Sometimes I wonder how they still operate safely
Posted by bkco88@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 410 comments
Spotted taxiing around Phuket on its way to Moscow this morning
walrus312@reddit
In todays age it is so easy to reverse engineer. Especially with the help of china. They likely 3D scanned it all and just mill the parts on CNC. Maybe these days just 3D print. They may be using this as an opportunity to develope these skills themselves instead of using china. They wouldnt even need 3rd countries to give them parts, just let them 3D scan the new parts.
eire-stiop@reddit
Buying from 3rd countries that have spare parts
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
The problem with that is Boeing and Airbus prohibited selling those parts to Russians. So any of those third countries company copping up to being the middleman is in deep shit with Boeing and Airbus, so no one will cop up to it unless some extraordinary guarantees are extended to them.
And frankly I want those companies to go out of business, if you were willing to upkeep stolen planes, you should not exist.
fly_awayyy@reddit
The companies you think are normal Airlines or MROs doing it with their own shell companies or some middle man to make the change of hands clean no deep shit for Boeing. Boeing doesn’t mind selling to a seller who complies with XYZ regulations. As far as what is done after it’s out of their hands.
ICre8F8@reddit
I agree with this. I understand that Russia is at war. However, nobody wants to see passenger planes falling out of the sky
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
I do, that is I do want them to fall IF ruskis chose to run them even though they know they are unsafe rather than leave Ukraine be.
If they make the choice to prioritise their imperial ambition over the lives of Russian people I actually want them to "enjoy" consequence of that choice
SillyRelationship424@reddit
Russia the country that has shot down civilian airliners.
Cute-Bus-1180@reddit
USA that has shot down civilian airliners as well
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Funny thing is USA admitted it. Russia/USSR usually spends a feww decades running through "It did not happen, if it did happen, it was not us, and if it was us, they deserved it" loop.
TheEnemySmacks@reddit
Russia isn't just at war, it started a war on its neighbour along with all the other neighbours it has invaded under the pretence of self-defence. Russian aggression is supported by the majority of the Russian people, so fuck them if they fall.
HalfShelli@reddit
You had me until that last sentence.
pluto-lite@reddit
It’s mental illness.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Well of course not otherwise their overflight rights would be pulled and they wouldn’t be allowed to land at this foreign airport
rafiwrath@reddit
"stolen planes" lol, youre nuts
youcanreachmenow@reddit
How? They were literally leased planes, that Russia re-registered when the invasion started. It is impossible for the lessors to retrieve their property. There have been several court cases about this.
rafiwrath@reddit
why keep paying money to boeing or airbus if they won't honor the service contracts (eg sell you needed parts)? if a company suddenly refuses to service equipment i depend on to function why am i supposed to keep paying them? they've broken the agreement... and why should the equipment be returned when it's vital to operations? this all feels way more like fafo on the west - the assumption was that sanctions are these all powerful mechanisms but as the world accelerated to a multi polar power configuration the strength of western sanctions are being diluted...
but to say that this is simply theft by russian companies is naive and nonsensical
youcanreachmenow@reddit
Theyre not paying money to Boeing or Airbus you numpty, they're paying money to their lessors. If you have lessors, it means you dont own the asset. They took the asset, re-registered it, then refused to give it back. Now because of the issues regarding servicing and parts, the planes are worthless even if they do get them back.
Russia deserved to be sanctioned. They invaded their neighbour and caused countless deaths.
rafiwrath@reddit
who they're paying is unimportant - debts get bought and sold all the time. what matters is that sanctions demanded that the leased planes all be repossessed which would cripple russia's civilian aviation and be an attack on their economy. sanctions also demanded that parts and maintenance on these planes by western companies stop in an attempt to ground them by threatening the safety of the planes... what sane country is just going to allow that to happen? as far as the planes are concerned the instigating action was the demand to repossess them so i really fail to see how it's the russians that stole them, actually the opposite...
you can argue the morality of the war in ukraine all you want. in my opinion the russian invasion and the ukrainian defense are both an assault on the working class and neither side is one i'm interested in supporting. fuck trump, putin, biden, et al for this slaughter...
the main point is that this war is not some anomaly but just another unjust war in a long line of unjust wars. the usa & europe have carried out a ton of bs invasions since world war 2, this is the world order that we created, kinda pathetic to cry about it when other countries decide to assert themselves under the paradigm that we have created...
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Difficult_Camel_1119@reddit
lots of them are stolen. Leasing companies that own(ed) the planes don't get money anymore and didn't get their planes back
rafiwrath@reddit
yeah, cause paying for planes you can't get serviced makes a ton of sense... were they going to get money refunded if the planes were returned? cause right now it sounds like it's the russians who are getting ripped off
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
It does actually, if you lešase a car you pay for it or give it back. Whether you can actually use said car is not the lessor¨s problem unless they would be the reason you can't use the car.
rafiwrath@reddit
sigh, this isn't one individual with their car, it's coordinated action designed to cripple an entire business sector and weaken an economy... no sane nation on earth would submit to those kind of bogus demands... just because western nations decreed something as law doesnt make it a global reality... and it wasnt that russia stopped paying for the jets but that the sanctions required that they be repossessed...
"The sanctions imposed on Russia required leasing companies to repossess all the planes they had leased to Russian airlines. Had this happened, it would have been devastating for Russia."
which shifts your narrative a tiny bit..
https://simpleflying.com/russias-100s-of-seized-leased-jets/
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
And that is supposed to matrter because?
RandomNick42@reddit
Because tankie logic
rafiwrath@reddit
huh? if that's the extent of your thought process why even bother posting?
rafiwrath@reddit
lol, if europe demanded all the airbus jets back from usa carriers by the end of november you think that would happen? would they then be considered stolen by the usa?
just because the usa and europe decreed something doesnt make it logical, legal, or reality (see the jets that russia still owns regardless of how you label it)...
llamafarmadrama@reddit
Maybe they should have thought about that before they started a war?
rafiwrath@reddit
the airlines started a war??? strange, wasnt aware of that!!!
Traducement@reddit
Bad bot.
rafiwrath@reddit
lol, ok
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Stolen, Russians had them leased, then sanctions come and the way lease contracts were written you either pay your lease, return the jet or after whatever grace period specified have stolen the jet.
Yes, they had a choice of either steal their planes or face whatever consequences the Russian "justice" would met out for returning the jets as they could not pay the lease.
No, I don¨t happen to bloody care.
rafiwrath@reddit
if the planes get returned mid contract do they get money back and compensation for service disruptions? the sanctions can easily be argued to be govt sanctioned theft, why submit to that and have everyone who was depending on the planes suffer?
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Becazuse unloess you specifically penned in provision for sanctions regime it is as simple as you either pay the lease , or return, opr have stolen the planes.
The owner of the plane is the leasing company and it has no duty of care to anoyone and anything inside Russia except as contract specifies.
You are free to argue that the theft COULD be justified by the pressing needs of the Russian people.
And I am NOT arguing that that point is wholly without merit.
But it is an argument for "we've stolen the jts and it was the lesser evil", not for "uh huh, we did not steal the jets, we jusrt can¨t pay for them for the time being".
rafiwrath@reddit
but that's not what happened. the sanctions themselves required the leasing companies to repossess the jets - doesn't matter about payments.. how is that not theft? the goal was to cripple russian aviation... you may support that but for some odd reason russia didn't and so they took action - hard to see it playing out differently in any other country...
repossessing equipment with the sole intent of crippling a business is the theft... once again - who in their right mind would continue to pay the lease or simply roll over and surrender your legitimately held property???
"The sanctions imposed on Russia required leasing companies to repossess all the planes they had leased to Russian airlines. Had this happened, it would have been devastating for Russia."
https://simpleflying.com/russias-100s-of-seized-leased-jets/
Gap-Most@reddit
No reason to explain or ask about it here, they’re just against everything that says “Russian”, calling you’re a bot and downvoting, doesn’t make sense
mnztr1@reddit
Part installed on western plane, then another part ordered to replace due to FOD, Who is gonna check?
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
The local civil air authority ought to, if the paperwork AND the part are not completely on th eup and up with all rules, however arbitrary they may seem to you, or me, the plane is not capable of flying until the deficiency is cured.
CATIIIDUAL@reddit
It is all about money. I would not be surprised if Boeing and Airbus knowingly supply to Russia.
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Suppose thewy di, does not matter unless they kept up to specs records and we get those records.
It is not good enough tthat the plane actually IS flight worthy, if it can not be suficiently proven on paper
torlesse@reddit
Come on, they would know absolutely nothing about it. Nothing at all. That airline with a fleet of one 777 is ordering parts for a dozen? Well, thats just commonsense really.
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Many planes are grounded (newer airbus models). To some extent I personally think that current aeroflot are quite safe the operator is a big company with govt support. We do not see maintenance related crashes.
Like you or a not, but Russia still one of few countries capable of building planes and have an expertise how to work with them, no matter what reddit thinks about it.
In domestic we push newer localized superjet (I personally used it 4 times) and we are trying to finish mc-21 to saturate the market, but obvious problems exist. Plane was designed with us englines and eu avionics.
FrankReynoldsCPA@reddit
I can't imagine being reckless enough to willingly board an aircraft designed and assembled by Russians.
I prefer my stuff from the developed world.
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Okay, no one force you, do not worry.
great_escape_fleur@reddit
This is a crock of shit. The superjet is a flop, your stupid country can’t build a crop duster.
Viratkhan2@reddit
It’s so often in aviation that crashes occur after shortcuts in maintenance. Either in the sourcing of parts or the work being done. And that’s in peace time condition without supply chain issues.
If fact that Aeroflot hasn’t had any incidents even with such extraordinary pressures is incredible. I would’ve thought it’s easy for maintenance managers to try to squeeze more life out of parts or delay maintenance windows. To not succumb to that under these conditions is fascinating imo.
jxmac@reddit
Do you have any data showing accidents are directly attributed to maintenance errors? (Without going through individual reports and counting that way?) Always curious to see the numbers but Canada does not aggregate that data.
Scared_Step4051@reddit
dream on, let's take Europe, one of the biggest aviation markets, you are contending with
North American market = also forget it
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Erm. When did I say Europe? In the current circumstances it will never get eu sertification. Political reason is good for protecting airbus from every competition.
The main goal is domestic market with only acter possible export to asia and south america.
dudload1000@reddit
No one apart from Iran or North Korea are gonna buy Russian made planes, pal.
They'd probably have a fair chunk of people choosing other airlines with Boeing/Airbus on the segment.
hostomel_@reddit
the only purpose of mc-21 is fill the domestic market, obviously.
East_Type_1136@reddit
russian market is too small to make the program profitable. If you don't care about profitability though this is another case
reallynewaccount@reddit
No, we are not dreaming of EU struggling market :)) nobody dreams actually. If you look where most of efforts of even Airbus/Boeing are focused now - it will be rapidly growing Pacific, Middle East, Latin American and African markets.
Aircraft production cycle is long and after Russia is done with domestic market (which will take at least 10 years) all those growing markets will be able to purchase thousands of new planes.
So, don't worry about MS-21, it's going to be Ok.
njordic1@reddit
Airbus is doing just fine. It’s the plane that everyone buys: the Airbus 320 has a crazy long order backlog of 4600 planes!
reallynewaccount@reddit
Who you are answering to? Did I say Airbus has any problems?
njordic1@reddit
Why do Russians get butthurt so quickly? Are you guys all issued an inferiority complex at birth or do they wait until Kindergarten?
reallynewaccount@reddit
Russia-related shitposter posts irrelevant comment to drag an attention, and one it's done - post another irrelevant comment.
So, why you guys so irrelevant? Are you all issued irrelevant, or is it a result of family problems? Mom didn't love you? Bad education?
observant_hobo@reddit
I have a lot of respect for Russian aerospace engineering, but the reality is it's unlikely this can succeed. The SuperJet (SSJ-100) tried this path as well, including selling to an operator in Mexico, and it has not been successful. It's just very hard to have a global maintenance network that can support the high levels of readiness needed to be competitive in commercial aviation. Airlines are savvy financial operators, and they look at total cost of ownership including fuel burn, uptime, etc. It will be very hard for the MS-21 to compete internationally when there are Airbus and Boeing bids against them.
The Chinese are a different story, and their domestic market is large enough a plane model could be successful with primarily only domestic customers. But they are developing their own platforms and moved away from close partnerships with Russia on the CR929 already. And that kind of domestic-demand-driven model of building commercial aviation in one country disappeared for Russia along with the USSR.
justyeswhynot@reddit
You thinking the decaying European Market matters, when it's unable to match growing markets of the global majority that actually support Russia 🤣
NoPipe1536@reddit
Daniil meant Russian market. Leave your dreams about Russian planes in EU/US for urself :)
RubinoPaul@reddit
> localized superjet
This one it still scary to flight on after all crashes and problems. Without domestic support it will be even scarier
reallynewaccount@reddit
Are you Ok flighing 737Max?
tx_queer@reddit
737max - 2 hull losses, 2000 planes flying
Superjet - 5 hull losses, 200 planes flying
I'll take my chances with the 737 max
reallynewaccount@reddit
737 - N1 in the list of the most dengerous planes in the world. 737Max - both planes lost due of the ignorance and KNOWN bad quality. Extra super prize - plane lost one of the doors because it was unscrewed! Years after hundreds of ppl died because Boeing used cheapest ever SW developers! And they used them why? Because Boeing is not able to develop all new plane, and has to use uncompartible engines, and to compensate "incompatibility" they used SW patch (aka MCAS) to make it "somehow flyable"!
How was that? "Monkeys supervised by clowns"?
Superjet - totally average failure statistics. Non of the hulls lost on regular flights due of technical issues.
US stronk: I choose 737, it so patriotic to die and know no monkey or clown to by punished!
tx_queer@reddit
What is a 737N1. Are you talking about NG?
"Totally average failure statistics". Can you link me the data? I see 737 max at 0.5 hull loss per million, above average. And I see superjet at 6 hull loss per million, definitely not average
reallynewaccount@reddit
It's "number one"! Hahahaha
tx_queer@reddit
Number one (I assume you mean the 100/200) has a hull loss rate of 0.87 in a million. Slightly better than superjet 6 in a million.
reallynewaccount@reddit
None of the SSJs being lost on regular flight due of technical issues. However, most of original 737 and ALL of 737 MAX being lost due of the bad quality/design. That's a real statistics.
tx_queer@reddit
So your theory is that all superjet pilots are just that much worse at flying than 737 pilots?
reallynewaccount@reddit
My theory is that B737 is made by monkeys supervised by clowns and situation with 777X supports this theory. And Boeing financial situation. And the fact that even so much corrupted structure as Boeing (nobody got punished for 737Max!!!) is in a situation when it loses even their traditional clients. Even in a situation when Airbus is struggling to fill the gap.
And Superjet... Shit happens. It's new guy and with new engines replacing crappy French ones it should be all fine with it.
tx_queer@reddit
What a wild read!
reallynewaccount@reddit
Chart: Once Neck and Neck, Boeing Loses More Ground to Airbus | Statista https://share.google/ZQdUHcpsjbjOmGmfh
tx_queer@reddit
Airbus outsells Boeing equals superjet is of good quality. Love the logic.
reallynewaccount@reddit
Airbus outsells Boeing due of the bad quality and poor design of Boeing. SSJ has no such a significant design issues to patch it with (badly made by indian vibecoders) SW update that kills ppl. I appreciate logic is not your best skill, so I've made an explanation. You're welcome.
tx_queer@reddit
You keep saying superjet doesnt have any issues. Prove it. Where is the data.
Just saying Boeing has problems doesnt somehow mean superjet doesnt have problems. Your fixation on boeing is odd to say the least
reallynewaccount@reddit
Hahaha... No boy, I didn't say SSJ has no issues, but if it has - prove it!
B737 has known issues - it's badly designed by monkeys and assembled by clowns (or vise versa, nobody cares). They so much wanted to outsells Airbus and make more money so they decide not to spend money on new airframe, but just "patch" the existing one. And they have choosen worst quality and cheapest way to do it - ask indian vibecoders. This caused hundreds ppl to die. No one punished. Becuase why? Right, because of corruption. So much corruption they even didn't bother themselves to learn how to screw the door properly.
This is well known. Whole world knows that. But we don't really know about technical issues with SSJ. Except maybe bad french engine, but Russia still able to fix this. So, maybe you know? Tell us. Because your fixation on SSJ problems is so odd to say the least - somebody has to help you to switch focus on something really badly designed.
You're welcome, as always.
tx_queer@reddit
A decent plane, like the A321 was a hull loss rate of 0.1 per million. A terrible plane like the max has a hull loss rate of 0.4 per million. The superjet has a hull loss rate of 3 per million.
What other data points do you need?
reallynewaccount@reddit
You didn't has math at school didn't you? Ok, I'll make a short class for you. Imagine you have 2 friends. Spider has bitten one of them. Now 50% of your friends wear weird tricot, so you probably kind of nerd. Then imagine you have 10 friends. There are no many toxic spiders in the world, so same happened, but only 10% of your friends now look weird, which is... socially acceptable. Why? Because it's called "low base effect". Same for SSJ. In absolute numbers there were many more deadly crashes of Airbus or Boeing in history. But they have significantly more flight hours, which improved their statistics, and any new crash won't make it significantly worse. So, now let's get back to your numbers. Only one crash of SSJ related to technical issue, and even that happened in test flight. But Ok, let's consider it as a "plane related issue". It will be 1 hull loss per 3M, which is 0.3 per million. If we don't consider test flight as relevant case, then it will be "zero".
SSJ is a new plane, and still it has much better fail rate than vanilla 737 or A310. The more hours it will have the better statistics it will show.
tx_queer@reddit
I am truly enjoying reading these ramblings as it has restored my faith in the american education system.
reallynewaccount@reddit
And by "American" you mean Mexican? Or Brazilian? Or Panama's education system? Where are you from?
reallynewaccount@reddit
Honeslty, between me and you - we both know why did you loose that "faith" one day :))) And the fact you don't understand such a simple school concept as "low base effect" is... well, how your teachers tell you in such a situation "it's alright, you're good at something else". However, in case you want to become better version of yourself:
Low base effect - Wikipedia https://share.google/25LXp2KpoJcZw3Ojb
RubinoPaul@reddit
Problems with one plane doesn't dissmiss problems with others
reallynewaccount@reddit
Well, Superjet is now one of the main aircrafts in Russia, and actually it had no serious accidents due of technical failure. So, in other words it has no "technical problems", unlike 737. So, in terms of statistics it's more safe to fly Superjet than 737. Moreover, most of accidents and problems with Superjet are related to French designed Sam146 engine, which appeared to be really crap. So, now in redesigned SSJ-New it will be replaced with local engine, so plane's main problem to be resolved too.
Amishpornstar7903@reddit
It accounts for a fraction of how much air traffic the rest of the world has.
wltspn@reddit
Five hull losses in only 12 years is not an optimal balance sheet. However, the last fatal crash in 2024 was due to technical issues.
reallynewaccount@reddit
First genetation of 737 is literally one of the most dangerous types in the world with 1 crash at 0.5M hours. Unfortunately, last genetation of 737 repeats the records. Meanwhile Superjet has very average fails statistics very comparable to the majority of modern planes. So, don't worry, everything is Ok with Superjet. You better avoud flying B737, remember, no one in Boeing management faced criminal consequences - so, no risk for them to keep doing what they were doing for years.
tx_queer@reddit
I'd love to see where you are getting these numbers.
First of all, usually you measure fatal hull loss per million takeoff, not crashes per hour. Seems a weird measurement.
Second, the statement of 737-100/200 being worst is crazy. They had a rate of 0.8 in a million. DC10 was higher. A310 was higher. MD11 was higher.
Third, saying max is repeating the original 737 in records also doesn't match the data. The original was 0.8 in a million. The max is at 0.4 in a million
But lets keep in mind we are talking about the superjet. At 3 per million. Its at least 6x of a hull loss rate of any other modern jet
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Im not expert, really. Just from the press I heard stories about french produced doors gaskets etc which we need to make locally now. Overall comfort is ok, just a regular small plane, not extra noisy, and no feeling that it will fell apart every minute.
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
"all crashes".
How many accidents were there due to technical reasons?
tx_queer@reddit
The story isn't quite as black and white.
Most of the superjet issues have not been with crashes, but with maintenance problems. Early fatigue cracks, shorter than expected maintenance intervals, earlu supply chain issues, and especially after sanctions more supply chain issues. So you are right, none if the crashes have been directly attributed to technical issues.
That being said, we have 235 superjets and in just over 10 years we have seen 4 hull losses. The A321 has been up there for 30 years, with 3500 built, and has only seen 6 hull losses. That cant just be a just coincidence.
MacSergey@reddit
there are whole loses:
2012 Malaysia - a pilot error
2015 - damaged during towing
2018 - runway excursion - a pilot error
2019 - lightning strike + a pilot error
2024 - incorrectly installed sensor
only the last one is kinda maintenance issue
tx_queer@reddit
My point is that A321 has been around 3x as long and has 15x as many planes in service. Yet has about the same number of hull losses as the superjet.
Yes we could say that superjets exclusively operate in countries with terrible pilots and there have more hull losses.
But sometimes pilot error is an easy thing to blame. Often times its how the system interacts with the pilot. It could be something as simple as somebody designed the cockpit to put the button to silence the undercarriage warning bell right next to the button to silence the fire warning bell. And the pilot accidentally hits the fire warning bell silence button leaving the fire to spread. Yes it would be pilot error, but the design of an airplane can contributed to that.
sinkrate@reddit
Even if the superjet itself isn't inherently unsafe and the crashes were entirely on the pilots, it still shows that you're more likely to get into a crash in a superjet vs. an A320
RubinoPaul@reddit
It’s more about safety overall, not technical problems. Too many people died because of stupid construction decisions. For example, during “minor” crashes wheels go though fuel tanks
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
Firstly, it was the only one crash with wheels go though fuel tanks.
Secondly, "minor", really? The second touchdown occurred with a vertical overload of 5.8 g. For 737 hard landing report if the touchdown g load was higher than 1.9g.
You want to think the problems are technical because it's russian plane. But it was the pilots' fault.
RubinoPaul@reddit
No, I think so because I live in Russia and saw too many articles and news during its creation and years of service. And not from some random media, even local ones. I don't trust new russian planes which were created in latest 25 years
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
too many articles
How much in relation to the number of flights?
RubinoPaul@reddit
Ok, I checked, actually it's not that bad. Still won't trust them lol
IndyCarFAN27@reddit
I think most of the incidents involving the Superjet are the result of pilot error or something else environmentally going wrong, rather than mechanical malfunction. But I could be wrong.
baronmunchausen2000@reddit
It's just that the stolen planes have been struck from the register in the Cayman islands or wherever they were registered in. Which also means that their maintenance logs are worth nothing and the planes can never been sold outside Russia. I wonder if rest of the world will allow these planes to fly into their territories.
dvornik16@reddit
The vast majority of these planes have been paid off. The Russian government subsidized it and helped to settle the issue with the lessees.
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
I really like how this story unfolds from both sides.
It was not about "stolen" like pirate ships, you know.
In 2022 it was two sided process, when eu and us seized all possible assets including private property of citizens, oilgarchs, regular and sanctioned companies, govt assets and called it "sanctions".
Moreover making impossible for russian companies to transfer money for every kind of lease, payment etc. I remember a discussion of the deal where some number of leased planes were offered to buy out. It was refused.
The small private house for 14k euro in the rural Finland of my friend, was seized by Fin govt since the owner failed to pay communal fee cause it was impossible to pay utility bills anymore. Okay, probably this crippled 58 years old painter was a real threat for the state. I dont know.
The same story with western companies in Russia was called thieft of course.
Lucy_4_8_15_16@reddit
Well only one difference the EU and the US didn’t start a war with Ukraine you know if Russia would just not commit human rights violations they also wouldn’t have to worry about that no?
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
It is.i do not discuss the facts. It is how it is. I only dislike the wording. Imagine you are living in a community where all people exchange their things and living by families. One family starts to beat the other member of community and everyone else decided to oppose the attacker. By saying "well, this power dril, car, microwave and money - it is mine now or I do not give it to agressor back, however I ll still think that it is the property of agressor". This is the punishment or sanctions whatever.
At the same time, agressor doing the same with things of community. And it is now "stolen".
medved16@reddit
i agree with you fwiw. stolen is such a loaded word and doesn’t accurately reflect the situation
akdanman11@reddit
Except it does, because those planes were leased (not purchased) and they were ordered by the owner to return the planes. They didn’t, that constitutes theft.
dvornik16@reddit
Localized superjet is not in service yet. PD-8 engines are not available.
iBorgSimmer@reddit
The Chinese failed to make more than an anecdotal dent in the worldwide market with their A320 clone, the C919.
Believing that Russia would achieve anything more is... wildly optimistic, let's say.
Big_Ad_7383@reddit
This plane for domestic market.
GilletteEd@reddit
“Russia capable of building planes” 😂🤣 you mean shells of planes! They don’t have the mental capacity to build anything that matters. Nothing you can say will change the mind of the world, it’s not just Reddit who thinks this way!
Big_Ad_7383@reddit
Pretty weird thing to say, considering Russia is currently the only country in the world that can build a plane that’s about 95% based on its own tech, materials, and components — even the U.S. can’t pull that off.
MagnusAlbusPater@reddit
There’s always the IL-96, but it sucks so hard that even in the face of sanctions Russian airlines still don’t want them.
Oscar-Foxtrot-Kilo@reddit
Well they are good enough for Special Flight Squadron "Russia".
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Why do we need now intercontinental aircraft when many routes are closed now? It is not a prority, but domesric market is.
MagnusAlbusPater@reddit
The range on that thing is so low it barely qualifies for intercontinental.
daniilkuznetcov@reddit
Okay.
mnztr1@reddit
I think the West closes one eye to this, because without Russian titanium, there will lots of serious parts shortages,.
tarenaccount@reddit
Turkey still trades with them. And Turkey is a Nato member
Constant-Arm5379@reddit
It’s mostly a Dubai based company that sells parts to Russian airlines. Also India has close relations with them, as well as China.
tarenaccount@reddit
Plus many chinese airlines fly over russia to europe and deliver the cargo to russia after flying put of europe.
gcalfred7@reddit
Just have a thought of Chinese planes, throwing parts out the window without actually landing
tarenaccount@reddit
Lol not quite. Since they will lose the permit to fly to EU quite fast if they do that haha, they still have to land to non EU/Russian soil to get things to Russia
Yellowdart00@reddit
He dropped the '/s'
tarenaccount@reddit
The guy I replyed? I know he's joking
atape_1@reddit
Yep basically they get new ports via 3rd parties. They just need to pay more.
gate2fate-@reddit
inop inop inop inop inop
parakeetinmahat@reddit
The SkyTeam badge is pretty amusing to see
Smart_Owl_9395@reddit
how are they still a member
Asystole@reddit
They're not.
Jaded_Maintenance964@reddit
You know and re them? Great pilots there. But just talk out u a
sibeliusfan@reddit
On a side note Phuket airport is great for plane spotting
bkco88@reddit (OP)
+100 to this. Fantastic spectator airport - both from the beach and that off airport cafe mentioned above. Was a nice surprise to the vacation
PrestigiousPen3569@reddit
I’m sorry, which cafe is that?
PracticalThrowawae@reddit
How's the airplane model variety?
bkco88@reddit (OP)
It’s decent! Lot of 737s and A320s as expected but I saw a 777, 787, and A330 in my short time there. I’m sure there are others but it felt like a good mix for an airport with only one runway
TheCouchEmperor@reddit
Landing there is also beautiful!
the_friendly_one@reddit
Wow, that's this planet?
Organic_Radio_2890@reddit
I totally agree on Phuket being an awesome plane spotting airport!! Side note, the Pattaya airport has this random mini graveyard, saw these taking off to Phuket in Jan 2025!
WanTjhen777@reddit
It's basically St. Maarten (SXM) of Asia, hehe
safereddddditer175@reddit
Phuket, you’ve convinced me to go. Thanks for the recommendation.
quarterlifecrisis49@reddit
Going there in a few months. Any spots you recommend?
ArashiSora24@reddit
There is a cafe next to the runway where you can just sit and chill watching the plane takeoff and land. It's a really nice spot.
sibeliusfan@reddit
Mai Khao beach is of course really cool, it’s 100 baht and quite a walk to get there but it was worth it. It’s mostly landings but if you stick around long enough you’ll see some takeoffs as well. Besides that I’d check this out https://www.spotterguide.net/planespotting/asia/thailand/phuket-hkt-vtsp/
SadAbroad4@reddit
They most likely are not still safe. Suspect they are are using after market parts that have not been tested/manufactured to standard etc etc. roll the dice six times five you win one you loose. That one lose is a complete failure and crash killing hundreds.
beeeeepboop1@reddit
I’ve flown Aeroflot several times (approx. 10 years ago) and obviously lived, but even back then, cabins were dirty and cosmetically falling apart (my seatmate had his innermost window pane sitting on his lap during landing, lol). No comment on structural safety, but I would absolutely never ever fly with them again.
VoiceActorForHire@reddit
Opposite experience here. Clean good plane (A330 I believe) and the best food I've had on an airplane yet.
bazhvn@reddit
I flew Aeroflot couple times when I first came to Finland, they have good flights (short travel time, extra luggage) to Vietnam lol. I think one year they flew the SJ1000 for the HEL-SVO trip.
DogWarovich@reddit
Even Iran manages to obtain new aircraft and spare parts for them. The only way to completely prevent the transfer of aircraft and spare parts to the country is to destroy all examples of these aircraft and all spare parts worldwide.
oXI_ENIGMAZ_IXo@reddit
How have Boeing/Airbus not figured out what every used car lot has and that is to put immobilizers in? Flip the kill switch one by one until the only planes flying over Russia are their own nationally produced airliners.
It doesn’t happen because even though Boeing and Airbus don’t want to publicly deal with Russia for obvious reasons, they still make money selling parts indirectly to them. Business is business and war is a great business to be in.
Sea_Beginning_5009@reddit
Because you can easily remove it. Whatever the no fly switch is is maybe 0.01% of the plane
oXI_ENIGMAZ_IXo@reddit
I think it’d be much easier to hide on a massive airplane. Even if they find it, cars these days can detect if something is missing and shut down. Or the subscription fees that drivers now pay for certain features? You’re not paying for your plane or maintenance, manufacturer disables your ability to start engines or control your hydraulics.
If auto manufacturers can shut off a vehicle that has been stolen remotely, why can’t aircraft manufacturers?
DissociatedOne@reddit
F14 comes to mind
Ratiofarming@reddit
Which is the explanation I've heard for there to be no flying F-14 in the west.
tf1064@reddit
I think there's a meme template for this
"Operate safely .... right??"
analogkid01@reddit
My dad once flew from Moscow to St. Petersburg on a work trip and said it was the most terrifying experience of his life.
great_escape_fleur@reddit
I hear they have an in with Kazakhstan where they can get serviced.
p3nt4gon@reddit
bc of other countries that still trade w russia
CJRD4@reddit
This randomly popped up in my feed! For the uninitiated: what aircraft is this and what’s wrong with it?
tomas1381999@reddit
It belongs to russian company Aeroflot, which is under sanctions and should be unable to source spare parts
CJRD4@reddit
Thanks for the explanation!
tomas1381999@reddit
You are welcome friend!
xtremesaturn@reddit
Keep watching CNN bud. The way the world operates is not how the TV tells you.
tomas1381999@reddit
Note how I said "should"
Ill_Cantaloupe7734@reddit
British Columbia?
Horat1us_UA@reddit
USA basically lifted sanctions on them now. They can get whatever they want through Belavia
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
To hell with that. Those planes lack a dependable chain of custody and maintenance records. Means they are all junk by default
Horat1us_UA@reddit
You think sanctions somehow affect ability to log maintenance?
DeviantDork@reddit
You cool with flying on planes that don’t have certified parts or maintenance records?
And no, “just trust me bro” is thankfully not considered certified maintenance records for advanced countries.
fly_awayyy@reddit
The parts and maintenance records and highly likely to be still in compliance. It would be for all of these airline best interest to operate them according to ICAO standard. Also you do realize especially with this wide-body they fly outside of Russia. If they weren’t air worthy they wouldn’t be allowed overflights much or less the ability to land. If a resolution is released for peace talks and sanctions are lifted would not be in their interest to have hundred of non airworthy fleets for western operation…
baronmunchausen2000@reddit
Nope. How does a Russian airline prove that a part came from GE and not from Joe Blow who operates a shade tree repair shop? It's not like they can whip out an invoice from GE complete with a bill of lading. A maintenance log using parts with suspect lineage, even if genuine, is going to be useless to a western buyer or insurance company.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Nope what lmao? Your funny. How do they prove well for starters there’s a guy in here who works for an engine manufacturer…there’s records with said engines with for the service and overhauls. For your modern engines on the Russian Civil fleet there really no getting parts from “Joe Blow” or reverse engineering like the Iranians need to do for 50yrd old airframes there are no parts for…getting focal parts for 320s and 777s in service is not that difficult. You get them through back door channels.
baronmunchausen2000@reddit
".. back door channels or friendly countries like China, UAE."
That's the problem internet stranger. Every part has a serial number that can be used to trace maintenance and ownership all the way to the manufacturer. If you use a backdoor channel part, it is no different than one put together by Joe Blow. So, in other words, in the world of aircraft insurance and sales, this is a no-no. As to friendly countries like China or UAE, Do you think any certified MRO with a relationship with Boeing or Airbus will willingly jeopardize said relationship for a few million in sales to an embargoed country?
In other words, NOPE. These smuggled and backdoor parts will not be in compliance.
fly_awayyy@reddit
I think I’ve said it 4 times now the engine guy is in here on this thread “Internet stranger.” But go on nothing you keep saying makes any sense and is not supported by the fact Russian airliners have overflights and landing rights in foreign countries. So under ICAO standards they’re being recognized as safe but idk must be made up?
You do realize your back door part is no different than using a parts vendor. Your part is gonna come tagged, documented, and certified. You think if they purchase spare parts inventory from Air China none of Air Chinas parts have documentation? Oh please.
Cute-Bus-1180@reddit
So you believe american maintenance guys are faultless?
I think you’ll have to read up on this
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
Did flight 5X2976 have certified parts or maintenance records?
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Sometimes crash happens despite rules being followed, therefore rules stupid. Interesting logic...
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
As interesting as yours.
Having paper doesn't mean reliability.
I don't say that rules stupid.
But rules are only words, not facts
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
As interesting as yours.
Having paper doesn't mean reliability
DeviantDork@reddit
What do you mean? All US aircraft have certified parts and maintenance records.
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
Agreed. And how did that help him?
Certificates and logbooks are just paper. Having paper doesn't mean the engine won't come off during takeoff. Just as having no paper doesn't mean the plane will crash
Sc0nnie@reddit
Over 600 Russian planes cannot leave Russia because they were literally STOLEN from foreign leasing companies in 2022. They will be lawfully seized if they fly outside Russia.
Cute-Bus-1180@reddit
"Western aircraft-leasing companies have been trying to recover hundreds of planes that are in Russia. They were required under sanctions in protest of Russia’s attack on Ukraine to sever contracts with Russian customers."
Who do they comply to?
It’s a business, nothing to do with Russia and their war.
If they just would go on with their contracts, what would have happened?
Now they’re out of their fees and their planes, Russia out of OEM parts to keep their fleet safe.
Who is gaining anything from this nightmare
Sc0nnie@reddit
“Who is gaining anything from this nightmare”
The man that ordered the invasion and also ordered the Russian airlines to steal the leased aircraft.
EagleEye_2000@reddit
Oh boy. Here we go again.
Over the past three years, Russia has stolen, AND then reached agreement on those stolen aircraft by paying lessors to buy said aircraft. Some were returned to lessors with payment but the bulk were re-registered and then subsequently paid to the lessors.
This is across airlines like Aeroflot, S7, Rossiya, etc. The date on that article of the article is a tell-tale sign of it (Mar. 29, 2022)
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russias-aeroflot-settle-deals-last-36-planes-leased-west-2025-06-05/
https://simpleflying.com/russia-2bn-airplane-buyback-lessors/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-allocates-another-123-bln-company-buying-planes-western-lessors-2024-01-17/
Sc0nnie@reddit
Yes they have started the process of negotiating purchases of a small percentage of the shamelessly stolen aircraft.
baronmunchausen2000@reddit
It does. First, these aircraft have been stricken from western registers, so their maintenance logs are void as well. Second, the parts being used in these airplanes have to be purchased in the gray market, which means there is no valid chain of custody. For example, even if a company in China buys a part legally from GE, say, it cannot legally sell it to Aeroflot, unless it wants to be blacklisted. Aeroflot can buy the part from the Chinese company at inflated prices but the chain of custody stops there. No chain of custody, no valid maintenance log.
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
Yes, it introduced a three years period when officially no one could legally sell spares to Russia, now, even if that has changed, I can't see anyone copping up to being the middleman in a black market deal.
So unless they can fully prove that particular air frame was Only serviced using the parts they bought legally before the sanctions hit, the whole log is worthless and the airframe good for scrap. Or for complete strip down and making sure every part is up to spec.
I figure that costs more than getting new planes. But maybe it would be possible to do that economically given how many planes we talk about.
curiousengineer601@reddit
What does a complete strip down mean? I am trying to get my head around what would be required to get an aircraft like an airbus that had a 3 year maintenance log gap back in the sky.
Would Airbus have to be involved?
pope1701@reddit
Ability, no, but willingness and reliability? Absolutely.
GroovinJaxx22L@reddit
I'm reading this thread and while I understand the details, I don't understand what you're all arguing about?
Adjutant_Reflex_@reddit
For all intents and purposes most Russian planes will have a multiyear gap in the logs and maintenance where no one can trust that it was done properly.
It’s entirely possible everything was done by the book with legit parts by people who just want to keep the planes safe in the air, but we don’t know. And not knowing makes these things effectively worthless to any legitimate operator.
GroovinJaxx22L@reddit
That's what I deduced above. Makes sense. It's a massive liability and a safety issue to allow airplanes into an airspace that have no documented repairs and maintenance. Not to mention obtaining parts from certified distributors.
Side note: I fully support the Right to Repair law.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Well you mentioned airspace…the fact that this plane was photographed at a airport outside of Russia and commonly does using overflight rights of varying countries still shows that those countries regulators find compliance with ICAO standards and their own safety standards. There is something to be said about that.
pope1701@reddit
I think, it's essentially about if anybody can trust Russian documentation anymore.
Snraek@reddit
Do you even work in aviation? Not a single one of these planes will ever fly to Europe or the US.
If the MRO is no longer OEM-certified, yes you can log maintenance tasks but that doesn't mean shit to the authorities.
ErmakDimon@reddit
I mean those MROs were certified to begin with, and they didn't lose their expertise, training or standards overnight just because someone decided to sanction them. Frankly speaking civilian aircraft maintenance organizations shouldn't be sanctioned in the first place, but oh well.
Legal? Depends on who you ask. According to Russian law, 100% legal. EU/US? Ehhh.
Safe? Most definitely. In Russia, if a plane crashes people go to prison. So maintenance personnel would not sign off on shoddy/unsafe work. They are acutely aware of the risks and hazards the situation in the country poses, so they pay extra attention to maintenance.
ProfessionalTruck976@reddit
People going to prison does not mean a thing in a system where employees were encouraged to not log faults. I am not trusting any plane that went through owner like that unless it has been stripped down to structural elements and completely recertified
Horat1us_UA@reddit
> Do you even work in aviation? Not a single one of these planes will ever fly to Europe or the US.
That wasn't the question tho. These planes will probable more reliable than any soviet/russian planes they used before.
UpbeatAssumption5817@reddit
No it means they're making up serial numbers to make sure it match
bkco88@reddit (OP)
Ah - did not realize they had that backdoor available to them now
MisLeadingUserPost@reddit
Now? What do you think a lot of shady companies were profiting from scrapping boeing/airbus that were totally able to fly?
bkco88@reddit (OP)
Well, a more official backdoor at least. They were still cannibalizing multiple other aircraft as recently as a month ago. Not exactly a recipe for safety success
MisLeadingUserPost@reddit
Not a recipe for success? The aircraft were being sold for multiple times its normal value just because they couldn’tdo anything else without raising many more eyebrows. Everyone knows? Everyone does. Same as russian gas and oil, Europe has never stopped buying.
T33-L@reddit
You know what they say… when the river runs red, take the dirt track instead
CARCaptainToastman@reddit
🫤
alettriste@reddit
🤔😂
itswednesday@reddit
Hang on…
MP4_26@reddit
It’s pretty recent, some details of when here: https://apnews.com/article/belarus-prisoners-us-lithuania-c217e9bb36b9303e0fa2acd8e0492b37#
Sc0nnie@reddit
“Who is gaining anything from this nightmare”
The man that ordered the invasion and also ordered the Russian airlines to steal the leased aircraft.
rip_van_tinkle_0861@reddit
What you have a hard time doing is understanding how the world works.
bkco88@reddit (OP)
Woah, easy bro
Interesting-Fact717@reddit
Hehe😁😅
ManufacturerLost7686@reddit
They don't operate safely.
If we would just take the sanctions seriously and stop selling them INOP stickers, we could cripple the entire russian passager fleet.
den40den@reddit
It's only possible bc of businesses still making business with rissians, directly or indirectly, and not enforcing (our own) restrictions already in place. Once businesses and governments cancel them completely, they'll stop flying safe.
Cute-Bus-1180@reddit
Why? What’s wrong with that aircraft?
Did I miss something in this photo?
Gumbode345@reddit
They don’t is the answer.
anonymeplatypus@reddit
They don’t.
ConstantFar5448@reddit
They’ve cannibalised some of their fleet for parts, but also they do still fly to countries with parts readily accessible/available who don’t mind selling to them.
New_Falcon_454@reddit
Probably not so safely. And not only that. They are freely strutting around the world sporting a symbol of criminal bolshevik regime, under which millions were killed (both their own and in occupied nations). Imagine Lufthansa flyng with a nationasocialist swastika?…
ByTheWae@reddit
Explain your comment.
New_Falcon_454@reddit
Check the logo of the ruZZian airline.
ByTheWae@reddit
Yes I know. I want you to explain you comment. It is utter nonsense so I want to hear your thoughts.
New_Falcon_454@reddit
Comment is my thoughts. Read it. If then it is still “nonsense” to you, no explaining will help.
ByTheWae@reddit
So you can't explain it?
New_Falcon_454@reddit
Dear Sokrates wannabe,
I could, but
1) I don't feel like it's worth time and effort;
2) it is likely to drift off-topic here.
Go enlighten yourself in European history of the previous century.
ByTheWae@reddit
Sure thing. Always funny how little facts the "communism is bad" crowd can produce when asked.
gpacster@reddit
Russian commercial jets are struggling for parts & airlines are relying on unofficial import routes, cannibalize planes for parts, resulting in a higher rate of technical failures and safety incidents.
3-is-MELd@reddit
Objectively and according to modern regulations, Russian airlines are not operating their aircraft safely.
I'm sure that we've all seen the video of the A320 with several MFDs inop, APU inop, autopilot inop, braking system deferral, landing gear restrictions, fuel pump inop, adn FMC inop. When it takes thirty minutes to go through all of the deferred items before flight, you know that your plane is right fucked.
hobowithashotgun2990@reddit
I work for the largest commercial engine manufacturer in the world. You can deduct with reasoning who that is. I’m the USM purchasing manager and I will say with 99% certainty that there are PO’s and trace docs with my name on them in Russia. The most likely route is via China and India. We can make these end users sign statements… they hold zero weight in those countries.
fly_awayyy@reddit
How does that work with engine problems with for example the latest CFM or GTF engines and they need a shop visit. Do they swap engines with an operator in those countries?
hobowithashotgun2990@reddit
There are shops in China now; Zuhai, Xiamen and Chengdu. They are third party MRO’s outside of the OEM network with some crossover dependent on airline contract. Also… gray shops.
bigstankybeef@reddit
Are you with CFMI? I work in the USM world and Zhuhai is a big buyer. I manage mainly V25 and -5B’s/-7B’s. With the AOG technics incident, I’m curious to see if there’s any more shops or suppliers providing fake 8130’s. Seems like demand in the hot section is crazy right now, and trace stigma is real. Hopefully that doesn’t become a larger issue over there.
hobowithashotgun2990@reddit
I’m part of a JV between GE and Safran; not CFMI proper but for all intents and purposes, yes. No fake 8130’s or EASA’s that I have seen. We have had plenty of sketchy shops omitting DER and PMA from their docs which is a pretty big deal as well.
Everything is hot. -7B is insane, -5B is not too far behind. Core and HPT is still the hottest, LPT is heating up again. Certain items in the fan module are on allocation at GE due to new production issues. If it is -7BE or PIP, it is gold.
Honeywell still sucks, can’t remember a time before 2020 that they didn’t… they are artificially creating massive shortages on LRU’s due to internal issues. Specifically valves and HMU’s. 12-15 month lead times. Pricing has increased 400% on some items.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Figured as much wouldn’t be surprised if the UAE helps out through their “vendors” as well. As far as receiving the engine with a known serial number or data plate from a Russian operator, anything prohibiting it from being touched or since it was delivered by said MRO it’s now clean?
hobowithashotgun2990@reddit
They run kerosene through their engines so some last ops will not accept LRU’s or parts from the ass end of the engine. Typically not a problem. As long as the engines were returned from lease or were torn down prior to the war, we can accept parts. Some airlines are very picky. Others do not care.
airbnbsquatter@reddit
Good. Countries shouldn’t be shut out of the global financial system
the_friendly_one@reddit
They don't. Some just haven't crashed yet.
BodybuilderSalt9807@reddit
Well there has not been any reported crashes (although it could be hidden) so it must be operating ok.
Amazing_Doctor_351@reddit
Ummmm. No matter where the part comes from you have to consider who is installing it…. I have seen wooden toilet seats on RF domestic flights…Nostrovia!
EchoesInBackpack@reddit
Jokes aside, is there any reliable metric industry uses to track reliability by company?
Swiper_The_Sniper@reddit
Just going off of common sense here, but having an accurate and unbiased metric like that seems almost impossible (depends on the industry as well ig)
vorko_76@reddit
Aircraft are globally safe even if poorly maintained. Aeroflot (and Russia more globally) are quite experienced and know how to work well. (Look at Iran also)
However, they cant create parts from nowhere (e.g. engine LLP) or repair some (avionics). Practically many aircraft are operated with some systems inop. You can find some PFR on some forums… these are frightening but aircraft still fly.
Risks are obviously higher than before. We have seen some accidents and will see more over time.
asian_tea_man@reddit
I am friends with a pilot who flies for Aeroflot, and I asked him about this a few weeks ago.
He said that since sanctions were placed, Russian maintenance and aircraft checkups, both preflight and scheduled, have become extremely intense. They’re taking much longer per-aircraft and the entire process is under much more scrutiny. Much stricter tolerances and they are far more willing to ground flights for minor issues.
They’re still getting most original parts, mainly from third-party proxy nations. Actually Iran surprisingly engineered a fairly sophisticated parts supply chain and manufacturing system so Aeroflot for a while was sending their A330’s for service in Iran when OEM parts were hard to come by. It was a partnership with Mahan Air IIRC, there was a video about this on YouTube.
I asked him if he feels unsafe and he said no because they had more aviation fatalities before 2022 sanctions than after, and that there is now very heavy pressure on every aspect of commercial aviation from management which means every process is under a ton of risk mitigation layers.
He also praised the new Russian minister of transport.
vorko_76@reddit
Your friend is bullshitting you at least a little bit, call it either russian pride or positive communication.
When you do maintenance, you either do it or not. Apart from physical inspections, you cannot do something with more scrutiny. Or maybe he meant that he was more relaxed before during the checklist than now? But practically you cannot do more than the AMM.
What was reported is that the pilots were not authorized to write down all the messages from the ECAM in the logbook. And when you see the PFR that were shared, you understand why.
And no they did not have more fatalities before 2022 than now. The official numbers are (rosaviatsyia number) stable over the last 30 years. Its significantly higher than EASA though.
---
Afterwards yes, practically they can find some parts but engine LLP and avionic systems are particularly difficult to find. And I assume they do some heavy parts robbing. (that can be linked to the drop in ASK).
Iran is able to maintain old aircraft but new engines and airframes are very challenging, and is not viable in the long term.
godlords@reddit
You have no clue what you're talking about
fly_awayyy@reddit
Engine guy already commented on here I asked him how overhauls and shop visits work. Second writing down everything from the ECAM? I mean I’m authorized to at my operator nothing stopping me but we sure don’t write up every nuisance message from the ECAM either.
vorko_76@reddit
No idea what you mean about engine. LLP (also called SLI) have life limitations after which they can break... And when they brake, you lose the engine and sometimes the plane. You cant just repair them, you need new ones. They are very difficult to manufacture even as the OEM for recent engines. And for Russia thats even more difficult.
Regarding the ECAM, yes and no. But if you followed this story from 2024 or 2023, one pilot from Ural complained that their A320 PFR had more than 150 Faults or Warnings (instead of the usual 5-10) and that Ural Airlines had forbidden them to record that many in the logbook.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Well of course for LLP you’re not going to counterfeit those. Russia and China can’t even build competent jet engines after all these years shoot the OEMs struggle with their latest designs as you noted. A lot of those engines still need to go to OEM or OEM authorized shops to service them. As I was saying the engine guy in this thread commented on how that is working. They go through Chinese or other country MROs who will send the engine for a shop visit.
vorko_76@reddit
OK, I dont think it cannot work without the support from the OEM. Engine LLPs are tracked by the manufacturer
fly_awayyy@reddit
Well for sure even if your 3rd party shop has the authorization to do major engine work, those assemblies and parts still need to be ordered from the OEMs.
vorko_76@reddit
Yes, but I mean the shop needs to specify the engine on which the LLP are installed. And you cannot order a lot more parts than needed for official engines to support russian ones. Thats what I mean by tracked.
For old engines you can manage to some extent but I have lots of doubts. So I guess they try to use "copies".
Voodoo_One@reddit
I guess some of the issues and crashes will come later, when some maintenance or problematic parts catch up
GabeDNL@reddit
Number of plane crash deaths in Russia reaches decades low in 2023.
vorko_76@reddit
If you are smart, please check the numbers of accidents per year published by Rossaviatsyia and the number of flights (that decreased by 50% in 2023 compared to 2021). Then draw your own conclusion.
Then check 2024...
seanx40@reddit
Russian airlines and safely are not often used in the same sentence
Skypaddle@reddit
I take issue with that
With current events I am absolutely not on Russias side at all.
However it seems to me that their safety culture was poor in Soviet times (communism despises safety) and in the years afterwards (as they adjusted). Since then, the record seems to be more or less in line with everyone else. Now I don't think that will continue...but that's a different question.
Molecular_Pudding@reddit
They can get parts (legit or counterfeit) from 3rd parties, like China or India or from the black market. However due to this shady origin and track record of aircraft parts, these airplanes will be probably still be banned from EU or USA airspace as they are not considered airworthy anymore. Thus the leasing companies are de facto writing off these planes which are leased to Russian carriers because they cannot return them to their EU/US bases.
Long story short: Russian carriers not returning aircraft to lessors -> manufacturers are banned to sell spare parts to Russian carriers -> Russian carriers start using unchecked parts -> aircraft are losing their airworthiness certificates -> aircraft get banned from EU/US airspace -> lessors write off these planes and sues Russian companies -> Russia keeps these planes and fly them domestically or to the Far East until they are physically unable to fly
DarkAbyssalHarbinger@reddit
... Russia's a big country anyway, they probably have domestic routes where they need to use widebodies.
Skypaddle@reddit
At some point there will be a crash. Grey market parts are expensive and may (or may not) be of the right quality. Qualified engineers may (or may not) be overworked.
And when there is a crash and people die, it will be a tragedy.
But it is a situation brought on by the choices that leaders and the people more generally, have made. This is just how the world is.
Dd171049@reddit
They don't.
KhaelonVoss@reddit
Boeing 777-300ER? It's probably still serviced, but with parts from third party countries.
Aeroflot has only had 5 hull losses since 1991. They have had about 750 hull losses overall (1932-2025), so that Soviet period took a lot of losses. Interesting Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_accidents_and_incidents
turtlesarentbad@reddit
Can someone tell me what I’m looking at?
Dutchmuscle91@reddit
A stolen 777.
turtlesarentbad@reddit
How was it stolen?
LastTxPrez@reddit
My older son flew from Tyumen to Moscow on 7 Sept 2011, the same day that YAK Service flight 9633 crashed. We had not heard from him yet and I was in total panic as there was scant information given when the first report came out. Thankfully his mother didn't hear the initial report or she would have flipped her shit. When we finally heard from him, I told him and his mother about the other flight. He said that he had his doubts about his plane as pieces of paneling fell into the cabin off during a particularly turbulent stretch of his flight and he wasn't sure, after spending 3 months in a place where "sobriety was the exception to the rule", if the same thing wasn't occurring on the outside of the plane.
VomittingVampire@reddit
They don’t
Willi1908@reddit
I flew with Aeroflot a couple of years ago. My friend, who is a pilot for a big commercial airline, almost booked my funeral upfront. He said that he’d never board a plane from Aeroflot.
TBH I had a good experience, nothing wrong.
Dry-Marketing-6798@reddit
Newsflash: They don't.
planeguy707@reddit
Iran probably taught Russia how to reverse engineer some parts.
kl7mu@reddit
Vla Vla vlad Putin, Russia's botoxed death machine There was a mechanic here a second ago Vla Vla vlad Putin, the empire's gopnik king Taking innocent lives was his hobbyhorse
Vertigo_uk123@reddit
Company a buys from Boeing. Sells to company b sells to company c ….. sells to Russia.
Buffalo95842@reddit
They operate. That’s all that can be said.
smietnik9@reddit
u/bkco88 simple: they don't
Farmerwithoutfarm@reddit
Is this more anti Russian propaganda? I’ve had great experiences on Aeroflot
jalanajak@reddit
Unknown Aerocomponent Exporter.
SecondhandTrout@reddit
Did they ever?
FlaviusDomitianus@reddit
Maintenance is more expensive, but far from impossible. While Russian airlines cannot buy parts from Boeing or Airbus directly, there are plenty of grey market suppliers that will happily sell them part at a markup.
Impressive_Yam5149@reddit
And maybe they just operate, but not exactly safely.
airpab1@reddit
Couldn’t pay me large amounts of $$ to get on a Russian airliner. No chance
Aviation_enthusiast8@reddit
That’s the neat part…. They don’t
This is an airline that once had a pilot bet the other that he could land a plane with he windscreen shades down
usafmtl@reddit
What?????
masteroffdesaster@reddit
and another pilot let his kids fly a plane which then promptly crashed
Aviation_enthusiast8@reddit
And one flew drunk
masteroffdesaster@reddit
one that we know of
OrangeCrusher22@reddit
Yeah...just one drunken Aeroflot pilot...totally.
Aviation_enthusiast8@reddit
Aeroflot 6502
g500cat@reddit
Soviet Aeroflot is completely different from current Aeroflot
Quirky_Flounder_3260@reddit
Maybe if you make a mistake you get a free trip to Ukraine
SaltyMidnight5008@reddit
Who says they operate safely?
Maleficent_Spot_7215@reddit
Aeroflot still holds while US planes fall down sometimes
The_LSD_Soundsystem@reddit
Take ruble and leave
Ustakion@reddit
What type of plane in that picture then?
LUXI-PL@reddit
Well, it's a US plane which must have fallen down because it's on the ground
Lapkonium@reddit
Not MD-11 that’s for sure
AshemaTheFox@reddit
So you bring up a 50+ year old clearly aged plane that crashed to use as your arguement?
Lapkonium@reddit
Sometimes I wonder how they still operate safely
AshemaTheFox@reddit
They don't because most of all the old planes used in the U.S. have already been replaced, that's why the older planes that are actually still in service are reserved for cargo and not transporting passengers
Orlok_Tsubodai@reddit
If half your fleet can’t take off anymore the chances of falling are greatly reduced.
Maleficent_Spot_7215@reddit
Cope harder
Orlok_Tsubodai@reddit
Is the reason you have so much time to defend Aeroflot that you’re sitting on a grounded Aeroflot flight waiting for spares, comrade?
DestoryDerEchte@reddit
Oh boy... do I have something for you
fly_awayyy@reddit
The countries that let them land on their soil and use their airspace like the one pictured here in Thailand lol
SimpleRickC135@reddit
Fuck it.
PozhanPop@reddit
Cannibalization is the name of the game and also machining their own parts when they can from what I've heard.
Itchy_Ad_451@reddit
« Safely » from a Russian point of view 👌🏻
eyepoker4ever@reddit
There's a difference between operating and operating safely.
NoMeat5127@reddit
Do they operate “safely”? I’ve flown them twice and it was interesting.
gizcard@reddit
Why do you think they operate safely?
fly_awayyy@reddit
Because of the countries safety regulations they satisfy by letting them land and use their airspace?
FrenchGooner@reddit
Sorry but in what sense? Countries will still sell them parts + its in their interest that nothing happens to their largest airlines
bkco88@reddit (OP)
Perhaps, but there are clear examples of them cannibalizing their other aircraft as recently as October of this year because of the sanctions. Seems that this could have an impact on their safe operation, even if they have access to third party options.
fly_awayyy@reddit
I mean canniblaizing is more routine than you know sanctions or not. Air India was known to do it. With the engine issues going on especially with the GTF pulling engines off and rotating airframes is common. Lots of new 320 family series plane in the desert in the southwest that will show you
Callero_S@reddit
Who says they do?
fly_awayyy@reddit
Thailand since the plane landed there and it satisfies their authorities. Operating for a US carrier into foreign countries they audit our logbooks and pilot credentials too. Pretty normal for aviation authorities so they’re satisfying it
Big-man-kage@reddit
You assume they’re operating safely right now
fly_awayyy@reddit
I mean Thailand and the countries they overflew and the ones they operate to do…otherwise they wouldn’t let them use their airspace…
disergi0@reddit
what is your concern?
mz_groups@reddit
Cannibalization, shell companies purchasing parts, parts with suspicious provenance.
747WakeTurbulance@reddit
They don't.
Civil-Lead-9308@reddit
Probably reverse engineered parts from iran
vischy_bot@reddit
Compared to....Boeing?
dmo_tho@reddit
They don’t
GilletteEd@reddit
They don’t! Flying with scrap parts!
Ok-Foundation1346@reddit
The lack of any serious accidents is not necessarily an indication of operating safely. It could just be a sign of being lucky so far. If so then I hope it continues for the sake of the people on board.
AhhYahBassa@reddit
That's the thing...
They don't
BreadstickBear@reddit
Aeroflot has never been operating safely even when they had free access to spares.
pochemooshka@reddit
Locals used to call some of their Tupolev TU fleet "Тушки" (Tushki) which literally means corpses because thats what you'd be if you flew in them
SilentMode-On@reddit
News to me as a Russian speaker…
East_Type_1136@reddit
you might have lived in a different region. I have heard them called "Тушки" all the time. I never made that parallel, but now I agree with it. Those planes were good in the 70s, not so much in the 90s, not talking about the 2000s. Yes, there are Western planes that are from the past and not that reliable any more or hard to fly/unforgiving. This does not make a Tu better.
Hot-Minute8782@reddit
We also call such a person “dumb as an american”. There is nothing in common between «Тушки» and corpses.
pochemooshka@reddit
Ммммммм, даже на английском Google вам даст что такое тушка. Я там родилась. Я там выросла. Я летела в ТУ самолётах 🤷♀️ (Translation: even an English Google will confirm the corpse-тушка link (animal corpses, but still). I was born and grew up there, and flew in TU aircraft but go off ig)
tsunx4@reddit
TU-154 are notorious for stalling and almost impossible antistall procedure because of the engine configuration. Also stall alarm that warns about the stall...when stall has already happened.
IndyCarFAN27@reddit
Actually, I believe it generated insane amounts of lift. Watch any video of one landing and crews would sometimes (as per SOP apparently) deploy thrust reverses while still in the air to try and get the thing to touch down.
Nervous-Survey-8998@reddit
You are so silly. "Tushki" isn't corpses
RubinoPaul@reddit
No, it's not true lol
BreadstickBear@reddit
Tu-104, a bomber hastily redesigned into an airliner, just to be able to say they beat the west to it (and still failed).
Then kept the type in service for way too long because "it's there and it's flying".
Yeah, it's mostly flying, but it had such a bad record that it has a literal folk song about it going "Tu-104, fastest plane in the world, it gets you to heaven in under 5 minutes"
anton__logunov@reddit
Could also go to a third country for repairs.
Common-Violinist-305@reddit
they don’t really
pinkfatcap@reddit
Sometimes I wonder if you people live in a bubble.
exu1981@reddit
They do
unclefire@reddit
They're cannibalizing planes for parts in some cases. In other cases they're getting part from other countries where they can.
InsteadOfWorkin@reddit
They don’t lol. That airline has never had a great reputation
blhooray@reddit
Who says they do…
Beneficial_Signal_67@reddit
Well they dont. So dont fly them
IcyCucumber6223@reddit
They dont
rdm55@reddit
They were never safe.
RonBurgundy2000@reddit
3rd party parts resellers and cannibalizing other aircraft that they effectively stole.
IsaacJacobSquires@reddit
Why? Is it a Boeing?
FMC_Speed@reddit
It’s not complicated they just source spares through an intermediary
bkco88@reddit (OP)
I’m not sure I’d classify safely operating as ‘simple’
FMC_Speed@reddit
It is continuing their normal operations like before only now each airframe hour costs more, so it’s not a new thing and the difference is financial not operational
E2TheCustodian@reddit
Weren’t there Aeroflot pilots saying they had new procedures to e.g. avoid brake use?
vctrmldrw@reddit
They don't. They're many times more likely to have an accident.
But here's the thing. Even if you decide that 10 times as dangerous is ok... you're still safer than driving to the airport. Especially in Russia.
fly_awayyy@reddit
If they’re that likely to have an accident overflight rights would be pulled and landing rights in various countries. The fact that those still hold says a lot.
No-Computer7653@reddit
They don't. Russia are allowing them to use uncertified parts (an attempt of a clone of certified parts), those aircraft will never be able to fly in most countries airspace again.
fly_awayyy@reddit
Highly doubt that. They probably sourcing certified parts from other countries
TrustedNotBelieved@reddit
Don't watch videos of what those pilot have. They are not safe.
jon6011@reddit
They purchase parts through Dubai
hat1337@reddit
There's a way. There's always a way. In Poland we have banned importing wood from Belarus and Russia. However I just bought a cabinet and when I opened it it said "made in Belarus". It was not wood! It was a cabinet made of wood!
There's proof that Russia is getting American chips though china, the restrictions are only for the show.
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BavarianBanshee@reddit
They don't?
seraphim_9@reddit
They’ve been cannibalizing a lot of planes and recently they hijacked some Chinese planes and kept them for parts too.
baronmunchausen2000@reddit
Laughs in Iranian
Toon1982@reddit
They don't, they just operate 😂
RobV1306@reddit
They dont
Impossible_Tailor_38@reddit
Чуваки, приходишь на борт и там все работает, хотите вы того или нет, да, чувствуется, что самолеты потихоньку устают, но еще лет на 5-10 хватит. Уставшие детали меняются на новые, или бушные, откуда они берутся, спросите у своих граждан или их друзей. Деньги не пахнут / бизнес есть бизнес - ваши же афоризмы. А самое главное то, что вы сделали очень безопасные самолеты, которые очень сложно довести до состояния, непригодного к полету. Посмотрите на все катастрофы b777 или a320 и увидите, что отказа техники там нигде не фигурирует, в основном долбаёбы за штурвалом/сайдстиком. А персонал в авиакомпаниях остался практически такой же как и в 2021 году.
Constant_Lynx_6834@reddit
r/mysteriousdownvotes
newtoallofthis2@reddit
They never did.
GhostRiders@reddit
Like many have said, they don't.
njordic1@reddit
They don’t.
donkichote@reddit
they don't :)
ThisIsLukkas@reddit
They don't
Imaginary-Librarian7@reddit
hypocrisy of the 'western world'
BlackVQ35HR@reddit
mrbluetrain@reddit
I also wonder that! Just look at North Korea and their ass old russian planes are still flying. So I guess with proper maintenance you come a long way?
As for Russia's Airbus/Boeing planes, if they can source 3rd party original parts and have access to all service bulletins, then maybe they will fly as good or even better than anyone else because they know they need to take better care of their planes? That is a possibility I guess.
But I would also wonder if they are not tempted to produce or source their own parts within Russia to keep cost down. If you do that for some time and everything works, then you maybe get even "ballsier" with your ability and making more and more sophisticated parts?
And then of course with the culture of corruption in Russia (just look at the war with Ukraine!) I would imagine that they will introduce flaws at some point. Of course planes will not explode at once maybe they will work throughout their service life, or maybe we will begin to have accidents in some years.
This is just speculation from my part but I would assume making own parts is just too tempting not to try so I would say you roll the dice by going on a russian state owned Airbus or boeing.
cpav8r@reddit
Well, they operate.
mikeeginger@reddit
They don't thats the secret
UpdateInProgress@reddit
That’s their secret… they probably don’t.
Alex_Ariranha@reddit
Nobody wants aircrafts to fall apart with passengers onboard. Western companies still want to make their money selling the aircraft parts, now through intermediary companies. Everyone is happy. War is war, business is business.
viburnumjelly@reddit
This is exactly what Western countries have been trying to achieve in recent years - to block proper maintenance for Russian civilian aircraft, effectively ensuring that the fleet degrades faster and becomes unsafe. And when Russian women and children eventually die in a preventable crash, it will somehow be seen as reinforcing their sense of moral righteousness.
Rootsman64@reddit
Operate yes. Safely no. Give credit to both Boeing and Airbus for their products. But sooner or later the lack of OEM support will catch up with them. Black market parts and 3d printing can only go so far.
Ingeneure_@reddit
Aeroflot still flies around the world
Locations are more limited now, but still — it‘s not a problem to get spare parts now. Mostly. You know Boeing and Airbus are not rare planes.
DoBisaOrky@reddit
They don’t
Immediate-Spite-5905@reddit
That's the neat part, they don't!
Initial_Savings3034@reddit
"For a slight additional charge, anything is possible." Kjell Westerlund
Bergwookie@reddit
Operate safely, Aeroflot.... Lol
SanDiedo@reddit
That's the nyet part: they don't!
They have stolen enough planes to scavenge for a while though. Not sure about manuals, training, know-how and best practices...
hostomel_@reddit
keep dreaming
alexifua@reddit
That's the neat part, they don't
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Prestigious_Soil_454@reddit
They don't
AlppiKarhu@reddit
Well, they operate, just not safely.
They cannibalize some airframes to keep others airworthy, use counterfeit parts or original bought through shady schemes.
And since Russians has plenty of experience in operating in “gray area” (the likes of Utair have been like that forever) they can drag it off for a long time.
Delicious_Flow6800@reddit
China lol
bergler82@reddit
they operate. I wouldn’t call it safely. But then again there is a huge black backet for part supplied via china.
DeviantDork@reddit
That’s the neat part, they don’t.
__iku__@reddit
I would not call it safe operating but holding on
DestoryDerEchte@reddit
(They dont)
Prudent_Statement_30@reddit
Ah Aeroflot <3
Kitchen_Drawing_751@reddit
I’ve been on an Aeroflot plane a few days back. I slept all the way through the flight without a care in the world and landed safely with absolutely nothing going wrong, and needless to say, I am well and alive. That is well within acceptable by my admittedly average standards.
Kushweiner@reddit
Lots of robbed parts from other planes and parts from dodgy vendors im sure. Russians arent known for their safety record either so who knows what the logbooks and tech records look like.
Global-Emu-1423@reddit
Did they ever?
No-Suit1490@reddit
2/3 boeing 1/3 mig
Sel2g5@reddit
Safely? A friend of mine was on Aeroflot once and said he'd never been so scared in his life.
Ethan_escence@reddit
That's the neat part, they don't.
Pol_Potamus@reddit
Never have
lewisfairchild@reddit
they don’t
smokie12@reddit
Most likely the answer is between "barely" and "not at all".