Porn Giant Calls For Device-Based Digital ID
Posted by Danrobi1@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 145 comments
Open ecosystems would feel the pressure. Independent browsers, community distributions of Linux, and other user-driven projects could be pushed toward government-linked identity requirements simply to maintain compatibility.
fellipec@reddit
Yeah, start with p0nr and then suddenly to order a pizza online you have to use a "verified" device that was not "tampered" meaning it comes with the "original" operating system.
Not only we will not be able to install another OS but when the OEM decide you'll not have more support to the original OS, you'll have no other choice but buy another device.
JUST LIKE PHONES.
Revexious@reddit
How else are they going to track you, then blackmail you when you do something they didn't like?
mosskin-woast@reddit
Blackmail is a pretty wild leap, they can make way more money selling your data
fellipec@reddit
Well, they will not blackmail us.
But the hackers that get the data through the leaks sure will... Oh, wait, they already do this!
Revexious@reddit
I just assumed that thats where they'll go to when selling our data is no longer making them enough money
mosskin-woast@reddit
Why not assume they'll just impersonate us, take out life insurance policies in our names listing themselves as beneficiaries, and kill us?
Blackmail is a great way to lose a customer, and recurring revenue is very important to technology companies. Try not to get too worried about eventualities you made up ;)
Revexious@reddit
Taking out life insurance and killing us is far too radical - it threatens to leave money on the table unspent.
mosskin-woast@reddit
So does blackmailing?? You're kidding right?
Revexious@reddit
I mean, yes; we're both kidding, no?
I'd hope that we aren't actually suggesting that companies will blackmail and/or murder their customer base.
Disastrous_Task7933@reddit
Porn is poison to society
juacq97@reddit
Time to use the imagination I guess
HypnoticPolygons@reddit
If this happens it would be my first time going to a porn store.
xyphon0010@reddit
DividedContinuity@reddit
They're not wrong that the current situation is trash, but for privacy, low friction device based id is orders of magnitude worse for the consumer.
This would be an advertisers and trackers wet dream, they already go to extraordinary lengths with cookies and fingerprinting to try and profile internet users.
ccAbstraction@reddit
I don't see how a device based fingerprint is worse than handing over a selfie and your government ID to every porn site? Like they already are fingerprinting you, and us linux users looks very unique, how does a flag that says "this device can look at porn" too gonna tip the scale?
webguynd@reddit
They'll extend that flag to be required to access other services, and eventually to get online at all. And you can bet you won't be able to use Linux for it. It'll require device attestation, using crap like Play Protect and the Windows, macOS, and iOS equivalents to attest that the device is "certified" and "has not been tampered with"
ccAbstraction@reddit
I hope not, I can see big tech pushing for this kind of implementation. But the main idea is that most reasonable people give or should give their kids their own device or local profile on a device, or are actively watching what they're doing. The system only needs to hold up to tamper prevention from with the kid as the adversary and the parent being trustworthy and not the person who actually owns the computer.
Prometheus1998_@reddit
What rock have you been living under? It WILL NOT stop where you want it to stop.
DFS_0019287@reddit
Or, we could all stop being so uptight about the whole thing and just not require age verification. Kids have been accessing porn since time immemorial and they'll keep accessing it no matter what. Far better to start clamping down on degrading or violent porn and not getting hot and bothered about healthy depictions of sexuality.
wpm@reddit
We could also just hold....parents accountable and responsible for the content their children view? Last I checked Android and iOS (both of which are entirely fucking optional for a child to use) have parental controls, parents can implement network based controls at home, petition their schools to do the same for whatever chromeslop crap they're forced to buy, and I dunno, fucking ground their kids if they get caught looking at porn?
DFS_0019287@reddit
If I found a teenager looking at porn, and said porn was not violent or degrading, I wouldn't care.
If it was violent or degrading porn, then yes... I'd sit the kid down for a lecture.
Negative_Round_8813@reddit
It doesn't need to be violent or degrading to give a teenager a fucked up idea of how sexual relationships should work.
DFS_0019287@reddit
They already get fucked up ideas about that from society in general, so parents are going to have to give guidance here anyway.
ccAbstraction@reddit
Yeah, THIS, I think letting teens know what is and isn't fiction and separating fact from opinions is probably more important. I don't think that's happening if everyone is so tight lipped about what sexuality is. But, one of the few things people made fairly clear is that porn is fiction and role play. The whole issue with violent and degrading porn is the same as the issue with violent movies and TV shows, they require the viewer to understand that it's not real and they can't actually do what's happening in the film or let that happen to them!
Negative_Round_8813@reddit
Indeed they have but the sheer amount and type of porn has changed considerably. As a child of the 70s and 80s it was magazines and VHS videos. They were quite hard to get hold of as a kid, basically what your dad thought he'd hidden away and what your mates managed to get hold of in their house, and were very tame compared to what you will find on sites like Pornhub etc.
DividedContinuity@reddit
Well first, no one is forcing you to hand over actual ID, if you don't want to, then you're in control.
How accessble will this age flag be? Knowing the age category of a user is very useful information to an advertiser.
plus i doubt it can be as simple as a flag, to be robust enough not to be spoofed there has to be something like certificate verification going on. How much do we trust that wont leak behaviour data in some way.
ccAbstraction@reddit
I think, especially on Linux, it would relatively easy choose to not pass it in.
Your rough age is very likely something most databrokers have already happily sold to advertisers. Your full government ID likely hasn't yet.
None of these points really addresses how much worse the alternative is for privacy and free speech. Some US states have already lost access to regular social media sites like Bluesky and you see the total shit show in the UK.
sidusnare@reddit
It depends on what that means. If it's just you log in to your account and the browser asks the OS "Is this user over 18?", and that's the end of it, fine. If they're collecting device unique identification, that could be a problem, but I don't see a reason for them to, and these companies constantly want as little to do with this, so they probably won't.
kengador@reddit
"googles who the owners are of these sites"
ah...Always
mmmboppe@reddit
porn giants are becoming obsolete just like tv amd Hollywood, this is a desperate attempt for them to stay relevant
Gyrochronatom@reddit
So my son can watch porn on my computer? I guess it makes sense.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Everyone is watching porn on your computer.
DazzlingAd4254@reddit
Not everyone can find \~/Documents/taxes/.pending/.misc/redheads.
qwesx@reddit
Imagine hiding that stuff and not just having a directory "Porn" directly in ~/Videos.
CakeIzGood@reddit
The trick is to do that but put some random nonsense in it so people think you don't save your porn and are just being funny, and don't look for the hidden folder
SpaceCadet2000@reddit
Using
ncduin your~/Videosdirectory can be a bit confronting though lolImOldGregg_77@reddit
~/not_porn
that_one_wierd_guy@reddit
imagine not having two folders, one labelled socially acceptable porn, and one labelled unforgiveable porn do not open
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
We all know which folder everyone will choose to open 🤣
Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
I have a "Gousgounis" subfolder /s
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
mv ~/Videos/Porn ~/Videos/.fromchadscomputer
There, now it's hidden AND you have an explanation!
mfotang@reddit
I get the feeling that you are speaking from experience! Chad better not be an acquaitance.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
It's from the meme.
DazzlingAd4254@reddit
If you want the whole world to know your business, you can always do
ln -s ~/Documents/taxes/.pending/.misc/redheads ~/Videos/Porn!LegioTertiaDcmaGmna@reddit
Can they find
./amputated_migdetsthough?Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Everyone using u/Gyroctronatom can find it!
Besides, not everyone likes redheads
derixithy@reddit
Well depends on where the red hairs are
No-Advertising-9568@reddit
That's sort of self-evident from the name "redHEADS" isn't it?
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Greetings fellow Fedora user!!
Regardless of where the red hairs are, not everyone is into redheads.
Anonymo@reddit
Who is talking about hair? We are talking about red heads.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Depends on what heads we're talking about
Anonymo@reddit
What are you, blind? It's a cock! It's not a rocket, you sick fuck! It's a cock! Look. It's a cock and balls! A dick! Chorizo and the huevos! It's a big stiffy! It's a penis! Penis maximus! A willie! A weenie! Mr. Jiggle Daddy! The one-eyed wonder weasel! Don't you see that? It's Jimmy and the twins. Rumple Foreskin. He made this. It's made from dil-dough.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Ok so that's what you like to watch? A folder full of dick videos?
Anonymo@reddit
It's a quote from the movie Death to Smoochy -- Robin Williams
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Ok
mfotang@reddit
Seeing that some redheads are brunettes underneath, an experienced Fedora user would have something like \~/Documents/taxes/.pending/.misc/redheads/brunettes.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Not all experienced Fedora users are into redheads or bottle redheads.
streetshock1312@reddit
oh that's how you're supposed to do it... I had a feeling putting my taxes in ~/Videos/Porn/redheads/.taxes/. didn't really make sense
TRKlausss@reddit
That’s the principle of a VPN :D
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Greetings fellow Debian user!
pnutjam@reddit
I used to joke that around 11 or 12 is the age that parents of boys would inevitably say something like, "I found all this porn on my computer and I don't know where it came from..." (surely not my sweet little boy).
Frandapie@reddit
Do i need to schedule my time to watch porn on that person's computer, or is it first come (heh heh) first serve?
TheDreadPirateJeff@reddit
It’s ok. I just remote in to their computer and watch porn in the background while other things are running. But I must admit, I didn’t think you were into some the things I noticed you were watching.
Frandapie@reddit
I mean what's wrong with clown porn?
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Yes
susosusosuso@reddit
Are you challenging us?
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Yes
MetaTrombonist@reddit
You could share your porn watching habits with your son. Sort of a bonding thing.
bigbadchief@reddit
Probably any protocol should allow for different profiles on the same device.
GloriousExtra@reddit
Porn giant seeks to shoot itself in the foot.
Negative_Round_8813@reddit
You don't need to. Your browser fingerprint does a good enough job of exposing you.
GloriousExtra@reddit
Joke's on you, I'm sending this from a Speak and Spell.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
But you will install the FOSS program that answers the flag request of "Over 18" and that is all they need. The one time security does not need to be secure. Just accepted to CYA.
wpm@reddit
you're jerking yourself if you don't think it'll require some Microsoft/Apple/Google device attestation bullshit
HoustonBOFH@reddit
Remember when Secure Boot was going to be the end of Linux?
dvtyrsnp@reddit
lol what? you'd be insane to think this is somehow worse for business than them being forced to collect PII over the internet
indvs3@reddit
Ironically, either way, they're fucked...
Mother-Pride-Fest@reddit
Isn't that the point?
NYPuppy@reddit
I'm gonna say the obvious and probably get downvoted for it. Minors watch smut. They always have and always will. Parents who think otherwise are naive. People on reddit (other subs, not here) going ballistic over little Johnny having access to the Hub are sensitive authoritarians.
This isn't new. Minors used to find their parents' stash of dirty magazines or find their way to channels with porn. Things like this don't stop anything. Naive people will sign up with their full name, selfies and credit cards and then that data will leak in a few months. We know it will happen.
Social media like Instagram, discord, tiktok are way way way worse than some kid watching Big Bazongas 6 on the Hub. Instagram and the other platforms do nothing to protect kids from predators or bullies or people telling them to "unalive" themselves. On discord, I have been in LARGE servers that were taken over by spammers sending slurs and gore. I'm an adult and that still left me with scars.
Negative_Round_8813@reddit
That's not the issue. What is the issue is how it's changed. Not only is there shitloads more of it it's also far more hardcore than what you'd find in your dad's Playboy and Razzle mags you'd managed to find hidden in your parent's bedroom.
ccAbstraction@reddit
IDK if regular social sites are inherently worse, I've started using Reddit, Instagram, Discord, and even Kik since like middle school & beginning of highschool, and I definitely had a lot of positive experiences online. Unlike a lot of people I hear about in the horror stories, I specifically didn't try to make real deep connections with people online at that age. When I did talk to people it was mainly about mutual hobbies like art and programming, very much compartmentalized. I was also very paranoid about opsec, and I think that helped a lot. All the weird bad shit happened me face-to-face IRL and where people can follow you if you walk away and you can't just block someone. Anyway, what I'm saying is that a lot of the potential harm can be mitigated by actually training kids to stay anonymous online again, and understanding the possibility that EVERY thing someone has told you about themselves could be false ("on the internet no one knows you're a dog").
aghost_7@reddit
This will just push people to use more shady sites.
ImClearlyDeadInside@reddit
Time to sail the seven seas
watermelonspanker@reddit
Have y'all not been doing that this entire time?
There's like... tons of .isos out here.
ImClearlyDeadInside@reddit
ISOs? Are you storing your torrented porn on optical discs?
watermelonspanker@reddit
Porn?
No, I have a massive collection of Linux ISOs though
Dr0zD@reddit
You can't go more dirty. Gentoo bdsm/, Arch redheads/, Ubuntu anal/, Fedora steprelatives/, RedHat lgbt/, ...
LvS@reddit
No, people will just register with their full name to watch porn. People don't give a shit.
The only people going to shady sites will be children who can't access the legitimate sites.
ccAbstraction@reddit
More than id based verification?
Big_Trash7976@reddit
Who owns the porn companies?
Crimson_Kang@reddit
A venture capital firm called, get this, Ethical Capital Partners. Owned by, you guessed it, venture capitalist and, again so good, a criminal lawyer.
PS: Yes, Aylo, but the above is the owner of Aylo. Honestly we can just start calling all of them "Umbrella Corp," since that's where we're headed anyways.
turboprop2950@reddit
Never let them take your kernel 👀
sidusnare@reddit
Aloy
Shished@reddit
Some assholes.
fellipec@reddit
Isn't the other way around?
pervertsage@reddit
It's just arsesoles all the way down.
National_Way_3344@reddit
In case you're not aware, your computer doesn't have age or an ID.
AyumiToshiyuki@reddit
That link is red, that tells me anything I need to know
PerkyTomatoes@reddit
This whole age saga would be resolved if the parental controls were part of device setup like how in EU has for browser, we dont need anything else. Seems Covid hit harder than expected on intellect level.
mikeymop@reddit
The use govt just needs to make an OIDC provider that includes the age in the user info claim.
Sites then get the info from the govt at login and everyone only has one source of possible data leak.
If the govt is too incompetent to run an identity provider, services shouldn't be expected to do it for them.
Foxler2010@reddit
Ok so I actually am for this versus giving my ID to everyone under the sun. The only issue is that now all these websites need to find a eddi to trust my device. Everyone's worried about them using stuff like TPM and DRM and then blocking access to non-Windows 11 users, but I see a solution here that might actually work well.
I am absolutely not an expert on cryptographic algorithms, but I guess what I'm trying to describe is like reverse TLS. Instead of each website having a unique certificate that is in the chain of trust which allows every user of a modern browser to trust it, each user has a certificate that's in the chain of trust (anchored by the government), which allows any website to trust them.
Obviously the big issue here is we need to trust users not to share their private key. I think this can be accomplished by securing the key with a password like how GPG does it, maybe using a biometric instead. The biometric is only used to unlock the key it never leaves the device, think smart card Bitcoin wallet.
Please feel free to point out any problems with this solution. I think if we can come up with something they works like this, then voters will absolutely choose it over whatever other crap is being suggested right now.
GreenSouth3@reddit
could be as simple as MAC address
mr-roboticus@reddit
We all know where this is leading. Soon I’m sure I’ll have trouble “buying” and “selling”. I’ll check out of society when that time comes.
DFS_0019287@reddit
It seems like nobody ever realizes that you can't trust the client. What a stupid idea.
surreal3561@reddit
Is the title is a bit misleading?
The way I interpret it: Instead of each website having to require an ID and maybe other biometrics in order to verify the user - as the current laws in some areas are requiring them, they are saying this should be solved on a device level. They are not saying let’s enforce this everywhere, even where regulations don’t require an identity check.
Which sounds… reasonable? Don’t get me wrong, both are absolutely horrible for privacy - but between the two I think I’d prefer if my device could just say that I’m of age, as opposed to me submitting my full documents to a bunch of websites.
I would avoid such websites completely to begin with, but with the way it’s going we’ll be required to verify identity for most things
fellipec@reddit
Problem is that to them trust your device, it can't simply say you are of age. It will have to prove it was not tampered with. This flying well with p0nr will be used everywhere and then you can kiss goodbye using internet with any alternative OS, because it will mean you tampered your device. Just like multiplayer anti-cheat or phones.
IllllIIlIllIllllIIIl@reddit
It really depends on how it's implemented. With zero knowledge proofs similar to what some privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies like Monero use, you could prove you are of age without revealing to the website who you are. But I expect if this gets legislated they'll require it be done in the worst possible way.
fellipec@reddit
As usual.
Danrobi1@reddit (OP)
That's the problem. That's why it might fly.
xAdakis@reddit
Personally, I think an actual unified and transparent Digital ID system that works everywhere and offers things like age verification is sorely needed.
I mean, it really shouldn't take much extra work and it COULD be done securely....
You could, for example, provide Google with your verifiable personal identification, who can store it securely in their database.
When you go to a website that is 18+, it simply gives you a button to Login/Verify with Google.
You login to Google, who checks their database, and then returns a UserID- that is unique to the website you're trying to login/verify with -with the `Over 18` flag and a Session ID.
That is a pretty simple way for the website to verify your age with none of your personally identifiable information exposed.
Combine that with MFA and sessions that automatically log you out after some time has elapsed, and all the problems are solved.
This doesn't need to be device-level or anything. . . just modify the existing OpenID / OAuth systems to provide anonymous identify with flags.
Don't trust Google?. . .well, plenty of space for other companies, organizations, or even governments to implement such a system.
This can go FAR BEYOND just porn too. . .anything where you need to verify that you are who you say you are, such as banks, work, school, etc.
Unethical3514@reddit
“store it securely” and “in their database” should not appear together in the same post, much less the same sentence. Companies and governments alike have proven time and time again that they aren’t competent at preventing data breaches. It’s not a matter of “if” they’ll be breached, it’s “when”.
xAdakis@reddit
It's already done and certifiably so with Payment Card and Personally Identifiable Information.
It's not 100% perfect, but this is where we proceed with innovation and hardening instead of flat rejecting an idea.
DuckSword15@reddit
Sure bro. You just need to explain how these companies can keep their publicly accessible server secure.
xAdakis@reddit
We do it already with Payment Card Information and Personal Identifiable Information databases.
It's a problem that has already been solved and can easily be hardened further.
RAIDguy@reddit
No
ComradeOb@reddit
They are basically openly encouraging piracy at this point.
jameson71@reddit
Are they talking about the TPM Windows 11 requires that we were totally promised was not for anything like this?
derangedtranssexual@reddit
This is a better idea than every random website collecting your drivers license
Danrobi1@reddit (OP)
That's the problem. That's why it might fly.
PassageInevitable188@reddit
It looks like peer to peer is the way to go
benetton-option-13@reddit
No one wants to hear from a porno maker. Shut your mouth and go back to making porno piggy
Dialectic-Compiler@reddit
Hey guys, remember when capitalism was claimed to be the alternative to socialism that kept us free from invasive surveillance? Good times.
pasdedeux11@reddit
soon you'll need Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 to access these sites lol
Chuchtchia@reddit
Digital ID is as inevitable as cyberpunk.
Until government controls citizens and not citizens controls the government it would become a common thing on everything and everywhere.
grathontolarsdatarod@reddit
I'll your comment a further step down the logic chain and remind everyone that government for supposed to be made up OF the people.
We should be working on that. Cause our governments have gone off in their own direction - no government won an election on internet IDs.
I've never seen it in a campaign. None of this was asked for.
And no one is coming forward to say that they are asking for it.
Chuchtchia@reddit
I would say even more. Society supposed to start that activity looong ago, before any digitalisation. Because in surveillance state it's very hard to overturn the sides.
Look at all the countries with face recognition and the amount of protests and meetings government allows for people. Less and less.
And you can't organise if the very entry point to the internet would be ID walled. Yes, my dear snowflakes, that bad. Now it's only China, North Korea, Iran and Turkmenistan, but soon Russia (once free build internet system).
And that's why Web3.0 exists. Yet people prefer to downvote my comment instead of building horizontal networks.
If we won't act fast and radical, in just a few years that comfort zone of ignorance and passivity would end up as plush collars.
grathontolarsdatarod@reddit
You'd think that these law makers have children. That they would want them to grow up in a world like they did.
With opportunity. Wellbeing. Creativity. Moral imperatives. Hell, even religion, if that's what floats your boat.
These laws are like none ever passed in the history of humanity.
You'd think they have to see that.
Chuchtchia@reddit
Cyberpunk distopia predicted more than half a century ago. And it's based on human flaws getting artificial boost, nothing more. Just more tools, nothing never ever seen since stick or fire. It's human nature, not semiconductors that creates new reality.
As for lawmaker's children. Those nepobabies most probably will grow into a lawmakers. People in power love the idea of it's inheritance, the don't like outsiders from creative, moral and well-being lower world.
Just look at the EU votes on digital ID, look how many voted in favour. Have you heard of protests on this case in each single of those countries?
The law proposal was barely denied. Barely. Yet, no one draws conclusions, everyone just relaxed and continues to do nothing still knowing that wasn't the last attempt.
removedI@reddit
Great. Mord people visiting questionable sites that dont care about laws.
Time-Object5661@reddit
Stop overreacting
painefultruth76@reddit
Under 18 cannot fulfill a contract anywhere in the western hemisphere.
Every 8 year old with a cellphone, iPad or PC was granted access to the device and the internet connection by an adult... so your "solution" is already fulfilled NOW...
They want a unique digital id, because YOU are both a product and a commodity to corporate narcissists.
shroddy@reddit
Does that mean the os can somehow verify my age, or does that mean I go to the settings and set the box "I am over 18" there?
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Isn't this all going sideways with OF anyway? Plus don't you need to pay to watch anything good on OF? Anyway I don't know what the future of online porn is, but i wouldn't advise investing in it.
Wulfheim@reddit
It’s not about porn…it’s about total control.
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
It's not going to work.
SalaciousSubaru@reddit
They will force it to work there will only be those who obey and those who do not
Global-Eye-7326@reddit
Point taken.
Wulfheim@reddit
Seems like a certain rabbi needs more black mail material
boukensha15@reddit
Were those material promised to them 3000 years ago?
torchmaipp@reddit
I don't watch porn and they still want my ID? I'm not even visiting their website. How do they stop fake AI generated drivers licenses? Because that's what their gonna get if they force this on everyone who's just critical of the existence of dark matter and the null energy condition
Gyrochronatom@reddit
Starting with a lie doesn't bring anything constructive to the debate.
scuttledclaw@reddit
he doesn't watch porn, he watches porn.
hazyPixels@reddit
Why don't they just fingerprint the browser like every other site does?
xyphon0010@reddit
They do that, but they are saying that the current system is broken and having device side ID fixes it.
Shikadi297@reddit
Good luck with that future bankrupt porn giant