Upgraded CPU and now games FPS is worse
Posted by soggymonkey1011@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 147 comments
Hello everyone,
I have just replaced my Intel 12400 with a 14600k and my games are getting worse fps in some games like Cyberpunk 2077 where before it would hover around 100-120fps and is now struggling to even hit 60. It usually hovers at 45-55 fps. In Rocket League it capped at the same 240 fps as the 12400 did but this is a much lighter game.
I Ran the Cinebench 2024 scores on the 14600k only and got 1140 under multicore and 117 pts under single core. The GPU score was 26562 pts.
CPU temps during testing hovered below 85.
What gives? Why is my new CPU performing much worse in games?
My hardware is the following:
GPU - 4080 super
CPU - 14600K
MOBO - asrock h670m itx
RAM - Crucial 32gb DDR$ 3200MHz
Please let me know if any other info or hardware specs are needed. Happy to hash this out. Thanks in advance!
Rich_Ad7325@reddit
What a great moment to read it, when my friends ordered me a 14600kf few days ago for my birthday. I'm praying that it will be normal in my case
itchygentleman@reddit
Did you reinstall windows?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I did not. Probably worth a go ill keep this updated
MrNiiCeGuY420@reddit
Yeah from my understanding windows doesn’t play nice with new CPU’s
HankHippoppopalous@reddit
This isn't true at all. Motherboards sure. But CPU and RAM don't need a reinstall.
No_Echidna5178@reddit
Most cases but chipset driver can be buggy. And lot of times have seen a simple reinstall solve these issues .
Skafek1337@reddit
Yup. I had to reinstall my windows after both - CPU and GPU switch. It just did not perform as well as it should. That's why I've started recommening everyone a simple windows clean install whenever they change not only mobo but those two as well
truthputer@reddit
There was literally a problem with the Windows system drivers with AMD's X3D chips that caused incorrect core parking if you didn't do a fresh install of Windows when you upgraded to those chips. When the previous X3D chips released a bunch of reviewers got very confused when they had inconsistent benchmark results before they figured out what was going on.
Plenty-Industries@reddit
The issue of core parking for dual CCD X3D CPU's was because the 3D-Vcache service wasn't running properly.
A complete reformat was initially recommended by AMD (and I think still is), but has been shown to be easily fixed by just using Revo Uninstaller to remove the AMD Chipset drivers and then just install the latest version.
As shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wdQpVcL_a4
Saneless@reddit
Maybe back in the windows 90s versions
I went from a Celeron to Ryzen without reinstalling just to see if it would be fine and it was. New MB and everything. It's fine. And upgraded the ryzen a couple times on the same install.
Coady54@reddit
Anecdotal evidence isn't valid. It doesn't always cause an issue, but it can cause issues a lot of the time, which is why it's still recommended to do a clean install when swapping CPU and MoBo. You happened to be fine, OP might not be as lucky.
Stargate_1@reddit
If you are not on it yet, you definitely want Windows 11
Your old CPU did not have E and P Cores, so if ur still on Windows 10 that would explain the problems
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Very true, I am on Windows 11
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Update: Clean install and seems to be the same results unfortunately
Milam1996@reddit
What cooler are you using? The 14600k is HOT you could quite easily be thermal throttling so bad that it’s knocking you down to a 5 year old CPU. What’s the temps?
Unicorn_puke@reddit
Yep. Have a deep cool ak620 that's rated for 200 or 250w and i am usually 60-70 during gaming, but cinebench multi-core i peak at 85-90 with 99% load.
For a 125w chip it is thirsty and hot
RoyBellingan@reddit
125W is a random number intel felt to write over it, it has no correlation with reality
Unicorn_puke@reddit
I mean you can set it in the bios to only run at 125w with no boost and it might be stable, but i doubt it. They're drunk on power consumption
Skafek1337@reddit
Or you can just undervolt it by 0.125 and get rid of 0.2GHz so it runs over 20°C cooler and takes less than 140w instead of 200w. Performance wise no big difference. I would even say that by a small margin it works better than before and my cooler doesn't have to kill itself.
Fire_Fenix@reddit
Ak620 can't not cool a 250w CPU underload for more than 2 minutes, it gets Saturated in 0 times.
The only reason why you think that can do it it's because the CPU is throttling, making you believe that it can cool correctly.
There are plenty of benchmarks showings are coolers struggling hard at 160-180w
If you look at professional tester in YouTube you will find why people buy AIO or water to cool their power CPUs
Unicorn_puke@reddit
Oh i definitely wouldn't trust it under workload for anything higher
Fire_Fenix@reddit
Also the 14600k underload is a 180w CPU close to the 9950x and similar AMD CPUs...
125w is just the base TDP without boost
Unicorn_puke@reddit
Yep mine peaks at 181 at full core boost. But it stays at about 85⁰; idle it sits at 35⁰. So that would be the max I'd trust that cooler with. I've even upgraded the fans to move more air through because it was throttling after a bit on max rendering load
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Good point! Im using the 120mm AIO that came in the cooler master Ncore 100 max. It is surprisingly efficient being a 120mm and all. I have not seen temps over 85 yet. Gamersnexus had a similar outcome with the CPU in their case review, temps were fine
RChamy@reddit
I once had this client that told his 120mm never went beyond 74c on its display.
It was because the CPU was killing boost clock to cool down all the time.
coatimundislover@reddit
That’s not intended behavior. Modern CPUs will always boost to tjmax.
RChamy@reddit
On HWinfo64 where it updated much faster than the LCD screen, the CPU kept trying to boost, hitting tjmax immediately, going back to stock speed, waiting a few seconds cold, then turning on boost again to tjmax.. Ryzen 5700x3d.
cumbrad@reddit
120mm aio is plenty of cooling for a 5700x3D, either user error or something is wrong with the aio
coatimundislover@reddit
I’m not familiar with zen 3 X3D but normal zen 3 just hits tjmax and stays there.
RChamy@reddit
My 5800x/6800h same thing. Maybe its the motherboard?
pabloscrosati@reddit
Fast throttle will do that. TVB and other adaptive boost features also consider temperature. You can still downclock before hitting 100 C, and may end up keeping temps in check while also tanking performance.
Fire_Fenix@reddit
Use hwinfo when running tests check frequencies...
Intel CPU utility can also tell you when the CPU throttled
120mm AIO are even worse than air coolers honestly...
EfficientMinimum5696@reddit
A 120mm AIO is not even close to the cooking you need for the K chips, let alone a 14th gen. You’d need a 280 at minimum a 360mm is recommended for it. This would explain your FPS,you are thermal throttling.
Cyber_Akuma@reddit
As many others have said, that's not enough for a 14600K and it's clearly throttling, that's why the 85C. You never said what kind of case you have. Is this some small form factor case where you cannot fit a cooler larger than that? If not I highly recommend upgrading the cooler.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Fair, I'm using the 120mm AIO that came in pre-installed with the cooler master Ncore 100 max. I agree about the 120mm, this is a custom-ish 120mm. With that being said, reason I upgraded to this CPU was due to Gamersnexus saying the 120mm on the Ncore 100 max keeps up with temps and able to cool it sufficiently. In his tests with the 13600K, temps were fine
Megneous@reddit
I'd bet my money that that's the problem. You're maintaining 85 degree temps because the CPU is throttling itself all the time to maintain temps. 120mm AIOs are simply not big enough for a 14600K.
quiet_pastafarian@reddit
120 is nowhere close to being able to handle a 14600k.
You want a triple if you can make it fit. Otherwise, consider a double or a Noctua.
Fast-Shallot2417@reddit
Purely regarding the temps, I recommend getting a contact frame, I have a 13600KF air cooled with some basic cooler and I went from 86-87 degrees in R23 to 74-75 just for that.
About your limited performance, I don't know
f1rstx@reddit
120 AIO is the issue
ItchySackError404@reddit
Welp there's your problem. 120mm AIO isn't enough for that cpu
DontKnowHowToEnglish@reddit
120mm AIO are notoriously bad and aren't recommended unless you're doing SFF, those 85° are maintained while having boost clocks and wattage as expected?
Coldspiff@reddit
Correct me if i am wrong but doesnt 14th Gen run on DDR5 ? It seemed like OP is using DDR4 Ram and not DDR5 , same goes for the MOBO maybe. (Disclaimer this was off the top of my head , i did not check out what hardware OP is running)
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
14th gen does support DDR4 up to 3200MT/s. Its a good thought, I wonder if it is still acting as a crutch vs DDR5
d3facult_@reddit
You can go a lot higher ran 3200 on ddr4, im running 4133 with 4 dimms
GodOfBowl@reddit
Yep. I'do a RAM swap for a DDR5 6000 Mts
Drain___Bamaged@reddit
That would mean new mobo too
GodOfBowl@reddit
Oh wait right the processor supports both DDR5 and DDR4 but the mobo doesn't. Mb
Drain___Bamaged@reddit
Yee, the slots are actually a little different so you don't accidently put ddr5 in it
Asura177@reddit
That's the first thing I noticed too lmao
Soggy_Seesaw3682@reddit
Could be the way the thermal paste was applied, that’s what happened to me once
Byte_Ryder23@reddit
What are your PL1/PL2 settings? My mobo was defaulting to 400w which is uhh fucking crazy. Was thermal throttling
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Oh dang. You will have to help me here, how do I check this? Not real sure what PL1/2 are
Byte_Ryder23@reddit
It's probably best to go on YouTube and look for your mobo model. That's more or less how I found it for my asus. PL is power limit I think. Basically your cpu manufacturer has published recommended values for those two settings. It controls maximum power draw by the CPU when under load.
rastafaraj_warrior@reddit
Can you check which profile is set in your BIOS? Link for reference: https://www.asrock.com/support/faq.asp?id=535 The “fix” that intel provided for 13/14 gen with microcode update is affecting CPU performance a lot and I was so pissed off when I found out that intel default profile on my Asus mobo with 13600K totally fucked up FarCry 4, the game was a slideshow in the menus and FPS dropping under 60, stutterfest all over the place. Setting the profile back to Asus Advanced OC Profile fixed it instantly. Try switching between two profiles provided by Intel and see if there will be any difference…
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Dude this absolutely seems to play a part! Turned it on and the lowest fps I've seen on cyberpunk now is 80. Huge bump in performance, your right, "fix" seems to be a limp mode. Great call!
countpuchi@reddit
The fix is to prevent you from having no cpu later on.
Though id reckon you should already know about that. But yeah.....
AirHertz@reddit
Then what is the point of getting anything (in 13th and 14th gen) above a 13400 or 14400. Does the "fix" actually make the thing perform worse?
Anyways, glad i switched and went 7800x3d instead after the whole self cooking intel issues.
yaboku98@reddit
Careful, the "fix" isn't there for fun. 13th and 14th gen are plagued by instability issues that come from stupidly fast degradation. The "fix" profile seems to slow it down, or so Intel says.
Maybe you'll get lucky, or maybe you'll be back in 6 months asking why your PC is crashing all the time. No one can know until it happens
habibiiiiiii@reddit
Does this affect all 13/14th gen mobos? And did Intel end up releasing the fix for 13th gen too and not just 14th? Thanks for the info
Prestigious_Ant_4608@reddit
Just do manual overclock. Even 10years ago i manually did this and never ever my cpu got cooked by "smart voltage" 100guides on internet.
Capable-Chicken-2348@reddit
This is a decent idea, it's called undercoating, and done right it is much better than letting Asus of mso blast as much voltage for any cho through your CPU so they score higher scores.
ficklampa@reddit
Windows 10 or 11?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I'm on 11
Max_xzs@reddit
Maybe your MOBO couldn’t handle 14th gen that well? My mobo is 14 gen compatible but i couldn’t utilize it at 100% especially if you went from gen 12
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I'm thinking this is it unfortunately. The vrm probably aren't able to fully supply the 14600
Max_xzs@reddit
I wanted to do such a dumb thing as well, but my friend told me about it, so im waiting for z790 to be on a sale
Bagafeet@reddit
My brotha if you a gamer the X3D cpus are right there. Going with Intel sure is a choice at this moment in time.
Stein42069@reddit
A 125w cap sounds like this "Intel baseline" profile or how it's called that was released by intel when the whole 14900k's failing thing became big.
I'm pretty sure the board limits the power draw via some setting. I would think the power draw would fluctuate more when VRMs are overheating.
If I were you I'd research how to adjust power limits and see if that makes a difference. If yes and the results are satisfactory look into undervolting next because if it's consuming 60w more that thing will get hotter under full load than those 85°C I'd imagine.
All that said the fps behaviour you've mentioned is very odd. Even capped at 125w I wouldn't expect performance to drop that much.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Yeah good thinking, I'll look into adjusting power limits
PotatoMonster1010@reddit
Whats your VRM MOS temp in hwinfo? Try holding a fan in front of the vrm while running cinebench. If that helps, you could try improving the airflow over the VRM heatsinks.
Only_Lie4664@reddit
There’s Intel for you, hope your 14600K doesn’t have an already defective voltage regulator to begin with, happened to one of my 13900KS so I had to return it.
PiersPlays@reddit
It seems more likely to be an issue related to the mitigations than an indicator that it's running too hot imo.
Only_Lie4664@reddit
I'm saying he might have a defective CPU to begin with, a Vmin shift that can't be fixed by bios updates/microcode injections. One of my 13900KS would only post at 1.62V without blue screening and dram can only run at 2133mhz with D4, can't go above that. My current one runs at 1.59V with no issues for 4x8g 3600Mhz C14 ram running overnight memtest. There are just 13-14th gen CPUs out there defect out of box and even Intel has acknowledged that
crakage@reddit
Check if the bios was not reset, ram profile ect. Also check the advanced graphic settings of windows to check if it did not put you back at 60
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Checked all these things and all seems to be in order
JaMStraberry@reddit
Did you fresh install the operating system? If not, then try it.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I did yes, it seems to be acting just as before unfortunately
vjhc@reddit
Check hwinfo and see if there's a VR Thermal Alert under load, maybe the mobo's VRMs are not enough for the 14600k.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I do believe this is the right line of thought. The mobo is rated for 125W. Dont think it would be able to sustain the 181W boost of the 14600k. But even then would it be hindering the performance that badly?
vjhc@reddit
When there's VRM Throttling the CPU usually falls to Base Frequency, that's 3.5 GHz for the P-Cores and 2.6 GHz for the E-Cores, a big hit, most games depend heavily on single thread performance. So yes, it could be hindering performance that badly, if you confirm it is indeed a VRM issue, try to undervolt and see if that helps.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Thanks for this! Yeah I'll try a undervolt and see where that gets me
BadAdviceAI@reddit
Could be a defective Intel cpu.
basement-thug@reddit
Should have got a 7800x3d
basedfrosti@reddit
Hindsight is 20/20 and doesnt help op.
basement-thug@reddit
They said they "just replaced" it, figure there's still time to swap to a better choice. Whatever..
f1rstx@reddit
Amd bots with 7800x3d advices are always amusing
basement-thug@reddit
Really? I'm just a guy who bought it and knows it's demonstrably a better choice than the known defective Intel cpu's. You wish I was a bot lol
ZaniacPrime_@reddit
They obviously wanted to keep their current board and ram, it was a valid upgrade
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
This was the exact reason
angryoctopode@reddit
I don't really have any context for Cinebench 2024 scores to know if those are expected. But I'll ask the obvious question, when you put it all back together did you remember to plug the monitor into the GPU instead of the mobo?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
For sure, I did end up running Cinebench R23 as well. Multithread was 21660 pts and single core was 1962 pts. And I did plug the monitor into the GPU
angryoctopode@reddit
That multi core score seems a bit low for your CPU, but not like, astonishingly low. For reference my 13700kf hits 31000 multi core and 2200 single core.
You might want to try HWInfo to monitor temps and power and stuff while running Cinebench or a game to see if the CPU is getting overly hot, running weirdly low clocks, or using very little power. And I'd check GPU stats while you're at it, we can't 100% rule that out.
I'm wondering if your CPU is hitting power limits that might've been set too low. But I'd be surprised if that's causing degraded game performance. Very few games will max out your CPU.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
While running Cyberpunk . The cpu doesnt cross over 125W. Its sitting about 50% usage. Im not too familiar when boosting kicks in for the CPU but my mobo is rated to deliver 125W power to the CPU. Wonder if I am running up against a VRM issue. Even then I wouldn't think it would cause this big of a performance hit.
CPU temps sit below 85, usually about 70-75
NoPersonality3148@reddit
How much power is the cpu using? What clocks is it running? This is probably a stretch but the vrm on your motherboard might be too weak for the 14600k
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Whoa, I think you are onto something! It does not seem to be going above 125W. I believe the 14600k can boost to 181W but the average during cinebench was 125W. The same 125W was peak for testing in Cyberpunk 2077. How could I make sure this is the issue?
NoPersonality3148@reddit
I’m not too sure but you can use hwinfo to check vrm temps. It should be labeled “vrm mos” or something along the lines of “temp 1,2,3..”. Below 90c is considered safe. You can also try undervolting your cpu through bios or XTU if your motherboard allows.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Looking at hwinfo and doesn't look like my asrock h670m itx has a vrm sensor so outside of physical contact I can't measure the temp. I'll look into if I can undervolt though
NoPersonality3148@reddit
Damn I would’ve thought yours had a sensor. My gigabyte h610m has one. Hopefully undervolting works or you figure something else out that works. Good luck!
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Thank you and appreciate your help with this! Think we're on the right path. God bless you man!
AssFasting@reddit
My 14700K undervoted, power limited and decloaked gets 34k plus in R23 on air, something very wrong here.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
This was Cinebench 2024. Out of curiosity, have you benched you CPU with Cinebench 2024, would be curious to know the score there
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Update: just did Cinebench R23. Multithread was 21660 pts and single core was 1962 pts
AssFasting@reddit
Definitely losing a bit, should be getting around 25k. https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/intel-core-i7-14700k-vs-intel-core-i5-14600k
IpaBega@reddit
Has to be one of degradation problems Shittel fucked up with 13th and 14th gen.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
May have to RMA it...
jakub-_@reddit
I would start with a system reset and see if that helps. It at least lowers the number of troubleshooting variables with something like this. Worst case it could just be a defective but I did notice those temps are really high. What kind of cooler do you have?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Its only a 120mm AIO thats custom to the case Coolermaster Ncore 100 max. Gamersnexus reviewed that case and cooler with a 13600K and said it was enough to cool the CPU. That is why I upgraded to the 14600K. A system reset may not be a bad idea
Appropriate-Low-9582@reddit
Get a better aio for your processor and enable that fix unless you want your processor to have a premature death.
hypnotickaleidoscope@reddit
The issue is you bought an Intel CPU.
orion8477@reddit
Try to reinstall graphics driver and make sure you remove them firstly
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Done, seems to be running the same. The thought is good
Legndarystig@reddit
Are you playing in 4k or 1440p or 1080p? If you are playing now on 4k it makes sense why you are barely hitting 50 to 60fps. You need some serious horsepower and the 4090 barely gets 90 fps at times for 4k.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I'm running 1440p ultrawide. Its a good point that maybe there shouldn't be a big bump in performance but I would have thought going from 12400 to 14600k would have offered something.
Legndarystig@reddit
Check your ingame settings on what your resolution your playing on.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Its set to 3440x1440p in cyberpunk
Legndarystig@reddit
Okay I’m stumped try clean installing graphic drivers. I don’t think the issue here is your hardware somewhere its software
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Did a clean install on the graphic drivers and it seems to be running the same
SplendaDaddyDan@reddit
Did you do a clean install of windows when you upgraded?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I ended up doing a clean install after it had been installed and seem to be getting the same results as before unfortunately
kidmakeswaves@reddit
Did you remove the clear sticker on the bottom of the cooler where it interfaces with the cpu?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I did yes
toast_fatigue@reddit
Drivers updated with the install?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
They are, yes
sp668@reddit
Is xmp enabled for your ram? It probably reset when you changed and it makes a big difference.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
It did appear to be on still, to be safe I disabled and then enabled it. It seems to be acting the same
tomzzed@reddit
What’s your ram clocked at in BIOS and also did you enable XMP? BIOS tends to reset all your settings when you update it.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
It appeared XMP was still enabled but I just turned it off and back on again. Its at 3200MHz and seems to be acting the same as before
NicksTechTricks@reddit
Came here to say this. XMP will be disabled if you change the CPU.
Hungry-Application51@reddit
I would run a Cinebench r23 test and re-check everything mentionned here. Especially, temps, wattage and amps. Look at your clock speeds to see what's happening.
I had a 13900k wich was slow down by the microcode update and i had to tweak some settings to be able to go back to my previous performance (still within the Intel guidelines)
Gimp_Ninja@reddit
You remembered thermal paste?
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I did haha, thanks for double checking
Gimp_Ninja@reddit
RAM XMP profile didn't reset to JEDEC standard? I've had that one happen before.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Oh! Just checked and they are still at 3200MHz
Hungry-Application51@reddit
Did you check your temps ? If not, download HWinfo and locate the cores temps and the clock speeds.
You should be able to determine if the cpu is thermal throttling under load. You could also check (in HWinfo) what wattage the cpu consume and how many amps.
I had a 13900k and to be honest, i had to tweak the bios a lot after the microcode update because performance were really poor compared to before.
LordMuzhy@reddit
This is what happens when you go with intel, Intel sucks bro. Get AMD
WillGetBannedSoonn@reddit
YouTube shorts brainrot
payagathanow@reddit
Oh ffs that's a garbage response.
JPSurratt2005@reddit
Did you plug in the CPU power cables? Sometimes people forget those and the CPU fails to boost correctly.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I will have to double-check this but I am fairly certain that I did this when putting it back together.
Unicorn_puke@reddit
What's your PSU? I have that cpu and a 3060. According to wattage I'm fine with a 650w psu, but I had one and went to an 850 and saw a boost. By a few hundred points in cinebench as well as more stable frames in games.
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
My PSU is a Cooler Master V SFX Gold 850W. Upgraded from a 650W when I got the 4080 super for the same reason you mentioned
Unicorn_puke@reddit
I'd check that bios is updated to the latest. I know that with the updates to save the 14700 and 14900 from bricking there was a decrease one to slow them at first and then a safely boosted update came a bit after. You might be on the slowed bios update still
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
For sure. I updated to the latest bios before the new CPU came to make sure it was stable
Interesting-Eye-1615@reddit
Try updating bios
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
I updated the bios to the latest version before the new CPU arrived to get ahead of the microcode issue
AejiGamez@reddit
did you update the BIOS? If not, do that
soggymonkey1011@reddit (OP)
Yes sorry forgot to include this in the description. It was updated to the latest version 19.01 before I got the new CPU