Moving from South America to Europe and back again completely broke my brain about what "luxury" and "poverty" actually mean.
Posted by CoffeeMan392@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 597 comments
I'm from South America and I lived in France for a decade. The experience re-wired my entire concept of wealth.
I grew up in a place where power cuts were normal. You'd keep a coin on some ice in the freezer just to know if your food was safe to eat.
In France, I saw people obsessing over smart fridges, and I just thought, "The real luxury is not having to know the coin trick at all."
I was baffled by their "luxuries": precise ovens (we used high/medium/low), air fryers (we used a pan), and their disgust for "ugly" vegetables.
But the thing that I can't get over is the food. I missed the cheap, amazing avocados, fresh fish, and fresh milk from my home. In France, that's all "luxury." It hit me: back home, we ate that way because we were poor. That was the cheap, local stuff. The expensive, "you've made it" food was processed, canned, and from a big supermarket. It's a complete paradox. My "poverty" was their "luxury," and their "convenience" (canned food) was our "status symbol."
But here's the final twist.
After 10 years in France, I moved back to South America (to a different country, but still). The moment I got back, I immediately started to miss all those "invisible" European luxuries. I missed the 100% stable power. I missed the endless hot water. I missed the safety and the trains that ran on time (well... Mostly)
You realize there is no "perfect" place, just a set of massive, unavoidable trade-offs. I have to deal with the frustrations I escaped from 10 years ago. But the truth is, I'm back for a reason. The things I get here are just... necessary. The food, the energy, the vibe, the warmth of the people. You can't import those things.
And I guess, after all this, that's the one luxury I've learned I can't live without.
Prahasaurus@reddit
I live in the Mediterranean. 80 years ago, everyone here was much healthier than today. Why? They were extremely poor. It's quite ironic.
They were poor so they couldn't eat much meat. Their diet was primarily locally grown fruits, vegetables, and legumes (beans, lentils). A lot of the produce was grown in their own gardens, so completely organic. They had no cars so they walked everywhere. They were shepherds, spending most of the day trekking the mountains, or doing manual labor of some type. Wives were in their gardens, constantly active, always moving.
Fast forward to today. Diets are now filled with meat, fewer legumes ("peasant food"), fewer veggies. Processed food everywhere. Locals no longer work in the fields, but sit in front of computers. Everyone owns a car and they drive everywhere, even short distances. If a shop or restaurant does not have convenient parking (so they don't have to walk more than 2 minutes), they go elsewhere.
The kids are overweight. The adults are unhealthy. The Mediterranean diet is one of the healthiest in the world, and yet few here eat it. Too much work, too much time, too much trouble. Plus they love meat.
IzzyBologna@reddit
I would like to point out the mistake you made on talking about food. You mentioned people were hardly any meat, yet the Mediterranean diet does feature lean meats in the diet. Other than that, I agree that people didn’t have the “luxury”, or really convenience of buying readymade food, that’s typically processed and refined.
SaltBrain1366@reddit
Stop spewing the same trite bullshit about meat being "unhealthy" and educate yourself, vegnazi. People are less healthy because of refined carbs and processed junk food.
Prahasaurus@reddit
Why are there so many assholes on Reddit? What is it about virtual communication that encourages this type of reply? You seem like a very unhappy person, sorry for your life.
thatsplatgal@reddit
💯💯💯
Living in Europe has made me miss some things that the US does well: convience, efficiency, laundry (oh how I miss my dryer), a long hot shower, a sink you can actually set stuff on, and you can solve any problem if you throw money at the issue.
I’ve been in Italy for a short time but I’ve been thinking how it feels like a developing country, except at a much higher price point and without the warmth of say Central or South America.
There is no perfect place. And I think it’s such a privilege to experience the contrast between countries. That’s why travel is so important. We’re different but similar in so many ways. Imagine if we could take the best of all these places!!!
SaltBrain1366@reddit
lol developing country... lay off the crack pipe, clown
deeplife@reddit
I can completely relate to what you say about food. I’m also from Latin America and now in Europe. I miss having cheap, fresh, amazing tasting food readily available. The fruit tastes so bland here in comparison.
zeynabhereee@reddit
I’m from Pakistan and I agree, the fruit back home is so fresh and delicious. Apart from the occasional apples and berries, the fruit and veg here are so bland and tasteless.
Balkanka@reddit
You should go back then
NectarineLumpy1833@reddit
No jobs and corruption son...otherwise, most people from third world wojld never leave
Frames-Janko@reddit
Won't change if everyone just leaves 🤷
scroogesdaughter@reddit
No, we colonised other countries and stole their wealth.
Frames-Janko@reddit
You know what's worse? It's not even clear if that was a big net benefit for the West. Look it up. Really crazy.
softwaregravy@reddit
It’s another level down in most of the US, California excepted. When I go to Europe I think the fruits and vegetables taste way better and the food is way cheaper.
InfraScaler@reddit
You guys talk about Europe like fruit in the UK (mostly imported) was the same as in Spain (mostly local)
RaggaDruida@reddit
I was thinking the same, I was also born in LatAm and then moved to Italy and Spain, honestly food quality did a massive jump up for me.
edalcol@reddit
Man do I miss guavas though
cheapmondaay@reddit
I was thinking the same thing but I’m in Canada. We have a lot of great seasonal produce as we live in a nice area for some types of agriculture (berries, squash, apples, etc) but other standard produce I’d usually get year-round in supermarkets tastes like nothing. If you want a tomato with flavour semi-close to the ones in Europe, you gotta pay $4 CAD at a farmer’s market for a single heirloom or grow it at home. 🥲 a mediocre tomato in France that tastes better is a fraction of the price.
ponpiriri@reddit
This hasn't been my experience at all.
Single-Pudding3865@reddit
I have been in many countries in Europe, Africa and Asia. My conclusion is that locally produced food in the season is the best. When you have to transport vegetables and fruits or it has to be stored, it deteriorates. Apples in Denmark are delicious but mangos are not very good. However in eg Bangladesh mangos are delicious but apples are awful.
no-just-browsing@reddit
I think a big part of getting good food in a country with strong seasons is knowing which foods to buy when (and where). This is something most locals learn from their parents while growing up, but can be hard to learn when you come to a country as an adult with establishment habits/tastes.
Like for instance, apples are very nice in the fall/winter here. But if you buy them in the summer, they have either been lying in a refrigerator for half a year of were shipped across the world.
Balkanka@reddit
Europe is not a country.
deeplife@reddit
Wow didn’t know!!
EatingCoooolo@reddit
I will never stop missing the taste of Namibian meat to the meat in the UK.
mjratchada@reddit
This is very inaccurate. What you are tasting is most likely pesticides in South America and poor quality food standards.
deeplife@reddit
No, I miss sweet and juicy mangos at reasonable prices. I miss cheap avocados that are consistently good. I could go on. There are some exceptions of course, but very few.
LynnSeattle@reddit
So you miss foods that are local to Latin America, but not Europe?
Fortunafors@reddit
You need to remember that most of current ingredients used in modern cooking is local from the Americas, you can go to Wikipedia and look what was food before the new world was colonized. Sure tomatoes can be farmed everywhere, but it won't be the same everywhere.
deeplife@reddit
Mostly, yes.
ruisen2@reddit
I think the grass is always greener on the other side. I feel like the fruits in Asia are divine compared to the fruits we have in Canada, but in Asia they pay eye watering luxury prices for strawberries and blueberries, whicch are common in Canada
goosetavo2013@reddit
Interesting point on luxuries like fresh fruits and vegetables. Those are plentiful in lots of Latin American countries. Had never thought about it like that.
rintzscar@reddit
They're also plentiful in many European countries. I've never seen fresh fruit and vegetables as a luxury. Sure, maybe not bananas, but most fruits and vegetables are grown here locally.
Prahasaurus@reddit
I live in the Mediterranean, and near my house are a number of banana farms. The bananas are smaller then South American bananas, but much sweeter, and so much tastier.
badlydrawngalgo@reddit
Lol. I've just posted almost the exact same wording about bananas from Madeira (Portugal). I wonder if they're the same variety as in the Med. Madeiran bananas are small, sweet and really "banana-y).
KindBear99@reddit
Genuine question for everyone asserting that there is plenty of fresh produce in Europe, please tell me how easy is it to get ripe (not rock solid) avocados and how expensive are they? What about cilantro? Just because you have lots of fruits and vegetables doesn't mean you have the same fruits and vegetables and perhaps OP values different ones than you do. Granted, maybe I'm wrong, maybe avocados and fresh cilantro are in every Carrefour, prove me wrong! Seriously though, I'm working on immigrating to the EU and I would love to be proven wrong because otherwise I'll need to grow my own avocados and cilantro and I'm not good at keeping plants alive!
badlydrawngalgo@reddit
I guess it depends where in the EU you want to move to. Avocados are grown in the Algarve in Portugal so they're readily available here. The last ones I bought were about €4/kg from the local market. Coriander (cilantro) is sold in bunches almost everywhere. In smaller shops and markets it usually has its roots on, so I just plant the bought ones in pots for a longer lasting supply (same with spring onions). Coriander is easily grown even much further north than Portugal, I used to grow it when I lived in the UK so I guess it would be easy to get in most of the EU. We don't have Carrefour here in Portugal but avocados and coriander are available in almost every supermarket I've ever been to and smaller grocery stores too. Best of all, they're readily available from the local, daily fruit and veg market, both as organic produce and non-organic.
Portugal is kind of lucky because we can source fruit and veg from the Açores and Madeira as well as the mainland so we have quite a wide range of "grown in Portugal" fruit and veg. Portuguese bananas are smaller but much tastier than those from the Americas.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
You're absolutely right that non local fruit and vegetables aren't necessarily cheap, but that's not what OP said.
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
Cilantro and avocados can be found in every single supermarket in the Netherlands. Often they sell more ripe and less ripe avocados as different products, as well as big and small ones.
rintzscar@reddit
I live in Bulgaria. You can buy ripe avocados all you want. They're everywhere.
Cilantro would be more difficult, some markets have it, most don't. Supermarkets don't.
Keep in mind that Europeans are much, much more likely to have the genetic variant of a gene that encodes their olfactory receptor to experience the taste of cilantro as the taste of soap, which makes cilantro an unpopular herb here. Around 30% of Europeans taste soap when they eat cilantro due to the aldehyde in it.
Radiant-Wishbone-165@reddit
Was thinking the same. I've visited most regions of the world and while the selection of local fruits and veggies varies, I've never had trouble finding them. Maybe OP was referring to restaurants? We typically get groceries and cook 'at home' while traveling
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
Perhaps there was a slight misunderstanding, yes, you can find local and seasonal fruits and vegetables, but they are a luxury and often expensive.
In South America it's the usual, you always eat "organic and local", because many times it's the only thing you can afford, or you eat what's in your garden or field, because it's cheap.
Here the land is blessed, it's easy to grow vegetables, it's usually the cheapest thing to do, and many don't do it as a hobby, they do it to survive.
Dazzling_Car_2913@reddit
I'm french and live in France, fresh fruits/vegetables are not a luxury at all, what are you talking about? It's a lot cheaper to cook from raw ingredients here, compared to "processed" food. If you choose "bio" vegetables then, yes, it's more expensive (although still not what I would call a luxury), but you don't have to.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
During my first years in France I had serious financial problems, and I lived a lot on eating the cheapest supermarket food and cheap vegetables. The markets aren't the cheapest option, but they're good, I used to eat the vegetables from the supermarket even though their processing was highly questionable.
Dazzling_Car_2913@reddit
And back home the vegetables you're eating don't have any pesticides and are cheaper then? (This is a genuine question, I'm not being sarcastic, just to clear things up :) )
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I'm from Chilean Patagonia, there aren't many mosquitoes or plagues for plants, also for that Chile os too strict to enter green products to the country at the borders.
People just don't need them.
CapitalFly1@reddit
I thought chile was as developed as france! Does Chile experience regular power cuts?
ZealousidealPlant781@reddit
Nah, they are more frequent than whatever I have experienced here in Amsterdam, but let’s say that over 4 years you would have one power cut in Amsterdam, while in Chile you would probably have 8, for different reasons. The main one is maintenance and the second is people hitting a pole with a truck that happens to feed your building. Overall, I think Chile has a good sweet spot between Latin American culture and food and European infrastructure (kinda like a middle of the road European country, like Hungary, Latvia or Croatia.) I moved to Amsterdam for career progression and for a friendlier, more developed culture for autistic children.
Dazzling_Car_2913@reddit
Oh ok! Well that's great for you (and your health) then!
rintzscar@reddit
Buddy, the vegetables in the supermarket in France are far, far, far better regulated than the "local, organic" vegetables in some small town in South America. I can guarantee you that you're eating healthier in France simply because there are actual rules and regulations.
mom2twins09@reddit
I would disagree. I never got sick once eating produce in Mexico and Colombia in small towns. But I always got sick from the produce in France. The produce in Mexico and Colombia also tasted better and fresher. Folks dismiss LATAM, but its top tier!
rintzscar@reddit
Literally one google search and I found that South America is the second-highest continent in chemical use per hectare of agriculture land with values three times higher than France.
Folks dismiss LATAM because it's corrupt and people don't care for the rules even if they exist.
mom2twins09@reddit
I did a search for the specific 3 countries I mentioned, and France is actually the highest. You can look on https://www.fao.org/faostat/en/#data/RP and compare the data yourself. But sure, when you include all of LATAM, where Brazil has the highest in the world, of course the numbers will be skewed.
Phantomilus@reddit
The three countries you mentioned Mexico / France / Colombia. France is the middle man for the two years I checked 2023 and 2022.
I added Chile and Argentina and Mexico / France still have the two last places by far.
2022 the weight of pesticides used per hectares of crops per countries:
Argentina 5.94kg/ha
Colombia 9.5kg/ha
Chile 16.02kg/ha
France 3.77kg/ha
Mexico 1.68kg/ha
Lao_gong@reddit
where were you eating though?
mom2twins09@reddit
Bio coop, produce markets in town squares, vegan restaurants, cafes, Carrefour, Leclerc, SuperU, Le Course des Halles. Tried several stores, markets, and restaurants. The food always made me sick whether I cooked at home or are out. I've lived in 7 countries and that is the only country where this happened. I've been in Poland 2 months and I've finally able to cook again and eat out without getting sick. Meaning the problem was the food in France.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
But they suck and are tasteless
NoLateArrivals@reddit
Vegetables and fruits in developed countries are breeded to be transportable and fit certain norms about size and shape.
Standard size and shape makes them tradable, because everybody knows what a „Class 3 Cucumber“ means, and what it’s worth.
Transportability is partly achieved by harvesting them early. Then they are stacked in huge storage buildings. They have chambers where a controlled environment including temperature, moisture and certain gases (like ethylene) are used to run an artificial ripening process. Lot by lot is taken from storage and treated.
They gain color and some sugar, but they won’t gain taste that way.
Yes, local products are tasting better, because they come directly from the farm, are ripe and are sold within a short time frame.
Whisperbird@reddit
I'm from France and I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about.
Fresh fruits and vegetables are not an expensive luxury thing at all?? You can find those at supermarkets, local markets, farmers, etc. They are a bit more pricy if you go to an organic local farmer but even then it's still affordable and cheaper than meat for example. We do also have fresh meat and fish.
Maybe if you are looking for the freshest of some rarer exotic fruits that have to be exported, but the demand is not that high for those anyway so that's probably part of the reason. I don't think you can find fresh durian at a classic supermarket for example, but you will definitely find local fresh fruits and vegetables for cheap.
Worth_Garbage_4471@reddit
I'm skeptical about the organic part. In India even the poorest farmers can pay a little for chemicals if they get it back in higher yield. You see them spraying everywhere. Don't just assume it's organic because the farmer is poor. Chemicals are cheap, universally available, and they are used because they offer a commercial advantage.
1K1AmericanNights@reddit
Organic isn’t defined as no chemicals, fyi. The type of pesticide matters - some pesticides are considered organic
Ricobe@reddit
Don't know why people downvoted this. It's absolutely correct
runmelos@reddit
It is only technically true. While yes, you won't find any produce anywhere that doesn't use some form of pesticides (if you are not growing it yourself). Organic does regulate what kind of pesticides are allowed to use (i.e. no synthetic pesticides). A poor farmer in South America will use the cheapest most effective pesticide available. Pesticides used in organic farming are more expensive and strictly regulated with less residues in the produce.
1K1AmericanNights@reddit
Reddit votes are sometimes about what people want to be want to be true 🤷🏾♀️
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
It’s sad because this is the “on paper” definition. However, it’s not the marketing or what people think of when they see the “organic” label. Fruits and vegetables with an acceptable amount of pesticides, depending on your Country’s regulated amount, is the definition of “Organic” lol
1K1AmericanNights@reddit
Yes, people definitely imagine organic means something very different than it does. In some cases, it can result in more pesticides, not less
peteuse@reddit
there are also often cases of farmers ending their own lives by drinking pesticide (in India especially). They use a TON of it. Also many varieties of rice they grow are GMO (I'm not against BTW) so this 'purity of the poor farmer' thing is way off.
gatapaseadora@reddit
Same , you walk aroubd bogotá on a weekend and you can find teucks with people selling fresh fruits on the street. O rememberwhen i webt to europe and found a tiny granadilla in 9 euros it blew my mind.
mjratchada@reddit
This sounds really inaccurate. Brazil is consistently in the top three consumers of pesticices,
BibliophileBroad@reddit
Also, organic fruits and veggies actually use chemicals / pesticides.
fruderduck@reddit
Organic gardening has really become corrupted. When organic gardening became really popular (Mother Earth News was often read by the same people - the 70s), the viewpoint was quite strict that no chemicals were used. Even the soil was tested in advance of planting to certify that it was chemical free.
Island_girl28@reddit
Ahhh, Mother Earth was great!!
peteuse@reddit
yes the copper-derived ones are very toxic
Ricobe@reddit
True but there are certain pesticides that are very harmful and that aren't allowed to be classified as organic
Tao-of-Mars@reddit
People don’t realize this. The regulation in the US is to be just 60% free of whatever chemical/toxin that makes the product organic.
RealFire7@reddit
I totally agree, I think theres this myth thats really prevalent that because you’re buying fruit from a market in South America and the operation seems very humble, that its organic or better quality. I’ve heard tons of South Americans champion their produce. And I wont disagree that the fruit in South America tastes really good and fresh, but (without any real research done) I’d be really surprised if farmers aren’t using tons of pesticides to increase yields. It’s not exactly rocket science.
I feel the same way about Europe - everyone rips on the food in the US… but industrial farming is everywhere. Sure, your tomatoes may come from some rustic farm in northern Italy, but I’d bet a hefty sum that they actually come from a similar operation as what you would find in California.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
Yeah this was my impression of Brazil too. I think that the general attitude in Brazil is that all kinds of processed and industrialized food in Brazil is better than whatever "lixo" you get in the US or Northern Europe by dint of being made in Brazil....but there's still lots of processed junk and industrialized agriculture. You need to go to feiras that are specifically organic. The supermarket and even some of the bigger feiras are selling stuff from the industrialized farms for sure.,
reddit_tat@reddit
So the weekly town markets in France don’t have fresh local produce and fish, cheese, etc.? I find that hard to believe. When it comes to what is “expensive,” that is subjective. Is this food something normal French people shop for and can afford? You can’t compare the cost of an item in one country where everyone in the supply chain has higher pay to a different country where that is lower. For example, many EU cell phone plans are way cheaper than in the US. Once the infrastructure is there, it is scalable. Why are US plans so comparatively expensive? Because the workers in that industry must be paid more to have a livable wage in the US, pay for health insurance and retirement, etc.
To compare what is expensive or not, I would ask if the locals can and normally do buy the thing, or if it is considered a luxury or a special or seldom-purchased item. And for produce you have to consider seasons in Europe being such that if you want bananas or tomatoes in winter, they will be imported.
I get that this particular thing is just an example in your post. It’s just odd to me that you would choose food as an example.
peteuse@reddit
I live in France and we have all the fresh produce and meats, fish, etc., at markets for reasonable prices. OP is romanticizing his past.
peteuse@reddit
this doesn't sound right. pesticide use is widespread in LatAm. Chemical fertilizers are cheap.
Trick_Estimate_7029@reddit
I understand perfectly what you mean
Radiant-Wishbone-165@reddit
Oh good point on organic!
Worth_Garbage_4471@reddit
I live in Switzerland, and even when there are fields of sweet corn in the summer, I can't buy fresh picked sweet corn. It doesn't appear in any shops in my area until it's been picked somewhere, stored until it's starting to mold, machine packed in a cardboard box and sealed with plastic wrap.
That's the only way I can buy sweet corn, though I can see a field of it growing from my back window.
Similar with other vegetables. We are generally prisoners of industrial food delivery supply chains here. Anecdotally, I the Cyprus countryside the fruit tasted a bit more like freedom.
rintzscar@reddit
Switzerland is one of the few countries which rely almost entirely on imported food. It's an outlier, not the norm.
zion84@reddit
Because they hold all the gold, chocolate, and watches 🤓
waudmasterwaudi@reddit
Well - the corn grown in Switzerland is grown as a source of food for animals. The harvest is done later. So it contains more starce and is not that soft. Like this less soja from south america is needed for feeding the animals. Even though a big part of this corn is used for biofuels right now, which is a trade off in my opinion.
RosieTheRedReddit@reddit
Yep this is what I've heard too. They also grow a lot of corn in Germany but it's used for animal feed.
I'm from the US and sweet corn is one food I miss the most 😢 Especially if you go to a farm stand by the road in Pennsylvania or upstate NY, where corn was picked the same day... Yummmmm. Sugar converts to starch over time so fresher is better. Corn in Europe is inedible to me.
My in laws live in Istanbul and apparently the Turkish method to cook corn is 30 minutes in a pressure cooker 😱😱😱 I was appalled the first time I saw it. Back home I would boil or steam for five minutes!! But the corn there is so tough you really have to do it that way. Even after being tortured like that the corn still isn't good 😢
manzanita_cheeks20@reddit
I find this so interesting coming from a sweet corn neighborhood myself. Corn is native to the Americas — I wonder if that has something to do with the quality differences
darkpretzel@reddit
From the US, I will now appreciate our sweet corn differently!
waudmasterwaudi@reddit
You are very right about that!
little24160@reddit
The corn there is not sweet corn but for cattle
Cancerisbetterthanu@reddit
Sweet corn for human consumption does not grow well in Switzerland
peteuse@reddit
I live in CH, I don't think it's SWEET corn. It's corn for livestock.
MamaJody@reddit
The fresh produce here is definitely lacking. It was hard coming here from Australia, where the quality is generally excellent.
lindemer@reddit
I think I understand what OP means. I've lived my whole life in the Netherlands, where fruit and veg is widely available, not extremely expensive, and often produced quite locally. But I've been to south America a couple of times and wow it's like you've never tasted food before once you get to experience real fruit and veg over there
rintzscar@reddit
That has nothing to do with "local" and "fresh". It's about how much sun the plant gets. In southern Europe, fruit and vegetables are tasty.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
That is my point, is not that is impossible to find, but after grow up full of that good stuff and eat always to your heart content, it hits hard when you move abroad.
h8101@reddit
Yeah this was kind of odd. The food quality and freshness in France is extremely high relative to most countries. People take their food very seriously there.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
(copy paste of another comment in case you didn't read it)
Perhaps there was a slight misunderstanding, yes, you can find local and seasonal fruits and vegetables, but they are a luxury and often expensive.
In South America it's the usual, you always eat "organic and local", because many times it's the only thing you can afford, or you eat what's in your garden or field, because it's cheap.
Here the land is blessed, it's easy to grow vegetables, it's usually the cheapest thing to do, and many don't do it as a hobby, they do it to survive.
Cool-Relationship-84@reddit
In Brazil definitely the (mis)use of pesticides is way more out of hand compared to Europe so the "organic and local" thing is more of a myth.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
Brazil has an issue, from where I'm in Chile, people just don't need them because there aren't many plagues for vegetables.
Also, organic doesn't mean that chemicals are forbidden, they let you use some that are allowed.
Phantomilus@reddit
Allow me a copy paste too:
2022 the weight of pesticides used per hectares of crops per countries:
Argentina 5.94kg/ha
Colombia 9.5kg/ha
Chile 16.02kg/ha
France 3.77kg/ha
Mexico 1.68kg/ha
Chile literally uses 5 times more pesticides than France.
Tao-of-Mars@reddit
This seems to be the case in Peru, as well.
iHateReddit_srsly@reddit
Most of the fruits I see from Peru (here in Canada) tend to be lower quality than other places...
rintzscar@reddit
Mate, you're hilariously naïve.
ziggy-zaz@reddit
I’ve lived in Paris and in small towns in various parts of France. Every one had at least one farmers market a week. Not expensive, quite the contrary! Good quality produce is not the exception, it’s the norm.
SanctoServetus@reddit
Local, yes — organic, prob not.
peteuse@reddit
not a luxury and not expensive. I live in France and Switzerland, and have lived in Spain and Germany as well. You are off on this one.
Woman_Respecter69420@reddit
They are not a luxury. What are you talking about
-----J------@reddit
I have never seen such perfect fruit and vegetables, not a blemish on any of them, as at Hypermarché in Paris.
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
sounds incredibly messed with 🤣🤣🤣
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
Bananas are interestingly enough like the least luxurious fruit. Very cheap.
rintzscar@reddit
That's because they come in their own packaging which keeps them fresh and makes them hard to perish. Raspberries are deleted from existence by a small bump. Bananas can be thrown around like boomerangs and still be eaten after that.
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
If my bananas are thrown around, they are immediately demoted to a smoothie ingredient. Love bananas, but I don’t like the abused ones outside a smoothie.
Island_girl28@reddit
Or banana bread👌
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
yessss!!
Island_girl28@reddit
😉
ponpiriri@reddit
In france, organic fruits and vegetables are a luxury.
rintzscar@reddit
He never said anything about organic. He said, and I quote, "local, cheap, fresh". All of that is available in Europe. Europe produces most of its fruit and vegetables. Stop believing nonsense. We're not eating lettuce from Argentina.
ponpiriri@reddit
Yeah, if you know anything about SA, you'd know that the fresh is talking about organic produce purchased directly from the producer.
Yes, that's available in the EU, but it ain't cheap. I could even get that in NYC delivered to my door more easily than in the area of France I live in, which is why people tend to buy conventional from a store or nearly expired from a market. You can continue to split hairs if you want, even though the majority understood what OP meant.
rintzscar@reddit
What OP said is nonsense. You can continue to defend nonsense, if you want, that's entirely your choice.
CertainFreedom7981@reddit
I rode my motorcycle through almost every latin American country, spent a year in small towns. And I disagree - the produce available most places is not great. I was always thinking - do they send all the good stuff out to the US?
Now I live in Thailand, and that is a different story!
Little-Street-1778@reddit
How is the food in Thailand? And what part? I am considering to possibly relocate there.
CertainFreedom7981@reddit
My favorite in the world, and I've been to about 50 countries. It's cheap, good and readily available. It's almost hard to justify cooking at home when you can get decent pad thai delivered on a scooter for like 1.50 US. (Buy two though potions are small for a 200lb American man) Still about $3 delivered.
I will say that in my opinion (and I know you aren't allowed to say anything positive about the USA on Reddit) the USA just does better food OPTIONS than anywhere else in the world.
In Seattle I can get good Chinese, good Mexican, good Thai, good Indian, good Italian in a 2 block radius - feel like pho tomorrow? You got 10 options.
Other countries do their cuisine well, but they can't touch the variety available in the US. I recognize those foods are all from elsewhere, but none of them have that broad scope at pretty high quality.
I'm big into fruit, so Thailand is great for tropical fruits, incredibly fresh, incredibly cheap and in abundance. If you've never had a mango off a tree or a mangosteen, it'll make you move across the world!
I'd like to start export if mangosteens, I think they'd travel pretty well and they're my all time favorite fruit. Just need to introduce them to the US market.
vicius23@reddit
I’m from Spain, which is widely regarded as one of the best places in the world to eat both in your house or at restaurants.
And I’ve been three times to the USA. Every single time I saw a very good range of healthy options, like in fruits and veggies, at least on medium and large cities. Better than Japan (also three times there) and most countries in Europe.
And I don’t see LATAM as a healthy place for food. It’s basically the opposite…
CertainFreedom7981@reddit
Yes, people on Reddit don't like to say anything positive about the USA, and they romanticize other countries, but latin and South American food is pretty bland. The produce in their grocery stores is often wilted and old. Compared to the pyramids of perfectly shiny produce at the most basic ID grocery stores it's very different.
goosetavo2013@reddit
I live in a medium sized town near a large fruit and veggie producing region. That’s probably the difference.
double_wheeled@reddit
Exactly.
Significant-Yam9843@reddit
Why people are forgetting to talk about the energy, the vibe, the warmth of the people and focusing on the veggies?
I mean, 'the latin american thing' or whatever 'metaphysical stuff' made her move back is literally what you have no way or whatsoever to import from a country to another.
It's like living in Brazil and missing 4 seasons and the snowy christmas or living in Denmark and missing the carebbean vibe. There's no way to buy that if not through a plane ticket.
The planet Earth is really amazing. The human existence is amazing. I guess her post wasn't about survival or trying to make ends meet while climbbonf the social ladder but about living a life with purpose, that you can look at and say 'yeah, that s it, that s what I want for my happiness now'.
Ricobe@reddit
And it's fair. However that too is more complex than presented. Parts of Europe are very warm and welcoming and others are colder in attitude. There's a huge variety. If you only live one place and judge the whole continent on that then you're getting a skewed view. The same goes for a country. There's a huge difference between people in Paris and in other cities.
Significant-Yam9843@reddit
Yes, you're right, things change drastically from country to country and inside the same country, let alone across the continents.
But OP didn't suggest any dichotomic narrative. Any person that implied she was lumping all french people together in a basket of 'people obsessing over smart fridges' while saying anyone in South America is warm and amazing seriously missed her point.
She actually wrote a very personal text about things that she saw, that she experienced as the person who has her particular backgroung. She didn't write to talk about about how France is bad or not or how South America is good or not; she was talking about herself and her feelings, about her reflections on what luxury and porverty really means after so many years abroad.
Pawtamex@reddit
Because people are shallow. I kept scrolling down and down to try to see if someone else got OP’s point. There was a lot of scrolling..
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
Because those things are subjective. Easy to discuss whether Europe has veggies.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
You got my point, this isn't a complaint, is just what I have lived both sides of the ocean.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to travel all over the world for my work.
I'm currently at a point in my career where I can work remotely from anywhere, after many good and bad times in Europe.
Every time I had to come to South America for work, it reminded me how beautiful it is, what I was missing, and that's why I made the decision to return.
No part of the world is perfect, but everyone can choose what their own perfection is.
Significant-Yam9843@reddit
<3 exactly! Your post is actually moving. I thought it was beautiful.
LukasJackson67@reddit
It is amazing how many say the exact same thing about moving to the USA to Europe and back to the USA and realizing how hard it is to find healthy food, etc
Alchemista101@reddit
plenty of healthy food in California, where most of the fruits and veggies are grown and where 40 million people live. Other places, like the Southern U.S. don't offer or value healthy food.
Island_girl28@reddit
Uhh, yes we do, here in the southern states.
Alchemista101@reddit
a mental and physical health hot spot lol.
LukasJackson67@reddit
The stores in the south like krogers’s don’t carry healthy foods?
Alchemista101@reddit
They probably do but not so fresh since produce mostly comes from California and obviously obesity rates are super high. There most be a reason why people say they can't find healthy food in at least some states
fruderduck@reddit
Plenty of fresh vegetables are grown in Florida, GA, AL, MS and TN. No lack thereof in grocery stores.
The lack exists only in convenience stores. I GUESS CA has the same lack.
We have plenty of sun, water and good soil in the south. Stop assuming all of the food in the US comes from CA. You sound like an idiot.
LukasJackson67@reddit
That is false.
Also depends on the season.
People aren’t obese because they can’t find healthy food.
Have you ever lived in the south?
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
Food Documentaries LOVE the U.S for this reason, but honestly, I don’t see the huge difference. I think, ultimately, what you find to eat is based on what you can afford and your lifestyle. There are too many healthy options in the U.S. That was one of the dots I never fully connected watch food documentaries and just getting food in general. Living anywhere, you’ll have to sus out the country for the good spots, and after that you’re golden. I wonder if people say stuff like “hard to find healthy food” mean just that out of it truly means “hard to find healthy food they like”. This excludes desolate lands of course.
LukasJackson67@reddit
I have never had a hard time finding healthy food.
Actually I have found it is cheaper to eat healthier.
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
I find it rather easy to find healthy food options in the U.S. I personally learned that I don’t even have to change my grocery story to be healthy and loose unhealthy pounds. It’s all about choices. This is why I cannot say it’s easier or harder in one country or the next. Unless, the land is barren .
LukasJackson67@reddit
I agree 100%.
cs_legend_93@reddit
Spend some time in Japan. You'll miss them for sure
Logic_Now_999@reddit
Not really. Until freezers and planes, lobster were plentiful and free, thus were considered servant food. They only became a luxury once the supply could be shipped around the world and people thousands of miles from the ocean could "show off" and eat them.
Singularity-42@reddit
They are plentiful in rural France as well, and of amazing quality.
paprikouna@reddit
In France too,.. but apples are mu h cheaper than mangoes.
Also I've never looked at a smart fridge, so not sure which circle OP was in
ExternalMurky3711@reddit
Could you elaborate on the coin in the freezer trick please? I’m just curious on how it works
novadpulsar@reddit
You put a coin on top of an ice cube inside the freezer. If you come back after work (10-12 hours away from home tipically) and check the freezer and the coin is now at the bottom of the freezer that means that the power went out for long enough for everything in the freezer to have thawed out and refreeze meaning it is not longer safe to eat.
kcchiefsfan123@reddit
This comment and experience makes us realize our priorities are all wrong in Western Countries. It’s a shame too. We are spoiled.
Excellent-Cell490@reddit
There is hoeflation too to take into consideration 🤣
Dunklzz@reddit
Me from the USA, reading this and thinking back to when I spent time in the south of France and their cheap, poor quality, produce was better than anything I can get here cheap or expensive 😄
cosmicselva@reddit
A couple years ago I took a solo trip to Costa Rica, and ended up backpacking nearly every country in central and South America over the two years. I fell inlove with the culture, the people, the way of life. The inconveniences, or rather differences in accessibility with Canada vs South America vanished in the face of the warmth of the people, the energy of the nature, the flavours and freshness of the cuisine.
My intention is to begin to make the move there permanently very soon.
double_wheeled@reddit
Where did you moved? I have lived SA and had all the "luxuries" you mentioned just cheaper. My only complaint is that streets in certain neighbors can be very dangerous in the night while in the day where normal, and safety overall (until you understand what places to avoid). There is poverty everywhere in the world, unfortunately.
Frames-Janko@reddit
At least stable power is totally achievable everywhere that has somewhat decent and reliable sunshine.
Solar on the roof, add some battery packs, done.
Prices are way down for that tech and there's literally no reason why this can't be the solution in most warm and sunny countries in a very foreseeable time period.
CaptMakesKidsKill@reddit
I just emigrated to France from Southern California, and the food here is cheaper, fresher and just better than anything except the highest end food in the USA.
inima23@reddit
Yes, once you've experienced a different way of life you'll feel like no matter where you are you'll miss things from the other place. I usually say I have no country because I don't belong here or there, either way you change based on your experiences so you'll always feel like you don't fully belong anywhere. That's the gift and the curse of knowing too much.
What is the coin trick? I may have to google that one.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
You put a coin on a ice cube, if the fridge thaws for a long time and then refreezes; the coin won't be there, it will be at the bottom of the ice.
Very useful for knowing if the food is still safe.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
People do that in the US South in the summer too. Power frequently goes out because of storms. Folks here just accept it as part of life. I tell them that people in Brazil (sounds like Chile too) would be protesting the electric company if the power went out that much there....
liquidpele@reddit
It does if you live in the middle of nowhere using pole lines that get hit by trees every few months… but no one uses the coin thing, it’s rare and you just go buy ice ffs.
fruderduck@reddit
Power frequently goes out? I’m in the south and it doesn’t. From storms (rain/ice) maybe once a year. Certainly more often near the coasts.
Most are from people hitting power poles with cars.
Generally it’s off less than an hour. Extremely rare for it to be off long enough for spoilage in the refrigerator, unless you’re in a hurricane prone area.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
Where I am in the South (Nashville), it will happen 3-4 times a year because of weather...rare for it go longer than 5 hours, but still happens. People deal with it and don't see it as out of the ordinary.
When I moved to Brazil (Recife), I experienced fewer power outages, but people got much angrier about them and saw it being a result of being underdeveloped rather than just coming with the weather.
Folks in the US are a little too comfortable with the power going out, and should realize that power going out, even because of storms, is seen as the result of poor infrastructure in most of the world.
dizzy56656@reddit
Comparing Nashville's powerouts to South America is hilarious lol. Being from Cuba and having family in South America, I can tell you, it's like comparing an ant to an elephant.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
Cuba is definitely different from Nashville. But the bigger cities in Brazil have quite stable electricity in my experience. When I was there there were occasional massive outages but they seemed to be about at the same level as what happens in Nashville after a tornado or major winter storm.
inima23@reddit
I lived all over the US and never and I mean never had an outage until I moved to the Carolinas and yes they happen more than I'd like because of power lines being outdated and above ground. I usually just run to the gas station and get some ice and we get through it. We also got a power generator since the hurricane impacted us for a couple of days last year.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
This is exactly what I mean...you figure out how to deal with it, but in most places having to buy a power generator is seen as evidence of general infrastructural decay and some kind of development flaw. In much of the US it's just viewed as being practical....the onus is on you to have the generation
inima23@reddit
Yeah, individualism and capitalism at its finest.
Yael447@reddit
that’s so interesting, never thought about it. I’ll do it just for the sake of it
dashboardhulalala@reddit
My Mum still does that and we're in Ireland, but she's very odd about meat safety so it makes her feel better.
inima23@reddit
Oh wow, would have never thought of that. You should keep ice in the freezer and put it in the fridge when you leave so that if the power goes out, the food doesn't spoil. It's a pain but better than throwing food out all the time.
TailorNo9824@reddit
That's how I describe what's it like being an adult TCK as well.
MJVann@reddit
Beautiful post
onbert@reddit
I have a feeling every expat will get to the conclusion that there isn't anywhere perfect
kondorb@reddit
I only realized how big of a luxury it is to have a large shower and your own washing machine inside of your apartment when I moved to...
Denmark.
iamnottheuser@reddit
Huh, that’s super interesting. Never expected that about Denmark. Why is that? Are houses usually too small?
Odd_Date4579@reddit
They likely lived in a non-expensive flat in Copenhagen where most of the flats were built back in the days and had shared bathrooms, thus there wasn't a lot of room to built them into the flats themselves later on. Something like that. Most houses have both large showers and washing machines. I live in a flat and have a washing machine. My bathroom is somewhat small though, but I mean most flats are like this unless you're rich for most countries I think?
kondorb@reddit
I grew up in Russia where not having your own washing machine sounds ridiculous. Even the tiniest of apartments make space for it. Affordable apartments have small bathrooms, but never as small as perfectly normal flats I lived in Østerbro and Nørrebro.
BlueTemplar85@reddit
I would guess that the popularity of laundromats also correlates a lot with the climate ?
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Spain too.
kondorb@reddit
The low end of apartments in Copenhagen all have tiny bathrooms barely enough to stand in. Many even have so called “wet toilets” - when your toilet is inside your shower and gets all wet whenever you’re showering. To save on square metres of course, since it’s super expensive in there.
And the majority of apartments buildings in Copenhagen ban installation of washing machines.
They say it’s to keep the noise lower. But they almost all have laundries in the basements that tenants have to pay extra to use. Which sounds to me like companies that own the laundries are paying off the building’s management companies to keep washing machines banned. Everyday corruption at work.
Cojemos@reddit
It's also often a two in one. The "dryer" doesn't do what a North American dryer does.
temmoku@reddit
The size of N American washers and driers kills me. We have a washer that is much smaller. Have a small drier, too, but it only gets used rarely in the dead of winter. Clothes are usually dried on the line outside or scattered around the lounge room where it is warmest.
mjratchada@reddit
In parts of Europe, in residential blocks, there are often communal washing/drying machines in the basement. For houses, it is different.
Terrible_Mortgage541@reddit
In dorms or very small older apartments in Denmark it's not normal to have a dishwasher, washing machine or the like. That said almost all other do have exactly that. And typically in apartment buildings there's a laundry in the cellar.
mjratchada@reddit
In parts of Europe, in residential blocks, there are often communal washing/drying machines in the basement.
Norwegian_ghost_fan@reddit
I didn't move far, only from Norway to Danmark, our neighbor country, and this absolutely stocked me. I didn't move into a dorm or anything, just a regular affordable apartment in Copenhagen and our bathroom was smaller than anything I have seen before. A shower had to be taken standings over (or setting on) the toilet. I think that bathroom was 1 square meter max .
vikungen@reddit
Doesn't Denmark need to comply with EU accesibility build code, making bathrooms big enough to turn a wheelchair in?
Pawtamex@reddit
Denmark LOL at EU codes…
Ricobe@reddit
The issue presented is mainly some old buildings that have been remodeled. Newer buildings and houses don't share this issue
Crystalizeds@reddit
New buildings probably yes. But if it was every building built in Copenhagen then 70% would not make the cut. A lot of places don’t have elevators as well
Bubbly_Ozzy@reddit
100%
you don’t realize how spoiled you were until you feed coins to a shared machine at midnight 😩
notbehindyoumaybe@reddit
I’m about to move to Denmark and hate that I can’t find a place with a bathtub. Not even for me but for my kids
Bandejita@reddit
These things are already common depending on what country in Latam you're in.
retrosenescent@reddit
And by "large", you mean "big enough to turn around in"
dallyan@reddit
It’s funny. My home country is much poorer than where I live now but the amenities there are much better. 😅
Lao_gong@reddit
but that’s normal for ppl to want more when they are still moving up . it’s like the situation with cars vs public transport in developing and developed countries .
lushico@reddit
As a South African living in Japan, I can’t believe what a luxury fruit has become. There is no cheap fruit. I can literally only afford to have an apple once in a while as a special treat. I used to eat them every day! All I can afford are bananas.
bendallf@reddit
Then you know what you need to do then. Open a large greenhouse power geothermal power to grow tropical fruits that have to be imported into Japan.
Jolly-Pause9817@reddit
This is a really great takeaway and understanding of being an expat in LatAm.
Objective-Barber-985@reddit
The warmth of the people and community is priceless
Dietmeister@reddit
You're right about the food. The reason for it is that we produce canned and refined foods so efficiently that it's much cheaper. But in actuality, it's not good for us.
It's quite strange, we should he able to buy food from the farmers more directly like they do in South America, but it doesn't seem to work. Mostly because farmers are further from the areas where people live
Horror-Task-2013@reddit
I think when you talk about France you probably talk about a big city, maybe París? I am from Europe, have travelled across Latin America, am married to a Latin American. I have lived in big cities since I started studying, but I come from a very small town in Italy. I had a normal oven, a normal fridge, and a comfortable bed to sleep in , but the real luxuries (which I didn’t know were luxuries until I moved out) where the fresh fruits and vegetables from my grandpas garden, the yellow eggs from his chickens, sitting outside in the street with your neighbours at night, the community all around. So this is the big city effect, not Europe vs Latin America
Intelligent_Poem_210@reddit
I was in Brazil at a friends house and I was so impressed with his shower. It was solar powered and perfect temps.
You made some good points though. It’s always good to look at things objectively
oaklicious@reddit
Good summary. I’m from the US and been traveling LatAm for a couple years now with plans to relocate permanently. There are a lot of tradeoffs to be made compared with life in the US.
At the end of the day you have to know yourself well enough to understand what are the qualities that are most important to you as a person. For me personally the prioritization of human connection here is just something I can’t live without. Also the food quality, I had a lot of stomach issues that I couldn’t figure out in the US and since leaving have all simply evaporated.
Common_Stomach8115@reddit
This.
Curious_Work_6652@reddit
when I lived in France I had a bunch of stomach issues, I think due to what foods I was eating. Once I got back home and got a diet with a strange amount of apples, bananas, raspberries, muffins and pork again I feel much better. I didn’t really eat any of those while I lived in France. While living in France I had to cut bread out of diet, french bread was making me violently ill.
seawordywhale@reddit
I just got back to brazil after spending 2 months visiting my family in the US. I had stomach issues every day for the first month I was there. I have traveled to tons of different countries, but the cramps/bloating/runs for a solid month was new to me. I'm happy to be back, and back to my regular weight now too.
analily55@reddit
Had the same issue coming back from vacation visiting family in Brazil this year
Eric848448@reddit
I'm from the US and had the same problem when I lived in the UK for about a year. Food poisoning-like symptoms for a few days every other month or so. No idea what it was.
LimaLove1985@reddit
What country are you planning to relocate to?
oaklicious@reddit
Most likely Chile.
futurefiction2@reddit
Everyone says this about the stomach issues and I was hoping to experience the same relief. However after raveling through Latin America and living in the DR now for almost 3 years my stomach issues like, cramps, bloating, nausea, etc have only gotten worse. I also have to be so very careful about what I eat as well to avoid food poisoning. Vegetables that i would eat raw in the US like lettuce I don’t even try to eat anymore. I even avoid fruits that don’t require peeling before eating. Honestly the food has been such a problem I am looking forward to moving back to the US. Wish if was like this for me.
ComprehensiveTill535@reddit
Have you tried taking strong probiotics?
Blues-fun@reddit
I mean… France? Come to Italy, you’ll find food, the vibe, the warmth of the people, and all those unnecessary “luxury” features 🇮🇹
Mamadeus123456@reddit
U just haven been to Australia, or new Zealand
vortexcortex21@reddit
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Australia has all local grown vegetables and amazing tasty fruit - and all the amenities and safety and security.
(Same for new Zealand)
vortexcortex21@reddit
Just from your examples you could go to Australia. You get safety and security, but you also get all amazing local grown vegetables and fruit.
HistoricalSympathy53@reddit
bravo!
Pleasant_Staff9761@reddit
Nowadays, even having a kitchen big enough to have a freezer is a luxury in many European cities.
SpectralEdge@reddit
I was in Zacualpan for two months. no hot water at all. that was the luxury i missed. now im in Guadalajara, i have hot water but i miss the fresh cheap food from Zacualpan. I totally understand.
larevolutionaire@reddit
Also stuff like hairdressers, beauty salons, that are totally part of middle class Latin America are a huge luxury in Europe . Where here a doctor has a live inn , a French doctor is struggling to afford childcare and it’s a huge chunk of her income. The very poor are better off in Europe where a welfare states is there( to keep them in their place, too) and the rest of us are better off in Latin America ( not Venezuela and probably not Suriname)
peteuse@reddit
Not true at all. In France and Switzerland where I am, there is a wide price range of price points for hairdressers/beauty salons. In Switzerland, right in front of my place is a barber that charges 20 francs for a men's cut, and this is not uncommon. In Lyon, my BF goes to a place that charges 12 euro. In comparison with the high salaries at least in Switzerland, that is extremely affordable for even a minimum wage worker (around 4000 francs/month), and the 12 euro in France is also quite affordable. Women's hair salons vary in price points as well.
Electronic-Syrup-570@reddit
in south Italy we got both lol
Alternative_Round173@reddit
A friend had a similar point about home employees: very expensive in France and very common in low income countries.
23454Tezal@reddit
What;s the freeze coin do?
notthetrumpiordered@reddit
A coin in a freezer is a trick to indicate a power outage while you are away. To perform the trick, freeze a container of water with a coin on top of the ice. If you return and the coin is still on top, the freezer likely did not lose power and your food is safe to eat. If the coin has sunk below the surface or is at the bottom, the freezer's contents thawed and refroze, so you should be cautious about eating the food.
From AI but sounds logical. Wanted to know as well.
Historical-Brush6055@reddit
I hate when ppl saying South America or Latin America and not ur Country Name.
Like all South America was same thing.
"I missed the 100% stable power. I missed the endless hot water. I missed the safety and the trains that ran on time"
I am from Brazil and u only get right the safety and maybe trains time. and what Country in South America don't have 100% stable power and endless hot water? r u from Cuba or Venezuela?
retrosenescent@reddit
Most of them.
InformWitch@reddit
This hasn’t been true since the late 90s. Now it’s mostly rural areas.
retrosenescent@reddit
Exactly
icefrogs1@reddit
Yeah I'm in mexico and I have gigabit internet and I see teslas and electric cars pretty often. Also I could buy smart appliances if I wanted, what am I supposed to be missing?
retrosenescent@reddit
Conscientiousness
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I'm from ths country side in the Chilean Patagonia.
Power outages are still a problem due to storms and heavy weather.
Or trees falling on the grid.
Far-Lecture-4905@reddit
Sounds like Atlanta or Nashville in the US....it's a trees and unburied powered lines issue.
icefrogs1@reddit
That sounds more like a rural and poor area problem more like a latam problem.
You could have all you described in your post in most capitals of latam if you made enough money.
Logic_Now_999@reddit
Huh? In the upper peninsula of Michigan/Northern Wisconsin frequent power outages are common place due to storms and tree taking out the power lines. Only in the last 10 years have you seen the "wealthy" houses install the back-up generators, prior to that everyone kept a fireplace and wood pile, maybe a portable generator for the fridge (which isn't needed in the winter as you just put stuff outside, and that is when the issue occur).
Grid reliability and wealth don't always correlate. Some regions just have environments that are significantly harder to install/maintain the grid.
icefrogs1@reddit
Cool story bro what does that have to do with the post? His story is obviously implying that power outages are a Latam thing (due to poor infrastructure/etc) but it's really not the case in a ton of places.
Logic_Now_999@reddit
That all his "experiences" have nothing to do with Europe or Latam. You can find all his comparisons in both places. It likely is more city vs rural living comparison. (In other words a bunch of BS).
icefrogs1@reddit
So exactly my point lol?
saibalter@reddit
I would just describe it as grass is always greener on the other side
retrosenescent@reddit
It seems more like the grass is greener where you water it. In france, they don't water the produce-grass. They water the smart-fridge grass.
Kuzjymballet@reddit
I live in France and have never heard of a person talk about a smart fridge. And I grew up in the US and France has 10000x better fresh produce. But it has to be in-season, versus tropical climates where the season is all the time.
klmsp@reddit
I agree. Having lived in 3 continents, France has very decent produces. The trick is to buy in season. OP only wants what is not native to France, of course it would not be as good. For the appliances, my fridge here is 1/3 of the size of the US. Could be the circle OP is in but no one talks about the fridge..
mom2twins09@reddit
The produce in France made me so sick. We are in Poland for 3 months and I can finally eat and cook again without getting sick. The food quality in France is absolutely terrible.
BlueCatSW9@reddit
?? You need to elaborate. I got sick on salad in the US, and learnt later on it had been bleached (for being a raw produce). Is there something similar that happened to you? Never had an issue in France.
mom2twins09@reddit
Tried several stores, markets, and restaurants in several parts of France. The food always made me sick whether I cooked at home or are out. We lived in France for 3.5 years. I've lived in 7 countries and that is the only country where this happened. I've been in Poland 2 months and I'm finally able to cook again and eat out without getting sick. Meaning the problem was the food in France.
BlueCatSW9@reddit
Sometimes our bodies react to things we don't like in an unexpected way. I could understand if your body made you sick so you would leave the country asap because you didn't get on with the country!
If you had the same issue at home it's a bit puzzling otherwise. Unless you come from the US and you are used to everything being sanitised, but then how to explain you are ok in Poland? The French do tend to refuse to sanitize too much as it's shared belief that it weakens the immune system. In the facts, it just means you might pick up things you dropped on the floor and still eat it, but that's as far as it goes, in addition to refusing the American way of sanitizing food with bleach or radiation.
Interesting, and glad for you that you are out of there!
mom2twins09@reddit
Yes, I'm from the US. Not sure regarding your mention of food safety because I never had any stomach issues when I lived in Mexico and Colombia and I was always eating food from the street carts. Those were not always the cleanest places to eat, but how can anyone pass up a street taco?!?!
My kids were the same, they were constantly get sick from the food they ate at their school canteen in France, so they started eating lunch at home.
I also love eating bread, but I could not eat any bread in France without doubling over in pain. In Poland, I can actually eat the bread here. It's just night and day. My doctor in France would always blame it on my Spina Bifida without running tests, but a doctor here in Poland actually ran tests and dismissed my disability as the problem. Whatever it was/is, I'm just glad to be able to cook at home with fresh produce without getting sick doubled over in stomach pain.
BlueCatSW9@reddit
Well I hope for you that you won't ever have to go to France again!
Live-Car164@reddit
Sounds like you are the problem buddy.
mom2twins09@reddit
Sounds like reading comprehension is your problem. Good luck with that!
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
In France you worry about a fridge with ice maker, water filter, etc.
In South America, you worry that the fridge hasn't thawed in the last power outage.
Kuzjymballet@reddit
I have never seen a fridge in France with an ice maker or water filter. I know because I always had that in the US but I've adapted and far prefer our produce here. But definitely agree that it's more of a luxury to eat local, seasonal and bio foods! The marché is much more expensive than the the supermarché.
ericblair21@reddit
Yeah, a lot of the produce in French supermarkets (bonjour Carrefour!) is, uh, not that great.
Big_NO222@reddit
Yep. I did US ->Europe -> US.. and pretty much most of Europe is PARADISE compared to the US as far as food goes.
Polardragon44@reddit
I mean he could he could get the luxury food in France and have both the luxury food and the lifestyle.
Maru3792648@reddit
Yeah… it’s funny because living in the USA as much as I love Europe I found their living standards more precarious. So it’s all a matter of perspective
spork3600@reddit
Really beautiful post.
I find the dichotomy to be exhilarating and love the mental adjustment it takes to move between two very different places.
idovgan@reddit
You realize there is no "perfect" place, just a set of massive, unavoidable trade-offs
Yes.
LeeSunhee@reddit
I feel the same just visiting the city vs being at home in the countryside (within the same country). People in the city pay premium price for mushrooms that I can pick just having a little stroll in the woods next to my house. I can drink pure mountain water whereas the water in the city tastes gross and is full of chlorine. We have neighbours who gift us whole crates of fruits from their trees whereas in the city you'd have to pay a lot to get a subpar imported tasteless fruit. Yes everyone wants to live in the city because all the jobs are there but the trade off is pretty heavy.
Appropriate_Fix_5817@reddit
Great post
nomamesgueyz@reddit
Yup
There's a lot of wealth and poverty in the world
MexicanPete@reddit
I feel this. I'm American, from Los Angeles, and live in Central America now. So many things from home I miss but when I am in LA there are so many things I miss from Nicaragua. There is good and bad everywhere. Take one with the other and keep on pushing.
ResponsibleSafe3247@reddit
Welp, I’m from Venezuela, I moved to the U.S. and got to make tons of money, then went to Europe and traveled all Latin america… I’m saying this to explain that I experimented luxury in different levels from the U.S. point of view of luxury, to Europe, to going back to incredibly poor countries where having $5 to buy groceries was already a lot. It really messed up my brain
mpbo1993@reddit
I’m from Brazil, and lived in US, Norway and Switzerland. You can’t get much more extreme than this in the “west” side. And you are spot on, there is not a single place that is perfect, and we have to y (and hopefully be happy) with the compromises.
I’m in a very lucky positions where now I can almost be at 2 of my favorite places at all times due to work, and on vacations to the other 2.
And very interesting point you made about the food, in Brazil is/was the same. The very poor in remote places (like the Amazon Forrest) have often a super healthy diet, with cassava, fresh fish and fruits, once Brazilians start to make some money, they think processed food is the new luxury (I will never forget going with my school to a remote island, and in the bed and breakfast we stayed in, because we were “rich kids from São Paulo” they bought industrialized cakes exclusively for us, if only they knew that for us the real luxury was to eat their home made and fresh food that was a thousand times better than that “food” they bought. This trend happens in all developing countries and you see the correlation with obesity, Lower income Brazilians are often overweight, and it’s only once they reach a middle-upper class of income and education that the diet comes back to its roots, full circle. Europe just happens to have a lot more people in those “upper” classes.
Tryingromakeitsis@reddit
Thi is great. Thank u.
roffadude@reddit
Your personal preferences aside, the food criticism is really only partially valid.
France isnt "europe", en not the US.
They have a particular taste for long lasting milk in France I remember, but move 100 km north and its 90% of milk consumption. I can't stand the long lasting stuff tbh.
Fish is just as fresh. But if you're not near the sea, or in a big city, I can imagine you only had local acces to supermarket fish? Don't know how to see that otherwise. The fish I ate in brazil gave me the runs multiple times.
There are literally 3 fish mongers in a 2km radius around me, so I really don't see how you got bad fish otherwise.
One thing that is true is that theres a much larger selection of fruits in general. The tropical fruits that are here are imported, so that means harvested unripe, en they generally dont taste as good.
And there is no such thing as a good baguette in LATAM (which is fine, acai is great for breakfast too).
Dimpnavangeel@reddit
so you got homesick.
it's a universal feeling mate, no need to connect it to luxuries...some europeans who moved to south america probably go back for the same reasons...it's hard to escape where you come from.
beaxtrix_sansan@reddit
OP romanticised Europe, then got a reality check but started romanticise LATAM and now reality check again. That kind of people is difficult to achieve satisfaction
beaxtrix_sansan@reddit
The trains that run on time LOL Some of those small city buses running through LATAM are sometimes more reliable than french trains.
mr_cf@reddit
A very stark and intresting juxtaposition! Sounds like you know where real value lies in life.
I live in the UK AND I’m edging into my 40’s. My nieces spotted a draw full of basic candle and ask my parents (their grandparents) “why did they have so many?”. My parents explained that powercuts were normal and regular, and it was only as I was growing up did the grid stabilise.
I’ve had simular converstations with my parents about car reliability. Their parents talk about only a generation before that getting water piped into the house, and having indoor toliets installed.
None of this is ancient history and yet within a generation or two we can really become accustomed to what was once a luxury becoming the norm.
Now we have smart fidges invading our homes with adverts. I honestly feel like the late 80’s in the UK was the sweet spot for innovation and quality of life, and we are slow going down hill in the other direction.
GaiaPijama@reddit
I lived in Latam and Northern Europe and this sounds like the OP is seeing Latam through the eyes of the European, romanticizing the farmer to table image. Depends of course where you are, it can be very different by country and by region within a country! There’s unregulated pesticides and yes indeed the best produce tends to be shipped off (in some countries) I get excellent avocados all year long now in Europe. I guess I was in a fairly large and urbanized city in Latam, maybe (some) small towns in SA still have what the OP describe but agriculture is and has been on USA sight in the form of treaties and what not for decades, greatly influencing its trajectory.
I for one don’t trust what I’m told about the food in Latam. Organic? How can I collaborate that. On the other hand I buy organic in Europe and now I have to worry about PFAS… I think we have entered a period in time where no matter where you are, you have to get creative and do your research to get “good” produce.
I do notice the difference in taste in some fruits when I go to southern Europe. The taste of the sun in tomatoes is always heartwarming.
Tru2qu@reddit
Well said
retrosenescent@reddit
I love your post. You captured the nuance of tradeoffs well. I am moving to Mexico soon (from the US) and am sure I will realize how much I miss having access to clean (and reliable) water. And clean air.
Few_Requirement6657@reddit
I moved to Mexico from the U.S. there’s easy clean water work arounds because you can just buy filtration systems for your sinks. It really depends where you live in Mexico and how old your building is. There’s lots of cities with clean air too. The thing you will probably have the hardest time with is not the water or air quality, but Latino time, unless you don’t speak Spanish, then that will be the hardest thing
icefrogs1@reddit
Do you think mexicans drink dirty water? We just don't drink tap water, clean air just avoid big cities.
Significant-Yam9843@reddit
I was about to ask people about it right now
retrosenescent@reddit
I'm sure some do, just like in the US.
Right.
LynnSeattle@reddit
You can buy clean water. I can’t imagine moving to a place without clean air.
retrosenescent@reddit
It's surprisingly not noticeable. In Denver the air is "unsafe" for most of the summer, yet I don't even notice a difference.
Logic_Now_999@reddit
You don't have to compare countries for the tradeoffs OP listed. These can be seen in about every country based on where you live (i.e. city vs rural).
GASC3005@reddit
Tremenda analogía hermano y estás en lo correcto, cuando nos mudamos a un país algo sacrificamos ya que en la vida no se puede tener todo.
Un abrazo fuerte y que te vaya mucho mejor en donde vives ahora, un abrazo desde 🇵🇷❤️
Adventurous-Grocery@reddit
You were a low peasant back in south America and you came back to be the same. There's nothing to envy on a European city if you're from/live in a good Latin American city plus you have a way to make a decent living.
And of course it's better to be poor on heavily subsidize economies/countries... France for example.
Sad-Bluebird-2244@reddit
Moving from the U.S. to Ireland and I know there will be MANY trade-offs. No place is perfect, there will be challenges there as well. Thankfully I’ve been there loads of times to visit my husbands family so it won’t be a huge shock, but I know there will be things I deeply miss
Imaginary-Skill-8502@reddit
that coin trick tho.
manzanita_cheeks20@reddit
Lovely post - thanks for sharing. I feel I can relate to some of the comments based on my experience of moving from rural America to a couple different major US cities and now back to rural America.
dogmom34@reddit
As an American who moved to Mexico (and not a beach town; I’m in my 30’s, not a retiree), I completely agree.
Swordfish353535@reddit
im living in mexico now, are you saying we can get cheaper healthier meats and stuff here? i find most stuff from farms expensive (in quintana roo) vs chedraui, soriana etc
Swimming-Art-1237@reddit
Meat here is more expensive compared to other things because I don’t think they have the same level of industrial farming practices at least in some places. I’m near Querétaro, also in the middle of the country and the meat is affordable for me at least, like you can get a decent amount for a few days for 200 pesos, but on the other hand you can buy pulses and beans for practically a month with that in some markets.
Swordfish353535@reddit
I've never heard of the word pulses in food, is that like seeds? overall beans, chickepeas, lentils etc?
They do love their beans over here and I am always buying them honestly. Usually 20ish for a can so maybe I need to try get from market.
Swimming-Art-1237@reddit
Ya they typically sell them in a hard form, as in dehydrated without being in a liquid like they would be in a can. Depending on the city you can
dogmom34@reddit
I’m in Queretaro. I was mostly agreeing about the warmth from people and the vibes, how there’s no perfect place, and that I’d still rather put up with power outages and some hot water inconveniences than go back to the US. As for the meats, while cheaper than the US, Mexico is definitely not cheap!
Swordfish353535@reddit
sorry i think i said the wrong comment to u and someone else i was tired lol
mexico is amazin i agree with you the vibe/people/community, im fine with power cutting off and inconviniences if it means
icefrogs1@reddit
If you completely agree it seems like you don't make enough money. How are you lacking anything mentioned in this post (smart appliances, etc), these are all perfectly available for upper class mexicans.
dogmom34@reddit
lol Omg chill. You drew the fact that I don’t make much money from saying I agree with them? I agreed on what they said about the vibes and warmth from people, how there’s no perfect place, and I’d rather deal with power outages and some hot water inconveniences than move back. Your assumptions are wack. Please touch grass.
icefrogs1@reddit
No it just bothers me when people think it's impossible to get running hot water and decent power/internet in latam lol.
retrosenescent@reddit
You're strawmanning everything he said. There are parts of LatAm where those things are hard/impossible to come by, and other parts where they aren't. That's true most places in the world. Why are you bothered by that?
Dreadsin@reddit
It’s really interesting that “basic” things are considered a luxury in expensive countries
Like if you say you live in a walkable city and you go to the farmers market for fresh locally grown vegetables, you could be a rich person in New York City or a not so well off person in New Delhi India, they mean very different things
chuligirl@reddit
Europe is the best place on earth. Estás tratando de justificar que no te fue bien en Europa y has vuelto a sur América. América del Sur reúne todo lo peor del planeta: pobreza, violencia y precios altos
josh2josh2@reddit
Funny because there is a huge emigration from young French people...
Pleasant-Carbon@reddit
Here we just get the hass avocado. I miss Colombian avocados. So juicy and fresh. Can be added to any dish.
vankoel_nederland@reddit
You should try Netherlands, where also good ingredients at the supermarket are a luxury.
Pinknailzz69@reddit
The best food I eat is the cheap local Thai food in Bangkok. I can’t believe the prices expats pay regularly for processed food imported from wealthy countries.
MapleHaze401@reddit
I'm Caribbean living in the scam in Canada and me and my friends were all taking our wealth, education and going back to our home countries/country of parentage or LatinAmerica. Quality of living is superior,far better middle class and you can't beat the sunshine, better quality food and neighbors.
Swimming-Art-1237@reddit
I’m from Canada and they definitely go out of their way to make money off of people coming in (and people living there who can’t rely off of housing equity). In Pearson airport I always see groups of guys from different countries get targeted by other immigrants working for CIBC or some other bank to sell credit cards with insane high limits, and scammy mobile contracts.
MAndyJep@reddit
This is so good
porkchopbub@reddit
I feel this in my soul!!! I grew up in North America but spent 3 years in the Carribean. The power outages really pmo but I also miss how organic and amazing the food was. Some countries are so privileged and it’s hard to understand unless you’ve lived it. Both have pros and cons for sure
Lucky-Dust-7209@reddit
When I read this .. I thought about the story with fishermen and the businessmen .
https://youtu.be/3l0hkSKf8YM?si=TrHyUaDOc1R86RtU
Drbilluptown@reddit
I went to four continents during my time in the U.S. Navy. The most important thing I learned is that people are pretty much the same around the world. Heavy lesson for a 20 year old.
enlguy7@reddit
I mean, we're all human, but I went to a lot of countries thinking, "We're all basically the same," and learned differently. Maybe you weren't immersed in local cultures in your naval bubble. Also, how broad are you going? Most people want a decent life. If you stop there, I suppose it's easy to find similarities everywhere. If you actually go deep, and you can't do that without living somewhere a while, you start to find a LOT of differences even between countries that are usually described to be 'quite similar.'
ArielofIsha@reddit
Yep. I’ve lived on three continents and learned that we all have the same wants and needs. Just looks different. Why my husband and I are taking our kids around our country for two years. Then moving abroad with our kids for a few more years. They need to experience this. It helps learn tolerance and respect.
Drbilluptown@reddit
That it does. Enjoy your travels.
CountryRoads2020@reddit
Oh, that is something I hadn’t even thought about. I’ve not travelled extensively and this gives me reason to think about my travels with this foremost in my mind.
MadFox7@reddit
I second this after living in four continents too. And on top of that, people who tend to generalize about cultures and stereotypes tends to be closest minded people
Swimming-Art-1237@reddit
I was thinking about this since I’ve been in Mexico. In Canada (where I’m from), wealthy people eat fresh fruits rather than using microwaveable food. Additionally, poorer places in Mexico seem to be far more green, since wealthy parts where cities are located tend to have less nature. In Canada, we’d think of palm trees and sunshine as luxury because people only get those things when they go abroad, but here you can be in the hood and it’s all palm trees and blue sky.
CerdoUK23@reddit
Move to ARG mat. It’s like France but with white people in.
lalalalaxoltl@reddit
The food you grow up eating is always going to have a special place in your heart, it's really hard to go from familiar, comforting food to an entirely new culture's cooking and what's available there. I had a very similar shock going from a huge variety of vegetables, fruits, and the processed luxury items too being widely available, to going to the UK where you actively had to go out of the way to find an avocado, and the vegetables never tasted the same compared to the variety of fresh produce available where I grew up.
no-just-browsing@reddit
I would also argue that maybe the real luxury is that you can even buy these fruits like avocado at all in the UK, considering that they cannot be grown anywhere nearby and have to be shipped across the world.
Like how crazy luxurious is it that we can for instance buy grapes here year-round when you can barely grow them here in summer and they don't refrigerate that well.
enlguy7@reddit
Take my upvote - for a relatively concise and somewhat specific post, it speaks louder than you might think.
The thing that resonates most for me is that there is "no 'perfect' place," 'just tradeoffs.' I've been "nomadic" the last... jesus, it'll be eight years in the spring. I left to find MY perfect place, and even that has been elusive. When I look at a map now, instead of thinking, "Oh, there's THAT amazing country that is rated one of the happiest and most equal in the world," I now see it more as a blur including how many reports of racism exist there amidst the marketing hype of equality, or the housing crisis that caused me nervous breakdowns, or the overt sexism that exists there.
It's easy to say, "Well, every country has it's problems," or "it's ups and downs." But that truth hits deeply for me these days. There is definitely no perfect place in this world. No utopia. As someone with the freedom to live many different places, it makes choosing a place to settle down even more troublesome. I'm tired of moving around. The life I live used to sound like a dream to people, but even those stuck in one place I think have started to see past the "digital nomad hype." Anyone that says I'm living their dream life, I tend to quickly add it's not simple. It genuinely pains me to write this, but one of the biggest reasons I left my country of origin was to find more meaningful relationships (really didn't think I'd ever find what I was looking for in that culture), and while I've had many more meaningful exchanges in Europe (for example, but that's sort of been my 'sweet spot' in terms of region), how meaningful can things get when you have to move on after a little while due to immigration, housing, whatever factors end up coming into play? Even places I've stayed longer-term, truly cultivating that takes meeting the right people, which comes with some luck, and putting the energy in to grow those, as well as being there long enough it will become something that matters enough to nourish even if you're not physically there.
AttitudeMore1971@reddit
Absolutely well said. Thank you for sharing this.
Electrical-Tone7301@reddit
I try telling this truth to people starry eyed about coming here but they never believe me. You have to live it to understand it completely.
CrackNgamblin@reddit
You're not wrong. I still dream about the mangoes and avocados in Colombia.
Sophie_Doodie@reddit
In Europe, comfort is about convenience and stability; in South America, it’s about warmth, freshness, and connection. Once you’ve lived both, you can’t unsee the trade-offs, one side has structure but feels sterile, the other has chaos but feels alive. You end up realizing that real luxury isn’t stuff or status; it’s having the freedom to choose the life that feels right to you.
Threxx@reddit
Your comments remind me how through most of human history, being fat almost aspirational. Like only the very wealthy could afford to overeat to such a degree. Now in a very short span of time most of the ultra-wealthy aspire to be as fit as practically possible, while obesity seems to be more of an epidemic of poorer socio-economic classes where the time, cost and effort to eat healthy and visit a gym is just too high.
elektero@reddit
how are fresh vegetables a luxury in France? it's not. It's basic food
DemoneScimmia@reddit
Can't really relate: I live in Northern Italy and I have access to both fresh seasonal fruit /vegetables and to a Western lifestyle.
maporita@reddit
What you describe was the case 30 years ago .. not now. Obesity rates across Latin America have exploded, in particular for poorer people, because of the wide availability of calorie dense, nutrient poor and ultra cheap processed foods. In fact the biggest marker between those who eat healthily and those who eat poorly is socieconomic, and that applies in rich countries as well as poor countries.
Go to any large metro area in Latin America and visit the rich neighborhoods. You'll find organic food stores and gyms packed with young professionals obsessed with fitness and health. Now go to the poor areas .. most people are overweight or obese, and food options consist mainly of fried fast food. It's a tragedy that governments have been slow to address.
treeline1150@reddit
Same in the US. Educated professional types tend to eat much better and exercise. Poor people shop at supermarkets with limited choices. I was in Salvador, Bahia, recently and was surprised how many overweight people I saw. Mostly women. The weight vs socioeconomic argument seems almost universal now in the Americas.
TabithaC20@reddit
You will find expats that find a way to live the luxury life everywhere. I grew up working class and have never gotten accustomed to luxury items like precision ovens, air fryers or curated groceries because I'm frugal and always looking to be economical or environmentally friendly. However, I work with people who cannot function without a housekeeper to do their laundry, fold their laundry, prep food for them, collect groceries, and who will not take public transit. The first thing they do is buy a big SUV with heated seats and AC because they can't wrap their mind around riding a bike, walking, or taking transit (if able). It's a mindset and I find that most of them are not very flexible mentally either. Safety, stable power and hot water are definitely hard to do without once you have gotten accustomed to them though. Good post and perspective!
Tro_Nas@reddit
There is only one thing I miss everywhere outside of Switzerland. Our tapwater. I haven‘t been in another country with consistently good to great tapwater. New Zealand wasn‘t bad, but in big cities it wasn‘t as good as here.
blackkettle@reddit
I mean... public transport and safety are also completely incomparable to anywhere other than probably Japan and South Korea. Maybe also Singapore and Taiwan? But I also agree about the tapwater.
Tro_Nas@reddit
well, public transport might be great here, but many many countries have very good public transport too. But since we’re a tiny country that relies on compromise politically, even sparsly populated regions often have a working public transport. Thats a difference to say France, Poland or Portugal imho. I guess both safety & public transport combined are the ones you mentioned and thats it.
blackkettle@reddit
I’m sorry but there is nowhere in Europe that compares even ballpark with Switzerland on public transport, and nowhere else in the world other than the couple of Asian countries I mentioned. It’s not even close.
Tro_Nas@reddit
you think? I‘m in Germany every other week and have travelled around 10 countries extensively plus around 30 briefly worldwide. Yes, Switzerland is S-tier transportwise, but if you‘ve been to countries in Africa and the Americas, most european countries are doing really really good. It‘s about perspective. For example my understanding was, that british public transport was shit. But it was honestly better than expected. Bit worse than Germany, but nowhere near the shithole it gets rep for. Imho. But I know living and travelling are separate.
blackkettle@reddit
I grew up in the US, spent 10 years in Japan and the last 12 in Zurich. I travel to Germany regularly for work and holy shit… it’s night and day. Of course Germany is still better than the US or Mexico but that is like comparing a donkey cart to a Lamborghini. Every time I’m on a train crossing into Germany - pretty much without fail - it is immediately delayed after we cross. France is always on strike. Italy , Poland whatever all comparative messes. No comparison for me; I’m so spoiled now I could never leave again. Luckily I don’t plan to!
Tro_Nas@reddit
it‘s night and day to the US. But you still have connections to most places, you ger your money back or a reroute if you miss your connection et cetera. I know it‘s a hassle, but it‘s not like Switzerland is at 95% Germany at 50% and Botswana at 5%, more like Germany at 85%. You know what I mean?
blackkettle@reddit
well it's all opinion i guess, but for me every time I leave Switzerland it _feels_ exactly like Switzerland 95%, Japan 96%, South Korea 94%, Germany 50%, Southern California 5%....
Tro_Nas@reddit
fair enough 🤷♂️
astoryfromlandandsea@reddit
It is the same in Austria (fresh mountain water on tap). Nothing compares. I miss it!
Tro_Nas@reddit
yeah I guess so :)
LowerBar2001@reddit
The real luxury is being able to decide and pack your bags to go wherever you want to.
LilRedDuc@reddit
I find concept inaccurate. Because irl there are visa requirements and restrictions. I am privileged enough to have plenty of resources and a decent passport, but still I cannot just pack up and live “wherever I want to”. Some countries won’t have you there for more than a tourist visit, especially if you’re not what and who they want.
LowerBar2001@reddit
You are explaining exactly how their privilege works. Even some people with resources from "good" countries find it hard to just hop around the world like that.
LilRedDuc@reddit
Totally! Especially when we recognize privilege as more than just how much money is in your account. Any country that sustains a higher level of infrastructure is going to be pretty selective. And rightly so. Having money by itself doesn’t cut it, especially if one is old or sick or uneducated and thus a drain on their system. A lot of countries have visa requirements based on an immigrant’s youth, level of education, and ability to work (or maybe study). There’s a reason the “top 10 countries to retire to” and “top 10 digital nomad destinations” is always the same old list year after year because those are the places where money alone can qualify you to live there. But at the end of the day, being an expat means you’ve leveraged some sort of privilege in order to immigrate, even if many of them try to eschew the term “expat” by pointing out that they are immigrant.
Gingerbutt81@reddit
Wow thank you so much for sharing this. It is so so true. I’m an American who has lived in Spain for a couple of years but spent much time in Mexico as a kid because I have a lot of family there. I was hoping to find the same warmth in the people while still living with most of life’s luxuries.
I found out pretty quickly that Spanish people are not the same type of friendly as Mexicans and South Americans. I also find myself now really missing things like central a/c and heating. When I went back to Texas for a month it was also so nice to chat with strangers. People were so friendly and totally forgot that. If I ever try to be friendly to someone on the street in Spain I just get a weird look like I said something offensive. I really miss the warmness of people.
TYNCueva@reddit
In what part of Spain? I’ve heard that Andalucía is quite friendly, whereas the north is more reserved. I’m planning to relocate from Central America to Seville or Granada in the next couple years so I’m hoping this is true!
Kind-Can3567@reddit
Guy is from Texas, people are extraordinarily friendly there. Miss it
Gingerbutt81@reddit
Very true. I grew up in a small town and it wasn’t uncommon to even say hi to strangers in other vehicles while driving. I remember the first couple times I said “buenas” and smiled at a person on the street here in Valencia…absolutely no response or gesture whatsoever lol
Kind-Can3567@reddit
I lived in the Brazos Valley for about 2.5 years. I concur again
Gingerbutt81@reddit
In Valencia. I will say that I lived for 6 months near Malaga and they seemed much more friendly here!
TYNCueva@reddit
I know places like Valencia and Málaga, both in recent years having had the dubious distinction of topping many “best place in the world to visit/live” lists, have been inundated with housing shortages and skyrocketing rent prices, with swarms of tourists. It’s why both have been crossed off my relocate-short list, at least for now. I’m sure many locals feel besieged. Sort of like Colonia Roma in Mexico City.
Gingerbutt81@reddit
Yeah we are considering moving from Valencia in the near future but it does seem like Spain as a whole is getting overrun with immigrants like myself and tourists. I’d be curious to check out Cadiz but would prefer to be near a decent airport.
HopeMcL@reddit
Not sure about Seville, but people in Granada weren’t friendly in my 2 year experience :/
mjratchada@reddit
Where exactly were you in Spain? Because this is not most people's experience.
Gingerbutt81@reddit
In Valencia
Ok_System9780@reddit
It is funny how those "luxury" stuff, ,from endless hot water, to precision appliances...even cheaper, can be also be found in south america; even in some cities , nice train systems. Right now, the biggest trade-off is security, which still a pain, as well as low salaries and corrupted politicians. But The fact that you didn't get to know all of the continent and went straight to Europe, does not mean you can talk for all of south america.
I guess this is the kind of posts that makes people still think all of south America is just a big jungle with guerrillas. (Even though there's still plenty of towns that look like favelas or a mars colony)
But I kinda agree with something... Fresh food, fruits and vegetables is like from another planet to first world countries, while for us, is just everyday's food. And yes, I know , and have been to little towns like the one you say your are from.
AllaZakharenko@reddit
You can sort out the electricity and hot water even in a very poor country, it just costs money.
Privacy42@reddit
I am curious regarding what food you get in LatAm that you didn’t in France? In my experience you can pretty much get anything, you just have to pay (sometimes, a lot).
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
That is why I decided to go back.
Instead of peace and stability, I prefer to eat "luxuries" like avocados, mangoes, açai, and sweet corn all year round and whenever I want.
I prefer to go to a party or pub and dance until dawn, where there is joy, music that isn't just reggaeton, and they don't dance as if it were choreographed.
I prefer to go out and greet my neighbors and have conversations with strangers.
I prefer to be in a place where if I want to make my garden, I can do it without much care, really. In France, one had to invoke all the known gods to plant things without dying...
Privacy42@reddit
What about the dancing that is not reggaeton, can you clarify?
Whisper326@reddit
I'm french. This post is BS.
We don't crave "air fryers" nor "intelligent oven", nor consider it a luxury... or might be a 0.0001% of our wealthiest karen living in ultra wealthy households. We have fresh fish - our country is bordering 3 seas ffs-. We have abundance of local fresh fruits and vegetables - we are 100% food autonomous, one of the few countries in EU to be in fact, and export our food production surplus to other countries - These are common cheap products - and we even have exotic ones such as banana, pineapple, mango, avocado, etc thanks to our overseas territories).
This post reads like a wanabee expat who lives in US rather than France.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
The French on Reddit are a bit pissed off.
I lived in Ariège and Aude, in the countryside, in the heart of the production area, I even worked in the markets and I know what I'm talking about.
I was talking to the producers themselves about how they have to "show the nice produce" otherwise people don't shop them, also is there is less and less seasonal produce available and because the demand is always for imported products. That's why it's expensive in comparison.
I never said it wasn't possible to find them, but they are expensive. Yes, the French have more purchasing power, but for me it's sacrilege to pay 1-2 euros for each avocado, or to buy watermelons by the slice.
Tu es le conard, français classique qui pique une crise et donne une mauvaise image des français à l'étranger.
tyojuan@reddit
Can understand perfectly your post. Living by in Japan for more than 2 decades and coming from Colombia I can say that the requisites for happiness in a developed society are way higher than in a developing one. Japan is in many aspects quite developed and the level of welfare is high, comfort and predictability are the norm. However I can see (still live in Japan) a lower level of enjoyment than in my native country. There is a constant long for perfection that cannot ever be achieved, with the expected levels of frustration and disappointment. Back in Colombia the expectation level is lower and you have to understand that human nature is fallible. People make mistakes more often than not and that is it. There is not extra enjoyment or reward for aimless perfection. On the other hand there is more space for improvisation and serendipity.
Going back to your post, things like in Colombia are a given (fresh produce, spontaneous coffee talk with the neighbors, impromptu party with friends) are things that require plenty of planning and preparation in Japan.
Liquidator97@reddit
There are affordable fruit and vegetable markets everywhere in France, even in central Paris. I've never ever seen a French person be bothered about "ugly" fruit. Where on earth did you live?
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
The French on Reddit are a bit pissed off.
I lived in Ariège and Aude, in the countryside, in the heart of the production area, I even worked in the markets and I know what I'm talking about.
I was talking to the producers themselves about how they have to "show the nice produce" otherwise people don't shop them, also is there is less and less seasonal produce available and because the demand is always for imported products. That's why it's expensive in comparison.
I never said it wasn't possible to find them, but they are expensive. Yes, the French have more purchasing power, but for me it's sacrilege to pay 1-2 euros for each avocado, or to buy watermelons by the slice.
sryazigi@reddit
I love the warmth of people and the vibes here, but I'd do anything to have more purchasing power
Traditional-Ad4506@reddit
Thanks Chatgpt
blackkettle@reddit
Right? The 'final twist' is the luxury to have an LLM write/rewrite your post for you!
Ecstatic-Eggplant-89@reddit
For real how do people not see this
Loopbloc@reddit
This is the power of nuclear energy: continuous and reliable source of energy. No problems with power cuts as in other renewable energy countries..
mjratchada@reddit
Power cuts are due to infrastructure issues, not the type of energy produced.
Loopbloc@reddit
How about during 2025 Iberian Peninsula blackout? At the time they were running on mostly renewables.
LaoBa@reddit
Power cuts aren't a problem in Europe, no matter what the country.
Neuroticcuriosity@reddit
We get cuts in Scotland, but that's because England steals a bit too much of our energy during the summer.
Team503@reddit
Because the grids are interconnected, so local power plant failures don't have that much effect:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Europe_Synchronous_Area
lonchbox@reddit
I´m from south america too, live there till my 21, after 20 years in Europe (Spain) I figure it our luxury is not only have current water, electricity without cuts, transportation and secutirty. It´s time, no matter how much you earn or how many things you have or nether how much they cost or the brand. Real luxury is having the capacity to use your time as you please, work more or less, enjoy your activities, spend time with family and relatives, have time to rest, think or even do nithing.
I can´t have that time there, but I can do it here in Europe, maybe I will never be rich, but I value more my time than anything else.
Inevitable_Ant5838@reddit
Wow, what an amazing realization to go through. Congratulations. Best of luck. I hope you settle back in.
Lulu_Stardust@reddit
Oh, I’m interested. What’s the coin trick? Also, which country did you move back to? I know you mentioned it wasn’t your country of birth. I ask because I’m considering a move back to Latin America as well. But, like you, I don’t think it will be the country where I was born.
Any insights you can share about the experience are greatly appreciated. I’m moving back for similar reasons you mentioned. The luxuries like warm and friendly people, our beaches, our mountains and our food options that just can’t be replicated elsewhere, regardless how first world the developed countries I’ve lived in are considered. What would you say were some of the biggest challenges when moving back?
MadMorf@reddit
Fill a small container with water, and put it in the freezer. Once it’s frozen solid, place a coin on top of the ice.
If your power goes out long enough for the ice to melt and allow the coin to sink into the ice before re-freezing, your formerly frozen food is suspect and should be discarded.
Lulu_Stardust@reddit
The more you know. Thanks for sharing the info.
Terrible-Plankton-64@reddit
So much of what you’re saying is relative. The experience you described was unique to you. I spent a lot of time on both sides of Patagonia, and there were plenty of people I met, whose homes I entered that had the luxury items you said were typical in France. Poverty and rural conditions can be found anywhere, and that is where you’ll see a lack of modernity and thus a more of a need for community. I have family that use well water in the countryside of Normandy. I don’t know where you lived in France, but there’s pretty big differences in the regional dispositions. Further north is going to be colder people, and I would include Paris in that. When you’re along the southern coast, people are way friendlier. As a Latina, you might have felt more at home in a place like Menton, which is practically Italy. Small towns… if you make an effort, speak the language, you’ll find kindness and friendship.
The side of my family that isn’t French is Colombian. Colombians are known to be extremely warm and friendly, even more so along the coasts where I used to live… I could easily compare my time in multiple cities throughout Colombia to the multiple cities I spent in Chile (Santiago and further south) and draw the conclusion that Chileans lacked warmth. But if I looked at Chileans in comparison to my time with Argentine people, I’d easily say Chileans were more friendly.
Particular-Pangolin7@reddit
I also come from South America and live in France.
Where I come from, we had immense problems with slavery until 1888 (and its lasting consequences afterward), and we still have enormous social inequality.
In Brazil, as in Chile, the issue of food type is a matter of varying luxuries.
In the mornings, I used to eat boiled bananas, fresh papaya, aloe vera in my smoothie... different kinds of fresh green beans that I bought at the market, and coconut water every day.
However, here in France I find fewer pesticides than there, and more “refined” products, obviously, wines, cheeses, and so on.
In Brazil, we have two countries within one.
I came from a white middle-class family, so in the 90's, we had two nannies for me and my siblings on duty and a housekeeper (all of them Black).
One of my classmates had six full-time domestic workers at his house.
Today, my family, like many in the middle class, no longer has this “luxury.”
But that classmate of mine (who comes from a wealthier, business-oriented family, but nothing stupidly rich!) still has their 6 domestic workers.
I never had problems accessing electricity or household appliances.
I always lived in gated communities, went to private schools. Social bubbles.
I also lived in medium-sized cities (around 300,000 inhabitants), so violence was not a problem, unlike what we know happens in Brazil’s megacities.
So, coming to France, the biggest difference I noticed in terms of luxury is the historical and cultural heritage the museums, the works of art, and the savoir-faire found here.
GarageIndependent114@reddit
Not true, the real luxury is to be rich enough to have a functioning house in South America
peteuse@reddit
I live in France and Switzerland, there are plenty of affordable fruits and vegetables and nobody would consider them luxuries. Not sure what you're on about, or just trying to romanticize nostalgically where you come from. I even buy some local 'bio' stuff here and it's not that much more than conventional.
Terrible_Mortgage541@reddit
I'm not sure if I can relate to this completely. The canned thing was perhaps very true in 1960's where it was a symbol of prestige. Not in modern Denmark. Might be the case in other parts of Europe. We are quite diverse. I find whenever I visit another EU county it's always fascinating to visit it's supermarkets. In Denmark it's going towards the norm to eat according to season and locally. That means no avocado or the other lovely fruits. But beets, potatoes, onions and lots of kale. I'm personally quite fond of this.
DeHarigeTuinkabouter@reddit
When they said canned was a luxury they were talking about South America.
cowbutt6@reddit
I started my most recent search for a place to emigrate to from the UK about a decade ago. I thought I'd found a good option in Ireland and took some concrete steps towards moving. However, along the way, I learnt some trade-offs that made remaining in the UK more appealing more me, in spite of its many flaws:
tinytempo@reddit
I guess the main takeaway is: ‘We always want what we can’t have’
therealsacagawea@reddit
You’ve summed up so well what I was never able to convey about living and feeling forever torn between two countries and seemingly two worlds.
Vercoduex@reddit
The problem is you went to France.
MarcoEsteban@reddit
My parents were young and got mqrried during the time when frozen, canned, and instant fr
LearyBlaine@reddit
Just keep in mind that, while the obvious switch was between South American and Europe, the slightly more subtle switch was from a rural to a more urban environment. You might have found a very similar phenomenon if you had moved for 10 years to an urban center in your own country.
This distinction doesn’t affect your overall conclusion/observation/question about what constitutes luxury. But just understand that the main driver could very well be more about urban vs rural, instead of Europe vs. South America.
anjaliv@reddit
Warmth of people? Please divulge ool
OverCategory6046@reddit
Contrary to popular belief, the French actually are quite nice (Parisians being the exception, but they're not as bad as Reddit portrays)
It's just a different culture, politeness is much more important and they're generally not treating strangers like a best friend within minutes like an American or Brit might
LaoBa@reddit
Have you ever been to the UK?
ponpiriri@reddit
Brits are warmer than French by a long mile.
OverCategory6046@reddit
I live there now so I'd say so
Goanawz@reddit
I lived in 4 different French regions, I thought that Parisians are the nicest of the bunch. The province/ Parisian whining stuff is tiresome.
OverCategory6046@reddit
I find the Parisians to be much quicker to warm to a stranger than they do in out of Paris, but there's a very good sense of community in smaller villages that I don't find in the UK (except in Yorkshire)
The Parisian and province whining stuff is incredibly tiresome though, 100% - same in the UK, everyone complains about London all the time (well, not all the time, but enough)
Goanawz@reddit
Sure, but getting integrated in a small village goes from hard to impossible, and it's much worse if you're part of a minority. I grew up in a village and I sure don't miss the judgemental and racist people.
mom2twins09@reddit
I experienced loads of judgemental and racist people in my 3.5 years of living in France. We are moving from there back to Scotland, where we always have felt welcomed and accepted. We are in Poland now to get a break from France before our move and the treatment we are facing here has been night and day.
Singularity-42@reddit
Poland is less racist than France? Surprising, but good to hear!
Goanawz@reddit
Sorry it happened to you
WhichWitchyWay@reddit
Thanks for letting me know about the coin trick! - an American living with an unstable power grid
EatingCoooolo@reddit
Living in the UK I can still taste the difference in meat and chicken when I go to Namibia
Mistletoe2@reddit
Where the fuck do you live stable power and hot water is easy to get in South America, real luxury is not having to deal with France unmannered taxi drivers tbh
Odd_Dot3896@reddit
Ok and I moved from North America to Europe & i genuinely thought people here live like it’s 1995.
cosmicchitony@reddit
This is a good articulated reflection on how our environment shapes our entire perception of value and comfort. You've perfectly captured the universal truth that every home offers a different, irreplaceable set of riches and frustrations.
sarongmusic@reddit
While I get your point, France has an infinite range of delicious local products that are not considered luxury.
Nyaroou@reddit
Where are you living that you get power cuts ? In Brazil the only thing we don’t have is good public transport and super safe-ish big towns (1M+), is that the case of France though?
Ofc unless you are making minimum wage living in the favelas then it’s definitely like that
More-Dragonfly695@reddit
One thing is you have to get over yourself and stop missing material things so much.
On the other hand, healthy natural food is an absolute necessity and it's missing in developed countries.
Simple_Assistance_77@reddit
Why did you move to Europe?
Miserable_Invite1675@reddit
Wherever you go, there you are
randomthings253@reddit
As a Venezuelan who moved to Argentina and was living in various parts of this country and in two weeks will go to live in France, I was able to completely connect with your post!
Despite being the same continent, there are a million things that I miss about my native country, however, having lived in various places in Argentina made me value its luxuries that for me were not in my country.
In short, I know that in France I will miss a million things about Argentina and I will find new luxuries that I had here and I did not value them enough, however I understood that there is no perfect place and in view of that, I prefer to stay with the positive of each place knowing that I can always return to the places where I consider home even if that means giving up the new "silly" luxuries that I will have in Europe🥹❤️
Pecncorn1@reddit
It went the other way for me. I've live in the developing world for the last three decades. I was back home to take care of some business recently for a month and stayed with an old friend. I was astonished at what they spent their money on and my brain exploded when we went to walmart to buy a gift for his sons birthday. I had no idea it was possible to fill so many isles with useless garbage.
I won't even start on the food. There is no going back for me.
Relative_External788@reddit
Sooooo deep & insightful
OpalSeason@reddit
Great post and food for thought. Bang on!
RelevanceReverence@reddit
Fascinating observations, thanks for sharing.
FoggyPeaks@reddit
Really well put
Hefty_Key_381@reddit
At least within Europe, the good food countries (mostly in Southern Europe) always have worse economies and job prospects than the North and vice versa. You can never have everything in life, the European curse :/
But France is a sort of okay balance I guess, no?
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
France isn't bad when talking about food.
But when you grew up "poor" in South America, eating directly from the trees, fishing, farm eggs, chicken and meat..
That are "luxuries" in the rest of the world.
LadySwire@reddit
We have trees, cows and chicken in Southern Europe, man. If you wanted trains that run late you just had to go to Barcelona.
Live-Car164@reddit
I feel you are comparing living in a city in Europe to living in countryside in South America.
You can do those things in France. You can raise chicken, go fishing in the river, grow some trees, if you live in countryside.
LynnSeattle@reddit
This lifestyle is a luxury in urban environments. I’d guess it’s not for people living in rural France.
mjratchada@reddit
No they are not luxuries in the rest of the world.
Hefty_Key_381@reddit
Right but in a lot of the Mediterranean countries, I think that people do have this culture…? Maybe not to the same extent. But I could think of a lot of local renowned foods, like meat in Spain or cheese in Italy for example.
Stuff like this not as present in the North for example.
But I never lived in Latin America so I suppose I can’t say anything with certainty in the comparison.
TheoKolokotronis@reddit
Processed and canned food isn’t luxury in Europe.
NoDepartment8@reddit
But apparently reading comprehension is.
LadySwire@reddit
Fresh vegetables aren't a luxury either compared to the US, not in France that has plenty of rural areas, cows and farms. As a Basque I'm almost certain whoever OP writes from the US
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
Trade offs is exactly how I put it to everyone. There are no pros and cons, simply trade offs.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
That is the whole point of my post.
No country is perfect, but one can choose their own perfection.
hellolovely1@reddit
They have farmers markets all over Paris and other cities with the “luxury items” you cite for much cheaper than here.
Were you in the middle of nowhere in France?
LadySwire@reddit
Paris, Texas, most likely. In the middle of nowhere in France have vegetables and fresh milk
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I lived in a paradise in the South of France.
I loved it, but this "luxury items", mangos, avocados, etc were just for special occasions.
In South America I can eat them to my heart's content.
Team503@reddit
To be clear, that's probably not a "luxury" thing in the sense you're thinking. It's probably based on the fact that France doesn't have a tropical climate in which to grow tropical fruits, so they have to be imported from places that DO have that climate. That makes them more expensive.
Only_Razzmatazz_4498@reddit
I think the problem is that in the ‘rich’ world people have gotten used to having access to global products and those have to be compromised in order to be shipped across the oceans. If you stick to local produce then you won’t have avocados but instead amazing inexpensive cheeses (I am not familiar with France so just guessing). Things that in Chile wouldn’t be as good or inexpensive. In the US it might be iPhones instead of things you can eat.
hellolovely1@reddit
I mean, France has a LOT of fruits and vegetables but you’re right—I don’t think they sell stuff out of season like we do in the US (at least not to the same degree).
Goanawz@reddit
And that's a good thing.
hellolovely1@reddit
I agree!
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
That's why every place has its advantages and disadvantages. I don't like luxuries; I use my clothes and technology for years until they're completely worn out.
I like to eat well, I love fresh food, it's what I enjoy every day, that's why I returned to where I'm happy, accepting both the good and the bad that exists.
0urobrs@reddit
So the luxury items are not necessarily 'fresh foods', but rather 'imported fresh foods'? France has a lot of nice high quality produce itself, it's the upside of their agricultural protectionism.
LadySwire@reddit
I don't know where in France you've been, but that sounds very unMediterranean
Visible-Composer-942@reddit
So you're saying the western world is trash. I agree lol
Significant-Yam9843@reddit
What's so 'western' about France that you think she can't have in South America?
Stoa1984@reddit
You didn't eat that food in south america because you were poor. You ate it because that is what is easily available to grow in that country.
In Europe I feasted on berries as a child that grew in my granny's garden and forest. Here they cost $5 for a small container ( no forests in my area where they grow).
In South Africa we feasted on avocado's and mangoes, that again, here you pay for a lot more, because it is imported.
A lot of it has to do with what is locally growing in abundance.
I also don't think we always need to go to the lowest possibility when complaining or being down about something. Because then, you could always just head to the starving kid in Africa, and say that you don't have it that bad, so you're in luxury with your roach infested apartment, because at least you have a roof over your head and some food.
And you're totally right that there are trade offs, and no perfect place. Well there are plenty of perfect places if one has a lot of money.
HolidayWhobeWhatee@reddit
As someone whose grown up in California my entire life, I see things all of the time that make me so grateful that I can live where I live. I've always been upper low class in terms of money but I've always felt so happy to have a warm bed, a decent water heater, a roof over my head and conditioned air. Those four things bring such joy to my heart, I wouldn't be the same without any one of those missing. I know there are many other things I take for granted but I know I'm lucky to have what I have and I appreciate you sharing your experience because it makes me appreciate what I have even more so.
Alchemista101@reddit
California is a sweet spot for sure. Also fresh healthy food.
HolidayWhobeWhatee@reddit
Absolutely! Our Mexican is truly amazing and the diversity of people where I live means we have really good other kinds of food as well (As far as I can tell, I haven't lived outside of here but our multicultural food generally tastes very good).
cs_legend_93@reddit
Truth
OwnIntroduction5193@reddit
Beautiful!
yepitskate@reddit
I totally relate. As an American in Mexico, there are tradeoffs but I love it here in Mexico
Swordfish353535@reddit
im living in mexico now, are you saying we can get cheaper healthier meats and stuff here? i find most stuff from farms expensive (in quintana roo) vs chedraui, soriana etc
IAmRules@reddit
Come to south Brazil and get both.
But yea. Lobster use to be poor people food. And polenta is considered a delicacy in some places and here we give it to dogs when they run out of food.
Hour-Resolution-806@reddit
One of the famous TV chiefs was visiting fishermen in a poor country that lived for a few dollars a day. He ate fresh fish and vegetables with them everyday. He said they ate better than his rich friends is europe and usa...
ReplacementNearby379@reddit
Just wait until you go to USA. France is living jn the dark ages compared to American luxury
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Where or what do you consider American luxury? For me European luxury is Monaco, and to a smaller scale, Munich or Marbella. I just realized most upscale European places start with "M".
PirateDocBrown@reddit
Visit Minneapolis
ReplacementNearby379@reddit
Yes American cities are dogshit. But individuals have much nicer stuff. Go to the ghetto. Each house has a washer, dryer, microwave, flat screen tv, iPhone, air conditioner and high speed internet. Not even the upper middle class in Europe have thag.
domsolanke@reddit
Europe is not one country lol, there’s a vast different between Denmark and Portugal when it comes to things like this. If you don’t think the upper middle class in Scandinavia have basic amenities like these, you’re clearly haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.
PirateDocBrown@reddit
Uh, Minneapolis is a very beautiful city, with a high standard of living and above average incomes. It fits right into that list.
Singularity-42@reddit
Complete BS. The only thing that is not common in Europe is the dryer. Also garbage disposal. And AC in colder countries. But the thing I miss the most is the ease of driving and parking in the US. This is for obvious reasons though.
But right now I'm in Southern Spain and AC is everywhere, often central AC. In colder countries you just don't need it. All that you listed is ubiquitous pretty much across the EU, definitely western EU.
What country are you talking about?
ReplacementNearby379@reddit
I mean normal life. I lived in Munich for two years from 2017-2019. It was like the stone ages compared to USA. The fastest internet I could get was 12mbs lololol
My university had equipment that I used in middle school and I was 28 at the time.
ContributionSad4461@reddit
Germany is notoriously behind in such matters, you don’t need a lot of speed for fax machines.
Singularity-42@reddit
Internet is literally faster across Europe. Tons of fiber even in rural areas. Much cheaper than US. This is the one area where US is clearly behind.
There’s other things common in America that I miss, but not too big of a deal: electric dryers, garbage disposals, wider roads and ease of driving, avalibility and ease of parking. The car related are mostly due to much higher density and also very old cities.
Live-Car164@reddit
Thanks for the laugh. You americans are so brainwashed that you don’t even realised how ridiculous you are.
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I have been there many times, I couldn't live there.
Still, US is in the dark ages next to Japan.
Beautiful-Sign2024@reddit
The food, the energy, the vibe, the warmth of the people. Exactly 💛
Rocky_Bukkake@reddit
well said, and i agree. i’m in china, and right now there is this odd bombardment of each side desperately trying to prove itself. many fall to the side of china being “the best” because it has trains and is safe and all that jazz, and the US being “the worst” because ICE and whatever. i don’t deny either of these, but they tend to ignore a LOT about each place. these ignored elements fill in the gaps to reveal that each place has its own greatness and its own lack. can i say one is better or worse? it depends on what you want.
Classic_1984@reddit
Well, my first experience in Chile's neighbouring country, Peru, was somewhat different on my first visit: at that time, it was considered chic to give American tinned fruit such as peaches from Libby's as a gift. The good fruit and vegetables from local production were exported. The upper class drank Nescafe after dinner in 5-star restaurants. Fortunately, all that has changed radically. Now Peru is so into high-quality vegetables, local coffee etc. Ideas of luxury are subject to change. This is easy to understand when you consider that white bread was the food of the nobility, while the common people ate grains or fish, but never chicken. How these then became staple foods, while good fish is now actually beyond the means of many, was on display in a nice exhibit in Barcelona a few years ago. It‘s fascinating to challenge your notion about what is special, rare or luxury. And to appreciate our wonderfully diverse world and world views that offer so many different experiences 🤗
djSush@reddit
Thank you for sharing this! Haven't seen this perspective before, and I really appreciate it.
Serendipity_SP@reddit
Omg you are reading my mind and experiences. I moved to US from South Asia and I have had very similar experience and perspective shift. Thank you for writing this - it makes me less alone for observing these!
bachyboy@reddit
Wherever you go, there you are.
mamadematthias@reddit
Love your post. Thanks for sharing.
Newagehippiee@reddit
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Ronaron99@reddit
In 90s and 2000s Central and Eastern Europe, eating at McDonald's or Burger King was also considered a luxurious activity and kids would have bragged about their parents bringing them to these shitty junk food restaurants in school. Not anymore, but still, interesting phenomenon, and somewhat similar to yours.
Daidrion@reddit
And nowadays MC raised the prices so much, that with stagnant salaries, increased rents and taxes it might as well be soon luxury in the western Europe, lol.
Exciting_Royal_8099@reddit
You don't want what you don't know. Ignorance is bliss, and the secret to happiness is low expectations. There's probably hundreds of these sayings.
Where where you happiest? Or is it too soon to tell?
When I started to travel around the world I was taken by how happy it seemed that folks were in places I had been taught were very poor. Outwardly far more happy and friendly than my own culture. They struggled for sure, far more than I did, but they also managed to find a level of joy that I rarely see at home. It opened my eyes a bit.
Manchild1189@reddit
So distracted by the fact that this is AI slop that I forgot about the valid point OP bot was making.
gasschw@reddit
You have no idea how much I relate to this
EquivalentCategory78@reddit
As the Brazilian poet Charlie Brown Jr would say, every choice is a renounce. But seriously, I think normal food in France or in Belgium (places I have lived in Europe) are the luxury thing in Brasil (where I'm from). Like cheese, wine, beer and the overall quality of the ingredients
smallchainringmasher@reddit
OP, all those things are available in France, maybe you did not look hard enough. There is plenty of "peasant" food in france,mostly centered in baguettes that nowadays folks consider haute couture for food. It's all about perspective...back at "home" the things in france you took for granted were not readily present and vv for France.
Training-Rip6463@reddit
Which AI did you use to write this? 😂
space_iio@reddit
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is AI written
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I used Gemini, to translate from Spanish to English.
crazycholesterol@reddit
Are you from Paraguay?
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
From the country side in Chilean Patagonia
RydiaOM@reddit
I was born and raised in Argentina, in a very humble environment. While finishing college I moved for a short period abroad with my the girlfriend (Swiss) and it was absolutely eye opening. I was absolutely unable to process their way of living compared to my country, things such as Honesty Boxes, recycling on a weekend and even having respectful neighbours in an apartment building were things so foreign to me. People's complains went from "Will I eat today?" To "What will I eat today?"
Just-Practice1002@reddit
I feel you.
I come a good middle-upper class family in south east Asia. I realised the importance of difference In Luxuries literally the day I landed. My 42m square apartment in Europe is literally the size of my bathroom back home.. having to struggle to understand a public transport which I never used in my own country was a struggle and still is. These differences in culture, luxuries, lifestyle transforms what you can do and makes you understand what you really want in life.
waudmasterwaudi@reddit
I know from my south american wife that mangos grown in the park of the town or growing next to the street are really great. The same goes for avocados. But the people are afraid of fruits and veggies from the supermarket - because the use of agrotoxicals is insane.....
LynnSeattle@reddit
I won’t eat berries growing by the roadside in my city due to the exposure to car exhaust.
waudmasterwaudi@reddit
In Brasil Most Cars use ethanol. It burns very clean.
Trick_Estimate_7029@reddit
In Spain it has been like this until recently. I still remember in a Reddit forum that people from the USA told me how posh it is to go buy bread every day, here everyone goes to buy bread and it is something absolutely normal, cheap and that any poor person can afford. But it's starting to happen with things like traditional dishes made with criadillas, brains, tripe... These are dishes that require a lot of labor but were made with the cheapest parts of the animals because the fillet or chop was bought by those who could afford it. Now that labor is expensive, they have become more luxurious dishes.
waudmasterwaudi@reddit
I think the same not even outside of Europe. In the south of Europe people eat more fresh cooked food. Independent if it is with fruits or vegetables. In anyway it from a take way or home made. This is in contrast to countries like germany were people work all day and later at home eat pizza from the freezer and get sick and fat at one point.
LynnSeattle@reddit
This is likely related to the much lower female employment rates in southern Europe when compared to the north.
waubers@reddit
Goods don’t define luxury, how you’re able to spend or save time defines luxury.
globalphilosopher3@reddit
“Massive, unavoidable trade offs” very true of many things in life
bornagy@reddit
Fresh milk and fish are luxuries in france?
LynnSeattle@reddit
No!
2beefree1day@reddit
I love this post 🥰
icefrogs1@reddit
Sorry but not everyone is dirt poor like you in latam, there are hundreds of thousands in any latam country that have access to smart fridges and shit like that, dumb post.
Wise-Ad-6391@reddit
Visit rural France. No teeth, power cuts, and outhouses are common.
GMVexst@reddit
Yeah community is the most important luxury, can't really find it anymore in the West.
The funny thing is, most expats don't even realize that's what they are craving and why they leave.
Shannon556@reddit
Beautiful essay.
Lao_gong@reddit
why did you move back?
lovepeacefakepiano@reddit
I’ve always found that French people are very proud of their local fresh produce. It’s surely a lot more expensive than the supermarket stuff. Whereabouts in France did you live? Maybe that has something to do with it.
tipaconda@reddit
I spent a year in Brasil as an exchange student. It never left me - it taught me how to be a caring and affectionate parent. It taught me a beautiful language and life rhythm that I tried to emulate in my home country (US) but it fell short in so many ways. I’m back now in South America. Short of occasional family visits, I don’t think I’ll ever leave again. I get what you’re saying.
Jone469@reddit
I'm from Chile and here everything that you described is standard for anyone who's middle class
joan2468@reddit
This is very well put. I moved to the UK from Malaysia and when I’m here there are some things I miss about Malaysia, and vice versa, but no country is perfect and anyone who thinks so has simply never experienced life abroad before. The tragic thing about having moved around though is that you will always feel you left a piece of you behind in the other place.
lalanaca@reddit
What country did you move back to in South America?
Break_jump@reddit
Beautifully written
Over_Lor@reddit
Can someone explain this coin trick to me, please? Thank you!
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
Yes, you put a coin on a ice cube, if the fridge thaws for a long time and then refreezes; the coin won't be there, it will be at the bottom of the ice.
Very useful for knowing if the food is still safe.
Over_Lor@reddit
Ohhhh! That is clever. Thank you!
NoDepartment8@reddit
It’s literally what OP said - put a container with a several inches (1 in = 2.54 cm) of water in your freezer. When it’s frozen solid put a coin on the top of the ice block. If you open your freezer and the coin is no longer on top of the ice your freezer has thawed at some point and your food may not be safe. I like using a clear plastic container with a lid so you can see the status of the coin without opening it, nor worry about it tipping and melting out on your food.
mom2twins09@reddit
I used to live in Medellin and then lived in France for 3.5 years, among other countries. The expats in France were always baffled when I said I missed Medellin and Mexico because of exactly these things "the food, the energy. The vibe, the warmth of people." It was everything that France was missing. I found France to be cold and unwelcoming. My kids were bullied in school, the food made me sick, the vegan products are not high quality, and the medical care was subpar. We had better everything in Medellin and it baffled people that a "poor country in South America" was better than France. I "must have been delusional and have no class to think that".
Remarkable_Deer_584@reddit
I could understand you. I live in Austria 🇦🇹 and when I go to Africa 🇹🇿visited my Husband Family… 2 weeks is enough there. Beautiful place but long time not for European people…👌🤗
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
When my Austrian ex visited my family, she had a sensory overload and couldn't ate anything for few days, too many flavours...
Also it was pretty fun when my mom gave her a full artichoke, we started eating and she keep looking at it, for us was something normal, she never saw one before.
raicorreia@reddit
Honestly you shocked me with your post, because I am from Brazil and in my head Chile is a developed place compared to here, and I know I am a privileged person but I never lived through anything you described as south american reality, and my childhood was in the countryside mostly
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
Chile has changed a lot, many things have changed and are much more stable since I left so many years ago, for better and for worse.
Now I've moved to Belo Horizonte, looking for a farm to live on in peace.
raicorreia@reddit
I assume by your story that you were probably talking about 10+ years ago, so before 2014, but maybe you meant before that. And welcome, BH and surrounding area is really nice
CoffeeMan392@reddit (OP)
I left Chile on 2012
New_Holland@reddit
What a beautiful reflection! Thank you!
palbuddy1234@reddit
I'm in Switzerland. Lots of wealth here, generational wealth. That's the trade-off as if you have wealth, you don't need to be a happy, warm person. Though I'd love a good belly laugh with a great party with good food and cheer..... That won't result in the police called on us. why? The neighbors said we were too loud. Sigh.
CountryRoads2020@reddit
I am so grateful for your perspective; thank you for sharing.
FormicaDinette33@reddit
That is an awesome post awesome 👏. Food for thought, so to speak…
Nouseriously@reddit
I live in an uncrowded heated & air conditioned home with clean running water. I have good good & medical care. By the standards of my ancestors & of a lot of people currently alive, I live in luxury. Pretending otherwise is ingratitude.
Medical-Ad-2706@reddit
South America with a lot more money is Waaaaay better than France with the same amount of
diivintothesea@reddit
Definitely
Wanderinghome1111@reddit
I love the way you summed up the expat paradox. Well done.
Ok_Blacksmith6985@reddit
Nice perspective, thanks for sharing
Zestyclose-Rich-3669@reddit
Great perspective, thanks for sharing!
Realistic-Try9555@reddit
There is no solution, only tradeoffs.
Ex-PFC_WintergreenV4@reddit
Today I learned the coin trick, thank you!
HVP2019@reddit
Being poor in poor country means that your choices of fresh foods are limited to a season or to a location. In my area poor people in a winter eat wrinkled potatoes and fermented cabbage, and few other similar vegetables that could be stored for a long time.
Safety practices when it comes to storing, handling meat were just a suggestions. So occasional food related issues from improperly handled meat is not uncommon but that is just part of those trade offs.
But middle class and upper class in poor countries can live quite well. They can enjoy cheap local food and supplement things that are unavailable with imports.
Geoarbitrage@reddit
Insightful post!
getdafkout666@reddit
What’s funny about having a South American girlfriend and going there a lot is that after living in Philly for 10 years the whole thing felt very familiar to me. Roads can be busted beyond use. Stoplights don’t work sometimes, houses are barely held up by DIY measures and gunfire can just erupt at any time (much more of a problem where I’m from. She’s from a relatively safe country), stuff you need can be out of stock for long periods of time. Those things can describe either a Latin American or U.S. city. Theres also a lot to love about it like fresh fruit, kickass beaches and Cuban cigars.
not_ok_username@reddit
To get 100% stable power and hot water get solar panels and some big battery like ecoflow or bluetti, problem solved
Prince_Gustav@reddit
That's the best post I saw in Reddit for a long time. You really echoed my feelings.
Thariax1982@reddit
Beautifully written, full circle kind of story. As an African in Europe I recognised every bit of this. I wish you much joy and happiness back in the Southern Hemisphere.
ErikaWeb@reddit
Very well said!! If you have a good income and can live in a safe place in South America, it’s the paradise!
expats-ModTeam@reddit
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neurowhiz123@reddit
Very well summarised and put forward , as someone from Asia in a same boat , I can relate to lot of points at the same time thankful to have been able to see both perspectives and also realising why sometimes they say “ignorance is bliss”
Good luck to you in the new journey ahead
Ladline69@reddit
Ok