“Janissaries were banned by the 17th century, stop bringing it up.” No problem, what about this?
Posted by tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 48 comments
VisibleReport5008@reddit
I dont get the connection with janissaries
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
Typically Balkan people bring up that on of the ugliest parts of the Ottoman Empire was janissaries. Defenders typically say that this was not counted as slavery because they accepted Islam and that slavery is banned in Islam. This is usually used as a disguise to downplay the negative impact they had while colonizing the Balkans.
But as we can see by the modern map, I’m not sure that pacifist and morally superior mentality the defenders advocate is all that true, or that it was all that pacifist. Modern statistics show otherwise.
And I’ll grant this map has bias and flawed methodology, but usually if one country is considered one of the worst, the real situation can’t be all too great even if better
VisibleReport5008@reddit
yeah but still modern slavery and janisseries has nothing to do with each other. Ottomans didnt had the typical slaves in the west at least not in the balkans. Janissaries arent slaves this doesnt mean its morally right or whatever.
Ordinary-Resort9249@reddit
The Ottoman Empire was built on nothing but slavery - it was a cancer on civilisation
NorthWelcome1626@reddit
No, it was built on Turkic tribes. Janissary Hearths were founded around 60-90 years later.
Janissaries weren't the backbone of the army either, it was Sipahis. Janissaries was just a component of the army.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
What do you call it when someone else human trafficks a child and then grooms them into a lifestyle that perpetuates the same kidnap-grooming cycle? Not only is it slavery, it’s a sadistic and calculated type of slavery that made the Ottoman Empire stand out.
VisibleReport5008@reddit
I already said i dont defend it. And does balkan have these kinda issues right know? Modern slavery is a capitalism problem, was ottoman a capitalist empire?
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
> Janissaries aren’t slaves
You just did \^ .
VisibleReport5008@reddit
I said they werent slaves as in west. And I didnt defend it. Stop the larp
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
“yeah but still modern slavery and janisseries has nothing to do with each other. Ottomans didnt had the typical slaves in the west at least not in the balkans. Janissaries arent slaves this doesnt mean it’s morally right or whatever.”
VisibleReport5008@reddit
Whats your point of repeating your sentences. You are making zero point about my argument.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
I don’t think you speak English well enough to continue this
hilmiira@reddit
Lmao he speaks perfectly fine, you just got owned in your own post
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
As someone who speaks English natively, no, he does not speak perfectly fine.
bumbumbum12345678@reddit
When u starting losing an argument u started to say ur english sucks lmao long story short janissarie program is a bad thing but you cant call them slave bc the definition of slavery is not compatible with janissaries
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
No I’m being genuine. I keep saying the same thing and he isn’t understanding it. I said he didn’t call it slavery, he says that’s not true. I quoted his passage right in front of him, he still says no I didn’t say that. Like I don’t know what else I can do at that point
Same-Ad-6523@reddit
Cope
Doodledore420@reddit
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted.
bumbumbum12345678@reddit
bc he is historically wrong and you think he is right that means u are too
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
Wow. I didn’t even notice till you told me.
Idk sometimes the wrong crowd comes in. Usually comments like this get awards, not downvotes
Zealousideal_Fox3012@reddit
slavery is not banned in islam tho.. ( im exmuslim)
hilmiira@reddit
Say this to face of a janissarry and he will cut you in middle for reputing him with a peasant.
"B-but janissaries were slaves" is the stupiest modern narration about Ottoman history. Especially since those "slaves" literally killed their "master" for trying to abolish said slavery.
Janissaries werent slaves, their social status, rights in society and role was simply diffrent than actual slaves that also existed in same society
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
They were children that were human trafficked from families and then forcibly circumcised.
Some black ladies in the South were rich during times of slavery and wore ball gowns. Doesn’t mean they were free.
hilmiira@reddit
it literally wasnt a uncle tom esque lifestyle, like it couldnt be more opposite than this comparision 😭 it is funny how you keep trying to narrate it in a spesific negative light while trying to blame people for whitewashing history and having agendas.
my first point still stands, show a janissary whos been guarding royal palace uncle tom himself, his torn down cabin, whip scars, treatment by masters and say "he is just like you" and janissary will sue you to a qadı for insult and order your whipping himself.
Whic was unironically a legal right they had, ordering punishment of people who scorn their status and rank
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
I don’t give a shit what a janissary would’ve thought. They were brainwashed village people serving a Muslim overlord by force. They’re dead, and you talk about them as if they’re alive. Maybe you want to be one idk you have that cuck vibe about you.
Wealth =/= freedom. See black woman example from above. I know you don’t want to see it, but it’s still there.
Annoying_guest@reddit
United States has more prison slaves per capita than any other country
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
Yes. They’re crazy with their prisons
Annoying_guest@reddit
When america "ended" slavery it specifically wrote an exception for criminals
ilovemangos3@reddit
you flooded me with a middle school memory, i remember learning this in 5th grade
dushmanimm@reddit
I assume it's predominantly because of the high number of refugees?
Kindly_Scientist@reddit
where do i get one?
illegal-cucumber@reddit
Wow. Just curious, how can I get one?
deviendrais@reddit
And I’m sure the Ottomans stopped taking Janissaries out of the kindness of their hearts
hilmiira@reddit
They literally had to destroy janissaries for that. As they kept asking their own family to keep being a janissary. And killed at least 3 sultans (raped to one according to a urban legend) for wanting to end devshieme system
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
No no no how could you say that? It’s because they were guided by Islam which states you cannot have slaves. And because they were so pious they realized they may not have upkeep this affront to Allah and did what the good book told them to do.
Honorable is more the right word
SnooLentils726@reddit
1) Janissaries werent slaves,they were called ''kul''meaning slave, Ottoman Sultans reffered themselves as ''Allah'ın kulu'' meanin slave of Allah. Thousands of jannisaries protected whole royal family,pissing them off by kidnapping them would make things worse for the royal family.
2)Janissaries were abolished in 1826
3)There is no connection between these 2 subjects
4)The answer you are looking for is mass immigration,bridewealth and income inequality.
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
> Janissaries weren’t slaves
Whitewashing of history, revisionism and turco-centric
> Janissaries were abolished in 1826
Because of the empires progressive mentality no doubt. Just look at the long lasting effects that decree had. Clearly learned their lesson.
> There is no connection between the two subjects
There is when someone says that janissaries weren’t slaves. That type of answer indicates a certain type of thinking.
Jediuzzaman@reddit
There is a legal, practical and social distinction in between slavery and servantry in both Islam and Ottomans.
Indicates a certain type of thinking? Do you accuse people to think on a matter based on reality? What's that?
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
Sure. And the ottomans enforced slavery and not servitude.
Are you going to tell me you don’t hold the Ottoman Empire in esteem compared to others?
Jediuzzaman@reddit
And you treat the history as you treat me. Oh boi...
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
I’m not treating you anyway. I’m countering your minimization of ottoman terror in the Balkans. I’m not going to accept your arguments because it’ll make you feel good
Empty-Pace-4228@reddit
Modern slavery means inhumane working conditions for minimal wage (or lower). Which is very common in places where Turkey since it is a common tradition to use migrants in hard labor.
Turkey is the country that takes most migrants and refugees in MENA and Europe if we exclude Pakistan and Iran.
blumonste@reddit
Wage labor is worse than slavery. Some can't even feed/clothes/house themselves with wages.
Free_Explanation2590@reddit
Funny how white supremacists and indian supremacists love to speak slavery to me, as some of north african descent, when India and the USA have more slaves than Algeria.
Dyspchordia@reddit
>2023
it is probably doubled by now
Rasputin_Offical@reddit
Modern slavery? Like exploited workers? Workplace mobbing?
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit (OP)
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/wNMsy282zF
Yes. I’d say trafficking comes into play as well, forced labour and withholding documents to essentially trap someone in the country and make them dependant on you.
Rasputin_Offical@reddit
Oh yeah that last one isn't even new it's like 30+ years old stuff, still going on unfortunately