Lotus will produce hybrid versions of future models in response to the continued reluctance of luxury car buyers to move to EVs. Will they announce ICE only models next?

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strongmanass@reddit

They plan to offer EREVs and PHEVs. I strongly doubt they'll offer ICE-only models in the future. It's easy enough to pivot to hybrids with the existing business plan. But volume ICEVs would pose a problem for their long-term planning. And this needs saying, Lotus got bought by Geely because their ICE-only enthusiast vehicles haven't been a sustainable business plan for a very long time.

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BeigeChocobo@reddit

They've got about 12-14 years of Emira production to think about it.

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peopeopeopeo10@reddit

How many years can the Emira survive in the market tho. Not too much of a desirable car to begin with

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kholin@reddit

Other than a gts 4.0 there's nothing else close to it in the market. It's very desirable as a drivers car, but not for people chasing magazine stats and 0-60. I'm very biased but I've had the luck of having some amazing cars, the emira just feels right to me and I'm loving every second/mile of it

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Eldarxo@reddit

Corvette C8?

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kholin@reddit

It's a boat in comparison

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03Void@reddit

The Emira and Cayman are kinda in the same category as the Miata for this (not the same price, but still). If you have to ask "yes but X model has more power for cheaper", then you're missing the whole point of the car: the driving experience.

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skerpz@reddit

Exactly. EV’s have made straight line speed kind of moot. A Plaid would probably beat a La Ferrari from a stop. Who cares. Any modern sports car is fast enough to have fun. If anything, it’s very fast modern cars like the M3/M4 that are boring.

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kholin@reddit

Agreed. I still want to go kinda fast with the rest of the experience! And the looks don't hurt

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

This sub doesn't want to hear it, but Lotus doesn't have the reliability, dealer network, and service quality to sustain such a nice product. The company posted a 500mm pound loss on the year. Emira prices are tanking.

I wouldn't get one. There's no dealer near me, and parts are expensive and take forever to ship.

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backpackrack@reddit

I once asked the lotus parts dept. for delivery times for an Elise S3 headlight. The only reesponse I got from a very nice woman was "6 months, 7? Maybe 12 and maybe never sadly. I have no idea!"

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Promit@reddit

“Tanking” is a bit dramatic but it’s quite easy to find in-stock units at FE 2.0 pricing and I have seen a few transactions at the five digit original FE 1.0 price which was surprising. A lot of people bailed on their orders for one reason or another, and dealerships haven’t been able to command markup.

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

You can get Emira's for under $100K here in NC. I don't see the trend reversing for the very reasons you stated haha

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Jermanthony@reddit

ICEV is a confusing acronym

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strongmanass@reddit

If you see it without mention of an EV, then yeah. But it's easier than typing "ICE cars" or "ICE vehicles" and it gives a direct comparison to the "EV" acronym.

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mgobla@reddit

A heavy PHEV doesn't solve the weight issue. Lotus buyers care about WEIGHT, people who don't care about weight will buy literally any other brand, they have no reason to buy a Lotus.

Lotus needs to ditch the cheap chinese platform, they need to build something with a carbon chassis, people will pay more for it.

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Porshuh@reddit

Lotus needs to wait for an OEM and/or tier 1 supplier to make a suitable engine with a hybrid turbo that can be paired with a manual transmission. Sort of what we're about to see Porsche do, and allegedly Mazda.

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CrocCapital@reddit

I don’t want a car that’s prone to cracking. steel is real.

^/r/xbiking

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Porshuh@reddit

Sorry, but mountain bicycles just aren't designed and manufactured to the standard of cars or airplanes, where composite failures are non-existent. Composites have low impact absorption relative to their ultimate strength so I'm not surprised that thin carbon bicycle frames with no suspension supporting 200lb humans probably weren't properly designed for all of their load cases.

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Recoil42@reddit

Lotus buyers care about WEIGHT

Lotus doesn't want Lotus buyers — no one wants Lotus buyers. Lotus buyers aren't numerous or profitable enough to sustain the company and they lead to financial ruin — that's how the brand got into this goddamn mess to begin with.

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mgobla@reddit

No one else is going to buy a Lotus.

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HeyyyyListennnnnn@reddit

The same problem once applied to Porsche. The options are change or perish, so Lotus must attempt to change. The car market has changed a lot since Porsche made their transition from serial basket case, but the brand is a lot stronger than they ever have been and they owe a lot of it to ignoring enthusiast opinion.

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mgobla@reddit

If Porsche only built EVs they would perish too...

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A_Puddle@reddit

But Porsche changed not by pivoting away from enthusiasts but by building SUVs and courting luxury customers in order to continue to fund their enthusiast products. Their cars may be virtually unobtainable for most enthusiasts, but they do still make excellent drivers cars, with combustion engines and manual transmissions.

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Bottlely@reddit

I heard a long time back that Polestar's UK team had a lot of former Lotus engineers. That division were the ones who built the Polestar 5's "ultralight and stiff" monocoque platform, which will help it weigh under 2 tonnes unlike its main rivals.

Meanwhile, the 2.3k tonne Lotus Emeya and Eletre are both built on a sportier version of the Zeekr platform. Some of that engineering innovation would be nice to see again.

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WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit

At this point Lotus is dead to me as a company so I really don't care what they do.

At first it seemed like they were going the Porsche route and making SUVs to allow them to continue making sports cars. Except the SUVs came and they phoned in the Emira and not a peep about anything else. Then they announced they were no longer making ICE models. Which is fine, but as a company whose primary focus is weight savings that goes completely against their ethos with the current state of battery technology.

Lotus exists in name only at this point and I'd rather they died off than become some unrecognizable version of what they were.

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an_actual_lawyer@reddit (OP)

The Emira is a great driver's car and one that will be even better once production catches up to demand and they start making lighter versions.

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WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit

I felt that it was a step back from the Evora in terms of a drivers car. They softened the edges to make it have more appeal as a GT car and it was worse off for it. They did improve the shifter but didn't do much for the engine which was always the weakest part of the car IMO.

I don't really see anything on Lotus' radar that hints at lighter models coming back. There was the rumored collaboration with Alpine and that ended up falling out.

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megacookie@reddit

Was the Evora all that hard edged to start with? They came out with more aggressive track focused variants towards the end of its lifetime but the original was very much a GT car by Lotus standards. It even has (admittedly tiny) rear seats, further pushing the GT appeal.

As for the engine, would the AMG turbo 4 be an improvement or a downgrade over the Toyota V6?

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mustangfan12@reddit

Hopefully they will, with EVs there's much less that can be done to make them unique to drive. Anyone can easily make a 500-600hp EV, and since there's no transmission or exhaust note, they will all drive mostly the same. I honestly don't see how the exotic car makers are going to survive the EV transition when new ICE vehicles actually get banned

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mgobla@reddit

They could be different by using a carbon fibre chassis and a smaller battery to be much lighter. Instead they kill the brand by rebadging a cheap chinese platform.

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Recoil42@reddit

Jacking up the manufacturing cost astronomically and gutting the range isn't going to help Lotus sell cars — it's going to get them laughed out of the room.

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mgobla@reddit

Selling cars in the price range of $1 million+ = much bigger profit margains than what they are doing now.

Lotus chance at survival is focusing on billionaires and collectors by building special cars.

Rebadging chinese cars will fail. People in th $100k price range won't buy chinese cars rebadged as Lotus. People in the $ 1 million+ price range would buy a Lotus that is lighter than competitors. Take a look at Gordon Murray, they are sold out afaik.

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megacookie@reddit

You're basically describing the Evija which they already made just in very limited production. Full carbon fiber chassis, 2000hp from 4 motors, 4100lbs (heavy but 1000lb lighter than a Rimac Nevera).

Hypercars make good halo vehicles to increase brand recognition and also develop technology that can trickle down to other models, but they are almost never profitable due to the massive R&D costs, long development and production lead times, and no scaleability for mass production.

I disagree with them rebadging Chinese electric cars too, for what it's worth. Their new EV models (Eletre and Emeya) so far are odd looking, overweight (both 5500+lb), and from reviews seem to lack anything special when it comes to handling and driver feedback. But hopefully this just is profitable enough that they can afford to commit more resources to building proper sports cars again, EV or otherwise.

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Recoil42@reddit

Selling cars in the price range of $1 million+ = much bigger profit margains than what they are doing now.

They should try selling them for billions! Just imagine the profit margins! /s

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V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit

The battery weight is still a big enemy for fun car. I just wonder how they able to make a fun hybrid sports cars in future.

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mustangfan12@reddit

Yeah that's very true, EVs in general are too heavy

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madwolfa@reddit

Some modern ICE cars are almost as heavy or heavier than the EVs...

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Jermanthony@reddit

No they arent. Name one

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strongmanass@reddit

The M3 and the Model 3 Performance are no more than about 100 pounds apart in weight.

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julienjj@reddit

Check hargety video from 2 days ago, The M3 slaughter the model3 perf on track.

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strongmanass@reddit

I was talking about the respective weights. They're quite close.

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noodlecrap@reddit

the M3 is a joke

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Bradymyhero@reddit

The Model 3 performance is mostly just a more powerful Model 3; it hardly has the degree of reworked suspension, braking, chassis etc. engineering an M3 has

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Rattle_Can@reddit

this is about lotus here tho

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julienjj@reddit

See Gordon Murray T50. Hybrid power runs the all accessories and HVAC.
Hybrid power injected at the flywheel for acceleration when needed.

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slide2k@reddit

I don’t fully agree. Sure it has some impact. the low center of gravity and mountains of torque offer positive effects. Not having a large ICE also offers aerodynamic room to play around or space to make it “practical”. It isn’t perfect, but neither is a Miata.

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noodlecrap@reddit

no, but a miata is fun to drive

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Nyxlo@reddit

So if you put the engine from a Corvette into a Corolla, you'd expect it to drive mostly the same as a Corvette?

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mustangfan12@reddit

A Corvette engine into a Corolla sounds pretty cool, it won't drive exactly the same (due to it being bigger and different suspension), but it would make the car pretty exciting to drive.

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Jermanthony@reddit

Not much different than putting a 2.0T in everything

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strongmanass@reddit

Does every car with a 2L I4 drive the same? Do the 330i, C300, A4, Accord, G70, and Golf GTI all drive the same?

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strongmanass@reddit

Anyone can easily make a 500-600hp EV, and since there's no transmission or exhaust note, they will all drive mostly the same.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I've driven several EVs, and no two of them drive the same. Powertrain is just one aspect of vehicle character. There's power delivery; with EVs that's software-controlled, but tbh that's already the case with ICE. There's also suspension which is the thing I notice most. Then you have number of motors, torque vectoring, traction control, braking power, brake feel (huge with EVs). There's so much more to vehicle character than just the engine.

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A_Puddle@reddit

If this is a decision made due to lagging demand for their (and others) EV only products at this segment of the market I seriously doubt that adding combustion in a way that doesn’t drive the wheels is going to do little to help their case.

I don’t think range anxiety is the real problem at this market segment but rather emotional and experiential deficiencies in the eyes of the buyers.

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markeydarkey2@reddit

Not fond of calling EREVs "hybrids", they're talking about EVs with range extender generators here.

Like you won't be revving this engine out, it'll run in the background to generate power for the electric motors that power the wheels.

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MartiniPolice21@reddit

Is it the same idea as the Volt/Ampera?

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markeydarkey2@reddit

A bit different, it's like the BMW i3 REx. The Volt was a PHEV that could connect the engine to the wheels and drive as a parallel hybrid in some situations. These won't have that engine connection.

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MartiniPolice21@reddit

I can see this becoming a very common backtrack, the push for full EV has been too soon and too quick.

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OpenJelly1437@reddit

So making 100% Chinese cars and pricing them at Lamborghini levels didn't work out? And they're blaming it on people not buying EVs?

Well I'll be

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Recoil42@reddit

Literally everyone is doing this right now, it isn't a Lotus thing.

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WanganTunedKeiCar@reddit

It just hurts more that Lotus is doing it

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GeneralCommand4459@reddit

If you’re a low volume manufacturer and make weekend cars that can only be afforded by people with enough money to have several cars does it make any sense to try to go electric?

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peopeopeopeo10@reddit

Lotus' position at the moment doesn't seem to be the very best... their main selling point relies in a brand image that is getting washed out by it's current products (excuding, to a level, the Emira).

Not being an EV hater here, but... the Eletre is already kind of outdated as a concept, big electric Suv just isn't appealing to customers. Have yet to know how the Emeya drives, but I highly doubt it'll be a better alternative to Porsche Taycan, Audi RS e-tron and Tesla Model S.

I'm curious to see what they can possibly do with plug-in hybrids... also, where the fuck are Evijas?

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strongmanass@reddit

big electric Suv just isn't appealing to customers.

That's the segment of EVs that's most appealing to customers. The Eletre's problem is that it doesn't do anything to differentiate itself in a crowded marketplace. And in the US it's been slapped with a 100% tariff.

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