Airbus A320 Software updates using PDL
Posted by CeleritasLucis@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 320 comments
Posted by CeleritasLucis@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 320 comments
Device_whisperer@reddit
What kind of gnarly interface cable is that?
tenet08@reddit
A615 cable like this one
where it is plugged
Portable dataloader is a teledyne PMAT 2000
pm_mba@reddit
Why does aviation use such proprietary equipment. Can’t this be achieved with thin thunderbolt and a decent laptop
drloser@reddit
You shouldn't be downvoted.
Despite its imposing size, this equipment performs extremely poorly. Why do they use it? Mainly because of the colossal inertia of aviation-related technologies. You can't change anything without going to great lengths to obtain the appropriate certifications. So they're stuck with this old technology, which is 100,000 times slower than a USB-C cable.
Some will say that these certifications are absolutely essential, and they're probably right. But the fact is, despite them, 6000 aircraft are grounded.
Visa5e@reddit
Surely usb-c is considered 'safe', especially as this is something that happens on the ground. If it's just shifting bytes from the machine to the aircraft it should be fine?
Many years ago I worked on a project for the RAF. We ripped out all of their proprietary consoles, built by Marconi, I think, that were insanely expensive. Like 10k for a new screen etc.
Replaced it all with COTS products and dropped their opex by 99%.
There's a very lucrative industry around the idea of 'use our stuff or terrible things will happen', when it's basically vendor lockin.
Yoghurt42@reddit
You'll still have to have it certified, which is the part that costs a lot of money.
plantsadnshit@reddit
Eventually getting it certified would outweigh the cost of buying all this super expensive equipment though.
We all know the standard is going to be USB-C so at this point there has to be some people who have thought about changing it..
wighty@reddit
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a good potential fuel cost savings across the fleet for a smaller/lighter connector as well ;)
SheepherderAware4766@reddit
The upside is it could be interfaced with any device,
The downside is it could be accessed by any device. Never give non-maintenance people access to ports they shouldn't interface with. They can (and will) plug something into those ports that will infect (cybersecurity) the aircraft or interfere with operations.
ArgumentativeNutter@reddit
a normal universal cat5 network cable, thunderbolt is proprietary apple
SnooSquirrels8097@reddit
Thunderbolt is not proprietary
SheepherderAware4766@reddit
It is. It's a closed standard certified by Intel and maintained by Apple.
E3FxGaming@reddit
Thunderbolt is proprietary. Intel and Apple co-developed the Thunderbolt technology and Apple transferred the trademark in 2011 to Intel.
Intel owns the Thunderbolt brand and details of the underlying protocol.
Intel licenses the usage of Thunderbolt with a royalty-free model since 2017, but that doesn't change the fact that it is proprietary.
andorraliechtenstein@reddit
Thunderbolt is a proprietary technology developed by Intel and initially Apple, but it is now available on both Intel and AMD systems after being certified by Intel
woodruff42@reddit
Yes it is.
Companies that want to use it need to have their products approved and pay large licensing fees
Filipb100@reddit
I thought Intel opensourced Thunderbolt 3? Isn’t USB 4 based on it?
Cthulhu__@reddit
USB is probably better and has more resilient cables, data transfer wise it should be fast enough for this purpose (assuming the data isn’t terabytes)
bicycleroad@reddit
It's a D38999 connector, which is industry standard and can be purchased from a bunch of suppliers.
It's just ethernet and RS232 across the cable as well, nothing fancy there.
cencal@reddit
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Like you have to carry 100s of those, that drawback?
tenet08@reddit
Biggest pains are loading times (45 minute every month for nav database) and sony has stopped manufacturing floppy disks since 2011.
unpluggedcord@reddit
Why? This seems like the easiest thing to upgrade.
tenet08@reddit
As stated in second link, floppy disks: - needs you to change media during load, requires someone not messing up the order - have dropouts, requires someone monitoring it - have to be manually prepared, requires someone not messing up
Portable data loader seems overkill but for the same nav database it will take about 5 minutes with very low error rate and almost no dropouts. For large fleets, having A615 ready aircrafts and PDLs (same computer, different cable between boeing and airbus) saves a lot of money as it requires less time and less peoples to prepare+perform the task.
ghjm@reddit
Honestly I wish we had PDLs for our fleet of 15 piston singles.
andorraliechtenstein@reddit
"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
unpluggedcord@reddit
USB’s still accomplish the same thing. I never said internet.
decollimate28@reddit
There are modern units that use USB/DVD or wireless etc. Most mainline western airlines aren’t using floppies any more but they’re definitely still around in the fleet in general.
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
There's big money in maintaining legacy IT infrastructure as well
ghjm@reddit
A shortcoming is a disadvantage. A short coming is something you find when you sort porn by length.
FixergirlAK@reddit
Having watched the computer age happen, I am appalled that they're still using floppies for this application. But not even a little bit surprised. I am having flashbacks to updating the database in the first Garmin we had in the 182. My old man was an early adopter and the setup for GA was not particularly streamlined yet.
Calling_left_final@reddit
One being it's extremely floppy
xms_7of9@reddit
Like the need for a time machine set to 1991, location: Radio Shack.
jgarcesmohci@reddit
My god, it works with Windos98!
UpgradedSiera6666@reddit
Thx so much
OkPractice9203@reddit
Someone with data has entered the chat. We salute you.
EbbEntire3751@reddit
Wtf why does the cable need so many conductors
FeliciaGLXi@reddit
Wee need to get this tablet to James or Bringus so they can play Doom on it
protekt0r@reddit
I build cables like these, if anyone’s interested. That cable would take me about 2 days, with proper inspections along the way by quality inspectors.
Idk what this one sells for, but I can give you an estimate in time & material: $1500
justvims@reddit
Imagine being a multibillion dollar company and not knowing about USB-C
ffolkes@reddit
https://aerosnip.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG_0100_1-600x800.jpg
"Windows Defender"
😬
IllegalStateExcept@reddit
> teledyne PMAT 2000
https://youtu.be/AEE54OmQnkw
Huh, a Windows 2000 tablet that costs $50k. This is consistent with everything I know about aviation maintenance. But it does look pretty cool. Unfortunately someone already beat me to posting it to /r/cyberdeck
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/comments/1p9rafp/airbus_a320_software_updates_using_pdl/
darkpyro2@reddit
I cant tell because I cant see the pins, but it looks like the type of ruggedized connector they'll use in the military. We have these large bundles of wires in sleeves like this, and the connectors are just cylinders of pins that screw in. You'll often do things like de-sleeve an ethernet cable, a serial cable, and a connector for a fan and connect them all to the same connector. So one of those can be for multiple interfaces.
Source: I work in aviation software for both civil and military applications...but I've never actually had to wire one of those, so I dont know what the standard is called.
avalose@reddit
A very expensive one I imagine.
TheAssholeofThanos@reddit
Those bastards at Glenair make a killing
anonqwerty99@reddit
Imagine being the one that supplies that cable. Oh you want extras because your entire fleet is grounded? Sure we can expedite that for a few ten thousand of dollars.
O-to-shiba@reddit
Each
Total_Cheetah@reddit
Taxes extra.
HelpyHelperer@reddit
Plus a Tip
doctorbjo@reddit
Is it cheaper if we let you play some ads on the PFD every ten minutes?
Big_Cryptographer_16@reddit
Does not meet EU rules for USB-C. Need all new cables now.
likeusb1@reddit
Luckily plane was made before 2024 so it can still have that standard
d1ll1gaf@reddit
Sorry the port is an integrated component and cannot be upgraded; please contact your sales rep for a replacement plane. Act now to take advantage of Black Friday pricing!
Particular_Ant7977@reddit
This is an obsoleted non-RoHS part number. Please create a support ticket and contact your local account manager for updated P/N.
9G_Turn@reddit
With speeds of USB 1.0 and price tag of around $1200
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Must be air-worthiness certified
koinai3301@reddit
Umm..why? Does it have to be on the plane when its flying?
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
It's a joke
koinai3301@reddit
Very difficult to know on this sub!!
Finbarr-Galedeep@reddit
Proprietary Airbus-specific one, I should imagine.
MattL-PA@reddit
Just a big orange wrapper on a old RS232 interface thats $130k, versus the traditional $0.82 without the orange wrapper. /s kinda.
kilobrew@reddit
You joke. But I bet they are at least up to rs-485…
MattL-PA@reddit
I actually had rs485 initially, but changed to 232 cause 485 was too modern. Lol
ragingxtc@reddit
Could be RS-422 as well.
HammerTh_1701@reddit
Yeah, likely a custom serial-in-parallel protocol while reusing an existing plug standard. XLR, RS232, USB, something like that.
Finbarr-Galedeep@reddit
More like socapex, judging by the bloody size of the connector.
GenericAccount13579@reddit
Looks like a standard screw lock type cable? Like the 38999 cables that every box on the plane has
koinai3301@reddit
Why can't they just use the good old seria connectors? Or does ARINC system implementation by Airbus requires this behemoth?
Realistic_Mix3652@reddit
Yeah - doesn't an orange universally indicate high voltage? Why would a data cable need to be high voltage?!
GenericAccount13579@reddit
Not in the aircraft world. Orange means not for production flight. We use orange wire for flight test instrumentation, for example
TackleMySpackle@reddit
Sometimes we use bright red or orange colors on things that are not meant to be left on the airplane. My work iPad is in a black Pelican case and I set it down on a pedestal in the cockpit that was the same color. Took me 30 minutes to find it. It has orange and red stickers all over it now.
A lot of the time these sorts of cables are repaired and/or maintained by someone in the shop who is the designated “tool and equipment guy.” It could be that people kept losing them and he got tired of it so he ordered orange sheathing.
lbutler1234@reddit
For some reason I figured it would just be USB or something lmao
snorp@reddit
Nah that's a garden hose
AirborneSysadmin@reddit
The wires are wrapped in an expandable sleeping, aka "snakeskin". Its orange because orange is the color for things that are not aircraft systems and shouldn't be there when you fly. It protects the harness from abrasion and pinching.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/flexo-pet-braided-sleeving?pid=6071&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1768785984&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0KrJBhCOARIsAGIy9wCob3z2uSF3oZiMQ8cUw2aMEv1JXZzX2PuW0IPMfOfQhV5HyFnVd4saAv9pEALw_wcB
ButterscotchNo7292@reddit
It looks like it sends petabytes of data:))
hennabeak@reddit
A water cooled one. Aka a garden hose.
nobodyisfreakinghome@reddit
An unnecessarily bespoke one?
metalpony@reddit
I’ve seen cables that look like this but are literally a usb connection with a locking ring around the plug and a thicker jacketed cable for protection. Not saying that’s what this is but there are some interesting versions of normal connection standards out there.
tahaea1@reddit
ARINC 429
Taliesin5899@reddit
USB-Z
iboreddd@reddit
One of MIL-DTL or DTL interfaces probably
lkajerlk@reddit
USB-128
MemMori@reddit
Looks fairly standard for aerospace.
SMEAGAIN_AGO@reddit
What does PDL stand for?
dkobayashi@reddit
Portable data loader
Elios000@reddit
pretty damn large
mobilehavoc@reddit
Don't turn the plane off or unplug it while updating!! Don't want to brick it
TheTangoFox@reddit
It'll load in safe mode. Safer that way I believe...
soulseeker31@reddit
Why not fly in safe mode? Zero crashes right?
/s
jakeod27@reddit
Why don’t they just build the airplane out of safemode
checkthisoutson@reddit
They like operating in the danger zone
CxC-gamer@reddit
I'm never gonna say hello to you
jakeod27@reddit
LAAAAAAAANA!
kockologus@reddit
WHAT?!?!?!?!?
8ringer@reddit
r/unexpectedarcher
spedeedeps@reddit
I guess direct law would be the equivalent. Pilots would sure love it…
Pootang_Wootang@reddit
Had an F-22 bricked for months because of an OFP push gone bad.
9G_Turn@reddit
They should switch to OTA delivery method, would start prompting pilot midflight and then just update during critical phase of flight... true multitasking, firmware update during landing
Paizzu@reddit
I once received a rather frantic phone call from my base's ATC watch supervisor because their ILS remote monitor decided to install an update for windows during the duty day.
The localizer and glideslope were still functional (thank you Selex for dedicated flightline hardware/software) but ATC lost their local control interface.
TacohTuesday@reddit
You bricked an F-22? Not many can say that.
koinai3301@reddit
Had to read it twice to get my mind in the right place.
Saltyspaceballs@reddit
Ironically the last plane I had AOG was all because it had been switched off for 6 days. Engineers were telling me it’d almost always the same, switch them back on and they’re more broken than when they arrive in the hangers
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
I am just surprised it takes only 15 minutes to do that.
Nytfire333@reddit
The sw upload is the easy part. It’s getting the SW released for upload that is so freaking hard. Speaking as a Program Manager working in military aviation, specifically navigation and electronics
byteuser@reddit
Is it confirmed that they are reverting to the older software version (L103) cause the L104 was too loose with Slew Rate Limiter values? Thus the recent mishap
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
They are just reverting back to the last version no, in this case?
reditcyclist@reddit
True but they had to be sure this particular piece of the overall software was going to work with he rest of the deployment. It's meant to by design of course but regression testing is on another level for aviation
nobodyisfreakinghome@reddit
15 minutes to upload, 3 days of lag because it’s “indexing”. (Looking at you r/ios!
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Don't forget the crazy heat up, even with the M series
olizet42@reddit
Just fly high to cool everything down.
BabiesatemydingoNSW@reddit
Wild. The Proline Fusion updates take half that time using a thumb drive. Just did it last week.
gizcard@reddit
Stupid question: why can't it be a USB connection? Why the need of proprietary cable.
w0lrah@reddit
The A320 family started development in 1984, first flew in 1987, and entered service in 1988. Over 550 of them were delivered before USB even started development.
Now, why it's still some weird proprietary custom computer instead of a common off the shelf rugged laptop plus a USB to whateverthehell interface, that probably comes down entirely to vendor lock-in. I'd be willing to bet that internally it's exactly that. I'd be shocked to find out that they've actually developed PCIe based controllers for whatever '80s industrial bus they adopted.
Elios000@reddit
AND they dont want just any one jamming some USB stick or cable in...
nighthawke75@reddit
Job security.
Substantial_List_223@reddit
Ask the Titan team
nilsmf@reddit
Engineers: Make the diagnosis computer just a bit too big to be placed on the captain’s table. Put the contact on top so it can’t be rested anywhere. Then put a really long cable on it, but not long enough to sit anywhere but in the captain’s chair.
polarisdelta@reddit
It's hugely more convenient than the units it replaced. We don't have to deal with floppy disks anymore and the battery cells they take are both very fast to change and last a lot longer.
Boundish91@reddit
Floppies? That seems awfully out of date.
Ungrammaticus@reddit
Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken is doubly true in aviation and quadruply true in aviation electronics.
Floppies are very well understood, relatively resistant to physical damage and very reliable. Why spend millions of dollars to get newer tech tested and certified if the old one works just fine?
lamewoodworker@reddit
But the vibes it gives off from aesthetics is so fucken good though. Looks like it is straight out of alien. Which as far as i know they used a bunch of parts from old Boeings in the original movie. Wouldn’t be surprised if they use this in the next movie
swinginSpaceman@reddit
And the mouse is similar to that red dot on the middle of Thinkpad laptop keyboards. Also, let's make it big and bulky but give it a really tiny keyboard
probablyuntrue@reddit
Ah yes, the clit mouse
It made me into a man
Over-Conversation220@reddit
Respectfully, it’s a nipple mouse. If it were a clit mouse, I’d never be able to find it.
bacondesign@reddit
https://xkcd.com/243/
octoreadit@reddit
What cable? You got to use a garden hose for this thing, how else will you push this massive update in 15 min?!
lbutler1234@reddit
It is simply not worth the design effort and cost to engineer something to fit in a place where it's going to be used so infrequently. It ain't an iPhone
PresentationJumpy101@reddit
Hello you’ve reached Airbus tech support what seems to be the problem today?……..I see, did you try turning WiFi on and off again?
EitherMasterpiece514@reddit
From what I read, the issue is that intense solar radiation could corrupt the data used by the flight systems. I am curious as to how a software fix can help this since usually it is the hardware that has error correction mechanisms.
UpgradedSiera6666@reddit
Added redundancies
InFiveMinutes@reddit
Fix has more redundancy and error checking? Just guessing, no idea tho
Designer-Salary-7773@reddit
Likely not a fix for the HW that is susceptible rather a fix that detects data which becomes corrupted in flight and then alerts the flight deck and/or disables affected avionics. Just a guess
AboveAverage1988@reddit
I assume this is FMS/nav database etc, right?
Cesalv@reddit
Today saw in the news Iberia has updated all theirs
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Indigo has updated more than half it's fleet (out of 500 iirc). Air India as well. They are working day and night
UpgradedSiera6666@reddit
China Eastern Airlines is done too, Air Asia aswell.
EasyJet is done for half the fleet.
OszkarAMalac@reddit
ELI5 what is this weapon-grade tablet and why it can't be done with a simple Laptop and ethernet cable?
Sowhataboutthisthing@reddit
Or over the air while in flight with mandatory reboot
Mammoth_Professor833@reddit
It gets negative headlines but this is why airline travel has become so safe and just ubiquitous. The manufacturers constantly monitor fleets which give out so much data which then is used to correct obscure cases which could potentially be dangerous in basically every plane in 48 hours across the world.
I know it wouldn’t get clicks but this should really be something scene as proactive and very positive for manufacturer and fliers of this aircraft.
UpgradedSiera6666@reddit
That the transparency that the industry should Thrive for, good on Airbus.
imnumber1@reddit
Glad this is happening before my flight to Hawaii next week
DutchBlob@reddit
Apple: introducing our 5.1 mm iPad Pro
Airbus: Here’s our 5.1 kg ChonkPad Pro
badkapp00@reddit
iPad pro: one USB-C connector, 0C - 35C operating temperature, drop it from 0.5m (2 feet) and it's broken.
Airbus Chonk Pad: multiple connections to several different Aircraft data busses, operating temperature -20C - 70C, dropping from 2 meters (6 feet) with no damage.
tcpukl@reddit
It's funny the height is only 4 times higher. Hardly sound that very industrial.
toedwy0716@reddit
*damage to whatever object it lands on including reinforced concrete.
Accidentally drop it on a nuclear reactor containment building and cause a Fukushima.
Accomplished-Car1594@reddit
Do they use n-1 or go with latest and greatest and fixes the bugs along the way?
nothingbutfinedining@reddit
Really pushing the portable part of PDL here. That thing is ridiculous compared to the ones we use.
__iku__@reddit
I said it yesterday already. Its a 15-30 min data load. If worse comes to worse you do it before dispatch…
cloneman88@reddit
I wonder how many of these gadgets each airport has on hand
__iku__@reddit
Its not an Airport thing its an airline thing
lbutler1234@reddit
*I wonder how many of these are on hand at an airline's operating base.
(I say somewhere between 1 and 247,494,683,127)
__iku__@reddit
If the Airline has somewhat of a brain you got enough to do it on the turnaround without a plane having to be cancelled
wbg777@reddit
I’d guess each operator has a couple of them at maintenance bases, but probably not very many.
StoleUrBike@reddit
Massive Gameboy
nobodyisfreakinghome@reddit
Does it run doom?
RFBx@reddit
If the update is bad the plane is doomed
lamewoodworker@reddit
r/cassettefuturism is gonna have an orgasm when they see this
Robrad30@reddit
A GameMan if you will.
viroseo7@reddit
GameMan Pro Max Ultra Aviation Edition
la1m1e@reddit
GMan?
No way HL3 confirmed
Funtasmcus@reddit
A big Speak & Spell
Downtown_Eye_572@reddit
I understand aerospace isn’t a high volume business, but damn 5000 euros for a cable harness? https://aerosnip.com/product/pmat-data-loader-cable-98571-80955-1/
collinsl02@reddit
It's got to meet a ton of standards and come with a whole host of paperwork which documents all the standards it meets and when it was inspected, serviced etc. All aeroplane parts do, even servicing equipment.
After all, if there was a fault with this update cable which led to a crash you'd want to know that it was a legit cable with a history to make sure it wasn't faulty and had been properly inspected and maintained etc.
mrinformal@reddit
The biggest Speak & Spell I've ever seen!
GuidanceNegative8599@reddit
I wonder how a software update guards against solar interference
Penjrav8r@reddit
I imagine it adds some redundant checks and monitors to fix problems rather than avoid them.
Hairburt_Derhelle@reddit
That’s a serious update cable
spellinn@reddit
Good job he had baby wipes
DullMind2023@reddit
Something I’ve been puzzled by: how does a software update (downdate?) solve the fundamental problem, which is solar energy getting into the computer? Why is there no fix for the shielding?
OrangeAnonymous@reddit
Software can be made more robust against random bit flips. More error checking and storing variables in multiple places are what immediately come to mind.
CanadianTimeWaster@reddit
I feel there's a joke here about over-the-air updates, but I'm too lazy to make it work.
PinkPrincess010@reddit
Teledyne PMAT 2000, basically a flat windows embedded laptop with some custom data connectors
courtarro@reddit
You sure you're not getting it mixed up with the Cyberdyne Systems T1000?
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Naah that's the Governor
Over-Conversation220@reddit
Accchhhully …
The Governor was a T-800.
Robert Patrick was the T-1000.
sarcasm__tone@reddit
Seems a good bit over engineered.
That plug can be pinned out and adaptered to 2 usb-c cables.
switchmod3@reddit
Aerospace harnesses and 38999 connectors are low-volume, old, and often over-engineered. Get the ICD for the Teledyne and make your own!
sarcasm__tone@reddit
You really think you need all that in a low impact use case?
Sure the plane needs that type of connector... but a portable maintenance unit that sits in a shop for most the day does not.
wbg777@reddit
Portable Maintenance Access Terminal
pizdec-unicorn@reddit
The cable looks like a flexible hose. Is it a hydraulic update? Will the PTU make a different sound now?
UnisexWaffleBooties@reddit
PTU now identifies as a meowing cat.
enevgeo@reddit
Should go along great with the already installed A320 barking dog
theyeezyvault@reddit
Idk what y'all referencing but the Goosebumps theme song barking dog has been on my mind lately
protecz@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1o79b5x/a_jetblue_passenger_attempts_to_open_an_emergency/
yellowstone10@reddit
funnily enough, the closest animal sound i've heard to the PTU is a cat - the Pallas's cat, a.k.a. manul
Far_Tailor_8280@reddit
I will miss the barking dog.
LearningDumbThings@reddit
Wired directly to 121.5.
pizdec-unicorn@reddit
Only when you have to declare meowday
pizdec-unicorn@reddit
Meowing was the first alternative that came to my mind haha
switchmod3@reddit
Cable harnesses for aerospace use are sometimes excessively bulky.
AirborneSysadmin@reddit
The connectors are one of the circular mil series, with the nickle finish. 38999 or 26483 series. There'll be a bundle of wires in there, and the whole thing is wrapped in an expandable sleeping (aka snakeskin) that protects the cable from abrasion and other mechanical damage.
https://www.cabletiesandmore.com/flexo-pet-braided-sleeving?pid=6071&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1768785984&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0KrJBhCOARIsAGIy9wCob3z2uSF3oZiMQ8cUw2aMEv1JXZzX2PuW0IPMfOfQhV5HyFnVd4saAv9pEALw_wcB
Responsible-Spell449@reddit
Hey stop criticising this poor 5k$ cable, it is doing its best
Blue_foot@reddit
Did you see the video of a passenger freaking out about that noise?
And the FA and some other passengers are trying to calm them down.
laparotomyenjoyer@reddit
Hydraulic update make me lol
SuchHearing@reddit
Breaking news?
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Yeah, Airbus grounded all the new A320 for this update last night I belive
SuchHearing@reddit
Oh wow I didn’t know that!
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1p913er/airbus_update_on_a320_family_precautionary_fleet/
SuchHearing@reddit
Thanks!
Joebeemer@reddit
Paperclip: "Hey, I see you want to change the software, shall I bring in my friend the Wizard?"
nintendo-huy@reddit
That’s one massive OBD reader
t0mi74@reddit
*sad-its-the-same-in-automotive-serial-production-only-smaller-and-a-little-faster-noises*
Beneficial-Worth803@reddit
How do they test these software updates? I've literally never thought about it until this photo.
Less-Procedure-4104@reddit
Hopefully well
runway31@reddit
Why is it so big lll
lbutler1234@reddit
I assume bigger cable = bigger data flow? And/or it's the same type of deal as to why dongles are so big?
Either way, I can confidently say that making the damn thing work well consistently is a million times more important than making it small. This ain't a butterfly switch MacBook pro.
runway31@reddit
Is be curious how big the data files actually are. Like are all the control laws more than a few GB? Micro SD cards can hold TB in the size of a thumbnail. Now a cannon plug connector or whatever type of aerospace connector they use to interface I totally understand, but why the device itself needs a full qwerty keyboard and display im not sure, maybe it’s a multipurpose device that sometimes needs a big screen I dunno, its just funny to me.
arjunyg@reddit
Almost certainly the bulk of the time is spent on the flash erase, not the actual data transfer over the cable. Depending on the flash type, this can take several minutes even just for like 64MB. If it were a gigabyte of NOR flash? 30 minutes sounds right.
UnisexWaffleBooties@reddit
That's what she said!
/s
The pain is real.
runway31@reddit
You guys are seeing women??
zatalak@reddit
It puts the update on it's computer or else it gets the hose again.
patrick_thementalist@reddit
My Etihad flight out of Abu Dhabi on Friday morning on a A320(sharklet) was shifted to another A320 ceo craft due to an 'issue' with the initial craft. was this related to this particular incident?
CodeMonkeyPhoto@reddit
Geez even star wars tech is smaller.
--dany--@reddit
it’s an Airbus right, why doesn’t it get OTA updates?
independant_786@reddit
Wasn't the whole upgrade like 2 hours?
aloha993@reddit
Does anyone know how the software updates works? Susceptibility to solar radiation sounds like a hardware issue
Swiper-73@reddit
It's a matter of data density, speed of processing.and redundancy. Solar radiation can lead to bit flipping, which can be caught via redundant data channels and the type of data protocols used.
mawafu@reddit
This brought back memories. I worked for Demo Systems LLC back in the late 90s and early 2000s when the PMAT 2000 was developed before they were bought out by Teledyne.
tim_locky@reddit
This giving a Civic with a laptop and OBD2 adapter vibes.
Obligatory ‘TOONING’ (+ comedy ahh music)
cmde44@reddit
My Mom would love filming concerts with that.
AtlasBryson@reddit
But can it run Doom?
jim_andr@reddit
It should have been an Over the Air Update
noreturn000@reddit
No nintendo in the cockpit plz
fernandohg@reddit
I wouldnt like to be the software engineer of this, imagine updating the software and something goes wrong later. The software literally must have no issues, no bugs and work 100%
Seethesvt@reddit
I used to do that a lot. Funny thing was the Airbus needed the connector labeled 'md90'.
jcpham@reddit
This doesn’t look ESD safe
Low-Letterhead2557@reddit
Can you put dd wrt in it so I can add custom stops for my destination?
mnocket@reddit
Can someone please explain to me how, if intense solar radiation can corrupt data, a software update can prevent it from reoccurring?
Substantial_List_223@reddit
Probably added redundancy that may not have been there
opteryx5@reddit
Does anyone here know why the update couldn’t be carried out over the cloud, similar to how or I update our phone’s software?
Is the size of the update just so large that it would take much too long? Or are there security concerns with transmitting the update remotely?
cmdr_suds@reddit
As someone who’s product is OTA, the time is probably not the download side but the redistribution of the various files to the many subsystems. Often times those internal data busses are much slower then the primary connection. This process is also intentionally slow and deliberate. Create a backup copy of the original, transfer the file, verify the file’s integrity and only then replace the original. The subsystems are usually built around small, dedicated controllers that are not very powerful by today’s standards but do the job reliably.
oversized_hoodie@reddit
There are insane security concerns with that. There are also configuration management concerns. Airplanes aren't like phones, the Type Cert/STC calls out a specific software version. You can't just update to the latest whenever you want.
tracernz@reddit
Not via cloud for obvious reasons, but you can do remote data loading with FOMAX. That’s a very recent thing though and costs a bunch of money both for the onboard hardware and ongoing fees.
tailwheel307@reddit
The subscription fees for that kind of service would exceed the value of the aircraft within 15 years. And as a pilot our datalinks are not reliable enough to do a large update of that size over the air.
marcosscriven@reddit
As a passenger and a software engineer, I am extremely happy this cannot be done "over the cloud".
dpdxguy@reddit
Remember the software security guy who claimed to have hacked into Boeing and Airbus engine controls from the seat back infotainment system?
https://www.npr.org/2015/05/19/407868096/fbi-probes-hackers-claim-he-took-over-planes-engine-controls
The FBI, Boeing and Airbus say the guy didn't actually do it. OTOH, would they admit it if it was actually possible? Or would they quietly seal the hole?
Ramenastern@reddit
They're completely separate systems by design. Inflight entertainment provider is chosen by the airline, just like the seats etc, and doesn't even exist on a lot of planes. So yeah... No, there isn't any hole there. The claim "I hacked into the flight controls via the Inflight entertainment" makes as much sense as "I hacked into our heating via our PlayStation".
dpdxguy@reddit
There certainly should not be any data path between those two systems. Yet the FBI found the guy's claims credible enough to investigate. 🤷
snowsnoot69@reddit
Nope. The plane is airgapped.
General_Albatross@reddit
You don't update safety critical system by cloud. It's always done by cable, and by offline device.
-burnr-@reddit
"... It's always done by cable, and by offline device."
laughs in Honeywell & Williams
Av8tr1@reddit
Security. You want anyone with a wifi access to get access to a planes electronics? Or someone hacking the online source and changing the download?
Naw, this sort of stuff needs to be a non-remote update.
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
After Air India crash, i had to explain to a lot of people that no, an airliner can't be hacked like your phone using Wi-Fi ffs
Av8tr1@reddit
OMG, the stupid questions I got from people after that one......
The ones from pilots were the worst. A retired airline pilot swore the FO had accidentally shut off the fuel. When I pointed out to him that the FO had 1000 hours in the airplane, he still couldn't accept any other answer. Far as he is concerned, all FOs are incompetent despite many of them having more time than the Captain.
Sooo....wanted to rub it in his face when the CVR transcript came out.
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Yeah I get that we should look at all possible angles, but some people are just don't want to change their minds, doesn't matter what the evidence you show.
Someone said to me that even the CVR could've been edited by "Boeing".
exus1pl@reddit
Security, safety, certification.
anonqwerty99@reddit
I would not be surprised if a) these are older models and therefore not equipped with OTA technology or b) due to CS and safety concerns there updates must be carried out OTC.
NotMyRealUsername13@reddit
If you allow planes to have wireless updates you would have to implement a massive level of security as well to avoid malicious actors using that gateway to wreck the planes.
It’s just not worth it to since planes have mechanics working on the physically all the time anyway.
UnisexWaffleBooties@reddit
Security, I think.
AFAIK, there is no wireless way to update that software.
fygooyecguhjj37042@reddit
Looking at that absolute unit of a cable, I suspect the update must be massive.
WSSquab@reddit
Safety expansion pack installed, if you want to fly please purchase the new license for 4000000 USD plus taxes.
TFXGAME@reddit
Stage 2? 😁
JustLightChop@reddit
Hey Mr. Mechanic…You got games on your phone??
Nok1a_@reddit
For my piece of mind, how often planes get software update? it´s something common to do? Im more about, checkings after the update and be sure everything works correct dont want another 737 max
EasyEconomics3785@reddit
Not your standard OBDII diagnostic tool eh?
PinkPrincess010@reddit
Its not too far off :P you can get USB to ARINC adaptors too haha
darkest_ruby@reddit
No OTA updates?
JonBuqajIsSUS@reddit
Don't move a single muscle or the cable will disconnect
Roflcopter71@reddit
And here I was thinking you could just put the software update on a USB stick.
RawryShark@reddit
This console looks heavy af. But it is very pretty.
DuckWhatduckSplat@reddit
Can I run Doom on that?
MeinHerzIn_Flammen@reddit
No over the air updates like Tesla?
ARottenPear@reddit
Sounds like a security vulnerability to me. Proprietary tools and physical connectors with authorized users in a secure area is way safer than over the air where anybody within range can potentially make catastrophic changes if they can get access.
Meat-Seeking-Missile@reddit
Indian "aircraft enginners" doing a simple software downgrade and showing off on all the aviation subreddits 😅
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
The entire A320 fleet is grounded
Meat-Seeking-Missile@reddit
And not a single person showed off uploading the "older" software. Its just that Indians must find stuff like this god tier
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Umm, No? The major Indian carrier is exclusive to A320. They have to ground their entire fleet. An airliner with 60 percent market share grounds its fleet, people are interested. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with them showing they are working on it so there are no cancellations?
Meat-Seeking-Missile@reddit
Sure bud. Y'all have to take a chance and show off what little y'all do
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Cool. Thanks
Knees0ck@reddit
cool game boy
anselan2017@reddit
I'm going to tell my kid this is a cellphone from the 90s
ConsumeYourBleach@reddit
Is this in connection to the news story of software issues with the A320 thst was released a couple of hours ago?
Rumenapp@reddit
https://youtu.be/siwpn14IE7E?si=7Mb8RNl_qscnyAeL
dumpster-muffin-95@reddit
OBD1000
Foggl3@reddit
That's a very big PDL
Prize_Tension7528@reddit
So we go from floppy disc drive to this 53pin cable monstrosity….
_____rs@reddit
Can it run Crysis?
pasenast@reddit
“Ok, that’s done. Only 5899 more to go.”
bogposter@reddit
is there a reason they lug that massive gameboy around with that insane cable rather than a laptop with usb? Besides the obvious Airbus reinventing the wheel and selling it for 100k+
madman320@reddit
In aviation, everything needs to be certified and have multiple layers of security to be used on an aircraft. You can't just take a random laptop running Windows 11 full of viruses and plug it into the aircraft's computers responsible for its control. The amount of security risks you expose the aircraft's computers to is enormous.
Furthermore, ordinary computers communicate through protocols such as USB, Ethernet (TCP/IP), or Thunderbolt. The computers on the Airbus A320 (especially the older ones) communicate using a protocol called ARINC 429 or ARINC 615. A regular laptop doesn't know how to send or receive ARINC signals. The laptop's processor cannot interpret the voltage and specific binary encoding of this aeronautical standard without expensive intermediate hardware.
Ramenastern@reddit
Neither of these are Airbus-supplied. They're from companies like Teledyne, and there are options available.
That said... We're talking aviation, and we're talking safety-critical systems that are being modified using these devices. So yes, somewhat stricter regulations and hence higher cost than your average laptop and USB cable.
Megaflarp@reddit
Okay that's a kick ass Cyberdeck
TruePace3@reddit
Looks like a huge ass OBD reader
Impossible_Most_4518@reddit
imagine its just rs232 lol
timeIsAllitTakes@reddit
That's multiple wires to a multi pin connector, not a single cable lol
mrbluetrain@reddit
there must be a lot of data considering the thickness of the cable :)
Final-Breadfruit2241@reddit
I bet it's in airplane mode.... Bum Dum Diss
saxbophone@reddit
Nothing but plane sailing from here on out
quantum_hornet_87@reddit
If “build something for vendor lock in” was a photo
ChewyChagnuts@reddit
It’s just a big ‘Speak and Spell’
G25777K@reddit
Most A320/A321s have the update this morning and remaining ones should be complete during today.
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Up next, why this is Boeing’s fault
nobodyisfreakinghome@reddit
Must be a lot of bits - that’s one massive cable.
troaway1@reddit
Where do you insert the floppies?
ninjapilot2194@reddit
Trading Pokemon with the plane
Meat-Seeking-Missile@reddit
Indians trying to show
Shred_Addict@reddit
Shit keyboard tho
Big_Attorney9545@reddit
Why the heavy duty cable.
TGxVoluntary@reddit
Didn't Airbus cancelled PMAT 2000 recently?
Mihnea2002@reddit
What kind of tablet is that and what OS does it run? Is it proprietary
Click4-2019@reddit
What are the wet wipes used for?
MAGPIE-57@reddit
World’s beefiest BlackBerry
lukef555@reddit
I love aviation.
Is this breaking news though? Breaking?
p1749@reddit
r/cyberdeck will lile that.
GlumIce852@reddit
Why not over the air updates?
prex10@reddit
15 minutes? We were told 2-6 hours lol.
FatGimp@reddit
"Computer says no..."
ReturnOfTheSaint14@reddit
Can it run Doom, perchance?
50_61S-----165_97E@reddit
The Bluetooth device has been connected ah sucessfurry
wingmate747@reddit
Bluetoos disconnec.
DrewOH816@reddit
Updating with your current WiFi signal will take *** 126 hours 43 minutes 53 seconds ***
42ElectricSundaes@reddit
I bet those are really expensive
AvPlane@reddit
Someone send a virus in
sunshinedave@reddit
Thank fuck we don’t use those PMATs any more where I work….MBS Mini PDL was a breath of fresh air when we stated using them instead!
AdSquare3489@reddit
A cyberdeck, nice!
tr00th@reddit
Avionics guys gonna be eating good this holiday season.
marcosscriven@reddit
What's the betting that's nothing more than a Raspberry Pi and a USB cable, in chunky/colourful casings, and costing 1000x more?
caen1400@reddit
My hommie got the aux, let him cook!
MRM4m0ru@reddit
AOT clearly says there are some ELAC not data loadables. Those ones will need new ELACs installed and that for sure may ground few ones for some days in best scenario
CeleritasLucis@reddit (OP)
Source : https://x.com/trend_nosig/status/1994727756459118790
airport-codes@reddit
I am a bot.
^(If you are the OP and this comment is inaccurate or unwanted, reply below with "bad bot" and it will be deleted.)