Change my mind. I use Linux for a lot of things. Linux is my primary OS. But no amount of money can convince me to login to my bank account on my Linux desktop.
Posted by Sad_Work_2166@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 85 comments
I have been dual booting Windows and Linux for the last 15 years. I primarily use Windows for two things.
- Gaming. I know I can use Linux for this.
- Banking. Logging into my bank/brokerage account.
People can tell me that Linux is secure and what not. But the thing is, Linux servers are secure. Billions of dollars are spent on making them secure. Almost all of the internet works on Linux.
Linux desktops however, I never got the feeling that they are maintained properly. With other FOSS projects, there is a lot of corporate money flowing into them to ensure they are properly maintained.
But something like Ubuntu or Arch or Fedora, Who is maintaining these projects? Canonical or Redhat? I am pretty sure their priority is enterprise customers. Not someone with a 1200$ desktop.
The problem that I now face is that Windows 11 is shit. I detest MacOS thoroughly. I am stuck here unable to decide if I should upgrade all of my Windows 10 licenses to Windows 11. Not that I see an alternative.
dddurd@reddit
I think not trusting a browser on linux but on windows is overreacting.
Gaming is understandable. Actually people who are serious about gaming never use Linux. NVIDIA drivers are primarily targeted for windows, and will never be linux due to unstable kernel API by design. Windows provide extremely stable API for drivers.
Nelo999@reddit
Not even true lol.
NVIDIA drivers are extremely stable on Linux too.
Over 80% of people globally have NVIDIA GPU's, including most Linux users as well.
How come those people are gaming on Linux with zero issues then?
Windows does not provide extremely stable API for drivers, quite the contrary actually.
Have you seen the mess that is Windows 11 recently?
Reports have indicated that 1 in 200 Windows computers still experience BSODs daily due to unstable third party drivers.
Windows drivers are not even tested by Microsoft for stability.
The Linux kernel maintainers are doing just that, which is why kernel panics on Linux are significantly more rare.
dddurd@reddit
yes, the same driver code from XP compiled for windows 11. :) Good luck trying that with linux 2.4 to 3
boukensha15@reddit
>the same driver code from XP compiled for windows 11
What? It's not code. What you probably mean are binaries?
dddurd@reddit
code. i'm a driver developer.
boukensha15@reddit
I am a computer scientist as well. Code written in platform should compile in another, if the dependencies are met. These are all Turing Machines after all. So, saying things like:"he same driver code from XP compiled for windows 11" is like saying, "Sun rises in the east". It's not special to Windows or Linux.
dddurd@reddit
Only if api is stable. You know nothing about c programming then. Go theorist useless algorithm we real programmers never make use of
boukensha15@reddit
Nothing?
>Go theorist useless algorithm we real programmers never make use of
Useless? Dude, chill. Have some humility. It's like saying real engineers don't make use of calculus and bridges falling down. No wonder, the tech industry is messed up with bloated code, hacks everywhere, no elegance.
dddurd@reddit
I don't talk with computer scientists who don't even know what headers files are.
boukensha15@reddit
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
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MatchingTurret@reddit
That seems stupid. If the amount of money offered is more than the amount in your bank account, then not using Linux is guaranteed to loose you money.
oxez@reddit
How pointless is this post, from a scale of 9 to 10 ?
TriuneTraveler@reddit
macos was always the answer
Inevitable_Limit5688@reddit
lmao
StmpunkistheWay@reddit
This is so ass-backwards it's sad and not even going to bother responding past this.
Nelo999@reddit
You have it completely backwards mate.
Linux is significantly more secure when compared to Windows, not less.
All of those Linux distributions that you mentioned are maintained by professional developers, including the Linux kernel itself.
There is a lot of corporate money flowing in, it is actually a myth that they are primarily maintained by volunteers.
Heck, even nation state actors have contributed to the Linux kernel.
That makes Linux inherently more secure, since more eyes are on code, highly technical eyes that is.
Studies show that Linux vulnerabilities are not only discovered quicker, they are also patched faster when compared to Windows:
https://linux.slashdot.org/story/22/02/20/1915222/linux-developers-patch-bugs-faster-than-microsoft-apple-and-google-study-shows
Microsoft lets Windows vulnerabilities fester for months however and since they are the only ones that have access to the source code, nobody can really ascertain and fix those vulnerabilities in Windows than Microsoft itself.
Finally, since Linux has a larger market share globally than Windows, if one takes servers, smartphones, IoT and embedded devices into account, that means the Linux kernel has effectively been battle-tested and scrutinised into oblivion.
The same cannot really be stated for Windows though, where it is still the target of 83% to 95% of malware even though more internet connected devices in total numbers run Linux globally than Windows.
I mean, Microsoft was recently breached by Chinese hackers and still allows one to have an administrator account by default on Windows, letting people install whatever crapware they want and completely wreck their systems.
That makes inherently more untrustworthy and not less in my own humble opinion.
LateNightProphecy@reddit
You're mixing up feelings with facts here. Linux desktops aren’t “less secure” or “less maintained” than servers or than Windows. Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, etc. are maintained by full time engineers at Canonical, Red Hat, Google, Intel, Valve, and more
Nelo999@reddit
Not to mention that Windows is significantly less maintained and secure
Recently, Microsoft was hacked and experienced data breaches by Chinese hackers.
In my humble opinion, that makes themselves and their products inherently untrustworthy.
amberoze@reddit
Not only this, but the open-source nature of Linux means that literally any person on earth can audit the code for security issues. Now, they can't just change it all willy-nilly. That requires git actions, and those must be approved by the development team. However, the team at Canonical, for example, might miss something in an update, and Jimothy Basement Coder might spot it, and submit a bug report/correction, that Canonical will then see and merge into an update.
Whereas, with windows, the only people laying eyes on the source code are the couple of dozen developers that Microsoft pays. If they miss something, then users just have to wait and hope they catch it. Also, Microsoft has recently admitted to ~30% of the windows 11 code base being AI generated. Which, idk about anyone else, but I don't trust AI for things like that yet.
Prudent_Psychology59@reddit
clean answer
Feliwyn@reddit
LMAO
barriolinux@reddit
LMAO still
le_flibustier8402@reddit
LMAO yet
Own-Cupcake7586@reddit
LMAO some more
koulourakiaAndCoffee@reddit
LMAO x infinity
xe_xe_x3@reddit
LMAO x family
jerrydberry@reddit
Vin Diesel approves
theRenzix@reddit
Here is a good faith argument
Sad_Work_2166@reddit (OP)
How would I go about learning more about security in Linux? Is there a book you would recommend?
theRenzix@reddit
Most of what I have learned was spending time googling wtf is that and learning how both operating systems work. Redhat has a certificate you could go for, with general Linux use so if you really wanted a book I would start there however it's not needed. I think the books/course is relatively expensive. I also don't like red hat much as a company due to them sunsetting cent os.
Mds03@reddit
Its not our job to change your mind dude. Use your banks smartphone app I guess.
MoralityAuction@reddit
The vast majority of the stack is the same between desktop, workstation and servers, and even if you don't trust Mozilla (and you should, I'd say) Google very definitely care about securing Chromium on Linux as that's the stack that runs on ChromeOS.
Disbulia@reddit
How can you be sure that the same doesn't happen on windows or mac? Sure, there's a lot more money going their way, but how can you know it's being spent properly to fix all the problems? Maybe they just used that money to create a back door to steal your bank account right now, yes you in particular!!! I jest, but what I'm trying to say there's nothing concrete about what you're saying, and you're being too paranoid and not doing anything with it. You're not researching about vulnerabilities or how to make improve your security, just getting worried for the sake of being worried. If it brings you any comfort, even if their priority is enterprise users, is it still in their interest to do good with their normal users since bad pr with normal users will affect their image with enterprise users
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
You are doing it backwards.
I dual boot for gaming but there is no way I am logging into my bank on Windows.
So many of the reasons you list to not use Linux to log into your bank account are actually reasons to use it. For example the less than 5% share means it is less of a target.
This is just a weird post.
Admirable-Rough-6919@reddit
aw sweet a schizo thread
Jonrrrs@reddit
The only thing separating server from client is the installed software. Much security related stuff happens in the shared part of both systems.
Servers need to be extra secure and expose alot of attack vectors to the internet to do what they are supposed to. Thats why companys need to spend extra money to make them more secure. Nothing to worry about on a desktop.
I would argue, that windows is less secure, because majority of people use it, so its logical for bad people to develop majority of malware for windows
WiaXmsky@reddit
A password manager, 2FA, and not clicking on random attachments you get in phishing emails is far more important to securing your accounts than whatever Linux distro you're using lmao
MelioraXI@reddit
Then don't.
tomscharbach@reddit
Ubuntu Desktop is professionally designed, implemented, and maintained by paid developers/maintainers.
It is because -- not despite -- Ubuntu Desktop is designed, implemented and maintained for use in large-scale business, government, education and institutional environments that users can be reasonably assured that Ubuntu Desktop is secure.
Not so much with "two geniuses in a garage" distributions focused on "someone with a 1200$ desktop or a 600$ laptop", to be sure. I have little confidence in distributions outside the established mainstream.
None of this is to disparage community-based distributions. Although I have used Ubuntu Desktop as a mainstay for the two decades that I have been using Linux, I use LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) as my laptop daily driver in service of my rather uncomplicated personal use case.
If you believe that you need both Windows and Linux to fully satisfy your use case, then use both. I've used Linux and Windows in parallel for two decades because I need both to fully satisfy my use case. Many of us do.
Follow your use case, wherever that leads you, and you will end up in the right place.
My best and good luck.
FactoryOfShit@reddit
Security doesn't work the way most people think.
Tons of people think that security vs hacking works like a videogame, where "security features" and "protection software" like an antivirus are the Defense stat, and hackers skill and their hacking tools are the Attack stat.
In reality things are unhackable BY DEFAULT. Nobody can hack your microwave despite it having a computer in it - it's physically not connected to the Internet!
Desktops are almost always behind firewalls (your router likely includes one), meaning connecting to your machine, no matter what OS it's running, is impossible from the outside. So, there are three major ways remaining malware can get into your system:
1) Someone you trust, like your software vendor, gets compromised. This sadly is outside of your control. It's true that the software repositories for your distro could be compromised, so malware is served instead of actual updates, this has happened before.
However, depending on your distro - this is exceptionally unlikely. Debian, Ubuntu, and many others use the same repositories for desktop and servers, so a lot of companies have a ton of interest in keeping them malware-free. Something that could affect your desktop here would also inevitably affect you even if you use Windows - as servers would be affected as well.
Besides, the alternative isn't that great - we KNOW Microsoft serves malware in their updates ON PURPOSE.
2) There's a critical bug in the software you're using and a seemingly innocent operation (like opening a non-executable file or visiting a webpage) lets someone else exploit it. Security problems like these are in no way unique to desktop Linux, and you have the exact same best practices like you do on Windows or Linux servers - keep your software up-to-date!
Again, all the big distros have huge companies interested in keeping their distributed software up-to-date, so as long as you make sure these updates are actually applied on your system - you're no less secure than Windows in this regard.
By the way, this is the (number one, at least) reason why Windows updates are always mandatory. Microsoft does not trust its users with the ability to disable updates anymore, as idiots kept doing it permanently and kept getting their outdated insecure systems hacked.
3) You, the user, get tricked into giving a direct command to your machine to execute malware.
This is BY FAR, AND IT'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE the number one most common way desktops get hacked!!!!
Your OS in this case is, naturally, completely irrelevant. Ironically, there's a higher chance to get tricked into running malware on Windows, because most desktop malware is made for it (but it's just a funny oddity and does not reflect the security of the system in any way)
There you go, there's nothing factual that makes using banking websites on Linux Desktop any less secure.
painefultruth76@reddit
You are more likely to have an exploit via windows.
BranchLatter4294@reddit
You are making up imaginary problems.
BIKF@reddit
If you think Microsoft’s priority is ”someone with a 1200$ desktop or a 600$ laptop” then I have a bridge to sell you.
boukensha15@reddit
For serious, man.
Anyone who is slightly interested in tech news, would know that Microsoft's main business hasn't been Windows desktop for a very long time. They have doing stuff for cloud, quantum computing and AI.
lewphone@reddit
If you use Android, you're using a Linux-based OS. I've had zero problems with banking on that platform, whether using an app or in the browser.
As far as desktops: Google Chrome & Microsoft Edge have plenty of corporate money behind them, if that's your concern then use one of those for banking. Mozilla Firefox also has money coming into it, along with lots of developer support. Alternatively, nothing's stopping you from creating your own secure OS/browser, or forking an existing project and using that.
AcceptableHamster149@reddit
So... you think an OS which doesn't give you a choice about running a daemon that takes a screenshot every 3 seconds and which has "security" that's already been broken multiple times is more secure than an OS which doesn't have any telemetry at all?
You do you, Honeydew. But Linux is definitely more secure than Windows. And it's definitely getting active maintenance. As far as who - some of it actually is maintained by Canonical or RedHat. The list of big corporate donors to major open source products is pretty long, and includes names like Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Google, etc.. There's several foundations (the biggest being the Open Source Initiative, but there are others) which in turn spreads the funding around to the big projects to keep the lights on. Too much of big business runs on Linux, so there's no risk of it running out of funding any time soon.
xe_xe_x3@reddit
I mean... the browser is firefox, ublock origin with all filtres for malware and scams are enabled - i authenticate via 2 Factor authentification.
If - in any case - there would be a malware which is using a keylogger or something similar - i would have other problems.
And: in case of windows which is being rebuilt to an agentic os with an ai-account which has admin privilidges for my system, i would be more worried. Especially with Recall, which will take snapshots of your screen every so often without proper enryption.
Frodojj@reddit
If they want, they can even use Chrome or Edge on Linux too.
DFS_0019287@reddit
This is the dumbest take I've read in quite a long time. 🙄
notBad_forAnOldMan@reddit
Windows is notoriously untrustworthy. I feel much safer using Linux for my banking. But really I think what matters is the browser. The browser is what handles and encrypts your data. But, I am not a security expert.
a_library_socialist@reddit
brb, hacking OP's account for that $37.21
AssistanceEvery7057@reddit
You are absolutely right. Don't do it!
zun1uwu@reddit
Change my mind. You're ragebaiting
mr_kangaroo@reddit
Better tell your bank to stop running Linux on their serves, too.
davidcandle@reddit
You should definitely pay a load of money to upgrade everything to Windows 11. Then pay a lot more for anti virus. Don't forget to apply all the updates for a couple of hours every day, followed by endless reboots. While you're at it, download all the advertised games, buy game passes and be sure to send Microsoft every scrap of telemetry they ask for, plus what they take anyway, and make sure activity history is turned on. You can't be too careful.
Dragon20C@reddit
Wait until he finds out the bank website is run on a linux server, heck even the back end is probably linjx based.
kociol21@reddit
Honestly, this speaks more about you then Linux.
I get this, you don't trust Linux security. But that doesn't have anything to do with Linux. Multiple government and, for example, European Union agencies operate on Linux. Not to mention buttload of small and big companies, and of course, millions of people using Linux as daily driver for everything for years or decades.
It's also kinda funny to me, because on one hand there are people like you that say "It's not corporate funded, it's made by volunteers, everyone can see it's code, I can't trust this kind of security"
And then we have people that say "This is not open source, I can't see its code, I can't trust this kind of security".
And to bash on you, but there are some uber paranoid people, I personally know a guy that uses Linux, all kinds of firewalls and protection. If he downloads anything, like even a wallpaper, he first downloads it on Virtual Machine, skan it with antivirs etc. and only then after he is sure, he transfers it to his own PC.
Well, I use Linux for my bank account all the time anyway.
(and it is generally harder to exectute something remotely without your permission on Linux than on Windows, not to mention that vast majority of attacks are aimed at most popular systems so mainly Windows and then Mac, barely anyone cares to attack Linux)
Zettinator@reddit
wat
boukensha15@reddit
>But something like Ubuntu or Arch or Fedora, Who is maintaining these projects? Canonical or Redhat? I am pretty sure their priority is enterprise customers. Not someone with a 1200$ desktop or a 600$ laptop.
I am not sure if you know, but these organisations have their security teams. Almost anything that can affect a server can affect a desktop as well. As for the GUI stuff, then that's the job of the team behind those projects.
>Linux desktops however, I never got the feeling that they are maintained properly. With other FOSS projects, there is a lot of corporate money flowing into them to ensure they are properly maintained.
I am struggling to understand your mindset here. Are you aware that Microsoft's main business is not the desktop but Cloud and more recently, AI? Their best brains are not cracking problems to make broken Windows faster but rather doing research in LLMs, Quantum Computing, Maths etc.
So, I am not sure what makes you think it is more secure on the desktop than Linux.
kurupukdorokdok@reddit
The problem with people who hesitate to switch to Linux is because they keep using the Windows mindset, they're trying to make Linux as close as Windows, while Linux is not Windows.
Significant_Pen3315@reddit
windows is vulnerable because it has many ways of getting viruses, linux is secure because it doesn't have many
Ok_Meaning8266@reddit
I don't login to into my bank account either. Not from Linux, nor windows, nor my phone. I don't withdraw money either since these machines have an operating system too. I walk into the bank and ask the banker all the information I need. Then I spy him for days to make sure he isn't leaking my information. I also ask his relatives to make confim his identity in case I have to sue him in the future.
Head-Mud_683@reddit
Hahahah! This is silly. You can do online banking and gaming on Linux with zero hassle.
auraenergetica@reddit
im still in for PrayerOS tho, seems like a better idea
ImaginedUtopia@reddit
In this case the security of your information depends more on the browser and your bank than the OS. Also you should have 2 step verification enabled for your bank account, with it you should be safe no matter what. Also also on Linux your safe because of its relative obscurity and the fact that the few people that do use it are more technologically savvy than the average computer user. No sane criminal would target Linux users specifically because stealing from Windows and smartphone users is just way easier because it's easy to find them and it's easier to steal from them.
Medical_Reporter_462@reddit
Build your own OS man, it's not that hard.
Keep it clean, safe and secure, may be call it Temple or PrayerOS.
smjsmok@reddit
Watch out, though. You might start glowing in the dark.
auraenergetica@reddit
🤣🤣🤣🤣
stommepool@reddit
Why the hell would anyone want to convince you to use Linux or BeOS or Solaris for your banking.
zeekar@reddit
I'm not sure why a web browser running in Linux would be any less secure than the same browser running in Windows? The security libraries are the same ones used when Linux is a server, and the browser code is basically the same across platforms.
But I also don't really understand your extreme negative reactions to Win11 and MacOS. Win11 mostly feels like Win10 with a few cosmetic changes, while I think macOS is an almost- perfect combination of a *nix command line and well-supported commercial GUI.
ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit
The base of Linux is the same, server or desktop. Only the desktop environment is different. Don't worry about it. Gnome, Cinnamon, etc. are well vetted. Use a known distro, keep it updated and you are fine. The weak link will be the browser and internet connection. I would trust Ubuntu more than Apple or Google. I used Mint and can't find fault with the project (based on Ubuntu which is in turn based on Debian). The Mint team keeps everything in order and tidy. If you are paranoid, run Arch, Debian or Slackware and take care of the details yourself.
blankman2g@reddit
It’s no one’s job to convince you. If you have concerns about security, look into it yourself. If you’re not convinced after 15 years, not sure you will be. Have fun banking on Windows.
_mwarner@reddit
A lot of problems with this post. You can do whatever you want, but you're throwing shade based on false assumptions.
Linux servers use many of the same applications and coding that desktop versions use. They're not that different. You also say that a lot of other FOSS projects have corporate donors. Ubuntu (Canonical), Fedora (IBM/Red Hat), and even Arch (Valve, kinda) now have corporate backers. Arch is mostly community-supported. Fedora is a testing ground for RHEL. Linux desktops have value and are as secure as you want to make them.
You do you.
SoupoIait@reddit
Viruses mainly target what is likely to get them money : servers, Windows, mac. Less a desktop used by 3% of the market.
The safety of your device is your own responsibility. Canonical, red hat, etc will ship a fairly secure desktop, but they rely on you to not run weird scripts all over it.
So unless you download and run suspicious scripts everywhere, have multiple shady ppas, or do any other not securely-optimal behaviour (which would be weird given that you seemed preoccupied by security), rest assured, your desktop is perfectly safe.
I'd also add that, in regards to bank credentials, I'm under the impression that the easiest way for scammers to get them is to do fake counsellor calls, phishing emails, etc. If you don't have them stored, in plain text, in your computer, just be careful of the website you type them in.
Gabochuky@reddit
LOOOL
le_flibustier8402@reddit
IMO a fair comparison about this would be among web browsers, not OS.
b0bbywan@reddit
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
Adys@reddit
What exactly is in it for us to change your mind?
Don’t log into your bank account from Linux, nobody cares. Not your bank, not Reddit, not satya nadella.
It’s a waste of everybody’s time including yours.
Vellex123@reddit
Well I have been using linux for a while and I don't know what you're talking about but in this I feel like the computer is actually mine, on windows whenever I made a fresh install I could immediately feel the slowness compared to linux which made me less want to use my computer tbh, because it felt like there were others beside me in there.
But at the end of the day it's yours so do whatever you want really.
snarkhunter@reddit
An awful lot of the system software is exactly the same so it really oughtn't be an issue. And yes the Linux desktop install base is a lot smaller than the server, but that's a lot less reason to target it.
jerrydberry@reddit
Ok.
Eltrits@reddit
A linux desktop is not an entirely different entity that a Linux server. It just has a graphic interface and other useful programs.
MollenOS@reddit
‘Linux desktops however, I never got the feeling that they are maintained properly. With other FOSS projects, there is a lot of corporate money flowing into them to ensure they are properly maintained.’
????? Those same FOSS projects go into desktop versions of server distros??
Canonical (just as an example) spends astronomical resources making your Ubuntu desktop just as secure as your server, this is deeply false and I don’t understand how you mentally got there.
Same for Fedora. Your mistrust should be placed on projects you install yourself outside of the distro maintained packages.
Apple-Connoisseur@reddit
I do all my banking on my iPhone, simply because it's so much more convenient than it ever was on my PC, Windows or Linux. And it also should be pretty save, at least I assume that. lol