What are some things that can be done on other IDEs but not on IDLE?
Posted by PutPsychological9682@reddit | Python | View on Reddit | 54 comments
A while back I was taking a higher level python class, and my professor said that even though the beginners class required us to use IDLE, she wants us to use Wing Personal because more advanced topics which she will cover can not be implemented on IDLE.
sudonem@reddit
Wing IDE is a pretty wild choice for a class and tells me you should be questioning all of this professors suggestions because they are likely a bit out of touch with the reality.
Everyone in the class would be better served by using an industry standard of PyCharm or Visual Studio Code.
BrokenRibosome@reddit
Yeah, some professors are really out of touch. I had one that said git was for idiots, and that the only version control you should use is version_1, version_2, .... He also said not to use IDE, that you should only use vim/emacs without syntax highlighting
fiddle_n@reddit
That version control suggestion is WILD. Maybe it has a sliver of viability if you are a student strictly coding single module projects. But as soon as you want to create a multi-file project with imports, or you have a project that a team of people work on - a proper version control system is a non-negotiable.
alcalde@reddit
It's... really not necessary... more like a luxury... you know, in the good old days, we all developed very large prograrms with many, many files and version control didn't even exist! Or Stack Overflow!
fiddle_n@reddit
Using a knife in a kitchen or a hammer in a construction project may also be seen as a luxury too. After all, our ancestors were able to handle both these things by merely picking up a rock, and they survived!
alcalde@reddit
We did more than survive; we ushered in the Internet age.
fiddle_n@reddit
So did the caveman, ultimately. The point is, much like a chef’s knife is a minimum requirement for a kitchen instead of a rock, so too is VCS.
alcalde@reddit
No. No it's not. We weren't banking rocks when we were coding software pre-VCS. IDEs, VCS... they're not *necessities*. People explored the whole globe before GPS, too, just so you know.
If you can accomplish your goal without something, it's not a necessity. That doesn't mean it's not useful.
fiddle_n@reddit
Whether it’s a chef’s knife or a GPS device or a VCS - these things are SO useful that they have become essentially mandatory. To not use them in the present day is to be incompetent in the activity you are taking part in. I thought I had made that clear with the chef’s knife argument (which you conveniently sidestepped) but apparently not.
the-nick-of-time@reddit
When I was a newbie and working on a single-file project, I accidentally deleted part of it and didn't notice until it was too late to undo. Version control has saved me from this fate.
trenixjetix@reddit
WITHOUT Syntax Highlighying?! WHY?!
Does he hate his eyes?
temp1211241@reddit
You won't have it in some embedded and remote environments.
trenixjetix@reddit
its not even installed by default in my machine
VonRoderik@reddit
I just started learning coding for the first time. Halfway through CS50p, but for me syntax highlights actually help me learn more. It's easier to see and understand what I'm doing.
Why would anyone dislike it?
trenixjetix@reddit
Some people are very weird and like to gatekeep (in very strange ways).
Also, if you ever done work in a company you would know the teacher is VERY out of touch with reality.
HolidayEmphasis4345@reddit
It is not just work at a company where version control makes sense. When I write code I have a new feature, I create a branch do the feature and commit/merge. It takes seconds to do this and I have a complete history. Often times I do this 5 times in a day. It is so nice seeing the history and being able to go back and see how things evolved. Vscode and pycharm work very well with git. Learn basic git you won’t regret it.
temp1211241@reddit
When you'e learning there's a good argument for why you might want text editor without syntax highlighting. It's mostly related to not giving you autocompletion or heuristic shortcuts forcing you to process better. There are also contexts where you might have to do this when trouble shooting production code.
There's no legit argument for no-version control. Lawyer/design VC is not a sustainable, advisable, or respectable practice and learning how to use version control is a core job skill.
dnszero@reddit
Talk about out of touch! Recommending vim or emacs as if emacs was perfectly valid… SMH
yopla@reddit
The only valid answer is Emacs with evil mode in tmux.
sudonem@reddit
I mean… I use nvim almost exclusively for writing python - but i’m a sysadmin, not a developer though so I spend a lot of time in vim anyway and it just makes sense.
Nvim works totally well as an IDE - it’s just a pain in the ass to setup and very much not for beginners trying to learn to code.
But to suggest using a bare text editor without even having syntax highlighting enabled? Thats bonkers. They may as well have insisted on busting out the punch cards and doing it all by hand.
alcalde@reddit
And if you're going to do that, at least do it in COBOL.
sudonem@reddit
😂
spinwizard69@reddit
Actually for a beginner a few months with an old style editor is a good idea. I really believe that a little exposure to the command line is a good thing too.
The attitude about Git is a bit strange but on the flip side some student have no idea how file systems even work. So maybe he has his reasons, all I know is too many students start CS programs with no knowledge as to how to use a computer or its operating system. This has gotten worse over the years with dumbed down computing devices.
alcalde@reddit
I'm afraid to ask if they're learning Python 3 or Python 2. Maybe Zed Shaw's teaching it. :-)
imma_go_take_a_nap@reddit
I agree that Wing has nothing that should make it anyone's first choice, it's actually a pretty nice IDE. The debugger in particular is one of the best. For a long time it was one of the few IDEs that could debug child processes, which is why I paid for the premium version for a few years.
Python-ModTeam@reddit
Hi there, from the /r/Python mods.
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ofyellow@reddit
Wing is good. Use it all the time.
KingsmanVince@reddit
Everything can be made with just plain text if you enough willpower, time, energy, and brain power.
SheriffRoscoe@reddit
I write Python in Notepad++ or vim, depending on the platform.
alcalde@reddit
Once upon a time programs were coded as octal numbers and entered into computers by flipping a series of switches.... Grace Hopper was even told that entering computer programs as text was "impossible" by one person... then she revealed she'd already done it....
Eagle_Smurf@reddit
In a world where VSCode is free, and PyCharm CE is free, using anything else to write Python is completely pointless and I reserve the right to judge you for it!
DNSGeek@reddit
I know I'm one of the few here that does, but I really like Wing and Wing Professional is my IDE of choice. I've been using it since 2005.
alcalde@reddit
So you're the one personally keeping their lights on! :-) Good for you!
Drevicar@reddit
I bet he also bought winrar.
alcalde@reddit
OK, if we're making this a thing now....
I bet he still buys Nero Burning ROM too.
trenixjetix@reddit
IDLE is kind of a really outdated program.
It's kind of the worst text-editor.
Use whatever else, even a notepad-like program.
tuneafishy@reddit
This is complete nonsense.idle has syntax coloring, an integrated repl, debugging, and more. Using idle is light years ahead of something like notepad. Just because it looks dated doesn't imply it isn't full featured for what it is
Motox2019@reddit
I agree, this is nonsense. I’ve programmed several scripts with idle and often turn to it when I want to write quicker, single file scripts over something like vscode simply due to how feature rich yet light it is. It absolutely can be customized however you please, I have mine in a full dark mode to my liking. And as you mentioned a built in repl. If the default IDLE isn’t good enough, there’s IDLEX which extends the functionality of IDLE adding things like tabbed editor, cython support, running blocks of a script, and more.
Personally I like IDLE and as a plus to python, it’s entirely built in python.
trenixjetix@reddit
How do you change the theme so my eyes don't hurt?
tuneafishy@reddit
You can manually customize to your liking, but here is something canned:
https://github.com/naschorr/neon-night-idle-theme
Honestly, if you are using idle, I would highly suggest using idlex instead. Basically the same as idle with a few important features like tabs
trenixjetix@reddit
amazing, last updated 3 years ago
Suspect4pe@reddit
For what IDLE is, it's a really cool piece of software. It has remained consistent and usable for people that want it or need it. Are there better ways to edit Python code? Sure.
I was programming back in the 80's on green screen computers in basic, typing line numbers and retyping lines that had an error. Maybe it's just easier for me to appreciate something like IDLE since I've had that background.
trenixjetix@reddit
IT BURNS MY EYES
SamuliK96@reddit
Change the team then
Empanatacion@reddit
Pycharm is free and very good
Suspect4pe@reddit
I think the question is what makes it different or what makes it stand out from IDLE. For Pycharm that's a long list.
cas4d@reddit
I have been writing python professionally for 7 years. Using IDE or anything equivalent is compulsory if you participate in a serious software development.
time: IDE is made to save your time. For example, refactoring will be somewhat a regular thing you do in developing a program. Without IDE refactoring means you may have to find and rename all the instances of a variable manually, whereas with IDE it can be done instantly. Keep in mind your speed matters in a collaborative environment.
precision: it is simply less prone to error. Any syntactic errors will be highlighted when you use an IDE. It also runs analysis on whether you supply the right value type to a variable of a function. All the smaller things add up and make your development more robust.
higher quality: mandatory PEP8 or other coding styles are integrated in IDE, which gives you warning if you violate some practice standard.
integration with other tools: such as Git. You can view the changes without leaving the IDE.
It is not about what can or cannot be done, eventually it is a tool to produce code which is just a folder of plain text. You can even code with iPad notepad.
Drevicar@reddit
Integration with git is the only thing you listed that you can’t do with IDLE. Though I still recommend VSCode or pycharm.
Drevicar@reddit
I’m willing to bet your professor gets kick backs for suggesting this IDE. Most of the industry uses Pycharm or VSCode. If you want to use AI coding then cursor is a good VSCode alternative.
alcalde@reddit
TIL Wingware is still making the Wing IDE despite the fact that no one uses it.
case_O_The_Mondays@reddit
Paste over 50 lines of text.
Neptunian_Alien@reddit
I mean, there’s nothing in python you cannot do in IDLE. But coding in it won’t be a pleasant experience. You would have a better time using VS Code or PyCharm.
Brief-Translator1370@reddit
It's okay if you're editing a single small file. Other IDEs will still outdo it, but once you start adding more then it's just plain inconvenient in comparison.
ummque@reddit
IDEs usually offer lots of integrations like code auto completion, git, pushing to containers, etc. IDLE is intended to be as simple as possible, so while it can run code, other aspects of the development process would be easier with a different IDE.