Looking for some advice on Sweden vs Italy

Posted by gswdh@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 15 comments

I grew up in a mid sized city in the UK, moved to London for 8 years then Lisbon for 3 and have been in Berlin for the pasd 2 years. I'm a software engineering and have been doing mainly freelancing work but was employed in Germany due to visa reasons.

I'm now running my own successful company which is able to pay me a decent salary easily. I don't want to live in Berlin / Germany anymore as I'm looking to purchase a large amount of land and live semi off grid / independant. This is really where I feel I'm meant to be and was similar to how I grew up. I've only been living in cities due to work; although I have enjoyed them at times I really don't like the busyness and I have living in an apartment.

I would be able to buy a place in the norht of Sweden or the north of Italy for cash which is one of the motivations - to eliminate mortgage / rent.

The way I see it:

Italy:
- Very central Europe and easy to get almost anywhere / close to Switzerland etc.
- I love the culture / land there. I want to be in the mountains.
- Perhaps a low standard of living and issues with bureaucracy in rebuilding the house.

Sweden
- Absolutely stunning envrionment.
- Large amounts of forest are easy to get with a house and perhaps cheaper than Italy.
- High standard of living / infrastructure.
- Very remote and isolated, perhaps too much.
- Difficult language to learn for me.

I'm curious what peoples opinions are on these ideas. I'm in no rush to move and really just exploring options at the moment. Ideally this would be my last country-move in my life!

Thank you!

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No_Bumblebee_5250@reddit

You will have problems with getting a visa/residency permit for Sweden. I'm guessing you're looking at the self employment visa, but there's a problem with that: to be eligible you need to have a Swedish customer base/network. It isn't enough to run a company, it has to be targeted towards Swedish customers.

You can always buy a property in Sweden, but it won't grant you residency. Or are you a citizen or do you have a partner that is a Swedish citizen? That would make your dream possible.

Pristine_Habit_3074@reddit

But EU citizens can come live in Sweden, right? 🇸🇪

Yes, and they have 3 months before they need to register with the authorities. After 3 months a jov/studies is needed to keep the right to stay.

How does it work if I bring a plus one, but this person doesn’t work, but I can prove I can take care of them with my business?

You need to show proof that when rent is paid, you have at least 10 061 SEK/month for the upkeep of you both. This is assuming that your plus one is an EU-citizen. If not, it's going to be more difficult.

Sounds fair.

I don’t understand. Is he not German? Which would mean a EU citizen. He cannot move to Sweden? 🇸🇪

Ill-Supermarket-2706@reddit

In Sweden you pay more tax and get more support if you need. In Italy you still pay more tax (especially on land) but the support is laughable also if you don’t have EU residency be prepared to face a lot of paperwork. Unless you are a millionaire then all you’re expected to pay is €200K on all your assets and income streams

Educational_Creme376@reddit

Latvia is a place that stands out for me. They’re very in touch with their pagan origins still and I think offgrid living is very much accepted there, still.

They also have a lot of people with old world knowledge, old timers, who still know how to build in the way they used to.

It’s also one of the main countries in Europe that exports logs, the Baltic’s are one big forest, it’s not over populated, living is still fairly cheap, and if you have a business taxes are not so so high, culture is quite warm.

EllaLazar@reddit

I would say unless your super introvert, go Italy, mostly cause of this https://www.worldatlas.com/places/10-loneliest-nations-in-the-world.html

rintzscar@reddit

Those options make no sense. You should be looking at Bulgaria and Romania.

gswdh@reddit (OP)

Thank you but it would be useful if you gave any kind of rough idea why!

Roger-Dodger33@reddit

I agree with him and add Serbia too, very cheap land, low tax, perfect for what you want to do

Why pay 40% taxes in Italy and Sweden when you can pay a flat 10% personal income tax and flat 10% corporate tax in Bulgaria? Not to mention that essentially everything is 3 times cheaper than Sweden and 2 times cheaper than Italy.

Also,what you're trying to do - buy a lot of land, a house and live peacefully - it's far cheaper to do it in Southeast Europe. There are entire villages of expats in Bulgaria and Romania which did the exact same.

You should look into them. Croatia also works, though the taxes aren't as favorable.

sneeky_seer@reddit

They are very very different countries, with very very different lifestyles. Consider the weather in northern Italy vs northern Sweden. Then factor in basic cost of living and compare the “power” of your salary in both countries. Italy has everything from mountains to beaches, where Sweden has less of a variety and what it does offer has more limitations due to weather.

Given you come from the UK, weather might not be that big of a factor but long cold winters can get old fast.

Italy is bureaucratic for sure. You also mentioned language - you are far more likely to get by with English in Sweden before you learn the language than in Italy. In Italy you are also more likely to pay the “expat tax” - this is something pretty typical in Eastern Europe but can be true in Italy too. You won’t know how to navigate the system but also people will try to make money on you because they see you as a wealthy foreigner.

I’d also consider where countries are heading, what you can afford right now without overstretching yourself financially.

If you settle on Italy, chances are you would be able to afford to have a second home elsewhere or travel extensively or relocate elsewhere later on. Sweden might tie you down way more financially.