia is sacrificing its future and getting very little in return.
More men are dying than Russia can recruit. Soldiers in technical fields are being used as infantry in attacks without armored support. Supply lines, factories, and petroleum facilities are getting targeted and hit in greater numbers to cause greater effects. Russia is being positioned in a way to make less weapons, recruit fewer military personnel and make less money as the war progresses. Expect more attacks in populated Russian areas.
The war is getting more expensive for the now struggling Russian economy as Ukraine continues to be funded and armed by the resource rich west.
CrazyBelg@reddit
Luckily Russia has never deliberately attacked civilians.
_Dominox_@reddit
In yesterday's deliberate attack on a pedagogical college student dorm ukraine killed 21 kids. In today's oh so barbaric and vicious retaliation strike, we had killed 2 civilians so far. So yeah, we're having the moral highground as always.
Chipay@reddit
Sounds like Russia needs better air defence
_Dominox_@reddit
Sure. You know the best air defense? Air attack :)
Chipay@reddit
Aren't most Ukrainian drone factories dispersed across Ukraine and Europe these days? Seems like attacking the capital won't meaningfully prevent the death of future Russian children.
_Dominox_@reddit
It may have, if Ukraine will learn today's lesson of not attacking kids. It's only up to them.
Chipay@reddit
Unlikely, that apartment building being levelled after the parade caused more civilian deaths than this strike.
_Dominox_@reddit
It's almost like, despite allegations, we're not aiming for genocide, but strikes factories and actual military objects. Should we change it?
Chipay@reddit
Well, it hasn't stopped Russian children from getting bombed, apparently. So I think the Russian military should work on that.
Vassago81@reddit
Ukrainian childrens, the school that was bombed is in Ukraine.
CrazyBelg@reddit
Okay, but you guys have been bombing city centres for over 3 years at this point. I know the average Russian is not that aware but if you are posting here surely you know that you guys started all this and are currently still doing more heinous acts than Ukraine.
_Dominox_@reddit
Yeah, and we will continue until they'll stop hiding their sorry asses behind civilians. In other words, till this war will end, because they'll never stop using such a good explanation for your audience for them constantly begging for your money.
eelsandpeels@reddit
No shame.
_Dominox_@reddit
Yep. Just like your crying their crocodile tears now leaders had yesterday. They even actually said so.
Gruejay2@reddit
Do you think Ukrainians aren't going to take the same attitude towards you?
Nobody respects you for acting this way. It's weak.
_Dominox_@reddit
You do realize that this strike happened because of Ukrainians proudly killing kids, right? Oh, what I'm talking about, they're not even humans for you, of course you wouldn't care one bit.
Gruejay2@reddit
Let's take the logic one step further. Why did the Ukrainians strike Russia?
The Nazis also liked to pretend they were victims.
_Dominox_@reddit
Sure, because that's what they were doing since 2014 coup.
You mean these nazis? It was filmed today I believe. Yeah, that's checks out. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/LE2eIWl0Ct
Gruejay2@reddit
Russia has plenty of neo-Nazis, too. Far more, in fact.
This is why I said no-one respects you. If you want to act like barbarians, don't expect sympathy when people treat you like barbarians.
gobiSamosa@reddit
Duh.
Russia isn't Israel.
Gelbton@reddit
Where's the sources for the "deliberately and proudly" stuff? Seems very subjective to me
Firecracker048@reddit
Wasn't Russia hiding a drone command unit in with these civilians?
Also where's the consequences been for Russia purposely targeting civilians for the last 4 years?
_Dominox_@reddit
Yeah, that the story they invented when they're realized that this time they're not gonna get away with their terrorism after killing students, mostly girls. Is this some kind of damage control strategy from the west, since they've used exactly the same claims when they killed those poor Iranian schoolgirls?
Firecracker048@reddit
Uhh huh. 'invented'. Because surely the country cutting off its internet to its people right now it's being fully truthful.
Still didn't answer my other question though
_Dominox_@reddit
As soon as your claims will match statistics similarly to average western war. Not even close right now and would never be close because we're actually caring about civilian lives, otherwise Kiev, or, if you wish, Sumy that can be bombed in any moment since it's like 30km from border would've been looked exactly like Gaza for years now.
Firecracker048@reddit
Okay so you got nothing when asked where is the Russian consequences for targeting civilians and instead try to pivot the conversation.
So I'll ask again, and give a real answer this time.
Where are Russias consequences for targeting civilians? Ukraine does it once and your completely up in arms. Russia does shit like it and even ships kids off and you just spew about the West.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/russian-authorities-committed-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-civilian
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/unable-to-win-on-the-battlefield-putin-escalates-war-on-ukrainian-civilians/
https://www.hrw.org/news/2026/02/04/ukraine-civilians-perennial-targets-of-russian-attacks
Gelbton@reddit
Seems like russia is in quite the pinch. This was a super expensive strike with no strategic gain. So what was the purpose?
If you ask that questions the answers will be very telling about how dire the situation is turning for russia
ChampionshipNo3072@reddit
It sounds like you know what exactly was hit. Can you share that with us?
this_dudeagain@reddit
From what I understand the target was actually an airfield 60km from Kiev and it missed.
JAEMzW0LF@reddit
"OMG your drones dont target civies, I am mega pissed you can also attack our cities, so here is me ONCE AGAIN doing a war crime - I do assure, its not my micro penis - not at all!"
Treinrukker@reddit
They hit a lot of factories lol, you don’t have to believe me but you can check nasa firms maps
Chroma_primus@reddit
From what i know nost of the factorues are spread out in the west of the country to make it harder for russiabs to strike would be idiotic if they were in the capital that regularily gets attacked.
Nerevarcheg@reddit
There are some. From that nasa firms map, guy you replied mentioned, you can see two locations that been hit extensively. It's Antonov factory, near Lukyianivka. And old tank depot near Rembasa.
Which been "hit", over 20 times already, since the start of invasion. You'd guess any factory would be already leveled to the ground.. but they "magically" respawn every time.
Freud-Network@reddit
They are only war crimes if someone can prosecute them. See also United States and Israel for more examples.
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