I may actually just suck and the reason I have a senior level job is pure luck
Posted by Tall_Company_471@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 41 comments
Well, here I sit staring at my mails
..."Unfortunately"
..."We regret to inform you"
..."We're looking for someone with a stronger..."
I've been job hunting for the past couple of months and it's been really soul crushing. I am currently employed as a senior software engineer at what is most probably the/or one of the largest corporates in my country of residence.
The reason for me job hunting; RTO killed my WLB (4-hour commute, but that's for another thread :D)
So why am I crushed:
A calculator app, not my first, and probably not my bloody last.
"Design a simple calculator app that has the base functionality of the Windows Calculator"
Okay, sounds easy, it is easy... Is it?
Do I need to create a Factory-Strategy-Liskov-Substituting-Dependency-Injecting-DRY-CRUD-SOLID-Generic-Implementing over engineered behemoth of a mess or is a clean, well defined, easy to read, easy to extend cookie cutter implementation just not gonna cut it?
I understand that I need to showcase my skills and expertise but ... I mean ... Is simplicity not the ultimate form of sophistication?
Or do I just suck at this, and I should thank my lucky stars that I faked it until I made it?
Any way
Hope you guys are doing good
agumonkey@reddit
These situations are very annoying. The recruiter can exploit both outcomes to his will. If you create a class system, it might be proof of skills or over engineered, if you go simple he can say you cut corners. If you can discuss before I'd suggest asking him to choose what style he would prefer. If you can, write both and send them, saying you can adapt to company culture / codebase.
good luck
coddswaddle@reddit
Hiring is a bloodbath. I do volunteer interview coaching thru a local engineering group and it’s been awful for a few years now and seems to be getting worse. Hiring orgs’ hiring practices are getting more complicated, more rounds and stricter judgement. I hope the hiring for Q1 returns to a bit more normalcy. It’s awful and i’ve seen objectively amazing candidates, people who have personally mentored me and or whose work i know, not getting past screeners. These are strong engineers who enjoy growing the juniors, improve velocities, etc. It’s wild and it’s hard to not take the rejections personally.
new2bay@reddit
Those are easy words to say when you haven’t already been unemployed for an extended time.
coddswaddle@reddit
I am not saying any of this is easy. I was hunting for almost a year. I'm coaching someone who is on their 2nd year of hunting. Most in last months' meetup had been >6 months. Decoupling emotionally from the individual applications to focus on the greater interview pipeline is a mental framework that can help get through the ultra marathon of job hunting. Otherwise each form rejection will feel like a gut punch and you'll be too punch drunk to get through interviews.
mohammadmaleh@reddit
In my case i was a senior in my country.
I relocated to a more advanced country with an extreme competition.
I found out my skills are below average and my productivity is a joke compared to others, the grind is real here
Im trying to fake it till i make it, but my confidence is at the lowest.
Objective_Fly_6430@reddit
What country is it?
mohammadmaleh@reddit
Germany, my previous working experience was in Turkey
If working complexity in Germany was 10/10
Turkey is 5~4/10
I believe it’s even harder in the US
Tall_Company_471@reddit (OP)
Keep strong brother <3
mohammadmaleh@reddit
Thanks, u2
mohammadmaleh@reddit
Thanks, u2
One_Economist_3761@reddit
I’m in the same position as you except I am currently laid off. 30 years of experience with a computer science degree. I wrote a database to track my applications. I wrote a stored procedure called AddRejection and it is one of the most used. :(
ForeverAWhiteBelt@reddit
Just do what it takes to accomplish the job and don’t overthink it. If you have no other inputs it’s not on you if they are looking for something more specific
TheGladNomad@reddit
This is really bad advice, most interviewers are expecting you to ask clarifying questions and figure out an ambiguity instead of just making bad assumptions.
That is best way to fail an interview.
Pttrnr@reddit
according to many recruiters my cv is very good. according to HR i'm trash. no job for many many months.
TheGladNomad@reddit
You should ask the interviewer. You can give both choices and ask if they have a preference.
Sometimes a question like this is class design and sometimes coding. The tricky part for coding is if you anticipate higher complexity functions like parenthesis.
If you write a case statement it will likely be deemed unmaintainable.
WeHaveTheMeeps@reddit
One of the most talented engineers I’ve ever met was on the market for six months this year. This man said things everyday that I quote in every interview.
It was the second time in his career he’d gone this long without a job. The first being the dotcom bubble burst.
So why did he go that long without a job? Sometimes you just fail the coding interview because they’re bullshit. They’re often not assessments, but rather rituals.
Also the job market is shit.
But there’s also ageism, racism, and sexism in interviews.
He’s in his 50s and his job search has become harder over the years.
It’s often NOT you.
Fishamble@reddit
The ai bust has not even happened yet 😲
kittykellyfair@reddit
can you share some of the quotes you reflect on every day please?
WeHaveTheMeeps@reddit
“I shouldn’t have to just remember!”
Context: we worked on a team with poor documentation on processes and running commands. We kinda ran off of tribal knowledge and we’d all forget something here and there. The team lead was egotistical ass and instead of documenting things, he’d always say “you have to remember” or “just remember.”
This guy snapped back and said “no, I shouldn’t have to just remember!”
“Ship one PR a day.”
Context: a call to keep PRs small rather than ship work in large chunks. Same team, but near universal application. Had terrible cycle times because we’d have large PRs, nitpicky reviewers, and required multiple approvals.
“I see this company has seven rounds of hazing.”
Context: when he describes modern day programming interview practices
chikamakaleyley@reddit
dude
i'm of the opinion that Senior interviews are much more about showing that you just know what you're doing. You can navigate to a solution
I've done a bunch of em - the ones where i get the job - sometimes i don't finish the solution, sometimes i forget simple things along the way. But i kinda carry myself like "okay cool i've this before, you can do this and that, let's give this a try"
So hang in there - keep trying. At one point i was 21 months unemployed. (Jan 2023 - Sept 2024) i had some perfect interviews (what i originally thought) that I didn't get the job.
Confidence and digging yourself out of mistakes looks a whole lot better than perfect, complex solutions.
Tall_Company_471@reddit (OP)
I actually made this mistake (they didn't mention it, but I think I did) on my second to last technical assessment. The deadline was tough and my normal day to day commitments had me busy as hell. I focused on delivering a complete solution instead of delivering a 1/2 clean solution. Food for thought, thanks.
chikamakaleyley@reddit
yeah - we always think our best foot forward is laying it all on the line, right? It makes sense, and it's not wrong to feel that pressure because, well we need income.
But in the workplace, that's not how we naturally solve problems or approach our daily tasks. We just code through to a solution because we just know how to code.
Take home assessment though, i like some parts of them but in general i've been liking them less and less. Mostly because there isn't someone there to really see how you work through a problem. I think that part is huge in a Senior technical assessment.
chikamakaleyley@reddit
It can also be - "Oh I don't think I've worked with ABC before but let's give it a try" - and you end up making something that works
The software engineer on the opposite end of the interview its trying to get a sense of how you work, what it may be like to work along side you. So try to treat it like a discussion, rather than an interrogation.
cbusmatty@reddit
>"Design a simple calculator app that has the base functionality of the Windows Calculator"
How was this given to you? Did you not talk to them first? Did you not get some level of information of what they do and how they do it? Are you just cold making an app based off of text prompts?
Help me understand, because you should know the answer to your question usually, that's a sign of a good senior dev is to make sure they understand the requirements and the target state before they start building.
Tall_Company_471@reddit (OP)
For this specific calculator app, which was the 3rd round of the interview, the requirement was simple; demonstrate your understanding Polymorphism - which I believe I did, very well and very cleanly. But yea man, maybe I just suck lol
cbusmatty@reddit
No one is saying you suck. But you need to answer the question. Your response here did not answer my question directly.
Part of being a good senior dev isn’t demonstrating technical skills, but understanding intention and perspective. You need to approach problem solving in a way that is bringing everyone along and meeting the goal. This may be part of the interview you’re struggling with. They want you to clarify, they want you to ask those questions. They want to know if they give you tasks if they hire you, are you just going to go build something or are you going to make sure it’s the right thing first.
Stop saying you suck and seeking sympathy, and approach your interviews with honesty, integrity, empathy and perspective. Make sure you go through practice interviews with the thought “why are they asking me this” help them picture you in the role
Idea-Aggressive@reddit
There’s a bunch of senior +15 exp currently unemployed and applying. Plus, others who are employed and applying. Also, many automated applications. And don’t forget about ghost jobs…
farox@reddit
No, if you worked in programming for a while you see that is REALLY not.
I have 30 YOE and had to look for a job a year ago. It took me almost 9 months to find one.
Just keep at it. If you have niche, keep hacking away at it. Tilt your CV to each job.
If your task is a take home, I'd keep it elegant and simple.
oVtcovOgwUP0j5sMQx2F@reddit
Simple with test coverage
Cool_As_Your_Dad@reddit
In my decades I failed a lot of interviews. It just how it is. You win some and you lose some.
But the current market is ass
dash_bro@reddit
Hmm a lot of it is intuitive decisions for this, isn't it?
More than the end product, I find the beauty in my projects comes from the "why" of whatever I did.
I have a certain project on my resume for which I had to write a custom cosine-similarity implementation that would shard a large matrix and load only blocks at a time for memory efficiency, then writing the result to disk -> loading only a batch of rows at a time. The "why I did it" has always had an impact on the technical folks I've talked with.
I find that balancing the need to write code with the need to justify writing it has worked fairly well for me.
Currently in final stages of FAANG interviews for mid-senior positions as well
Tall_Company_471@reddit (OP)
Good luck with your final rounds! <3
Fluffatron_UK@reddit
These calculator apps aren't about what you make, it is about your process. For an app like this: they want to see you understand the specification and get clarity where anything is not 100% clear, then you just need interface, unit test, implementation. That should be enough. The actual code and patterns is not what is interesting, it's your process.
SableSnail@reddit
Are you getting interviews at least? As practicing the interviews is really useful, I find at first I’m quite nervous but after several interviews I stop caring so much and then nervousness goes away.
TopSwagCode@reddit
What you should build, really depends on what kind of job your trying to land? Is it hardcore algorithms, then you should put your energy there. Maybe more UX / UI, you should make the most pretty calculator ever.
Perhaps I would also choose to create something that sparks joy and shows of your hobby. Fantasy football? Make a small app for it? Table top games? Make a database over your games. Bring your life into your projects.
this_sparks_joy_joy@reddit
These days, it’s skill AND luck…
opideron@reddit
Showcase the clean version. You don't want to work with people who value the abstraction bloat.
And yes, the firms that value simplicity are out there. I got hired at my most recent gig when I said that I like to keep things simple, and my interviewer replied, "Oh, thank God!"
Trick-Interaction396@reddit
I am mid at tech but good at all the other stuff. Focus on your ability to deliver which is more than coding.
Anxious-Possibility@reddit
It's normal for it to take months in this market unfortunately, which means you mostly need the stamina to keep going after the 999th rejection BUT on the bright side it's not you/your skills. As for the take home test, I'd do it as a real production project. Don't over engineer it but keep it clean. Document your decisions and be ready to defend them. That should help for any company that's sensible about marking the tests. If they have some weird crazy requirements that they're not telling you, you're not going to win either way, so not worth spending more time on it than you'd otherwise do
AshamedDuck4329@reddit
dude market is trash right now not you they’re filtering thousands with stupid calculator bs tests
GrayLiterature@reddit
Happens to a lot of people man.