Do you think Moby Dick is so engrained in our culture?
Posted by QueenShewolf@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 128 comments
I was talking to a colleague the other day about this. Even if they didn't read the book, I feel like almost every American knows SOMETHING about Moby Dick. Whether it be the plot, "Call me Ishmael", Captain Ahab, Moby Dick himself, yada, yada, yada. Even Starbucks Coffee is a Moby Dick reference (for some reason). My colleague seems to disagree due to young people not knowing.
I'm just wondering if anyone else agrees with me.
indicus23@reddit
I dunno, but it's a damn good book.
Tippacanoe@reddit
I was so surprised when I read it how funny and full of life it was. Some of the most beautiful evocative stuff I’ve ever read too.
“No suicides permitted here, and no smoking in the parlor”
silviazbitch@reddit
“Think not, is my eleventh commandment; and sleep when you can, is my twelfth.”
Tippacanoe@reddit
“Oh! my dear fellow beings, why should we longer cherish any social acerbities, or know the slightest ill-humor or envy! Come; let us squeeze hands all round; nay, let us all squeeze ourselves into each other; let us squeeze ourselves universally into the very milk and sperm of kindness.”
It’s also the gayest book ever lol
TutorNo8896@reddit
"Its not gay whilst underway" is the nautical term
Niro5@reddit
I mean, that bit about squeezing the spermaceti together is definitely about jorking it.
Tippacanoe@reddit
I fucking love this line so much lmao. It’s amazing.
silviazbitch@reddit
That’s Stubb, the second mate. He’s my favorite character in the book. I read that line for the first time nearly sixty years ago and it’s stayed with me ever since. I riffed off its syntax for for my personal code of ethics- Hurt not; and help when you can.
Imaginary_Ladder_917@reddit
I should read it again. I read it when I was 16 and had mono. Home from school sick, in bed, attempting to read Mobyv Dick while dealing with the intense fatigue of mononucleosis did not make for a prime reading experience.
Tippacanoe@reddit
There’s actually a little story he tells in the book where his mom made him stay in bed as punishment on June 21st, the longest day of the year, as a teenager and he went insane. It’s really a beautiful book, I think WAY more worthwhile as you get older and understand things a bit more.
silviazbitch@reddit
“Better to sleep with a sober cannibal than a drunk Christian.”
mighty_boognish_77@reddit
It's because Moby really IS a dick. I like that song Porcelain though.
mighty_boognish_77@reddit
It's because Melville was a genius. Instead of a simple 1:1 allegory (the whale represents THIS), is open to interpretation. Meaning, 10 different people can read it and extract 10 different, but perfectly valid, interpretations. That, and it was written longhand.
Asparagus9000@reddit
It's a popular metaphor to use. So people hear that, learn about it, then use it themselves.
hashashin@reddit
Yeah, I hear people referring to their "white whale" as a long term aspirational goal to this day.
Current_Poster@reddit
Okay that's just funny.
Bright_Ices@reddit
What is funny about that?
Current_Poster@reddit
Moby Dick isn't aspirational for Ahab. It took his leg the first time, and then he spent the rest of his life chasing it with no concern for the risk to himself or others- it ultimately killed him in a horrific way, after destroying his ship and killing (with one exception, Ishmael) his entire crew in the process.
Onyx_Lat@reddit
Most people who say that they'd die on that hill are, in fact, not actually willing to literally die on that hill.
Current_Poster@reddit
Excessive metaphor =/= hilariously inappropriate metaphor.
CupBeEmpty@reddit
Dying at sea hunting a large mammal is a funny aspirational goal. You don’t see the humor there?
Bright_Ices@reddit
I mean, I’m uncharacteristically not taking it that literally, I guess. No one is hoping to die at sea in pursuit of their metaphorical “white whale.”
CupBeEmpty@reddit
I mean I don’t but also kind of get it. If I’m planning on dying anywhere lame dying in my sleep in my bed isn’t super cool. Dying on ocean hunting an apex predator from a wooden ship is kind of cool
OhManatree@reddit
u/hashashin Yes, and this has always annoyed my. Why would you use that as an example of your goal when the whale kills Ahab.
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
Because it shows how obsessive people are about something to the point they’re willing die trying… so basically a great metaphor.
OhManatree@reddit
I guarantee that most people that call something their White Whale have no clue.
OverSearch@reddit
DUDE…spoiler alert!!
D-ouble-D-utch@reddit
I doubt the majority know what it's from.
agitatedandroid@reddit
Young people don't know a fuckload of things. Until they do. Which they will. Or they won't.
There are people that don't know who Luke's father is. But they get by just fine.
ReplacementActual384@reddit
I am Luke's father
Butitsadryheat2@reddit
Luke's father I am.
ActorMonkey@reddit
No, I am Luke’s Father.
Graflex01867@reddit
No, I am Luke’s father!
flp_ndrox@reddit
I'm Spartacus!
Wait...
ubi_non_est_ordo@reddit
I’m Captain Kiiiiirrrrk!
colliedad@reddit
And looping back around to the Starbucks reference- https://youtu.be/5_pKKO35Kh4?si=V1whI8816MS5YRd8
Kaurifish@reddit
You may be his father, but you ain’t his daddy.
Keelera2@reddit
“I’m Mary Poppins y’all!”
EulerIdentity@reddit
I’m Luke’s second cousin!
TheVentiLebowski@reddit
I'm Luke's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate.
TillikumWasFramed@reddit
Call me Ishvader.
Chicago_Avocado@reddit
I’m not his father, but I hit that Padipuss
VelocityGrrl39@reddit
Relevant xkcd: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ten_thousand.png
Ananvil@reddit
Do they though?
jackfaire@reddit
No one knows who Luke's father is just that he died in a car accident.
Graflex01867@reddit
Honestly, the most I really know is the idea of the white whale - that you shouldn’t be obsessed with chasing/following/capturing one idea/thing.
It was supposed to be assigned reading in high school, but we were on an 8 hour bus ride, and my friend and I got about two chapters in and just stopped. (And neither of us were habitually lazy or poor readers, the book was just a slog to get through.)
fibro_witch@reddit
They taught it badly in high school.
silverwolf1978@reddit
Americans seem to like things that are described as being huge and the biggest ever.
CamiJay@reddit
I’m Gen Z so all I can offer is it’s a book about a whale and that’s about it. I’m a senior this year and it’s not even part of the curriculum anymore. I don’t think that not knowing a ton about Moby Dick puts you at a disadvantage at life of anything lol.
JNoodle89@reddit
I think Moby Dick is pretty universal to Americans, but what do I know? I watched an old lady miss a question about the Scarlet Letter last night on the Weakest Link and was appalled.
TheKiddIncident@reddit
I have to admit, someone had to tell me about the Moby Dick references in Star Trek II: Wrath of Kahn.
Pleased_Bees@reddit
I've been teaching high school and college English for more than 30 years and used to teach Moby Dick. Nowadays most people I know have never read a single page of it but if someone references a "white whale," they have a pretty good idea what it means.
go_jake@reddit
If you go over to r/ThriftStoreHauls you will see that most people there think it means “a cool thing that I didn’t know I wanted until I saw it.”
RichardAboutTown@reddit
I think most people know at least one Miby Dick reference, even if they don't always know it is a Moby Dick reference. I was in the room when my mom learned that "'Tain't funny, Mcgee"--a phrase she'd grown up hearing all the time--was a reference to the old Fibber McGee and Molly radio show.
frisky_husky@reddit
The best example I can think of is calling something difficult to obtain or achieve your "white whale." I think most people will know this idiom, whether or not they realize its literary origin. Think about all the idioms that originated in the King James Bible or the works of Shakespeare. People know the phrases, whether they have read those texts or not.
That said, I think Moby Dick is less universal in 21st century American culture than some other books. The Great Gatsby and To Kill a Mockingbird are more universally read by American students. I'm pretty sure most people have read Lord of the Flies and Catcher in the Rye at some point. I don't know how much Moby Dick still gets taught in high school, since it's a pretty massive book, and school curricula tend to skew towards a greater variety of shorter books. I'm from Albany, where Melville grew up, and his legacy is pretty important around here.
Silly-Resist8306@reddit
I think you must be talking about the generation that says “nip it in the butt” and “for all intense purposes.” Both are statements I read yesterday on Reddit. They don’t read. If it isn’t a 30 second video, it isn’t anything that has passed through their brain.
Gunzablazin1958@reddit
Intents and purposes
HobsHere@reddit
Incense and porpoises is my personal version
Dalionking225@reddit
That book is so old, nobody under 35 ever heard of it
HobsHere@reddit
Their loss. It's an amazing book. It's no less relevant now than it was when I read it. I grew up far inland, and whaling was already diminished to a controversial rarity. It's not a book about whaling. It's a book about humanity's struggles with our inner drives, our relationship to the physical world, how we learn to recognize our kinship to others who seem very different, and many other aspects of the human condition.
madonnagaga@reddit
Because the obsession of Ahab and his suicidal, take-you-all-down-with-me mission for something that he himself can’t understand is such a massive metaphor.
I’m looking at you, Culture Warriors and your war against “Woke”.
ezekiel920@reddit
Im an 80s kid and never read it. I dont know what its about except loose context from everyone that has made references.
EloquentRacer92@reddit
I barely know what Moby Dick is (other than that Moby Dick is a whale) and I haven’t felt lost on Moby Dick references.
fernincornwall@reddit
I don’t agree.
I think you’re obsessively looking at something with single minded purpose in a sea of chaos…. Maybe because the book hurt you in some way years ago and now you will chase it to the ends of the earth?
I don’t know but there definitely are NOT Moby Dick references everywhere…
karmapolice63@reddit
KHAAAAAANNNNNN!
webbitor@reddit
nice
IvanMarkowKane@reddit
The move from whale oil to petroleum was a big deal when it happened and was very traumatic for some. It would have marked a generation.
But not your generation or mine, so the book seems to have an outsized influence to us, since it just looks like an action/adventure novel.
TheDuckFarm@reddit
Young people know about Moby Dick.
SavannahInChicago@reddit
The only thing I really know about him is from cartoons as a kid so I think that its not. If it was engrained in our culture I think more people would have actually read the book. I know no one who has.
WaldenFont@reddit
For some reason? Starbuck is literally a character in the book.
Spikeintheroad@reddit
My favorite Moby Dick reference in pop culture is in a Deus Ex sequel where, to parody Starbucks coffee, there's two "competing" coffee chains called Pequods and Queequeegs.
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
You really overestimate anyone gives a flying fuck about moby dick.
AliMcGraw@reddit
It trended about 15 years ago when a man published a memoir, that was very well-received, about his (recently-died) English professor father's love of Moby Dick and his refusal to read it just because his dad liked it ... until he did read it, and fell in love. That kicked off a wave of new readers (including me!). Plus the New Bedford Whaling Museum hosts a yearly Moby Dick readathon, which is popular on the East Coast.
It's a tough high school read because it's so dang long and I think it's also, like Middlemarch, a novel that benefits from the seasoning of adulthood. Even teens who like it don't get it truly.
But I fell in love with it when I read it. It's one of the greatest novels I've ever read. Probably my favorite in American literature (possibly because of the philosophical bent of it); on par with Crime & Punishment and Middlemarch and Ivan Ilych and Hunchback. It's SO GOOD, and it's so compulsively readable (once you relax about the whale "asides," which are not a side note but hold the key to the point of the whole thing).
Tippacanoe@reddit
People who say “you can skip the whaling chapters” are brain dead to me. It’s much more of a philosophy book than an adventure. One of those books if you just read the plot summary you’re getting 2% of the experience.
CupBeEmpty@reddit
If you read it then there’s no part with skipping. If you live near Rhode Island and southern MA then none of it is worth skipping.
AliMcGraw@reddit
I'm Midwestern but officially ready to try my luck as a whaler after reading ....
CupBeEmpty@reddit
I’m a Hoosier but I live like 20 minutes from the sea now I think I’d be a navy conscript in a former life.
AliMcGraw@reddit
I feel like some people are tricked by the fact that the last 70 pages are a totally un-put-down-able adventure story where your heart is pounding the whole time, and don't realize none of it makes any sense without the whole of it.
GSilky@reddit
There was a time nobody got out of highschool without having to read it, The Great Gatsby, and usually Great Expectations. In the 80s/90s and later, school administration figured because there are many Hispanic and Black students, it would be cool to offer other material kids might be interested in, and everything gets different books to read now. The adults over 40 probably all know what it is, everyone else was spared. There was a trend for sticking with Melville (he was an important author) using other works like Billy Budd, but I'm not sure how many young people were exposed.
allflanneleverything@reddit
“Money Dick is a very famous book…that I have never read”
(Rooster s1 e3) kinda captures my feelings on it
TillikumWasFramed@reddit
Everyone seems to have their White Whale.
ladybugseattle@reddit
I'm just hoping Robert Eggers directs a version with Dave Bautista as Queequeg
_WillCAD_@reddit
I dunno. Some people are just naturally obsessed with giant white Dick. Others enjoy the musical styling of Moby. I try not to judge.
Fullthrottle-@reddit
This is a classic read by most kids in high school (grade 9-12) I don’t believe I know anyone that doesn’t know this tale. Lord of the Flies is a little less common but great classic.
knight1096@reddit
I have a Masters in History and this is a fun thought exercise on historical memory so bear with me:
Lots of random literary or cultural references were preserved in early cartoons like Looney Tunes (1930-1969) which was in rerun syndication at least until the early 2000s and would have had viewers as old as grandparent age watching with their grandkids (so if it’s a grandparent taking their grandkid to the movies to see the first cartoons, they could have reasonably been born during the Civil War). Cartoons always have references in them to appeal to the adults that inevitably will also be watching and many would have been reading books, known oral history or known about general world news headlines so there would have been common tropes in literature that folks were familiar with.
One reference I can think of in particular that I knew about as a child from watching Looney Tunes that I would never have really known about otherwise was a scene where one of the characters reenacts a hypothetical journey by Dr. Livingstone, a Scottish explorer who went missing in 1866 while exploring central Africa. Apparently the words “Dr. Livingstone, I presume” were supposedly uttered in 1871 when journalist Henry Morten Stanley went on an expedition to track him down (although there are no physical records to this, it was omitted from Livingstone’s journal and Stanley’s were destroyed). Nonetheless, the public was captivated by the story, so much so that it was preserved in a children’s cartoon, made many decades later that children and their parent or grandparent would understand that reference.
My assumption is that as an American classic novel with a reputation as having been an amazing book its own right would have been familiar enough for a general American viewing audience that it made its way into multiple forms of media that was later consumed by wider audiences, hence familiarity with the general plot and themes without ever reading the book. It would have also been a common story to rehash/recycle in a new light over time like Josef Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, published 1899 and the movie Apocalypse Now, released in 1979. We all know the line “the horror, the horror!” but may not have known that it was uttered by fictional Kurtz in a Victorian Era book. Books and stories about exploration and adventure have been part of the America zeitgeist since the country’s inception.
SoloMisanthrope@reddit
H M Stanley, writing in New York Herald on 10th November 1872 -
There is a group of the most respectable Arabs, and as I come nearer I see the white face of an old man among them. He has a cap with a gold band around it, his dress is a short jacket of red blanket cloth, and his pants - well, I didn't observe. I am shaking hands with him. We raise our hats, and I say: 'Dr Livingstone, I presume?' And he says, 'Yes.'
MattieShoes@reddit
The references are certainly there -- also "white whale" and "Pequod". I think it's a pretty shallow connection though. I think a fairly high percentage of people haven't read it.
JaimanV2@reddit
Ingrained in our culture? I don’t think so. But Moby Dick is considered one of the great American novels. Very important in terms of American literature.
It’s a great novel. It’s so much deeper than just a man hunting a whale. There themes about religion, meaning and purpose of life, what an unwavering devotion to a lost cause does to people, and much more.
Gunzablazin1958@reddit
OP I think you’ve been proved correct. I read all the comments and it seems everyone responding had either read the book, heard of the book and knows a reference in the book.
I don’t recall a single, “Moby Dick? Never heard of it.”
rawbface@reddit
I didn't even know Melville was American. I never read Moby Dick.
HatsandCoats@reddit
No i don’t think it is ingrained in our culture. People know about it like they know about classical myth. A general sense of the action (guy, possibly guys, hunt whale ‘cause reasons). But do they have any idea of the plot, the characters, story, or implicit content… no.
It’s a cultural touchstone, but not widely read. References often but usually with little to no nuance.
DOMSdeluise@reddit
It's one of the great American novels. Why wouldn't it be ingrained in our culture?
Imaginary_Ladder_917@reddit
Starbuck is the first mate in the crew and is the logical one who tries to bring rationality and morality to the situation. He’s the foil to Ahab.
killerbee9100@reddit
It's a good book to use in literature classes to teach symbolism and metaphor so it's usually part of a high school curriculum. It's also considered one of the Great American Novels. Of which there are only a handful. It's like French people knowing Victor Hugo and Dumas or English knowing a lot about Shakespeare.
D-ouble-D-utch@reddit
No.
Ok-Energy-9785@reddit
No
Bluemonogi@reddit
I don’t think I hear references to Moby Dick that often in daily life.
When I was in school we had to read it so many people my age or older probably would know references. Not sure if younger people are still being assigned to read it.
It is probably like the Wizard of Oz. They would show the movie on tv every year when I was growing up. It was so common to see it back then when we basically had 3-4 tv channels. Everyone could quote the movie. You might hear the phrase we aren’t in Kansas anymore. You might have seen or heard of characters or elements from the stories from one of the many adaptations.
ZaphodG@reddit
I was born in New Bedford and grew up 2 miles from the city line. Moby Dick was required reading.
Mikewazowski948@reddit
WHITE!
WHALE!
HOLY!
GRAIIIIILLLL!!!
Dragonsfire09@reddit
Mastodon!
Emotional-Donut-2098@reddit
You could say this about anything. Literature, fashion, music etc...are cyclical. Rising and falling into obscurity only to be rediscovered hundred of years later, thanks Gutenberg.
GorgeousBog@reddit
You really can’t lol. If you think Moby Dick is comparable to “anything” then idk what to tell u.
Cautious_Regular3645@reddit
Is it ingrained, or do you think it is?
Your perception may not be the general consensus.
GorgeousBog@reddit
It was a question. And they used “I feel” in the paragraph.
What is the point of ur comment
GorgeousBog@reddit
I understand and appreciate the book seriously, at times it’s beautiful, but man I could not finish it. Just not for me. But yeah it’s had a lot of literary influence.
aturtleatoad@reddit
I think the term “white whale” has become a common place metaphor that almost everyone knows. Beyond that, I think your milage will very quite a bit depending on who you are talking to
geekteam6@reddit
Moby Dick is basically the Hamlet / King Lear / Henry V of America. It's the best, quintessentially American work of literature. Kinda like every American knows a bit of jazz and blues (quintessential American music) even if they don't actively listen to it.
Ms-Metal@reddit
I'm in my 60s and I've never Read Moby Dick and I've never had any interest in it. Also I've heard white whale my entire life and had no idea until I read this thread that it referenced Moby Dick. Also, to be clear, I was an extremely avid reader most of my life, I still am but I just don't have as much time to read these days so now it's only a book a month. But I've read so many books in my life, it's just that a book about a whale hunt never has and never will interest me! In fact it grosses me out!
AggressiveCommand739@reddit
Moby Dick (and the story that inspired it) is one of America's oldest tales. Its basically part of our folklore.
Evening_Falcon_9003@reddit
Best book I ever read. What Melville an say in a sentence, others need Half a page
jackfaire@reddit
I tried to read it to my daughter when she was a baby. She'd fall asleep and then I would. Never got past the first bit.
The only part that stuck with me was the knocking off people's hats.
IPreferDiamonds@reddit
"The sea was angry that day, my friends"
whats-reddit17@reddit
I've never read moby dick, I know captain ahab, I didn't know it was from moby dick.
Current_Poster@reddit
I'd say so. I know that if I mentioned something about the historical whaling industry, someone would mention Moby Dick fairly shortly, at least on the "Oh yeah, like in the book with the big whale in it" level.
Viper_Red@reddit
Yeah. I’ve never read it but I still generally have a good idea of what it’s about
Few-Wrongdoer-5296@reddit
I'm 20 and most people I know in my age group understand the references. But I do admittedly hang out with pretty bookish people. If Starbucks is a reference to Moby Dick, I assume it's to the first mate, Starbuck. Really puritanical guy if I recall, but it's been a few years since I read the book.
I couldn't tell you academically why it's stuck in American culture, but I would assume it has something to do with the book having very universal themes, like obsession and its consequences and man vs nature. This makes it low hanging fruit for English curriculums, and the ubiquitousness of the book lends it to references in modern media like comic strips and The Simpsons.
Also, I think the book is just famous for being long and dense.
AKA-Pseudonym@reddit
There are lots of things like this. Most people read maybe one or two Shakespeare plays in high school but have at least a surface level familiarity with six or seven. People exist within a culture and gather knowledge about that culture even if they don't have direct contact with all of it.
Straight_Mongoose_51@reddit
Yes, and I think that's the case for a lot of classics. Even if they're not widely read anymore they managed to stick around in the mainstream. Not just American books either, there are references to Shakespeare everywhere and the word "Dickensian" conjures a very specific image.
Another American example would probably be The Great Gatsby, and maybe Catcher in the Rye.
uresmane@reddit
You forgot the white whale metaphors, many high schoolers are forced to read it including me. I did a report on it when I was in high school. It's not a bad book, just a long read.
plumberbss@reddit
There have been like 30 movies
BroCanWeGetLROTNOG@reddit
All I know is whale
tenehemia@reddit
For sure. It's had enduring presence as a reference because it was a staple of high school curriculum for so long. If you're making a Daffy Duck movie in 1965 or looking for a literary reference for Jean Luc Picard in 1996, you can reliably count on audiences knowing what you're talking about if you use Moby Dick.
QueenShewolf@reddit (OP)
Patrick Stewart even played Ahab in the 1998 movie.
tsukiii@reddit
I don’t think I’ve ever read it, but if someone says a pursuit is their “white whale,” I understand the reference.
Hoosier_Jedi@reddit
It’s referenced indirectly a lot, even if most people haven’t read the book.
Hell, there’s a Marvel villain called Ahab.
https://www.marvel.com/characters/ahab-earth-811
Jswazy@reddit
The same reason any book is. A large number of people are forced to read it at some point as part of their education. There are almost no books that are a big part of our culture that this does not apply to
catincombatboots@reddit
Yeah. I think most people know something about Moby Dick, even if they didn't read it in English class.
Alarming-While8028@reddit
yes