9950X3D benchmarked with Process Lasso vs Game Mode/driver
Posted by HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 195 comments
I wrote a popular post on r/AMD when the 7950X3D came out showing that the performance can be majorly improved using Process Lasso and the AMD driver implementation is not nearly as good as it could be. I have done so again with more tests on the 9950X3D.
Essentially, one can use Process Lasso to assign the "CPU Sets" of games to the cache cores and turn off Windows Game Mode to deactivate the driver optimizations.
It's not even close when testing scientifically. It's much worst then I thought. The lows especially.
Multiple trials on each game, took the average (though the results were very consistent). There were some things running in the background because that's the point, to emulate a real world experience with some processes (a static browser window, Discord, Task Manager, and a few others). Background CPU was constistently about 6%.
Used lowest graphics settings to decrease GPU bottleneck.
Results are average/minimum
Far Cry 6 with driver: 221/162
Far Cry 6 with Lasso: 255/225
Cyberpunk with driver: 194/147
Cyberpunk with Lasso: 211/167
Far Cry Primal with driver: 201/161
Far Cry Primal with Lasso: 218/178
Tiny Tina's Wonderland with Driver: 376
Tiny Tina's Wonderland with Lasso: 375
Universe Sandbox with driver: 60 year/sec Universe Sandbox with Lasso on cache cores: 62 year/sec (also way more consistent, less bouncing up and down) Universe Sandbox without any locking: 42 year/sec Universe Sandbox with Lasso on frequency cores: 75 year/sec
Caveats: Most people with this CPU will not be playing on low settings and therefore the difference won't be as stark. But there will be a difference. Only Tiny Tina's Wonderlands didn't see a difference.
And Universe Sandbox is an example of a game that benefits from being locked to the frequency CCD1. I also I know that Minecraft benefits from no optimizations at all, pretty massively, with full access to all cores, when at max rendering distance. I didn't test it this time because I'm very confident in this.
You can see the original 7950X3D post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/11mdalp/detailed_vcache_scheduler_analysis/
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Would not setting the Core preference in BIOS to Frequency CCD, have the same effect as putting the * rule in Lasso, if all other settings are set, like game mode OFF, and using Lasso to set games on the x3d CCD?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No it wouldn't because CPPC is just a "preference". When you're not in games the CPPC is automatically in frequency. But you'll see processes still use the cache cores sometimes.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Thanks for confirming. I did a lot of tests, without lasso and game mode on. Looks like everything is pushed to the x3d ccd first, and after a certain load % (for games and workloads together), it will start using the frequency ccd. But it will still be using the x3d cache for workloads, which is what we don't want.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes, with Game Mode during a game that's what happens.
The biggest issue is the fact that the frequency CCD will occasionally wake up for a second and then park again, causing issues in some games.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Do you know if lasso has % rules? For example, if CPU usage for a process is under 50%, use CCD0, and if 51% or more, use both CCDs?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No, it doesn't.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Last question! Let's say I have a process that I want it to use all 16 cores when no games are running, but only the second CCD when in-game. Anyway to do that, without changing the CPU sets everytime?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Not really, as far as I'm aware.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
I am reaching your same initial conclusions. Let everything go to the frequency CCD by default (without changing anything specific), and assign all games to the x3d CCD.
Sounds like Game mode is pretty broken.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Been thinking, is there a way to know if a game is actually using the 3d cache or not? If it is not, I could see big benefits to set it to use all 16 cores of the 9950x3d.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
All processes use cache because cache is just RAM that is quicker to access.
There are no benefits to doing this and you will destroy performance because of cross CCD latency.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
So even if the game isnot using the 3d cache heavily, it is still better to keep it under 1 ccd. Is the cross ccd bad for all games, or some games would run jsut fine?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You're not getting it. All games will saturate 100% of the cache because that's how computers work. The cache is never empty, ever.
Yes, except very few games that need a lot of cores. Minecraft is the only one I know of.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
I see. I didn't know that even if the games don't need the large amounts of 3d cache, will still actually use it automatically. So any game that uses 2 ccds will basically 95% of the time stutter with the 9950x3d?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
They won't run well. Whether they'll stutter or not depends on the gang.
It's clear you don't really understand how this stuff works and I don't know how to explain it to you on a Reddit post.
Every program that is running will run in system memory. It needs somewhere to run from.
The computer will put these programs in RAM, but the parts that are being used and accessed most often will live in CPU cache because it is faster.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
And I am trying to understand how it works. Only part I still don't understand is why some games stutter and others don't if they are on different CCDs, knowing that all of them use 3d cache to its maximum?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
3d cache isn't something games go out of their way to "use". What you get with cross CCD is latency. Different games have different programming, so they behave differently.
Maybe you should just get the 9800X3D.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Wish there is a way for lasso to grab all games in steam and add them to be configured for a specific CCD easily.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Technically you can configure Steam's affinity and all games will inherit that affinity. Just beware that some games may crash using affinity.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
Interesting, I will try to set CPU sets for Steam and see if games will automatically inherit it.
That_Canadian_flake@reddit
I need the 16 cores for other tasks, besides gaming. That's the whole point of the 9950x3d
eagle356@reddit
I tried this for microsoft Flight simulator and been playing using Steam VR. I set both with cpu sets to ccd0. I can see improvements and getting more fps and responsive but it wont last long. Msfs froze twice after few minutes. Then i stopped process lasso, now msfs stable and running without problems. So not sure something fails or not stable. Or is process lasso free version does something in the middle?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Maybe something else is wrong, I'm not sure why it would freeze completely.
eagle356@reddit
Hmm wonder why. Think i set it in current instead of always. Was thinking process lasso just stopped in the middle after sometime. But still after like 20min flying - everything freezes.
HourHand6018@reddit
i just use lasso cause in cities skylines 2 i need all cores, and the bios auto sets to just x3d, but that game use massive cpu, so 16 is not even close of enoght....now is all other games cpu to just x3d will help....
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Wut
Gloomy-Ad3143@reddit
Isn't it logic that lasso is better? With game mode, game and win processes are all dumped to CC0. With lasso, game is using CC0, all other tasks CC1.
Morningst4r@reddit
Unless your PC is complete mess of terrible, always running software (like bad RGB software or something), or you're running something meaningful in the background, I really doubt background tasks are making a 10%+ difference.
cat1092@reddit
10% is a lot of difference!
Could easily be the difference between winning/losing all types of games, to include e-sporting against others (or as part of a team).
Prasiatko@reddit
It's more about making sure all the game threads are using the same cache rather than having to move data back and forth between caches.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes, that was the point of my post.
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
So I should set all other background processes that aren't the game to the non cache cores?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No. Processes mostly use CCD1 by default anyway. There's no harm in doing so but I think it's a waste of time.
But I will test it to be sure.
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
Ok man thanks! I tested just doing the game to cache cores like you recommended and it lowered my CPU frametime by about 1.5-2 ms! Descent bump!
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Did you also disable Game Mode?
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
I wonder if it makes games less prone to stutters as well. That would be good! As I play vr mostly
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You didn't answer my question lol.
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
Haha yeh my bad I'm getting muddled like my CPU cores before this fix 😂
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
Oh sorry yes I disabled it
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
Yes I did
poorlycooked@reddit
A logical next step is to test again without lasso, and with the CCD1 disabled in BIOS. Basically 9800X3D oc mode
Icy_Scientist_4322@reddit
I am just weird that this obvious truth is something surprising for many.
Ground_Effect212@reddit
I don't understand some of the shade you got in this thread. Because this really freaking works. I have been chasing stutters, audio popping, and overall lack of expected performance from my 9950X3D for the past 5 months. Fresh Windows 11 install. Went as far as reaching out to AMD, thinking it was a weak/busted memory controller, who advised it was performing as expected. Sigh. Even used PL previously. but somehow my games all would freeze/crash. Most of all the YT tutorials tell you to change the affinity, which now, I know is horribly incorrect. I finally gave into resignation and just turned the sound off when using MSFS 2024 and running CCPC in driver mode. Stutters every 8-10 seconds, followed by an audio pop. That was until I found this thread. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this profile and the steps you've described. For me, this was such a significant improvement in all of my games and the audio popping stopped. Again, I can't thank you enough for this.
If you landed here because you have a dual CCD and run MSFS 2020 or 2024 and really frustrated with MSFS chasing the higher Freq cores despite game bar, game mode, chipset driver installed properly, and CCPC set to driver. Use this stuff and follow the directions closely. I gained about 30 FPS from this in the sim which is kinda unbelievable.
I wish ya had a donate link, I would buy ya a coffee for this. I appreciate you.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I'm not sure why your audio was affected but I'm glad it helped.
Ground_Effect212@reddit
Every time either the simulator or one of the programs that I use in conjunction in the simulator would breech across to CCD1 which was parked. I watched it happen on resource manager/task manager. When it hammered the now unparked core, I got an audio pop, probably exacerbated by my ANC headset but it was very prominent. It was weird, but I ran across an AMD thread about this exact stuff and an engineer reported that regardless of the driver etc, if the 3D V cache cores gets saturated beyond its capability, the coding will force a jump to the other CCD to offload the demand. Then bring it back. Unfortunately, when it did this, some of the processes would be tied to the simulator directly causing the stutter/freeze etc. I went down the wormhole on this topic. LOL. Even replaced my ram thinking it was a memory instability issue.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
This is actually what I repeatedly tried to talk to AMD support about with the 7950X3D. That in certain games with high CPU usage the frequency cores would repeatedly unpark and re-park and cause stuttering.
Alternative_Talk6079@reddit
I legit just upgraded my RAM in hopes of fixing the same audio problem.... u/HeWhoShantNotBeNamed and his efforts fixed it thank god.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yeah the stuttering I experienced in my testing years ago with the 7950X3D was exactly this, cores would repeatedly unpark and re-park. This was a major issue in Minecraft.
I've talked to AMD and this multiple times but I think they can't really implement a solution because it has to come from Microsoft. Microshit.
Ground_Effect212@reddit
Yup. Which is why your solution absolutely works because it takes Microshit out of the equation. So thank you, like seriously.
qgshadow@reddit
hey did you update your config since then ?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I update it semi regularly.
xastunts@reddit
Okay so I can confirm that after running a clean fresh format of OS drive and reinstalling win11 trying out the 9950x3D with the STANDARD scheduler and letting xbox game bar handling the job, it is way more better and smoother gameplay using the OP recommendations to use process lasso and to disable game mode in win 11. This shit works!!!
Longjumping-Notice76@reddit
so dont use process lasso?
xastunts@reddit
Well I am not! I am using a similar app called System Explorer (freeware) that can also set the affinity permanently
DADAchuYT@reddit
Where do you look to see if a game is parked correctly?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Why would a game be parked? That makes no sense.
DADAchuYT@reddit
Sorry not really experienced with this. I heard games like valorant doesn't follow lasso. Is there a way to check which cores it's currently using? I set my cppc to frequency in bios and so just wanted to check.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Why?
You can just look at task manager and see if the cache cores suddenly shoot up. But otherwise not really.
DADAchuYT@reddit
I read another post said to set cppc to frequency so I don't have to change non-game processes to frequency manually. I only have to change game related services. Does that not work?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Frequency is the default CPPC anyway so it doesn't do anything if you turn off Game Mode.
yin711214@reddit
Hey, I’ve tried process lasso for about a week now, I did get a lot of improvement on fps. However my games kept crashing. Do you have similar issues? I wonder if it has anything to do with overclock or the amd chipset driver I installed.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Did you use CPU Sets and not Affinity?
If so, then it has nothing to do with Process Lasso. CPU overclock won't crash games but GPU overclock absolutely will.
yin711214@reddit
Thanks for the reply. I used affinity with some before but yesterday I changed everything to sets. I didn’t set a global*, I selected some background programs like discord and set them individually to cpu sets. I did I little bit of gpu overclock but that’s inside Nvidia app. All the game I was experiencing crashes have a EAC, I wonder if that’s related. I didn’t put EAC under any sets or affinity.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
?
yin711214@reddit
Easy-Anti-Cheat
TalonRahl_exe@reddit
@hewhoshantnotbenamed I have been really underwhelmed with the performance of the 9950x3d so far so I am going to take your advice and try and do what you say. I have two questions in regards to this.
Did you fully disable game bar? I saw you turned off game mode.
What did you set the preferred ccd mode to in bios? The cppc preferred setting. Frequency, driver, cache or auto?
I’m going to give your profile a try! Thanks again
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
The only way to do this is through PowerShell, and no I didn't.
Don't change this. Leave it on Auto.
Priority has nothing to do with Sets. CPU Sets sets specific cores, Priority just tells the schedule which process gets more CPU time under full utilization. If you're referring to Affinity, it's because some games will crash.
That's the biggest improvement I saw.
Make sure to assign the CPU Sets to cache for your specific game.
TalonRahl_exe@reddit
I guess another question is why cpu sets over cpu affinity?
FALCEROM@reddit
Hey, so just to clarify, i should set all the background processes automatically to only ccd without x3d, and manually set games to only ccd with x3d?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You don't need to do the first part, yes to the second part with Game Mode off.
FALCEROM@reddit
I mean it's a good thing to do no?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
It didn't make any appreciable difference in my testing.
FALCEROM@reddit
Oh ok, i'm still gonna like test it, i'm the type of guy that runs a shitton of things in the background like dedicated servers or etc. So it might help for me.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
In that case it might, you can use a wildcard rule for all processes but just make sure it's at the bottom of the list.
FALCEROM@reddit
yeah i will
rustyscope@reddit
hey, i know 4 month old but i stumbled this post while googling about 9950x3d.
i have downloaded your profile and done the mentioned above.
what i did not understand is, do i need to do "cpu set" and "cpu affinity" to CCD0 on each games?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Just CPU Sets. For every game.
No.
rustyscope@reddit
alright thanks
VampyrByte@reddit
You really should try to remove these variables as much as possible when testing performance like this. Any one of these extra pieces of software will be introducing a variance from one run to the next.
Great work though, really interesting that even after 2 years Microsoft and AMD probably haven't been able to get the best out of these chips on Windows.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
This variance becomes consistent when you do multiple runs across multiple games. I did this explicitly to test a realistic scenario.
If you completely remove all background processes, I'd wager that there would be less of a difference if any difference at all. The reason we need to do this lassoing is that the default core parking method forces all processes to share cache with the game, stealing the cache from the game.
VampyrByte@reddit
It's possible to add the realism to the results from the scientific approach. It's not as possible to divine the science from the "realistic" approach.
You don't need to wager if removing those background processes would change the result, you have the tools to test it.
We don't know how these other processes interact and work with either the default scheduling or process lasso. Maybe they have a bug, or are bad neighbours when one of these solutions is enabled. Perhaps you did a batch of tests at lunch time when discord was getting spammed, and another at 3AM when its dead for example.
Also, another suggestion would be to present frametime rather than framerate and I'd be really interested to see results at some interesting percentiles rather than just 50% and minimums but I appreciate that's a ton more work.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I did the tests back to back. These results are consistent with the testing I did with the 7950X3D. This level of scrutiny is unnecessary. If you want to test it, feel free. I only did the testing at all as a PSA.
DiamondHandsToUranus@reddit
Just wanted to drop a quick note here and mention a lot of our friends use your method and aren't the vociferous types who feel the need to come in here and pick nits or argue about this or that. All my lurker homies use PL and your methods for most games.
There are a few uncommonly CPU hungry games like Helldivers 2 for example that seem to do better with PL off because they'll take all the CPU they can get.
Anyway. Thank you. I thank you. Our introvert friends who use your settings thank you. Our lurker friends who read, use, and don't post thank you.
May the universe smile upon you and be good to you, as your knowledge has done for us
Temptazn@reddit
Isn't it odd that nothing changed on the AMD end in the intervening two years?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes and no. It might be that there isn't much else they can do other than beg Microsoft to implement it correctly.
Temptazn@reddit
But you tested at lowest possible graphics settings...how is that "realistic scenario".
Who is pairing a flagship 9950x3d with a GPU that is only capable of lowest graphics settings?
I find this all a bit theoretical anyways. Even my 7950X3D with 5080FE, FPS exceeds my 4k/240Hz and 1080p/480Hz monitor framrate at ultimate settings.
imendars@reddit
u/HeWhoShantNotBeNamed
What do you think about solution in How to make the 9950X3D even better for streaming - YouTube ?
Im thinking of using this solution or yours for gaming, have not made final decision (my new pc have not yet arrived...)
The main idea is to set CPPC Dynamic Preferred Cores to cache and without process lasso.
Would you please consider testing this scendario and comparing with your current method?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
The problem with that is that other processes will be forced to share the cache with the game AND the game can accidentally schedule threads on the frequency CCD AND normal processes will be slower using the slower cache cores.
This seems like the absolute worst possible solution. I really would not do this, it will perform worse than default configuration.
imendars@reddit
Ty for reply.
It seems there is very little research on this, but i understand your logic.
Process Lasso does seem like more pro/stable solution and that CPPC Dynamic Preferred Cores -> cache - more like a wild card.
Feels like worth researching (and comparing), since close to no one have tested how it works. Also important to have newest bios (few days ago they released something important) and prrocessor drivers.
Cant wait for my new computer!
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
This guy includes it in some of his tests. Unfortunately he only throws it in as a wildcard and not fully tested on both power profiles, but it does confirm my testing at least: https://youtu.be/jkuRCj4g-5I
imendars@reddit
Got my new computer, works amasing.
Got process lasso pro, so far I only set cpu affinity for games and other software - what i want specifically to what processor (cash heavy one or the other), everything seems to work fantastic.
And ofc balanced power plan.
Good thing there is reset configurration button - as i understand it - that button would clear all the affinities i set, right?
Is it ok if i just set cpu affinities and not touch cpu sets that you used? (yes, i used Alsays option...)
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No because some games will crash.
Huh?
I don't know what button you're referring to.
imendars@reddit
Ty for info, you just earned new customer for Process Lasso (as soon as i get my new PC and hopefully its before festivities next week lol).
I can see myself playing with process affinity a LOT. :D :D
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I don't work for them lol
Ferdy700@reddit
should i turn game mode off and use balanced powerplan when using a i 17 13th intel cpu ?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I have no experience with Intel.
xV_Slayer@reddit
I gave what you said a shot and the difference was about 5 FPS at most. I tried CP2077, Marvel Rivals, Monster Hunter and Tomb Raider. All the results were within margin of error and nothing like what you show. Given that reviewers across numerous test systems also never saw what you did and were closer to my results tells me one of two things. Either you are not disclosing that you are running a bunch of stuff in the background while doing these tests in which case I can see Process Lasso being better or your system is messed up. Either way you are posting false information which is cringe and wasted my time as I actually believed you.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Nobody tested this scenario... Unless you have a link and evidence to the contrary.
What resolution are you running? If you're GPU bottlenecked it won't make as big a difference. I tested with an elite GPU and low settings on games to exaggerate the difference.
You provided no evidence of anything and then accused me shit.
xV_Slayer@reddit
You didn’t provide anything either. I will take photos of the benchmarks today to show you.
imendars@reddit
the whole point is for computers with more than just game running. if you have background stuff than that background stuff does not affect 8 cores that are for gaming. or affect as little as possible.
if not using this method than 8 cache cores share the same 8 cores with all processes. If nothing happens this is ofcourse not needed. But, for example, if you stream or do some who knows what on another monitor while gaming (or someone runs 2 games, duno why but some people do that), you will have more cores working.
imendars@reddit
Thank you for your great work!
AMD 9 9950X3D with Asus X870E Plus motherboard on its way to me and this helps A LOT!!!!!!
Even thought i'm not a streamer i really dont like the idea of using only 8 cores of 16. This just gives so many options, specially since i'm one of the few who still uses antivirus (Bitdefender), so it will help that all the nonsense i run will be on other 8 cores and game wont be bothered at all. :D :D
xastunts@reddit
I would like to add that whenever P Lasso AKA PL was working as intended everything was fine! However it usually wasn't working fine!! Many times it would LAG the whole system badly, and the only way out of it was to REBOOT the PC. I found a similar app to PL called System Explorer. It is a FREEWARE and I highly recommend it.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Did you actually read the post? What you said doesn't really make sense and doesn't seem related to my post.
xastunts@reddit
in what kind of way does it not relate to your post? your post is regarding the application called process lasso right? did you even read my post is the correct way to end this conversation.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
My post is about optimizing a specific CPU.
xastunts@reddit
well you are very much wrong! system explorer is a freeware and you can permanently set the affinities for each and every app or game you want.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You can't use CPU Sets. Affinity will crash games.
xastunts@reddit
really? i still havent faced any issues without using the cpu sets
Tofoux@reddit
Thanks!! I've got a fresh new PC with a 9950X3D and I can clearly confirm that it works. I imported your profile, CPU set to cache for my games. I think that's the best way to optimize it, because with automatic parking and Game Mode ON, not only the game but ALL applications get moved to the cache. Whereas with Process Lasso, only the game is on the cache. It makes sense. For all the skeptics out there, you should really give it a try.
retrolux@reddit
I can confirm that it helps. Especially in VR it really makes a difference ob many titles. What is important is to put the vrcompositor.exe & vrserver.exe and also the vrdashboard.exe into the cached ccd. This reduces the latency between CCDs as they exchange data with the VR game.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Interesting observation!
xastunts@reddit
I do have a question about one setting in Process Lasso.
Options/Power/Performance Mode/ "Change power profile when engaged"
Do you set that to enable or not?
I have disabled it to keep the balanced plan active. Just wanna hear your thoughts about this one.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No. I don't see a benefit to this.
I did test High Performance and didn't really see a major FPS difference.
Some YouTubers have tested it and the better performance plan will depend on the game.
xastunts@reddit
thank you for replying! I set that option to OFF to always keep it to the balanced plan.
djc5166@reddit
Does game mode do anything else outside of letting gamebar communicate with the driver? Would it not be better to set CPPC to frequency and leave game mode enabled?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No because it would park the cache cores (I've tested this)). It would be the worst possible performance.
djc5166@reddit
I thought setting CPCC to 'frequency' instead of auto or driver would keep gamemode and the AMD drivers from parking anything. Maybe i just don't understand exactly what the setting means.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No. CPPC is just the "preferred cores". Game Mode must be off (or power plan set to High Performance) to prevent parking.
You must still turn off Game Mode. I guess if you both set CPPC to Frequency AND use High Performance power profile then it won't park. I could test this but it seems like even more work without any actual benefit other than Game Mode turning off notifications (which doesn't work consistently anyway).
xastunts@reddit
it's been 2 months since this post, and id like to know if you have any more feedback to add? I will be getting my 9950X3D in a day or two from now. First thing I will do is format the os drive and a clean win 11 install. latest amd chipset drivers and amd adrenalin latest first to test. i have issues with the latest amd adrenalin drivers on my current 7800X3D cpu and 7900XTX gpu./ hoping that this new cpu will not cause any problem with the latest amd adr driver.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Not really.
What i can tell you though is that many people have had issues with the latest AMD GPU driver, with games crashing.
xastunts@reddit
on latest amd chipset drivers 7.04, and also latest adrenalin 25.5.1. (use to stay at 24.9.1) as any other newer adrenaline version would crash on my previous 7800X3D buil. only tested bo6 warzone and no crashes yet after hours of gaming.
xastunts@reddit
reverted back to 24.9.1 adrenalin driver and also made sure that the page file is turned on and more than windows is giving me. i tried with page file of and i got stutters.
xV_Slayer@reddit
Your PC is not setup correctly. Try again.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Is this a troll?
xV_Slayer@reddit
Why would it be a troll. Your results are so different compared to everyone else including mine it is clear you have no idea what you are doing.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
What results from "everyone else"?
Anything is possible when you make shit up and then lie about it. But yeah, "you're wrong, trust me bro" is certainly a great comeback to someone who's been building PCs and tinkering for many years AND HAS A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE AND HAS DESIGNED THEIR OWN PROCESSOR.
That's right. I've created my own CPU design. And you have done what? I did extensive testing using AMD's exact recommended settings and the driver vs Process Lasso, and I've done this exact test before on the 7950X3D.
You definitely don't have results to compare to because you don't have Process Lasso. But yeah, lying is cool.
And looking at your profile, you seem to get off on this behavior of telling other people they're wrong with zero evidence of your own.
xV_Slayer@reddit
So you have no idea what you are doing as I said. What a surprise.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Shove off troll.
_Kai@reddit
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
It is definitely running and I can observe the cores parking. If you look at my Universe Sandbox results it should be more clear that it is working.
I don't need to do this. It's working as intended.
xV_Slayer@reddit
Clearly it isn’t as you have such an outlier compared to everyone else ya clown.
deh2win@reddit
You should send this to Steve from gamer nexus!
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I actually did. And I did when the 7950X3D came out as well.
xV_Slayer@reddit
You just don’t know how to setup your computer properly.
msalad@reddit
Why is setting the Windows power plan to Balanced necessary?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
It's that by default. High Performance will keep the clocks high and can decrease single-threaded boost clocks due to current limitations.
Gregyski@reddit
While I have the Windows power plan set to Balanced, what about the power plan in Process Lasso? I can't remember if I changed it at some point or if it defaulted to it, but it's set to Bitsum Highest Performance. Do you have that set to Balanced as well?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I used to have balanced but changed it to Bitsum Highest Performance to test and got, anecdotally, a 2% boost.
I didn't test it very scientifically. A YouTuber did a test with it and it really depends on the game which does better.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
AIUI, the "core parking" "driver" is making off-label use of Windows' (old, abandoned?) scheme for making use of deep C-states, which bring core power to essentially zero but have fairly high wake-up latency.
The original purpose of core parking was to save power in typical mostly-idle desktop workloads by bunching processes onto a small number of cores so that the rest could stay in deep sleep.
YakovAU@reddit
FYI, if a game has an anti cheat, and is a steam game, you can set steam to use the cache cores, which for some reason, makes the steam game follow the rules you set for steam, if you try to set a rule for a game with anti cheat it will reject otherwise.
sssr@reddit
I tried this myself.
My chipset/bios all up to date and game bar was working flawlessly.
After following the instructions with Lasso I can confirm that my fps is much more stable in games. It also utilizes CCD1 cores perfectly for non-game related apps running in the background.
Thank you very much OP this did indeed make a difference for me.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You'll just have to remember to do it with every game which is annoying.
MoistTour429@reddit
Would you also set CPPC to “frequency” using this method? Or is that kind of default behavior with the chip?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
No, it's the default behavior.
MoistTour429@reddit
Thanks! I was looking into this last night and tried using lasso and the system went completely nuts, I failed to realize that you have to disable game mode 🤦🏻♂️ pretty dumb on my part…. Your post is awesome! Thank you!
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Definitely disable Game Mode.
MoistTour429@reddit
I tested this out quite a bit tonight, at 4k ultra (as GPU bound as could be) i still saw a definite difference in capframex! wont show up on "in game" benchmarks for much more than margin of error, but those frametime charts dont lie! thanks my friend!
Aggravating_Ring_714@reddit
This dude is the single best source of information for this cpu lol. Thanks for the insights that for some reason no one else provides. It’s like reviewers use this cpu for a few games and synthetic shit and that’s it. No real world performance/experience whatsoever. Getting my 9950x3d soon, can’t wait to apply the suggested settings. To reiterate though, windows power plan: Balanced is always the best right? And for games, simply turn windows game mode off (also no need for xbox game bar with lasso, right), assign vcache ccd to game and that’s it. Vcache ccd will be used exclusively for the game, the other ccd is used for non game tasks with this.
I’m wondering what’s the point of game mode then btw. Seems like a weird design decision.
Infamous-Metal-103@reddit
Do you not have to set the other background apps to use non cache cc'd individually?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes keep Balanced. And yes with off Game Mode.
Game bar doesn't really matter, I've left it intact for capturing recording the last 30 seconds of my game (Nvidia App is a piece of garbage).
It's a lazy decision. The real fix is in Microsoft's hands to fix their scheduler. Which they won't.
GoldenX86@reddit
AyyMD engineering at its finest.
Cheeze_It@reddit
CPU scheduler is the issue. Not AMD.
ErektalTrauma@reddit
Nothing stopping AMD from making a hardware scheduler like Intel.
Cheeze_It@reddit
That is absolutely true. However that adds yet another layer if indirection. Doing that has much more chance to add even more entropy and uncertainty which can cause even more performance problems.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You're not wrong. It's Microsoft's fault.
Brief_Swordfish6122@reddit
Is it still advisable to use balance mode ? because when I start process Lasso it automatically sets my power to bitsum high performance
BrainContusionsAgain@reddit
Does Game mode interfere with process lasso? I've always left it on but set any game where I noticed any sort of hitching to use the cache cores with lasso and it almost always smooths things out. I find that game mode/game bar gets it right often enough and I just use process lasso for a few games that aren't quite optimized correctly
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Game Mode causes core parking, which forces all the non-game processes to share cache with the game.
You will get better performance with Game Mode disabled.
Medium_Web6083@reddit
Can this method work on Intel cpu like 285k and 265k?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I don't know much about them.
Xiuhtec@reddit
I just built a system with a 9950X3D and not only is it my first dual-CCD chip it's my first time going with AMD over Intel since like the Thunderbird, so reading up on all this is a little confusing with differing advice everywhere, particularly since some of the advice is probably outdated but it's hard to tell what is and isn't still true.
Is there a particular CPPC BIOS setting I should be using, or is default fine? Are default settings for Process Lasso on a fresh installation good or should I configure something? Do I leave Game Mode on or disable it (as you had to for the 7950X3D in another post)? Do I assign cache or freq CCD affinity to games (seems like cache for most, but some games prefer freq and requires per-game testing?), and does this need to be done manually in Process Lasso or is Game Mode going to do this on its own anyway for popular games? Do I manually also assign the opposite CCD to things that are generally background tasks (Firefox, Discord, etc) or let Windows handle non-games automatically?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
You don't need to change the CPPC. It defaults to frequency when not in a game and in Game Mode.
That's up to you. I also like to set annoying Windows processes like the search indexer and Windows Update to the lowest CPU and I/O priority.
It needs to be disabled for Process Lasso. Game Mode is what triggers core parking and the CPPC to change.
The vast majority of games will benefit from cache. Universe Sandbox is different because it's a simulation.
Every single game must be manually set in Process Lasso.
What? I'm comparing Process Lasso to Game Mode. All Game Mode does is park CCD and set the preferred cores to CCD0. It's a janky solution which is why it doesn't perform as well .
No, you don't need to. As long as Game Mode is off, Windows will assign these to the frequency cores automatically.
Temptazn@reddit
Sorry, and thank you for your testing. I don't mean to be too thick, but I don't quite get this;
So Windows assigns background tasks to CCD1 automatically with Game Mode off yeah?
What does it do with Games when Game Mode is off, does it also send to CCD1?
With Game Mode off (and no process lasso), everything goes to CCD1...Does Windows ever invoke the CCD0 when game mode is off, or does the AMD driver recognise a game and send it to CCD0?
I notice (Game Mode on, no PL) that the game occupies CCD0 with a single core on CCD1 doing whatever it does. The rest of the cores on CCD1 appear parked.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
For the most part. It doesn't distinguish games. Frequency is the preferred CPPC by default. When there's Game Mode, the driver changes the preferred CPPC to cache and then parks the frequency cores.
Some threads will go there. Frequency cores are preferred, not set in stone.
No, if this were the case then why would we need Process Lasso?
This will vary depending on the load. This observation is actually part of the reason that the performance is worse (the other being that all processes are forced to share the cache).
dervu@reddit
Isn't there a way to have every .exe from given folder/subfolders to use CCD0? That would be a lot simpler to have all games under one folder to do that. So for instance all steam games it would be one folder.
fromtheether@reddit
Just saw you comment right after I replied above, but yeah you can. PL supports wildcards for CPU affinity/set rules.
fromtheether@reddit
Just wanted to chime in and say that, depending on your folder structure, you can use wildcards to set PL rules for affinity/sets. You don't have to set every single one, but I'm sure you'll have some exceptions.
For example, I have a base rule to set all games under C:\Games\Steam to use the set (0-7). Then above that one, I have a couple of exemptions, like for ER to use affinity instead, and FF16 to use all cores.
Xiuhtec@reddit
Appreciate the answers. There is a lot of outdated or straight up misinformation out there and it's tough to sort through.
dfv157@reddit
I suppose upgrading from lasso 7950x3d would just be a drop in upgrade then lol
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes. Exact same configuration. AMD claimed to have improved things, everyone talked about it, and it's just NOT. Lol.
icy1007@reddit
I’m not seeing much of any improvement using game mode/drivers vs process lasso on my 9950X3D. It’s basically the exact same.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Did you actually run benchmarks? What did you do for configuration? And keep in mind that GPU bound games will see less difference which is why I lowered quality to low.
Savage4Pro@reddit
Did you have numbers for the lasso'd 7950x3d? The post doesnt.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
If you click the link to my original post and scroll to the bottom. That test was not very scientific.
Savage4Pro@reddit
I noticed the Cinebench one, I was looking for comparable benchmarks between lasso'd 7950x3d and lasso'd 9950x3d.
x3nics@reddit
12 core CCDs can't come quick enough.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Not sure that would help. We would need a 16-core CCD.
Reactor-Licker@reddit
So, let me get this straight, please correct me if I’m wrong:
By default, when Windows detects a game the non cache CCD is effectively totally disabled, even when background tasks are running, assuming everything works “properly” (which it sounds like it doesn’t really). So if I’m recording using OBS or have a YouTube video playing in the background, they are all locked to the cache CCD when a game is running, even though there is perfectly good idle CCD for those tasks.
Turning off Game Mode disables all core parking on the 9950X3D.
Windows still can’t identify cache favorable games vs frequency favorable games.
Some games haven’t been properly added to the AMD driver list for proper scheduling behavior, especially older or obscure ones
Does Intel’s implementation suffer any of these same issues? If not, why? This appears to be one area Intel has a serious advantage over AMD for once.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Parked, not disabled. It can unpark under heavy load.
Not really "locked", but heavily preferred to use the cache, yes. They will share resources with the game. It's stupid.
Windows can't identify shit other than "this is a game". AMD is doing all the work.
Yes.
I have no idea.
Regular_Tomorrow6192@reddit
Cool tests, very interesting results. Now if only we could get AMD/Microsoft to make this happen automatically.
VforVictorian@reddit
Thank you for sharing. I was looking to test some things myself since this is my first time using using one of these heterogenous CPUs, but haven't had much opportunity to use it yet because of work. I will try your suggestions when I get a chance.
PeasantPotatoBoi@reddit
Thank you very much for sharing and taking the time to answer questions in the comments.
battler624@reddit
the tests with Lasso I assume is without the optimization driver thing?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes.
TuskNaPrezydenta2020@reddit
How do you even give full access to all cores? If it's detected as a game the best I can see is entire ccd0+one or two cores from ccd1 if the load is really really high.
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
By disabling Game Mode, the driver doesn't park cores or do anything.
Tee__B@reddit
That sounds way off. Are you using the balanced powerplan?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes. Test it yourself.
Noble00_@reddit
I'm assuming you are also on the latest chipset driver and AGESA and are on Windows Balanced profile as well? Have you noticed anything with core utilization when playing games? Also, supposedly you can use Game bar and manually focus on a program/game, have you tried that and compared results?
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
Yes.
Yes.
Power plan, yes.
In Cyberpunk, the second CCD didn't stay completely parked, one core would occasionally come online.
I'm not sure what you're asking.
Tee__B@reddit
I'm skeptical about him being on the right power plan.
Noble00_@reddit
I mean, it's fair to say that the dual CCD X3D chips aren't perfect. It is a physical limitation after all. \~10% average deviation compared to a 9800X3D isn't outlandish. But I don't think on average the gap should be that big. Of course some games here and there may not work as it should.
But, when most reviews pit the 9950X3D and 9800X3D together and don't find glaring issues, it doesn't really seem to add up.
For instance, here is Eurogamers (Digital Foundry) and PCGamesHardaware results (the latter you can isolate the 9950X3D and 9800X3D). Just leaving it as it is with everything updated, it works fine, some deviation, but overall not a stark difference.
Here are some other user experiences:
https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-zen-5-x3d-owners-club-9800x3d-9900x3d-9950x3d.1812505/page-306?post_id=29444042#post-29444042
https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-zen-5-x3d-owners-club-9800x3d-9900x3d-9950x3d.1812505/page-304?post_id=29443885#post-29443885
https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-zen-5-x3d-owners-club-9800x3d-9900x3d-9950x3d.1812505/page-303?post_id=29443741#post-29443741
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
The 9950X3D has higher clock speeds. If the software worked correctly, every game would beat the 9800X3D.
theholylancer@reddit
I think you are looking at the wrong set of games
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d/17.html
at 720p, where performance is very much CPU bottlenecked, TPU shows that average 9800X3D is 106% of 9950X3D, similar at 1080 at 104.8% better
specific to the games tested by OP, cyberpunk is 242.3 FPS to 221.4 FPS and very similar at 1080p to OP's numbers at 248.1 FPS vs 217.2 FPS 9950X3D
a lot of the games chosen for testing are modern games where AMD likely have worked on a LOT of optimization, while the OP chosen older games like FC6 and tiny tinas that likely didn't get as much love from AMD
and then cyberpunk shows that even with love they didn't do as much work.
but TPU's tests showed that in places like elden ring and BG3 there can be equal or improvements right
HeWhoShantNotBeNamed@reddit (OP)
I am absolutely on the right power plan, which is Balanced.