Which University should I choose?
Posted by Normal_Television_20@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 79 comments
I’m in a predicament and I need some advice.
I was recently accepted into Embry-Riddle’s Aeronautical Science program, which i’m so excited about knowing how good the program is. The thing is, the program is really expensive with tuition and flight training and I need every license except my private. I was also accepted into Bridgewater State University, which I know is less prestigious but tuition would be free I would only need to cover training. It’s also really close to home, I might be able to commute.
When i’m looking into getting to the airlines, would it be a big difference if i’m coming from Bridgewater or Embry-Riddle? Is getting into debt really worth it? I’m a woman and come from a long line of pilots, i’m not sure if that would make a difference either but I figured i’d mention. Thank you!
CryptographerDry7343@reddit
I guess why would you go to college when you can get your certificates and be at an airline in a 3 years with less debt. Just my opinion though
PILOT9000@reddit
What’s the 3 year path to airlines nowadays?
CryptographerDry7343@reddit
Do accelerated training (21 PPL, 7or 10 day IFR, and 3 day commercial classes, and either cfi or buy a share in a plane. That’s my path after I know countless people personally who have gone either route. One went the CFI route and just booked his schedule full, another guy bought a share and flew 10-13 hours/day (weather permitting).
PILOT9000@reddit
That path worked in that time frame a couple years ago. Nowadays people get to 1500 and can’t get a job.
CryptographerDry7343@reddit
I just had my buddy do it earlier this year, same with the cfi… all happened in August when the airlines “quit hiring” 🤷🏻♂️
ltcterry@reddit
There is zero value to a BS Professional Pilot Program. Why pay more? In state is expensive enough. Out of state or private just costs even more for the same. Same.
ERAU is not prestigious. It’s a for profit private school that wants you to think paying $350,000 over four years for $100,000 of training you can do in a year is somehow magical.
The only ERAU-trained Pilot I know well is not really all that professional.
Don’t do this unless 1) in state and 2) you have Private done before you go.
Dependent-Ad1927@reddit
Get a degree in something useful outside aviation as a fallback. They just want a degree, doesn't matter what in
Organic-Talk-3759@reddit
Someone once told me that it’s like a BMW or a Honda. Yet they perform the same functionality. It’s a matter of what you DESIRE and wanna do. I am also a woman looking into aviation and was invited by ERAU. However, I feel pressured to attend due to legacy of my uncles.
As long as you have the experience and knowledge, the airlines or whoever you are looking to work for, won’t really care. Just make sure you got a bachelor’s degree in some form of aeronautics.
TRex_N_Truex@reddit
20 years ago what school you went to may have mattered to a hiring department. Not so much anymore. There's no secret to soft field landings or a lazy 8 that Riddle knows over a smaller school like Bridgewater. Plenty of Bridgewater folk are sitting in the left seat of a big ole jet airliner. Does Riddle have more gee wiz stuff, sure. Do you care on graduation day? Probably not.
grumpycfi@reddit
I was so excited to get into ERAU's program. I bought into all the hype and marketing. Early in my first semester I started to realize what I'd done. Thankfully after that semester I bailed and figured out a far better option. It was a huge learning experience for me but it should absolutely be avoided. I'm sorry, I know that's hard to swallow, especially at this point in your life. But there's a reason that once you're out here in the industry you'll realize no one really talks about it or cares.
Go wherever is cheapest, and ideally has some kind of real academic program. Pissing away 4 years for a trade program and getting no real higher education is a waste.
Verliererkolben@reddit
I feel like the only ones saying Riddle is prestigious are the people that are from Riddle. Save the money for sure!
HoldinTheBag@reddit
Is it even prestigious to get accepted into Riddle? I was given the impression that as long as you can prove that you can actually pay for it they will take you.
fly_with_me1@reddit
Nah. 80% acceptance rate lol
Traditional-Fuel-601@reddit
You can’t be a dumbass, but it also doesn’t take much. I got accepted with a 3.9 high school GPA and no test scores.
MTBandGravel@reddit
You don’t have to prove anything, they’ll be happy to loan you the money.
RavenholdIV@reddit
Choose bridgewater to save that sweet dosh. You might be on a flight waitlist once the first semester starts. I was waiting to fly for a month or two into the first semester. The uni itself is meh. My wife attended UMass Amherst and it's a waaaay nicer place for students.
a6c6@reddit
After a quick consultation of embry riddle’s website it seems that the total cost of attendance to get to CFI and a bachelors degree is about $380,000. That is fucking insane.
I got my bachelors from a state school for about $40,000 and I am on track to get to CFI at a part 61 for about $40,000.
I cannot fathom paying that much to go to riddle. And I can’t fathom paying off that debt. And I also couldn’t fathom having my parents pay that much for it even if they wanted to
Dav1dwyd@reddit
Cfi for 40k? Whats the method??
PrimaryFree8574@reddit
He's bad at math. That's the method
a6c6@reddit
The method is living in a smaller city and going to a flight school with affordable rates
Xecentrez@reddit
Where's this
Dav1dwyd@reddit
Seriously though
Dav1dwyd@reddit
W
SpiritFlight404@reddit
My total cost was 73,040.75$ at library university( IRA, CPL, CFI ground, and transferred in credits and ensured I got the 1000 RATP as cheap as possible). I got my multi part 61(5460) and my CFI 61( 4,080), and my PPL 61 (16,190$).
Total cost of 98,770$.
Flight fees at Liberty were 48,640.75$. So 24,400 were just the course work.
It’s well worth it to save the tuition cost and just go ham on ratings.
Traditional-Fuel-601@reddit
I’m assuming by library you mean liberty. They’re a good school cost wise, so is BGSU. The only complaint I have with both of these (really any university) is the wait times. My old ppl instructor from a 61 school went to liberty, was waitlisted twice. I myself go to bgsu. Have been waitlisted once, and have to wait weeks for a stage check.
It’s good quality training, but be prepared going to any university that you may experience this.
SpiritFlight404@reddit
Edited: Liberty is correct.
PitotHeatC172@reddit
As a current Bridgewater student, expect a severe lack of communication and scheduling issues. They recently let their authorization to conduct stage checks lapse which caused months of delays for students. My flight instructor moved to the airlines 6 months ago and I have yet to be assigned a new instructor.
RavenholdIV@reddit
I keep hearing that they're hiring CFIs and buying new planes. Usually I totally ignore such promises from big organizations as garbage but a new plane has already shown up.
Normal_Television_20@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the heads up. Do you still recommend the school or would you recommend going to an external local flight school?
PitotHeatC172@reddit
The academic classes were great, but the flight school has a lot of problems. If I were to do it again I would major in aviation management at Bridgewater and do flight training at a local school.
Better-Radish-5757@reddit
Graduating with no debt is always better than graduating from a prestigious school with +$100k of debt. Debt limits what you can do and how you analyze offers that come your way.
Anthem00@reddit
“Prestige” of embry riddle ? That’s like an oxymoron in and of itself. “Accepted” ? And probably even with a “scholarship” as that’s what they do to lure you in. You can essentially get in to embry riddle if you can arrange payment. It’s not difficult or prestigious. Prestigious is in the top 25 us news schools. Tell me you got in to one of those and that’s prestigious (ivy’s, Stanford, ucla:Berkeley, Vanderbilt, Duke, uva, etc etc. that’s prestigious.
SnooCupcakes1514@reddit
As someone who went to one of those schools... It never came up. In the airline industry, they provide the same thing as podunk state: a degree and a checked box.
SnooCupcakes1514@reddit
As someone who went to one of those schools... It never came up. In the airline industry, they provide the same thing as podunk state: a degree and a checked box.
___buttrdish@reddit
go to the one you can afford
Mediocre-Trash-7597@reddit
A couple of points. DEI is dead. Or, at least it’s being shown the door. Pilots, or at least the majority of the future ones are going to be hired based on merit.
Secondly, the day and age of requiring a 4 year degree is over. It will be preferred at best. Therefore, get a degree at a college that will get you a backup plan.
Note: 8% of pilots never hit age 65. At least a 1/4 or more will be on LTD sometime in their career. Take it from someone who was on LTD for 3 years. Your flight experience qualifications don’t transfer well to another high paying career.
Expect it, count on it, bank on it. Another downturn is coming. I was at UAL for 37 years and I’ve seen many an upheaval.
AI is coming, how initially will you see it. Super long haul. Not FRMS , will go from 4 pilots to 3. Bank on it. That’s a huge reduction in force.
Single pilot commuters are coming. Many based on route length or based on density and complexity of the airport your flying to. But it’s coming. Seriously, do you need 2 pilots to fly into Tulsa. But LGA, absolutely.
Aviation is changing. Age 67 will eventually come back to the table. But this time the overall selfish pilot group will be younger. Therefore, pilots will stay longer. Therefore, your career prospects will change.
Yes, being a pilot right now is great. But back in the mid 80’s , at least for me, it was $28/hour when you flew. Don’t count on it always being so lucrative.
Lastly, the 1st class medical hasn’t changed for decades. Do you really think it will get easier or harder. Personally, I expect yearly blood panel submissions. Hey buddy, I see your liver enzymes are elevated. I see your blood sugars are pre diabetes.
I talked both my kids out of aviation. Find a career where you can stay home and watch your kids grow and mature. Versus, sitting in a hotel in Kansas City.
ABillingMachine@reddit
My son applied to BSU. We loved it and wanted him to go there. When we met with the Dean, they told us that there was no guarantee that he would fly in his first year because they had too few CFIs. When we met with an aviation student, he concurred, noting that he had to do an extra year to complete his training. He also noted that they only had 3 working planes and that the airport was 40 minutes from campus. He also noted that New England weather means lots of flight cancellations. My son is now at Lynn University in Boca Raton, FL. He flew the first day of school. Lynn has nearly 30 instructors and 12 planes located less than a mile from campus. He absolutely loves it. And they offered great aid and grants. My son soloed 2 weeks ago and passed his FAA written last week. We have a cousin who is in his second year at ER who has had some challenges with flight time. Bottom line: we lived the price/convenience of BSU, but are thrilled with the program at Lynn U!
Tough-Ad3664@reddit
I would personally go for engineering while doing part 61 at a local airport. That way you have something to fall back on- medical issues etc.
BuzzTheTower12@reddit
I got into Bridgewater State as well, and I toured the school. I didn’t end up attending, because I chose to do part 61 for my whole training, but it’s a good school, and I know someone who is in their flight program. From what I’ve read, they are a bit limited in terms of aircraft availability though.
ltcterry@reddit
With Private done OP *should* have less difficulty flying. One hopes.
ltcterry@reddit
Why would you pay $350,000 for something you can get for $100k?
Who says any program is good or better than another? Does your certificate say "more good-er graduate" on it? No one cares.
If you must do a BS program, at least make in state rather than private or out of state.
The only ERAU flight graduate I know well is one of the least professional pilots I know. I also know an ERAU grad who did all his flying elsewhere and is really quite professional. And the military paid for his ERAU tuition.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
u/dash_trash's true feeling on Embry-Riddle
A_Squid_A_Dog@reddit
Was gonna post this
doorbell2021@reddit
For a fraction of the difference in costs, you can buy yourself a lot of hours of experience, or be able to afford a lower paying job to get those hours. There is very little chance you can end up financially ahead going to ERAU.
SparkySpecter@reddit
Absolutely nobody cares what school you went to. Except those the went to Embry and want others to pat them on the back and give them a thumbs up.
Helpful_Corn-@reddit
Makes sense in kind of a circular way when they realize that that's likely the only advantage they'll get from it.
run264fun@reddit
I think going to one of those schools 30 years ago made a huge difference, but today apparently it’s not a big deal as it once was.
willfibs@reddit
Go to Bridgewater.
Tisx@reddit
Riddle student here, 3 basic guidelines if you want to come here
You are utterly obsessed with flying
You have someone paying for you to go to school here/you are willing to go into serious debt
ROTC
I'd recommend you have at least 2 of these before considering going to Riddle
Don't go to riddle for the piece of paper, an Aeronautical science degree is worth fuck all, You go to Riddle for the opportunities it gives, not for the piece of paper.
These opportunities are things that will actually make your resume stick out a bit or help pay for flight training a few examples
The Flight Team: If you make it onto the flight team here and get selected to fly early on you can get your standard ATP mins by the time you graduate basically for free, no CFI required, also being in the Flight team is a bit of a eye brow raiser for pilot recruiters (at least the ones I asked, speaking of which)
Easier time getting into pathway/cadet programs: United Aviate requirements nowadays is being a CFI then being flown out to Colorado for an interview. For Riddle they came to us, and allowed people with just a PPL to apply, some of who got accepted into the program. Also getting directly in touch with some regionals is somewhat easier at Riddle then outside.
Aviation Honor societies: Alpha Omicron Alpha is the main aviation honor society here, while I personally im not a member, these guys have direct connections to a utter truckload of career pilots, meaning theres a huge amount of nepotism at play for these guys, almost all of them are flying airliners within 2 years of graduating regardless of what the industry is doing at time (Source several friends who are in AOA)
Letters of Recommendations from people in the industry: A good amount of the professors here are ex-airline, and know what wording to use to get you a little farther then other letter.
The Flight training: Is alright, nothing that really stands out, if you don't like your instructor you can just get a new one quickly. Checkrides come quick and use standard instructor pay rate (75hr) vs $1000 DPE for most checkrides except commercial (Riddle has its own DPEs though so even those only have about a month wait tops). The big thing the flight department teaches you is how to deal with the bullshit that is the aviation industry.
TL:DR; Look at the 3 reasons above, ERAU worth is not in the piece of paper or the flight department. Its worth is you taking the opportunities that it offers to get you into the aviation industry easier and quicker compared to ma and pa 141 school.
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
As a Riddle grad....stay away. I can't speak to Bridgewater's training, but if it's a large enough program (which it probably is if it has a flight program) you'll make plenty of connections and be set up to pursue your career after graduating without an absolutely massive load of debt.
Normal_Television_20@reddit (OP)
Thanks! It’s a relief to hear that honestly I really didn’t want to be in hundreds of thousands of debt getting out of college
Prof_Slappopotamus@reddit
Do your research. There's tons of programs other than ERAU, UND, and Perdue all for various costs. I don't believe the "name recognition" is worth it, and based on personal experience I know the quality of the education is not significantly better than those other programs. There's little bits and pieces that make airline training "easier" by going through Riddle, but it's really only saving you, at best, a couple hours of self study. Things like flows, checklist usage, knowing how to study as opposed to overstudying...but even that can and is taught at other places.
Just make sure you're going to a safe, accredited school. If you have to take out a slightly bigger loan to go to a different school, that's between you and your wallet.
Mun0425@reddit
So… youre a riddler
waveslikemoses@reddit
Bridgewater isn’t the best for a couple of reasons, but if it means free tuition then I’m going there lol
Jon8502@reddit
2018 Riddle Prescott grad, 3 year CFI, 2 year check pilot. You can get your ratings significantly quicker and less expensive somewhere else. Sure the training is pretty good, but not good enough to make much of a difference. If I have to say one nice thing about the place, it's that their maintenance on their aircraft while I was there was really good.
Get your ratings somewhere else quicker and cheaper, and get your degree in something actually useful. Don't be baited by the allure of a restricted ATP (your hour minimum is lower to go to the airlines) because they're probably not going to hire you at minimums anyways. DM me if you have any questions, always happy to help
YaYeetMySkeet@reddit
Depends, in state tuition or out of state? There’s plenty of 121 schools to choose other than embry riddle. If you’re already worried about expenses, embry riddle is not for you. You’re gonna be more worried about finances than your school work/certificates. A handful of universities, even if you don’t live in the state, may still offer in state tuition.
I toured a handful of universities, Riddle is nice, but with the expense and campus life being all aviation, I’m happy I chose somewhere else
Designer_Solid4271@reddit
Just my $0.02 worth here. Skip going to college if you're going to have to take out loans and just go to flight school. The airlines don't require a degree at the moment, so the degree is an added cost. Get through flight training as fast as possible to get to the airlines and then pay for college as you go.
I don't know exactly how the flight training financing works around going through a program like ER, but if it's a tacked on expense it just adds to your debt load.
Basically you want the fastest path to making money possible- if you want a degree after that, pay as you go.
ApatheticSkyentist@reddit
I went to UND and really like it. It's cheaper than Riddle but certainly more expensive than a mom n pop flight school.
Was it worth it? That's a tough question. I wanted a degree and my ratings and at the time I was interested in unmanned aviation and UND checked all those boxes. My UND diploma has never gotten me a job but its certainly been a source of connections and a conversation starter with potential employers. It's come up in interviews in the context of the person interviewing me having either gone to UND or having kids at UND. Never an, "omg you went to UND please let me hire you!".
I can't comment on Bridge but I don't think I hear enough good about Riddle to justify the cost.
dmkvol23@reddit
Go wherever is cheaper. Which is definitely not Embry Riddle.
VirvekRBX@reddit
I cannot agree more with this.
PILOT9000@reddit
How do you plan on paying the student loan payments after graduation?
Normal_Television_20@reddit (OP)
Honestly don’t have a plan. Just pay it off in increments. Hearing everyone’s advice i’m definitely leaning more towards bridgewater. Free tuition, a good program and still a ton of connections. Sounds much better to me
PILOT9000@reddit
It’s hard to pay it off in increment when the payments are more than your entire monthly income for several years.
I agree about Bridgewater. I don’t know anything about their program, but financially it’s by far the better option.
Altruistic-Cod1330@reddit
At the end of the day, you’ll be an embry riddle grad, sitting right seat to a guy that trained at Joe’s flight school. Just get your cert and ratings. Hell, I wouldn’t even advise going the college route.
OpheliaWitchQueen@reddit
I think going to college at Bridgewater is not a bad idea, especially since the tuition is free in this case and it's close to home.
MTBandGravel@reddit
Bridgewater for sure, but I’d suggest majoring in something else and flying at the local FBO flight school.
PILOT9000@reddit
Why not go to your local community college or state university for an almost free bachelor degree in whatever interests you, and get your pilot certificate from a local flight school for a fraction of the price? There is zero benefit to Riddle, only massive amounts of unnecessary crippling debt.
Aggressive_Staff_982@reddit
I would not got to college for flight training. Not only is it outrageously more expensive than what you'd find at a Part 61 school, it also gives you no alternatives should flying not work out for you. Go to a state school. Start with community college to make it even cheaper. Major in something that is marketable and always in demand. Then get into flight training. That way you'd have a backup career in case something happens.
discgolfpilot@reddit
Like others have said but your licenses and ratings are the same no matter what. Same check ride.
Jewishtrain105@reddit
Riddle as a college is solid. As a flight school, not so much. They have admitted too many Aeronautical Science students meaning there’s long wait times for everything. It’s a multi day wait for anything of importance done, especially with the end of course items. Unlike for example, everything has to go through and be approved by multiple people, like needing to cancel if you’re sick. It doesn’t seem like you’re in charge of your training. You’re at the mercy of the flight department most of the time.
If money is no object, and time is not a concern yeah it can be a decent program but at the end of the day everyone will get the same plastic card.
If you still want to go to riddle for the degree but don’t want to fly through them, there is an alternative degree program which allows that. It’s Aeronautics. It’s basically the same as AS but without the flight which allows you to get your ratings anywhere else. This does come at the cost of the rATP though.
WhiteoutDota@reddit
Go to university for free to get a degree in something NOT aviation (unless you're military). Then go to any number of the airports within an hour drive, find a part 61 flight school, and train with them. Faster, higher quality training, more flexibility, the same ratings... there's no downside to going to a mom and pop shop unless you need GI bill funding.
OddContext9585@reddit
Having your private coming into riddle will save you tons but still a lot of money to train. I just left to finish my commercial somewhere else from riddle because of how expensive it is.
phatRV@reddit
How do you quantify the quality of Embry-RIddle? From experience, I rather work with an engineer from UCLA. An Embry graduate is more apt to produce excellent powerpoint presentation but can't do much of anything else.
Burgershot621@reddit
Go to bridgewater
iamflyipilot@reddit
Only consider Riddle if you can pay for it out of pocket and its not “your” money.
dylan_hawley@reddit
You shouldn’t go to a college for flying, huge waste of time and money
MachTuk99@reddit
Not @ Riddle. Please don’t fall into the “not only do I need a degree for a field that doesnt explicitly require it, I need one from a college that cost twice as much” trap. I’ve got the degree (thanks GPT), but happy I didn’t spend a lot since nobody ever asked for it.
SeatPrize7127@reddit
Bridgewater hands down. There isn't prestige of going to Embry Riddle as it won't help when you're applying to whichever airline. Save the cheddar.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I’m in a predicament and I need some advice.
I was recently accepted into Embry-Riddle’s Aeronautical Science program, which i’m so excited about knowing how good the program is. The thing is, the program is really expensive with tuition and flight training and I need every license except my private. I was also accepted into Bridgewater State University, which I know is less prestigious but tuition would be free I would only need to cover training. It’s also really close to home, I might be able to commute.
When i’m looking into getting to the airlines, would it be a big difference if i’m coming from Bridgewater or Embry-Riddle? Is getting into debt really worth it? I’m a woman and come from a long line of pilots, i’m not sure if that would make a difference either but I figured i’d mention. Thank you!
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