GM software boss: we have ‘high conviction’ ditching CarPlay is the right path
Posted by ukcats12@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 774 comments
Posted by ukcats12@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 774 comments
aldiefarm@reddit
Here's a reason we can't live without android auto...show me how to load a map with 20 Stops from my computer to my car screen with their stupid car interface I'll take it without android auto.
Accurate-Expert1636@reddit
I walked away from a deal with my local Chevy dealer because of the absence of support of android auto. I am a retired person and I am not looking forward to a subscription Service I would barely use I presently have 2 vehicles (2017 KIA SORENTO and 2018 Chevy Bolt) and was looking forward to consolidating both vehicles into one. Neither is driven very much (KIA only has around 8,000 miles and the Bolt around 18,000). It is amazing how few miles you actually drive when you are not doing a daily commute to your job. Anyway, I have Google Home for my speakers in the house, the music I play, the lights both indoors and outdoors, etc.. ALL OF THIS FREE when you buy compatible products. I don't think GM appreciates how invasive Google products have become inside the house as well as the vehicles. And it is all free! I'm still looking for a new vehicle but it will not be GM product.
herrmann0319@reddit
This just defies common sense. Will it have the App and Play Store installed on it? Then fine. If not, which obviously it won't, worst idea in the history of car making.
If the software is so great, then people will decide to use it, but at least give your customers a choice.
It's a snobby move and will be a dealbreaker for almost anyone familiar with carplay and/or AA.
Intentionally deciding to limit MY choice and I'm buying YOUR car?
Whoever is the decision maker for this move should be fired. It's not a gamble. It's an obvious fail!
What do you guys think is clouding this person's judgment so badly? Their ego?
g-4-ces@reddit
Here’s the issue. I like CarPlay and want it.
Lost_Result5686@reddit
For a few years I sold car at a Nissan store, the unwillingness to bring CarPlay/Android Auto to the brands “premium” models lost tons of sales.
Many said it directly to me “I’m not buying anything without it”
People love Toyotas enough to go for that while they were being stubborn over it, but not Nissans and Chevys.
Nissan: Versa, Rogue, Kicks gets CarPlay! Fuck you for wanting it on a Pathfinder or your Armada
hi_im_bored13@reddit
To quantify this, according to a mckinsey study is around half of all buyers who won’t consider a car without carplay/AA
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/how-do-consumers-perceive-in-car-connectivity-and-digital-services
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
I'm in that cohort. There's zero reason to pay a subscription for shit that comes with CarPlay for free.
Add the inferior UX to the mix, and it's just mind-boggling. There's ZERO value-add in what GM is doing.
And before anyone pipes up about routing w/state of charge, CarPlay can do that. https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/set-up-electric-vehicle-routing-iphc5e3a4b4b/ios
SoCalChrisW@reddit
Not to mention that you're virtually assured that the custom apps that come in your car's entertainment system will never be updated again. Carplay & Android Auto will be bringing new features to your system for years, for free. Add me to the list of people who will automatically not buy a car without Car Play or AA.
herrmann0319@reddit
I know, it just defies common sense. Will it have the App and Play Store installed on it? Then fine. If not, which obviously it won't, worst idea in the history of car making.
If the software is so great, then people will decide to use it, but at least give your customers a choice.
It's a snobby move and will be a dealbreaker for almost anyone familiar with carplay.
Whoever is the decision maker for this move should be fired. It's not a gamble. It's an obvious fail!
What do you guys think is clouding this person's judgment so badly? Their ego?
crshbndct@reddit
And even if they update the apps, I get a new iPhone for free every two years. Are they gonna come to my house and upgrade my ICE hardware every two years?
snoo-boop@reddit
I'm still getting updates after 11 years.
bigev007@reddit
Even if CP couldn't, cars with Google Maps can do it and still have CarPlay!
DaftHunk@reddit
Yikes, maybe try a different acronym there bro 😬
kitchenjesus@reddit
What’s wrong with cheese pizza
herrmann0319@reddit
Universal symbol for the acronym of carplay lol
THEMFCORNMAN@reddit
You unintentionally made that worse lol. Cheese pizza is what alot of people call it when searching for it.
TwntyOneTwlv@reddit
Looks like Cedar Point to me shrug
bigev007@reddit
Lol, yeah probably should
Few-Maintenance-2677@reddit
These people blow my mind with the stuff they think is important to GET RID OF. “Let’s screw THIS up and…” It’s like they have Elon Musk for an adviser on how to fuck up.
merlot2K1@reddit
Pretty sure his companies are doing pretty damn well.
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TURBOJUGGED@reddit
Gm has proven time and time again they can’t build a a UX for shit let alone a working voice assistant. The convenience of Siri whilst you’re driving is undervalued by these companies.
kon---@reddit
Free phone? Free carrier service?
Come on yo, tell us you that app doing all that for free. What's the secret!
Selethorme@reddit
Don’t be disingenuous. I will have a phone and cell service regardless of the car I buy.
kon---@reddit
So you're saying, regardless the phone. You have a car. Since you have a car anyway, is there a reason it should cater to a third party device?
When you buy a hammer, does it have to be able to sync with your calendar?
bearhos@reddit
“Don’t be disingenuous”
Proceeds to ask if you’d like a hammer to sync with your calendar. Cmon dude, stop picking fights
kon---@reddit
Except, it's earnest genuine attempt at helping people take a look at the dissonance they're demonstrating.
Of course the hammer doesn't have to sync with the phone. So why does the car? What happens on the way to buy a car that hits as, 'OMG. I can not and will not purchase any form of automotive engineering that does not have the only map app I've ever been exposed to!'
thebrucecat@reddit
The car also doesn't have to sync, at least not for free, as GM have demonstrated here, but a phone is something most people have already, it is an absolutely necessary piece of equipment for most walks of life. Why on earth, when you know that the best app to maximise the usefulness of your phones entertainment capabilities is free, would you be happy to pay for a subscription service that does the same job but worse? Your argument seems to be that people saying carplay is free forget that they are paying for their phone, but this is just the absolute worst take. People need their phone and pay for their phone regardless of their car situation. I know lots of people that don't have a car and do not drive, but I do not know a single working adult who does not have a phone. This argument makes no sense because, as the people have mentioned, carplay IS free. The app that talks to your phone and plays music in your car through your phone costs the end user nothing. Whatever phone you have, whatever plan you've got, that is a separate, ongoing expense that you would already need to cover. Being asked to pay an extra fee to use a capability that already exists for free is just infuriating and it would absolutely sway my decision against certain brands, if not just because of the ongoing extra cost, but also because of the straight up greed on display and the disdain it shows for their customers.
As a marginally relevant side note, today's car brands and modern cars deserve no loyalty from consumers. 14 companies own almost all of the major car brands. They are all so alike that parts from a budget Ford hatch can be found on a Lamborghini. The key for a new Subaru will say Toyota on the inside. The latest Toyota Supra is a BMW Z4 that's in hiding. A new car now is so similar in design, reliability and build quality that having a favourite brand seems pointless. Any company that exploits their brand name and history to sell cars at a higher cost for no extra benefit does not deserve ongoing patronage. Something to remember as everything moves towards a subscription model in modern vehicles.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
I think it's exceedingly clear what I mean. Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish.
kon---@reddit
I'm pointing out that your logic has a bit of an i$$ue attached to it.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
No, it doesn't.
kon---@reddit
Still denying that you pay dearly for having the phone eh. As if it's just there, magically keeping itself maintained throughout the remainder of your days in this place...for free!
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
You'll find that you will be unable to show me where I have said or implied that phones are free. What a wildly dishonest claim.
Let me spell out what has been clear to everyone else: I already have a phone. I can mirror my phone to my car's display at no added cost. This is not the case with new GM vehicles. You have to pay monthly for functionality that isn't even equivalent.
kon---@reddit
Your entire point is underpinned by the expense of the phone. An expense that phone people continue to forget is there. First in acquiring the device, then in maintaining the device on a carrier.
You and others, do not acknowledge the dependency while simultaneously demanding it be catered to. I suggest, everyone should be glad that during the transition, manufactures had a period of giving consumers training wheels for a minute.
The writing on the wall is clear. People hooked on CarPlay and Android Auto will have to wait on those tech companies to become, car companies. Which wow, it sure as shit is working out exceedingly well for Xiaomi.
StandupJetskier@reddit
Carplay is added value for those of us in the Apple ecosystem. Look how much they charge for your app to "carplay", I'm guessing that GM wanted a slice and they said no.
Ciabatta_Pussy@reddit
I don't really want people staring at the big ass tablet on their dash pushing them all their notifications and distractions tbh.
Just connect your Bluetooth and put your playlist on shuffle man.
DummyThicccThrowaway@reddit
I 100% agree with your point because I hat people getting distracted in the car, but carplay has done more good (for me) than bad.
Before my GTI, it got chaotic trying to pull over and figure out where to go if I got lost or something, but having the map there is a god send
czarfalcon@reddit
To be fair if the screens are here to stay (and we’re clearly not winning the war on distracted driving), CarPlay/Android Auto is probably the safest implementation of that interface. A simple, familiar, uniform interface with large easy to tap buttons is going to be better than someone fumbling around with a comparatively tiny phone screen while driving. Plus CarPlay at least limits notifications to texts/calls and for the former will dictate them for you and let you dictate your response, rather than encouraging people to actually read the message and type out a response.
CurryGuy123@reddit
On top of that, even if the UI/UX of a manufacturers software is good - there's nothing that can ever be as seamless as using apps that are right off your phone, whether that's music, phone/contacts, or locations/routing through maps.
lowrred@reddit
Tell that to the Tesla owners
Markuz@reddit
Tesla's interface is so close to Apple's, people don't mind it.
bschmidt25@reddit
Eh… I kinda hate not having it. The issue is the lack of app integration. I take Teams and Zoom calls on the road pretty frequently and not having the integration with Tesla really kind of sucks. It’s really seamless with CarPlay.
Also, Apple Music and Spotify for that matter work much better with CarPlay than they do with the native streaming apps on Tesla. For example, if you switch sources / apps and want to go back to streaming, it doesn’t pick up where you left off. It restarts your playlist from the beginning.
Egotiator1337@reddit
Luckily, there's actually pretty easy upgrade you can make that puts AA/CP on your Tesla screen. You enable it by putting all five fingers on the screen. It's pretty cool!
ContentSheepherder33@reddit
Just use you phone for the calls. I’ve had both, Tesla is better.
Arc_Ulfr@reddit
Ah yes, I'm sure that telling the everyone in the forty-person meeting that they have to hold it over the phone instead of via Teams is going to go over very well.
ContentSheepherder33@reddit
You didn’t know that’s possible? You can’t use the screen anyways, so why does it matter?
Arc_Ulfr@reddit
I know that you can call in, it's just annoying as hell because the incoming call needs to be approved, it's more disruptive than just connecting normally, and it becomes more difficult to tell who is actually there if you just have a bunch of phone numbers instead of names.
OceanWaveSunset@reddit
Why not just use the dial in number and passcode in the teams meeting invite?
I would rather use the app too, but its not like it affects anyone else if someone calls in.
MornwindShoma@reddit
I disagree with the guy, but I did take a call on Meet that way for once (there's a phone number you can call). I don't see how you could do that while driving though.
egowritingcheques@reddit
It's illegal to touch your phone where I live. It's illegal for your phone to be touching your skin even while off. It's over $1000 fine.
nerdtypething@reddit
ah yes, the “you’re holding it wrong” argument.
ContentSheepherder33@reddit
What do you mean hold it wrong? Just answer your phone? You can’t use screens while driving anyways.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
It’s very easy to initiate zoom calls & add participants with zoom’s carplay integration, and you can use siri
Whereas with the tesla controls you’re limited to standard call options (mute/hangup)
MonkeysRidingPandas@reddit
Well, at least Tesla/Apple people are familiar with it...
twiggymac@reddit
My uber driver had to use his phone despite having a massive tablet next to him because he said the integration sucked.
Head-Gap-1717@reddit
This is so annoying wow
rconn1469@reddit
And that’s probably where GM is trying to go with this.
Realistically if you provide as good or better of an experience than CarPlay you can get customers.
CarPlay isn’t a great experience. But it’s a better experience than mounting my phone on the dash if I’m a power user of apps that the car doesn’t have integrated in their native system, like Waze, or Apple Music.
It will require thoughtful and well executed integration of apps people are wedded to, and mapping data from a well known, trusted source - or just actual Google Maps right in the car.
If GM can pull that off is another story.
Realistic_Village184@reddit
Certainly your comment didn't deserve downvotes, and it's at +50 now, but I strongly disagree with you.
You working in the industry doesn't mean you're automatically right. You obviously understand that tons of people in the industry get things wrong all the time, so it's weird that you think that every opinion you have must be correct because you work in the industry. Did your brain explode the first time a coworker disagreed with you about anything? Because that would be impossible if we follow your logic here.
The big issue is that even if GM could design a system that's as good as CarPlay (which is basically guaranteed to not happen), it still wouldn't have the integration with the user's phone that people want. Plus people are already familiar with CarPlay, so a system would have to be significantly better than CarPlay and in a way that's immediately obvious to new users. That just isn't going to happen, period. I think you're just stubbornly clinging to a belief you know is wrong for some reason I don't get.
rconn1469@reddit
As I’ve explained like 50 other times here: nowhere did I advocate for removing CarPlay. You people are so fucking deluded by your rage over a fucking phone projection you let it cloud your ability to see that literally anything else that in theory could be good could exist in parallel.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Sure it is. I have my media on my phone, I want that media on my infotainment screen in a car-friendly way, presto. CarPlay/AndroidAuto work well.
Meanwhile, Tesla/Volvo/GM think they can provide a value-add by making you jump through hoops to surface the same info in the car.
rconn1469@reddit
CarPlay on my current vehicle doesn’t integrate with my HUD, doesn’t integrate with my gauge cluster, unless I’m using Apple Maps, which I’m not going to do.
The OEM can provide a better experience if they learn how to do it correctly.
Rivian already is.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
You have the feature you want. Meanwhile on the aforementioned Rivian, I can't use Apple Maps at all.
Podcasts don't work on the Rivians I've driven because there is no Apple Podcasts app for their software.
I also cannot open iMessage and tap a route sent to me, nor can I open a song sent to me via messages and have it play on my app of choice.
A profile has to be set up, and then all apps need to be downloaded/signed into/etc.
This makes sharing the car a PITA at best.
Lastly; I have to pay a monthly fee for this "wonderful" experience, or my car is effectively a paperweight in terms of infotainment.
I just do not think that Rivian or Tesla's solutions offer any benefit.
rconn1469@reddit
I have the feature I want if I use inferior Apple Maps. It’s the exact same argument in reverse as the point of this article. I have to use Apple’s proprietary software to have a full experience. I don’t want to be forced into their shitty maps.
dissss0@reddit
Remains to be seen TBH - no one has achieved this so far and while Tesla has probably come the closest the cons still far outweigh the cons (IMO, YMMV etc)
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Do you see the irony of advocating for a paid replacement that locks you in to whatever providers the OEM chose, while disparaging having integration with your iPhone/Android?
I explained in that very sentence that I cannot use Apple Maps in a Rivian. I have to use their solution.
Again; your argument just doesn't hold water here.
rconn1469@reddit
I can’t with you.
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MsAnneThropicOF@reddit
They're already fucking shit up. I have a '23 C8 stingray and a '24 z06. The 24 infotainment system is worse than the 23 in every single possible way. I have no idea why they switched it. It's like they never even bothered testing it in an actual vehicle. All the icons are tiny and require precise screen touches with drop down menus and other bullshit. They even managed to make carplay worse as they shoehorned the entire carplay experience into a full-time smaller window that provides absolutely zero benefit.
bigvernuk@reddit
Power user. Waze. Ok.
ehasley@reddit
What people are missing is GM isn't just doing their own infotainment; they're using Android Automotive. So you get access to everything Google has to offer which is similar to CarPlay.
Granted Apple users hate Android and vice versa but it's not some cobbled GM in-house software. And it allows deep integration with the car as far as EV feature and route planning.
All that being said, gas models have Android Automotive and still have access to CarPlay so they definitely CAN do it. I don't understand why they would remove the option in EV's only.
rconn1469@reddit
It goes back to a lot of the benefits of an EV becoming far more effective when you use the native navigation system.
For example, navigating to a charging station, the vehicle knows when to start preconditioning the battery for charging. No data transfer from CarPlay, car can’t perform any kind of smart functions.
ehasley@reddit
Right those are the points I was trying to make. Android Automotive is pretty solid it just sucks to not have the option to bit use it
Castif@reddit
I have a friend who works on the software side for GM and I have 0 faith that whatever they do will not be complete trash with all the shit he tells me about the crap they deal with.
Nf1nk@reddit
I rent a lot of cars and I have 100% faith that GM's new infotainment system will be a dumpster fire filled with dogshit.
kramfive@reddit
Auto manufacturers won’t update it. CarPlay gets updated with phone software.
BigRed23Sequoia@reddit
I suffered with a GM product once when I was younger and never again. To the point of actually hating when I have to drive a GM rental.
bigev007@reddit
God, the new GM interface is so damn bad. Which is a shame since their last one was actually quite good.
poopoomergency4@reddit
i've owned a GM car and i have absolutely no faith they'll produce a good system instead of lock-in subscription garbage.
even if the system was incredible, i still wouldn't even consider buying it, because it's not carplay. the same way i don't buy cars with ridiculous "reinvent the shifter" or "reinvent the wheel" concepts.
i shouldn't have to learn another garbage UI to pull up maps and spotify when i can just already have those up on my phone before i even leave the house, wirelessly pair to the car, and be on my way in seconds.
tomorrowthesun@reddit
This is my expectation, but based on the sheer crap interfaces the car industry continues to put out year after year. There’s a reason all they had to do was make a nice interface and everyone loved it.
a_modal_citizen@reddit
Thing is, you're not going to. There are benefits to Car Play and Android Auto that you're just not going to get with a proprietary system that's tied to your car. If nothing else, iOS and Android are going to get new apps quicker (if the proprietary system gets them at all), be supported longer and get updated more frequently. You don't have to login to accounts on two different devices. I'm sure I could keep going.
The idea is the equivalent to making a smart TV without HDMI ports... If your apps are good enough who needs anything else, right?
rconn1469@reddit
That’s not necessarily the case.
There are a lot of cars now that use Android OS as the back end system for their infotainment and run apps off the cloud with a 4G/5G connection.
The thing is those apps have to be integrated by each manufacturer with their specific environment that lays on top of that Android OS, and they have to be willing to make the investment to do so, as well as negotiate with the people behind those apps to collaborate to get it in their proprietary app environment.
With the Apple App Store, those individual companies have the incentive to focus on that market and make the investment on their own for it to work with Apple’s iOS with hundreds of millions, if not billions of users.
With an automaker you’re only reaching a minuscule fraction so it’s on the automaker to make the investment to integrate if they don’t want iOS in their car.
FullMinkJacket@reddit
This is false. ios18+ support Spatial Audio and CarPlay.
FullMinkJacket@reddit
The customer-friendly thing to do is to leave AA/CP in place as they build their theoretically great capabilities. If they build better than AA/CP, there'll be a sharp decline in AA/CP usage and a matching uptick in usage of their map/phone/music/podcast/etc...
In the meantime, keeping AA/CP in-place is a rounding error, cost-wise, compared to developing a suite of competitive apps.
I think this is a shitty, customer-hostile decision made by an inexperienced executive who massively underestimates the challenge that they're taking on. They almost certainly have the same mindset that you have... that pivoting to tech will be easy.
rconn1469@reddit
It’s not my “mindset” - I agree that customers want CarPlay no matter how shitty of an experience it is versus the native system.
I’m simply explaining, as someone in the industry dealing with things like this, the only way they could possibly be successful with this strategy.
FullMinkJacket@reddit
My mistake. When you wrote "just Actual Google Maps in the car", I thought you meant that putting actual google maps in the car would be a trivial exercise (that wouldn't result in Google wanting more control than AA/CP already have). As an experienced tech leader, whenever somebody says the word "just", I hear them underestimating scope.
Try the Apple Music integration on a Rivian, and you'll recognize that you don't just want integration... you want an app that's of similar quality to the original app. But this ends up being a really questionable allocation of engineering resources; because the best you'll ever get is a customer thinking "okay, this is the same as I already have. good."
Their team is not going to build a better Apple Music, or Spotify, or Audible, or Libby, or Apple Podcasts, or Downcast, or Overcast, or Tencent Music, or Amazon Music, or YouTube Music, or whatever.... at best they'll build something comparable for some applications.
rconn1469@reddit
Apple Music on Rivian for example unlocks the ability for a Rivian to have Spatial Audio and far better sound quality. CarPlay does not. That alone makes it better in my book.
FullMinkJacket@reddit
Spatial Audio has been available via CarPlay from ios18 onward.
So even if somebody cared more about Spatial Audio than, for example, working search functionality, they'd be better off with CarPlay.
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
It's clearly not a shitty experience.
There's no advantage to AndroidAutomotive. You have to download apps onto the car, sign into them, etc.
You have to manage profiles, etc.
With CarPlay, I can plug my phone into any car enabled with it and boom, I have all of my shit right on the screen.
rconn1469@reddit
You have to download apps on your phone and sign into them too. What’s your point?
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
They're already on my phone and I carry my phone with me.
Can't exactly carry my car overseas on vacation.
But if my rental car has CarPlay; it makes life a lot easier.
ducky21@reddit
You will get downvoted any time you try to explain the context and nuance of something people don't want. They assume you are on "the other side" and Downvote to Disagree.
It's just a Reddit thing. Don't take it personally.
PBIS01@reddit
I’m taking this comment personally simply because I was told not to! Don’t you dare try to take muh freedums. /s
nickybuddy@reddit
The last thing I want is GM to have any of those apps integrated into their infotainment software. GM is one of the worst abusers of driving and user metrics for their vehicles. I’m not giving GM more of my data to sell. At least with CarPlay (can’t speak for AA as I don’t use it), I have the option to share data with whatever I’m connecting to. Apple is surprisingly really good at keeping your data somewhat safe, Google on the other hand is just as bad as Gm
rconn1469@reddit
So you use Apple Maps?
nickybuddy@reddit
Yeah. I don’t use any of the built in Google products on my 2024 Silverado. I’ve disabled as much as I can through the infotainment. GM requires the $40cad/month data package just to use the built in assistant, even if it’s for features local to the vehicle (climate, component life, change song). I like CarPlay cause I can search up an address on maps while im walking to the truck, then once I get in it will switch to CarPlay automatically, load my last searched address, and then I can proceed with navigation by pressing a single button on the display. I’m sure android does the same, but like I said I don’t use it.
Imtherealwaffle@reddit
Just curious why you think carplay ins't great in a vacuum? I find its pretty good
hughcifer-106103@reddit
NARRATOR VOICE: They could not, in fact, pull it off
Impossible-Use5636@reddit
I rented a Tesla and hated not having CarPlay.
The Tesla UI is the main reason I would not buy one.
crshbndct@reddit
Can I iMessage or FaceTime from the Tesla thingy?
bigvernuk@reddit
It’s rubbish
therealrenshai@reddit
Until you have to respond to a text and forget which button to hold for voice commands or double tap on the screen.
apaksl@reddit
but it's still a poor value, because the money to develop tesla's interface has to come from somewhere. I'd rather the money I pay for a vehicle go towards features I actually want instead of reinventing the wheel.
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
And considering GM is basically having Google make this software, could the same not be possible for them? Not defending this decision because I like CarPlay and hate subscriptions if that's what GM is after, but I think people are kind of misunderstanding what GM is doing.
They aren't trying to replace CarPlay with an awful, laggy, standard infotainment system. They're working with Google to create something equivalent.
Snarkranger@reddit
Tesla has 5% market share in the United States.
bigev007@reddit
And, like buyers who bought a Honda with no volume knob, some bought it despite that for the car's other merits (and hate it every time they drive). Nobody is doing that for anything from GM :P
m1rrari@reddit
I waited for the knobs return.
No regrets.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
think it’s worth noting honda buyers complained enough that they brought back the volume knob
franksandbeans911@reddit
There's a short list of switches/buttons which should be tactile and present in every car. Don't bury a volume knob in a damn touch screen.
reward72@reddit
Exactly. As Tesla needs to expand beyond their religious fanbase, CarPlay (and Android) will matter very much to people who don't particularly care about the car brand. I wouldn't buy a car without CarPlay unless it is a weekend sports car and even then...
cloudsofgrey@reddit
Tesla is one of the few that truly does need carplay or android auto. You have to actually use it before you will agree but its about as good as a car interface can get.
reward72@reddit
That's one of the reasons I wouldn't own one. That and Musk.
dinkygoat@reddit
Ehh. My previous car had AA/AC and when i was shopping for my current car, I definitely had it on the features list of "must-haves", preferably wireless (my old car was wired). And then I bought a Tesla anyway. Especially since YT Music got added a couple months ago - the car natively handles YT Music, Google Maps and phone calls. I shouldn't be texting and driving anyway so I don't miss not having Whatsapp on the car. And the native interface is indeed good enough. I really though I would miss it. Coming up on about a year with the Tesla now, doesn't bother me at the slightest.
FullMinkJacket@reddit
Tesla owners are routinely misinformed about AA/CP vs built-in.
For example, a lot of Tesla owners think that they need the Tesla nav, so that they can get route planning with charging stations, preconditioning, etc; not realizing that Porsche EVs do the same thing with Apple Maps.
natesully33@reddit
I put up with not having it, it's a downside of the car that wasn't bad enough to prevent me from buying it.
Not having traffic info on the big screen because I'm not paying for any subscriptions is annoying, as is fiddling with bluetooth for music.
xlb250@reddit
Tesla buyers are only 5% of the market
0_throwaway_0@reddit
Yeah but then you’d have to talk to a Tesla owner : /
PhilipRiversCuomo@reddit
Tesla has over 50% market share of the US auto market?
not-covfefe@reddit
I'll never own a Tesla.
RadicalSnowdude@reddit
A company’s car has to have some special feature to that that people will value more than having CarPlay. For tesla, it’s the positives you get from owning a Tesla. For a Toyota, it’s their reliability and dependability. For a Nissan or a Chevy, what reason is there for me to choose their cars instead of getting something with CarPlay from Honda or Ford and instead?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I assume they are in the other 50%
PlsHalp420@reddit
Man, I feel so out of touch.
My first criteria when picking a car is driving enjoyment. Half of drivers care more about infotainment than that.
Something is seriously wrong with me.
GetTheGanjaBabyInLA@reddit
Most people get driving enjoyment by listening to music while driving and not shifting gears and pressing clutch.
strongmanass@reddit
Nothing wrong with you, you just have niche requirements (like all enthusiasts). When you buy a suit, do you think about the fiber length of the wool, whether a suit is canvassed or fused, who the brand contracted to make it was, and the ratio of gorge to blazer length? Probably not because I'm guessing you're not a suiting nerd. Hobbyists get into stuff that the general public doesn't care about. That's not a bad thing as long as you keep perspective and don't look down on non-hobbysits as having inferior preferences.
tacomonday12@reddit
And that's a number that would increase drastically with more older people dying and younger people growing up to be car shoppers. Really bad time to "bet against smartphones" in 2024.
fike88@reddit
I wouldn’t buy another car without CarPlay unless i absolutely had to
hiyeji2298@reddit
Half my dealership is Honda and I hear occasionally they lose an Accord sale because the new ones don’t have satellite radio and the customer doesn’t want a CRV.
Swimming-Comedian500@reddit
And now toyota has it! I never had it before i got my new car. Life changer is an understatement. It makes everything so much easier
Conscious-Food1622@reddit
My dad’s got it in his ‘20 4Runner. So much better than having to stick with the 10 year old infotainment
land8844@reddit
Oh god, Entune just needs to be taken out back and shot. We have it in our '15 Highlander and it's just so terrible.
crshbndct@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Toyota/comments/13hfusb/apple_carplay_for_20142019_highlander_with_360/
Save yourself the hassle and just add CarPlay.
Pretty much every Toyota back to 2005ish can have it added, for a much more integrated look/feel
land8844@reddit
Oh yeah, I know about that add-on. I'd rather a proper aftermarket system that does both AA/ACP. The touchscreen is hot garbage anyway.
Lost_Result5686@reddit
It came to the Nissan SUV’s eventually too, but far too late, way too late.
It was just short of an insult to the clients buying your flagship vehicles not to have it.
mikeycp253@reddit
It’s so awesome. It doesn’t even matter that the factory infotainment on my Corolla kinda sucks because I never see it.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
my pilot has all physical HVAC controls and wireless carplay. I cannot think of ever owning a car without both. It's seriously such a QOL feature I think it will significantly factor the car I buy in the future.
RunninOnMT@reddit
It's a weird minefield for manufacturers. Apparently Acura just went straight to "apple car play" and skipped built in navigation for the Integra. I told my mom to check out an Integra when she was looking for her next vehicle, but she lives in the country and frequently doesn't have phone reception and so she straight up crossed the Integra off her list.
I can't imagine the nav situation really influencing any car I was buying as long as there were options either way, but this shit is CRUCIAL to a lot of people.
Anyway dumb move by GM here. Apple carplay is nice.
Elianor_tijo@reddit
The A-Spec w/ tech package has it? The base and Type S do not. At least that was the case for MY 2024.
Striking-Bluejay-349@reddit
Why don't you help your mom use Apple Maps's offline maps feature so she doesn't need cell reception to navigate?
RunninOnMT@reddit
I honestly don't think she would've been interested. I'm 2 states away and by the time i was able to get down there, she'd already bought a Mazda3. Still, that visit i did make headway by pointing out that apple maps and google maps are different from one another, so we're making progress. But "downloading offline maps" is still a ways away.
Like i said, basing a car purchase that's like $30K on something as trivial as "how the navigation works" is insane to me, but it's really not for a ton (perhaps even the majority) of people in this world.
3600CCH6WRX@reddit
In that case, isn’t it better to have a CarPlay app with offline navigation on her phone? Whichever car she uses, she will be using the same app.
RunninOnMT@reddit
That's a little complex for her. Also, my understanding of the offline mode is that it requires forethought. She just has built in navigation with the maps all loaded onto an SD card, old-school like what we used to do with DVD's.
I'm sure they hardly ever update if at all, but the maps will all be there no matter what the reception situation looks like.
gbeezy007@reddit
But like wouldn't you want this forethought regardless so you're phone has maps avaible always even when you don't have service or little service ? And then it would also just work on the car.
You'd probably download the offline map and get a car with dedicated maps anyhow then. Also it's like 1 min of changing a setting and you're set for years and years.
RunninOnMT@reddit
It's probably a thing she should do. Maybe i'll steal her phone and do it for her the next time i'm down there.
dalonehunter@reddit
Yeah, that's basically what I do with my folks and stuff like this. Set it and forget it, until they need whatever it is but you already put it in place for them. Like setting up Apple Music for them lol.
3600CCH6WRX@reddit
I know it’s not my place to say, but here’s my two cents.
I think it would be a better idea to teach her how to use an offline map on her smartphone. She might have to change her car due to a mechanical breakdown or something. If that happens, there are so many safety features on a phone navigation system that aren’t available on a car navigation system. For example, she could share her estimated time of arrival, follow along the route, and even get alerts about road hazards. All of these things can help keep her safe.
RunninOnMT@reddit
She's not tech savvy and has quite a bit of resistance to learning shit on her smartphone. Plus 99 percent of the people she'd be sharing arrival time with are ALSO not tech savvy. She lives in a bubble of 60+ year old people and I live two states away so I can't be giving her detailed instructions on how to use her phone.
Anyway, by the time I got down there, she'd already bought herself a new Mazda3 instead of the Integra.
Which is really my point. It makes sense for you, me etc. to get into the weeds and build our lives around making sure the BEST vehicle for the money works for us.
But really, most people aren't going to do that. If it's between a navigation system that will take a little less work and 20 hp, i'm picking 20 hp every single time and putting in the work for the navigation system. I know how hard the powertrain engineers worked for that 20 hp!!!
But most people? That's not how they'll think. They think: Give me the car that's easiest to use and has the shit I want without me having to work for it. It's an appliance, i just want it to do it's job. So it's a little slow or gets worse fuel economy? I'll deal with it.
HedonisticFrog@reddit
You can permanently save certain areas to your phone so it doesn't need to load them.
RunninOnMT@reddit
Makes sense, but yeah. I think it's pretty unlikely my mom wanted to go through that. She's old and was in the process of switching phone plans as she moved from Canada.
fallinouttadabox@reddit
Ford is doing the same thing, theyre basically assuming everyone is going to use CarPlay or AA and just kind of punting on the infotainment
Patrol-007@reddit
You can use Sygic navigation (download the maps for wherever you are) for the iPhone which is great for rural and mountains without cell service. I was using it when I ran out of data.
Apple Maps latest updates lets you download maps prior to
alex053@reddit
Pathfinder had that shitty 2 color display from like 2013-2020. My 2022 has a real transmission and CarPlay. Lol
Lost_Result5686@reddit
Yep the same one as my 2011 G37 lol
I left the brand prior to some of the redesigned models debuted, I like the idea of the new-generation Pathfinder so much than the one it replaced.
How’s that been?
alex053@reddit
I’m in the pathfinder now. 51k miles and just regular maintenance. OE tires don’t last long and the rear brakes didn’t last long either. Overall it’s been a great family hauler but not perfect. Some creeks and rattles and small annoyances but happy with our purchase.
Ecoboost is another story. The backup cam is upside down all the sudden and the front suspension has some noises coming from it and also rattles and stuff inside not holding up but it’s an 11 year old Ford that’s not regularly driven so I’m fine with it for now. lol
Lost_Result5686@reddit
Is the gear selection, characteristics, etc of the 9AT what one would hope? I mean it’s a Pathfinder, not a Z-car, but I’m curious. As IIRC some of its design is shared with the Mercedes 9G-tronic, and built by JATCO through that Renault-Mercedes alliance thing. No idea the credibility of that though FWIW
The Flex did what they needed it to for them, but as life changed so did their needs and got into something smaller. The idea began after it lost the A/C condenser at 75,000 KM with no impact damage
alex053@reddit
Yeah. It blends into the background no problem. Shifts are smooth and does well around town and up and down mountains.
WhipTheLlama@reddit
The right thing to do is support CarPlay and AA while also having your own system. If the in-house system is better, people will use it. I see two very real problems with GM's approach: assuming their customers see their software roadmap the same way they do, and assuming their software will be better than CarPlay and AA on day 1. Neither are likely true.
This decision screams of an organization too focused on product managers, who largely suck at their jobs.
IrishWeebster@reddit
lol
Lost_Result5686@reddit
Agree hence the quotation marks, regardless your sentiments of the brand, make it make sense:
$30,000 CAD Altima: CarPlay/Android Auto standard for all trims!
$85,000 CAD Armada: Why don’t you want to use our 2009 UI?
fallinouttadabox@reddit
When I bought my work truck, the Ford Transit and the Ram Promaster were the only two that had AA/CarPlay and my mechanic told me not to get a promaster so I was stuck getting a transit (and I love it)
Lost_Result5686@reddit
It’s the “best” choice in the segment IMO. I agree with your mechanic, and that basically leaves the antiquated GM vans, or Transit.
After Nissan I sold cars for a dealer that was really into doing pre-owned commercial vehicles.
Nocabnekat@reddit
My 2020 Lexus doesn't have support for CarPlay, it's ridiculous.
Lost_Result5686@reddit
Yep I hear ya, a relatives got an 18 RX that’s been a great car, but pretty abysmal UI tbh. Not an issue as they only care about BT & a traditional nav/GPS
370z Nismo V1 or V2? A Nismo V2 (2016+) is on my shortlist for next fun car.
How was it boosting the VQ37VHR? Being a higher compression NA engine it’s a hill to battle I’ve heard.
HirsuteHacker@reddit
Yeah I don't give 2 shits about the infotainment system in any car, except for the ability to hook up my android auto. I don't need or want ANY other feature.
Toughbiscuit@reddit
I have a "smart" stereo in my 03 truck, but it doesnt have carplay
I have considered several times shelling out the 200$ for one with it, and if i get the job im angling for, I'll likely be buying a new vehicle and integrated carplay is one of the "needs" for it
JONCOCTOASTIN@reddit
Don’t be so quick to buy anything, if you’re just going to get some no name chinese android POS
Toughbiscuit@reddit
The company that produced my current stereo has another more recent model with android auto integrated. I could sell my current one used for about $100 and get the more modern one for about 200$ iirc
JONCOCTOASTIN@reddit
Why won’t you say the company name
If you can’t pronounce the stereo name or it is outright english gibberish, probably shouldn’t buy that for your vehicle
Come on over to /r/CarAV
Toughbiscuit@reddit
I wasnt saying the brand because you get these weird and pretentious audiophile douches coming out of the woodwork when you do
JONCOCTOASTIN@reddit
I’m the opposite of pretentious, it would almost kill me to lose $200 on a bad stereo
I don’t want that to happen to anyone
Toughbiscuit@reddit
You're pretentious in the way that you chose to insert yourself into the conversation, talk down to me, and offer me meaningless unsolicited advice.
JONCOCTOASTIN@reddit
You made a comment on a very public website, I didn’t show up to your door for christsake lmao get a hold of yourself.
You’re really that embarrassed about it, fine by me big fella
Toughbiscuit@reddit
You must be really bothered by what i think of you if you're still coming back and talking like this much of a pretentious ass.
JONCOCTOASTIN@reddit
I’ll hold my cheeks open and you can hear more outta my pretentious ass
A_Horny_Pancake@reddit
I had a toyota. Decided it was ok to not have carplay. A month into that thing, I was sorry I bought it because the no carplay was absolutely atrocious and the Toyota stuff is hot trash.
Traded it 12 months later for an Expedition.
TiguanRedskins@reddit
I wanted a CX5 but Mazda didn't offer it. There was a work around but it was buggy
Spidaaman@reddit
Does infinity not have CarPlay?
DjImagin@reddit
Starting around 2022 models they finally added it
DanielCraig__@reddit
They where real late to the party. Not Toyota late but def late.
kmj442@reddit
If I had been in the market for a truck next year (when they are apparently looking to drop it) I would have skipped gmc/chevy completely. Did end up with a 24 canyon since it had CarPlay
hiyeji2298@reddit
2025s on the lot still have it. Full size & Colorado.
Graywulff@reddit
Porsche tried not to have car play, beautiful navigation system visually.
Their new cars were the first with CarPlay+ where the iPhone takes over the whole thing in coordination with Porsche and Porsche authorized.
If that’s not a u-ey I don’t know what is.
(U-turn)
bonestamp@reddit
I recently got a Porsche and it has actually changed my mind about carplay. I love carplay, I have had it in 3 vehicles -- the porsche is my first car with wireless carplay, and it's even better than wired carplay! But, the Porsche Communication Management (PCM) interface is so good that I can now see GM's paradigm where there is a day that I'd buy a car without carplay.
Now, I don't think most people can see that future, so for now car manufacturers have to offer carplay to sell cars. But, if they make their OEM systems that support carplay so good that people stop using carplay, then they have a chance at changing people's minds on this issue. That system will also need to integrate with the important accounts that I want to interact with while driving: reading out and replying to: emails and messages. Notifying me of calendar items and letting me control my streaming music accounts, etc.
Graywulff@reddit
Yeah my friend has a cayenne and he uses its system, had a 2020 Macan pre CarPlay, its nav system was mesmerizing.
KarockGrok@reddit
And you can now get AA/Carplay retrofit for the Porsche 911 back through 1965 developed by and directly from Porsche.
I put one in my '06 and it's perfect. They even managed to match the dash plastic perfectly.
https://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/classic/genuineparts/producthighlights/pccm/
Graywulff@reddit
that's so cool, my friend was thinking about a 996/997 but lack if infotainment was holding him back.
a janky thing with a bunch of different adapters to a double din thing to a frame isn't as nice as Porsche engineering it and matching the plastic.
Recoil42@reddit
CarPlay 2.0 hasn't launched yet.
The whole program is kind of in shambles right now, tbh.
altimax98@reddit
So I’ve got a new Canyon, it still has CarPlay built in and although my truck always connects to it I almost never use it. Android Automotive is pretty solid.
The issue is the subscriptions. I just wish GM (and others following suite like Tesla) would just admit it has nothing to do with a user experience (just because it has AA/Carplay doesn’t mean they cannot still have a built in solution) but has everything to do with getting you to subscribe to their crap and use/sell your data
ZeroWashu@reddit
Heck my Harley has it! Harley also has an integrated navigation feature but it is a paid optional feature on the non CVO models; the Harley dash on their tour models is twelve inches across and done exceptionally well. I do wish that carplay would not only read my texts but let me read them too; sometimes I miss some words when it reads them aloud. I did find using google maps in carplay was more visually appealing as it has satellite view whereas apple maps did not.
Oddly I don't miss it on the Tesla but I suppose that is because their UI just works for what I need it for.
Interesting_Soup9155@reddit
Add me to that list.
jrileyy229@reddit
Hah... That is indeed an issue. We all know that this is really about big data right? GM wants control of that.
Recoil42@reddit
This isn't really about data, as GM has control of that anyways even within the context of CarPlay. They're convicted Ultifi will eventually be better than CarPlay, and they're probably right about that, as CarPlay 2.0 is basically breaking at the seams right now. Reddit doesn't like to hear it, but they are right.
The big question is how quickly Ultifi will improve — and it may frankly take some time.
duderos@reddit
How exactly is CarPlay in shambles at the moment? I've had zero issues with it and have only heard people to be happily relieved to know their rental car has it.
Recoil42@reddit
CarPlay isn't in shambles — CarPlay 2.0 is in shambles.
You've never touched CarPlay 2.0, because it's never been released.
Apple previewed it back in 2022, and has been trying to figure it out ever since.
duderos@reddit
It hadn't even been released yet.
Recoil42@reddit
I believe that's what I just said, is it not?
jrileyy229@reddit
Eh.... If you're buying what the article is selling, then you believe GM is doing this FOR us, the consumer.
If they were really about giving the consumer the best experience, they would have you know... Made ultifi actually good before forcing people to use it.
That's when I hear marketing doublespeak... 'we're going to remove Android Auto because the user experience isn't good.. and we're going to give you something homegrown that is even worse, in order to give you a better experience.'
Recoil42@reddit
I'm not buying what the article is selling at all, nor am I asking you to do so. Couldn't give less of a shit what the exec in the article is selling, frankly. I'm speaking as someone who already understands the path of AAOS, the architecture of the Android system itself, and the trajectory of the twenty or so largest automakers on earth all of whom have signed up for AAOS already. I'm speaking as someone who has sat in the Xiaomi SU7 that Ford's CEO has been slobbering all over, and as someone who has already reviewed the future roadmaps of Qualcomm, NVIDIA, and SiEngine.
Ultifi is, at this moment, just a vessel for much wider sweeping architectural changes happening across the industry. They should have kept CarPlay in it more widely to ease concerns while they figured things out, but they're not wrong about the conclusion and where things are headed. By next year Qualcomm and NVIDIA are going to be putting so much raw compute horsepower into next-gen cars your eyes are going to water.
It's already been mentioned several times in this thread, and but maybe you've missed it: GM's next-gen infotainment system is actually just Android running directly on the car. It isn't the removal of Android in favour of an in-house stack — it is Android, closer to the metal than it ever has been before. Go take a look at what's going on in China at Geely or Xiaomi, you'll get a good preview of where GM is headed with this. They aren't there yet, but they need to be, as does every other automaker on the planet right now.
I've personally been in both the Geely Flyme-based cars and Xiaomi's SU7. I've been in the Stelato S9. I've been in a Li L8. They are really all that good. Leveraging CarPlay alone won't get GM where they need to be.
jrileyy229@reddit
Fair, I don't discount that it's a long term strategy, but out of the blue dropping carplay and telling iphone users they have to use this android based thing in its infancy with a lot of issues doesnt seem like a great idea though right?
I'm an android guy, so it sounds good to me. But if they went the other way and told me my infotainment was exclusively going to basically be apple ios... I'd be shopping elsewhere.
Recoil42@reddit
No, it's a dumb short-term move. I'm in full agreement with you there. It's a dumb move on the backlash alone. But as a long-term move, when you look to where the puck is going, it's going towards native solutions fully integrated with the hardware of the car. Again, see Geely or Xiaomi here — GM needs to be on that level, not just using the crutch of CarPlay.
jrileyy229@reddit
They look great, but it is a commercial after all Interestingly, the same people on another thread here today were going rage over wanting buttons back in cars... And then you see those and the future is just big screens with more things to look at
ThePretzul@reddit
You know what I really hate about CarPlay?
The fact that the wireless version of it has been known to fucking suck in specific geographic locations for years now because of 2.4GHz interference and automakers continue to force you to use it wirelessly only instead of letting you plug in a damn cable to fix it.
There are many specific locations along interstate highways that it just breaks because of the interference. There are 3 different locations on the interstate just within 25 miles of Springfield, MO alone. Having driven from the start of I-70 to the end of it and back a number of times there are dozens of spots on that interstate where it simply doesn’t work.
Not to mention the frequent bugs where CarPlay won’t let you use the cursor in the infotainment screen without turning the vehicle off and back on again ever since the latest iOS release. That and apple restricting the ability of other audio streaming services to display a queue of songs coming up next, keeping that feature exclusive to only Apple Music. CarPlay started out great and has turned into an absolute mess.
chrisd93@reddit
And the subscription fee for navigation
jrileyy229@reddit
Eh, I guess... Hard to imagine most people paying for navigation subscription when their phone is in the car with them. Outside of delivery type work, most people don't use their GPS on most days. On the one day a month I'm going somewhere I don't know by heart, you get the phone out... Not worth paying $29.99 a month for car navigation.
But admittedly not an expert in the field. I don't see why car data is all that valuable anyway. Google has it already, my phone is in the car. Google actually has far more data... When I park my car the data stops. My phone goes with me into the mall and knows every store I visit, and likely even knows exactly what I bought.
Ms_KnowItSome@reddit
I know how to get to just about anywhere I'm going to regularly go, but I frequently use nav for going to work or home just to see what the arrival estimate is and to have live traffic data on the screen. I am not an outlier for this.
CurryGuy123@reddit
It's especially useful in big cities where there's a ton of ways to get from point A to point B so you can save a lot of time by avoiding traffic.
Nyxlo@reddit
Any source on that? I'm not moving anywhere until I put my destination in, even if it's been my daily commute for the last 2 years. Traffic jams, closures etc. happen, and I'd rather have the navigation plan around it rather than being surprised by it.
ctruvu@reddit
even the ones who do just use their phone. i actually don't know a single person who uses built in nav or media player if carplay is available
nerdtypething@reddit
interestingly enough i was reading through pandora’s data use policy because my kid wanted an account and i wanted to show her how data is used. they will get information about your make, model, driving habits, even your financing situation when you integrate with the car’s infotainment system. i bet the data your car provides is much more valuable than you may realize.
jrileyy229@reddit
You're saying GM does? Or Pandora does?
nerdtypething@reddit
Pandora uses that info. And then likely sells it to who knows who else. I wouldn’t be surprised if the auto manufacturers have an agreement to retain pandora data also. tit for tat.
Hrmerder@reddit
Yep, GM can kiss my ass. Just sell me a small block LS or 350 and get out of my way otherwise.
jrileyy229@reddit
They do... You can still buy fully dressed brand new ls3 direct from GM
Dougally@reddit
GM Software boss is living in a corporate group think sychophantic world that bears no relation to reality.
Astramael@reddit
A car without CarPlay/AA doesn’t exist, as far as I’m concerned.
Ferrarisimo@reddit
I am with you, and I agree. But I will say that I don’t miss CarPlay at all in our Tesla.
Now, do I think GM can make software with the level of UI, UX, and app integration that Tesla can? No, no I do not.
bhauertso@reddit
Same. Those who see CarPlay as essential most typically have never experienced a good infotainment system from a manufacturer competent at building software (such as Tesla or Rivian). If all you are familiar with is GM, Toyota, Stellantis, and similar software incompetents, CarPlay is an absolute life-saver.
CarPlay replaces the 2010-style OEM infotainment available in your 2024 Stellantis vehicle with something that looks vaguely 2015-vintage. CarPlay is cartoony, absolutely goofy on anything larger than a tiny screen, and ultimately not well integrated with modern car features. Meanwhile, Tesla and Rivian are delivering infotainment systems that look and operate like you're actually in 2024. And CarPlay is kinda goofy by comparison.
In sum: yes, CarPlay is mandatory if you're buying a vehicle from a company that is incompetent at software. But that doesn't mean it's necessary in every car.
MembershipNo2077@reddit
It's not whether GM can do it, it's whether google can. They are actually the ones making this.
jaiden_webdev@reddit
Tesla and Rivian put a ton of work into their infotainment systems and it shows.
GM forced developers to work with subpar hardware and restrictions and it shows. Thanks to the still-ongoing dumpster fire that is our Chevy Cruze, I don’t have any interest in spending my money on another GM vehicle.
The irony is that the Cruze is technically a Daewoo — and the only part of that car I can actually attribute to GM is the infotainment system
fatitalianstallion@reddit
For a daily driver A to B and back to A car I would agree. For an A to A car that I'm just toying around with on the weekend I want an engine that makes me not want to listen to music, making me not miss Carplay.
ChiggaOG@reddit
It does. The 2019 Honda Civic Sport Hatchback with the 5” LCD screen is so basic, it doesn’t it have HD radio when the 2012 Scion xB had it with the Pioneer audio system.
Buckus93@reddit
You're misinterpreting his statement. He's saying he won't even consider a vehicle without that feature.
manesag@reddit
Can confirm, my 18 didn’t have it, so I got a Chinese radio that has it and I’m happy
BeastDynastyGamerz@reddit
Like he said, as far as his concerned there isn’t a car. Which means he’s not gonna be looking at a car unless it has them
Big_Smooth_CO@reddit
We not buy another car with out it and I am not willing to pay a service fee for it.
Falanax@reddit
No, Mr Consumer, you’re wrong.
metengrinwi@reddit
I like that there’s competition now. If GM’s product isn’t at least as good as CarPlay, they’re going to get pummeled. CarPlay is decently good, but not blow-your-socks-off good.
Alexa_Call_Me_Daddy@reddit
Their built-in software is great for navigation and music, as well as using the voice assistant.
It's not as good for messaging though, so if you care about that it's a noticeable step down. I think it also doesn't integrate with your calendar.
Vikturus22@reddit
lol who doesn’t want CarPlay/andriod auto? I want to meet these people! I only got a CarPlay stereo recently. Wont ever go back
BigBroncoGuy1978@reddit
Same for me with Android Auto. Plus I have a feeling GM will want a Service charge to use their interface someday. Infuriates me that Ford Bluecrusie is a subscription service
MKVIgti@reddit
Same, and would never buy another car without it. You get used to those features.
MattDaaaaaaaaamon@reddit
Here's the issue for GM. I don't want a GM vehicle.
DeepAsparagus6763@reddit
GM caring about what customers want? Are you crazy?
obviouslybait@reddit
This automatically removes me from purchasing any GM vehicle.
kyonkun_denwa@reddit
Don’t they still have CarPlay on the ICE cars? Like I’m pretty sure you can get a regular Equinox with CarPlay but just not an Equinox EV.
Jess_S13@reddit
They are removing it initially from the EV and then all cars according to a few articles https://www.motortrend.com/news/general-motors-removing-apple-carplay-android-auto-for-safety-tim-babbitt/
withoutapaddle@reddit
Yep. Just bought a vehicle worth half as much as my house, and didn't even consider a GM product because of this.
Having a unified infotainment experience across my vehicles is extremely important to me.
HOONIGAN-@reddit
The only reason they're doing this is so they can charge the subscription fee to use the built-in Google Maps, Spotify, etc.
hiyeji2298@reddit
To be fair the built in Google Maps in my Silverado is really nice in full screen mode. Nav has always been weird using CarPlay for me in various vehicles. I feel like I had more GPS and compass getting confused issues relying on the phone.
HOONIGAN-@reddit
I don't have a problem with the system itself. I've used it in various new GM vehicles, both ICE and EV, and for the most part, I didn't have any major complaints.
The eventual required subscription to access things like Maps, Spotify, etc, which would otherwise be 'free' via CarPlay/AA, is what bothers me the most.
hiyeji2298@reddit
I know one person that spends a ton of time in their Tahoe and he just pays the annual fee for the GM data plan. Says it’s cheaper overall than upgrading his phone data plan.
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
And sell data about you to advertising platforms.
Carrisonfire@reddit
Oh don't worry everyone was already doing that.
defund_aipac_7@reddit
That’s bad, we should be against it. I know your comment is facetious but still.
MoocowR@reddit
I'm not against my data being harvested and sold, I'm literally being compensated for it by having access to the best quality of life tools at no monetary cost.
In no universe does my data out value me being able to use android auto and get indefinite user friendly updates without having to pay for navigation or a subscription.
dcormier@reddit
Unfortunately, they're not being facetious.
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/
Carrisonfire@reddit
Sure but this about carplay. Apple was already collecting and selling your info, this just changes who is doing it not that it's happening.
BananaNutNuffin@reddit
Insurance*
CarAndTennisGuy@reddit
Under the facade of "for EVs, builtin navigation will do better as it knows the car's charge state and consumption".
Whatcanyado420@reddit
I mean. Same reason why Apple tries to take a cut from Spotify and Google Maps revenue.
shwaynebrady@reddit
Lmao that is just so false.
luckymethod@reddit
duh. the question is how long before their plan explodes in their faces.
argent_pixel@reddit
Which is why Mara Barra can jump off a bridge with this bullshit. Any company that follows this path is just doing for more profit and can expect to get zero of it from me.
User9172618@reddit
Ding ding ding!
GOAT_SAMMY_DALEMBERT@reddit
I sure wonder who I trust more to create good integrated software for a vehicle, two storied tech companies that are at the top of their industry or fucking General Motors.
Tough one.
delebojr@reddit
Their infotainment software is largely written by Google...
InsertBluescreenHere@reddit
right? gm's new plan is to essentially integrate an android phone into the headunit to do all the android auto functions without having to connect your phone and deal with that buggy mess.
AndroidUser37@reddit
Except instead of tapping into the greater processing power of phones the way Android Auto does, you're stuck relying on a shitty embedded chip, and then being nickel and dimed for the data connection to that chip.
Source: Family member with a 2022 Suburban that's had laggy built in Google maps since it was brand new. If it's laggy from the factory, imagine how crap it'll be in ten years.
hiyeji2298@reddit
That’s because those embedded chips have to pass certain standards and there isn’t much else available. Some (Tesla) just say f it and use consumer grade stuff but the likes of GM and Ford can’t and won’t do that. There are newer commercial grade components coming it just takes time to validate.
AndroidUser37@reddit
I'm aware of what you're talking about, that's why some early Model Ses had issues with the screen turning yellow from the LCD glue delaminating due to the intense heat cycles of an automotive application. But it's been ten years since then, feels like the pace of automotive grade hardware is glacial.
hiyeji2298@reddit
I was mainly referring to SOC and such but yes you’re correct it is slow. With their commercial product requirements for government etc they have to validate everything.
99YardRun@reddit
And should anything happen to that chip it'll cost the same as two phones to replace with $500 of labor and a lead time measured in months.
hutacars@reddit
TBF, even if it allowed CarPlay, there’s still gotta be “a chip” on the car’s side to make it all work, which is still prone to failure.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
sure, but those chips can be much more generic since they’re doing much less work
julienjj@reddit
ahahahahah just 2 phones ? Just replaced the headunit module in a 2019 Q5. Those mofos sell it for 9000$ CAD
CelphT@reddit
holy shit that's outrageous
Ms_KnowItSome@reddit
While phones will continue to advance in processing power, a lot of the CPUs they are putting in infotainment units aren't a slouch. The problem is the completely unoptimized setup that hamstrings the user interface. My 2023 Outback reportedly has some kind of quad core Intel Automotive chip in it that should have plenty of horsepower for anything. The problem is the user interface of the screen is running on some kind of virtual machine because the bare metal is running some kind of hypervisor that also controls the instrument panel. On top of that, some people who have somehow gotten access to the code says it's a complete shitshow of unoptimized hacks.
The sluggish UI results.
AndroidUser37@reddit
I think this is where startups/more agile companies will continue to hold a lead over legacy auto. Tesla, Rivian, et al benefit from having ground up architectures compared to entrenched, hacky systems like what you're describing.
Ms_KnowItSome@reddit
For Tesla it is the near complete distaste for using tier 1 automotive suppliers for various subsystems. They try to vertically integrate everything they can. All the major manufacturers are more systems integrators than anything else by hanging various vendors modules on the CAN and other data busses in the cars and trying to make them all work together.
tpolakov1@reddit
That's going to be a moot point, because GM will drop the support of your car/head unit model in a couple of years, or support it only through their dealerships network which you won't use for a 10 year old junker.
The boomer takes that you hear from people on this issue are mental...
Recoil42@reddit
"Greater processing power of phones" vs "shitty embedded chip" is a false dichotomy here, and is what is misleading you and so many others in these kinds of threads. The chips are architecturally the same, and the peak TDP is actually greater in a car with less potential for overheating.
Where we're headed is a place where your car is much, much more powerful than your phone — you just don't realize it yet, whereas the architects at GM do. The 2022-era chips were still legacy off-the-shelf components, whereas the next-gen stuff is extremely heavy-duty. Look at a Xiaomi SU7, Tesla Model Y, Rivian R1S, or Li L9 and the lag you're talking about has already disappeared. That's what everyone else is headed towards next.
xienze@reddit
If Android Auto is a buggy mess, that's an indictment of Android Auto. I've been using Carplay for years and you just plug it in and go.
sasquatch_melee@reddit
Android Auto isn't a buggy mess, I use it daily in a GM no less and it works great.
Now, GMs last generation systems that had Android as the OS? Crashy and terrible. Mine has the even older generation before that running BlackBerry QNX and it works great. UI is ugly but who cares, I don't use it, I only use wired android auto from my phone.
hiyeji2298@reddit
That’s not a GM problem though. Every vehicle that uses Android Automotive for the infotainment will have the same bugs.
Clover-kun@reddit
Android Auto has worked flawlessly for me on everything from a 2013 Mazda3 to my 2024 i5. Whenever I get a new phone I also get a hardware upgrade, it's great. Meanwhile Geekbench scores put GM's hardware on par with a Raspberry Pi, and significantly slower than your average iPhone or Galaxy. Not a good look for a vehicle with a multidecade lifespan
HailOfHarpoons@reddit
It isn't, fyi.
avoidhugeships@reddit
It is not. I have no idea what that guy is talking about. It does exactly what I want without issue.
e136@reddit
Regardless, the software here is Android Automotive (different from Android auto). So no need to pair with the phone to work, which I assume caused most of the issues you saw
Buckus93@reddit
Sure, but once the free data trial expires, you gotta shell out for GMs data service.
e136@reddit
You mean hypothetically in the future? Or do they do that today?
delebojr@reddit
That depends on the vehicle. With my STI, it works flawlessly every time. With other vehicles, such as the Outback, it is sketchy at best.
kmj442@reddit
That’s probably on the car manufacturer/implementation. In the 3 cars I’ve had it (all wireless) it works flawlessly when it connects. In my m2 there have been instances where it just won’t connect and I have to “reboot” the headunit (hold the volume/mute knob for 30 seconds) then it’s fine
ButtholeSurfur@reddit
Wireless Android Auto is flawless in my Hyundai. Wired is good in my Subaru but it's feeling it's age. Still works when I need GPS.
Theconnected@reddit
There are dongles to add wireless android auto to a car with wired. I use one in my WRX without issues.
ButtholeSurfur@reddit
Oh yeah I've seen em. Don't think it's worth investing for me. It works 85 times out of 100 and I don't use it around town.
Chippy569@reddit
It's always a 3-way street. AA/CP is just a protocol, a "language" so-to-speak between your phone and the radio. Both the phone and the radio have to be speaking the same language for it all to work nicely. Since Apple/Google controls the protocol, they can change it really at any time they want, tbh. And when they do, both the phone and the radio need to be updated to support that change.
Your phone will probably update itself overnight, most people have come to expect that by now.
The car on the other hand, may or may not be on some flavor of "always connected" system where it even can do that. Also the manufacturer of your car's radio (which is probably not the same as the manufacturer of your car; for example /u/delebojr's STi radio is made by Harman Kardon, where his outback I presume is 2020+ so made by Denso) needs to update the software and then have the manufacturer of the car push it to the radios in whatever way they do that.
I can definitely understand GM not wanting to relinquish that control/support to the whims of Apple/Google; it's through that lens I understand their argument (and as a Subaru tech, I've been on the receiving end of it from customers).
Lopsided_Sugar_8360@reddit
For majority of cars on road right now that don't do ota there's no change at all. What's done is done and you are stuck with that for as long as you drive the car. Sure Google will update their phone app but there's only so much you can do if HU is like 6 years old
kmj442@reddit
Sure but both of these companies will not blindly deprecate a legacy protocol without warning. I have some experience in this area as an EE who does SW now. Generally they can implement a “handshake” that will agree on certain conditions/features that are supported and won’t break the full system. We all know car manufacturers don’t roll out updates very often and only now are we getting to the point where there are OTA updates in a decent amount of vehicles. Making breaking backward compatible changes is normally a big no no when it comes to not controlling the full stack and especially given the ubiquity of AA/CP support i feel pretty confident that they will drop support without warning.
Secondly if it connects at all (meaning obviously the protocol is supported) that means there’s something else causing the error, whether that be interference/poor connection status, bad car implementation, etc, that’s generally on the car manufacturer. It’s not tenable for apple/google to get their hands on EVERY unit that claims to support AA/CP to make sure it works. Also this backs my other comment that the feature set advertised by car probably won’t be updated so new features available from AA/CP won’t be able to support things on older cars that require hw changes.
In this scenario I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to Apple/google as they are software/ui/hardware companies and not automotive companies.
huhwhat90@reddit
It was quite buggy in the Nissan I rented a couple of years back, but ran smooth as silk in the Corolla I rented.
ShepPawnch@reddit
Glad to know I’m not the only one who has issues with CarPlay in my Outback. It usually works but it’s a pain in the ass sometimes.
No-Giraffe-1283@reddit
Use android auto all the time. I personally love it. My work vehicle has it, and the moment I start it up it connects by the time the dash lights do their system check and this is in a Chevy Trax
Seamus-Archer@reddit
Same here. I’ve used CarPlay on quite a few modern vehicles (including many rental cars when traveling) and a couple aftermarket head units and it’s been mostly flawless for me.
orhantemerrut@reddit
So has Android Auto. That guy is talking out of his bottom.
egowritingcheques@reddit
I've been using both for 9 years, Android Auto has been the better interface most of the time and IMHO it still is.
Ie. I use Carplay for work and AA for personal.
FunkyOnionPeel@reddit
Android Auto works great for me, don't even have to plug it in. Just connect via Bluetooth/Wi-Fi and go!
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
CarPlay is incredibly buggy for me regardless of what car I use. My phone is a 13 Pro. It often freezes, maps just load a black screen no matter what map application I use, sometimes the map won't move unless my phone is unlocked, sometimes it won't move unless my phone is unlocked and open to the maps application, sometimes Spotify says it's playing but no sound is coming through the speakers.
ConsistentFatigue@reddit
Anecdotal but I’ve never experienced any of these issues on multiple cars.
Alexa_Call_Me_Daddy@reddit
Crappy cables and worn USB ports cause a lot of intermittent issues that people then blame on AA/CP.
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
Yeah it's all anecdotal. I still really like CarPlay, but to claim it can't also be a buggy mess at times doesn't seem to be accurate.
duderos@reddit
Have you updated your phones software?
MembershipNo2077@reddit
And I've never had any issues with Android Auto but apparently that's a buggy mess for some people. Turns out both AA and Carplay have issues for some people.
gadgetluva@reddit
That’s more of an issue with the company that implements the CarPlay stack into their infotainment. Some companies are just absolute garbage at it, while others are more competent at it.
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
But it happens with literally every car I try CarPlay with. It's happened with VW, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Subaru, and Toyota. It's not incredibly frequent, but it happens enough where it's really annoying.
Mnudge@reddit
I have the same phone. In the last 18 months, I’ve driven all of those makes, and more, and I haven’t experienced those issues.
The manufactures that haven’t gone with wireless CarPlay are a little annoying, that’s a car problem, not a CarPlay problem.
I use Spotify, Libby, Audible and Teams from the moment I start until the moment I stop. Very, very, few issues for me.
forzagoodofdapeople@reddit
You have a hardware issue with your phone. You dropped it and something cracked inside.
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
Nope, it's been doing this occasionally since it was brand new.
rome_vang@reddit
Try another persons iPhone in any of the affected vehicles. That’s how you’ll know where the problem lies.
ukcats12@reddit (OP)
It doesn't really matter where the problem lies though, it's still buggy occasionally. My only original point was CarPlay can also be buggy, regardless of it's the phone or the car causing it.
forzagoodofdapeople@reddit
But the thing you're missing is that the symptoms you describe are not being replicated elsewhere by others with similar or identical hardware. So it's very likely not a "big" or "buggy" but genuine hardware damage. That's not "the phone causing it" you just may have broken hardware, in which case it's not realistic to expect software to function as intended on broken hardware.
I've had three cars with CarPlay over eight or so years across three iPhones, and I've literally had two total issues. One: my alfa turned my screen off. The other, my phone overheated and froze. That's it. And judging by the rest of the thread, there's an easy solution to solving your core problems with CarPlay "with VW, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Subaru, and Toyota."
outremus@reddit
I had this happen years ago and thought CarPlay sucked - turned out my phone was dying (hardware failure) and CarPlay was just really sensitive to the issues that was causing. I was seeing minor issues with the phone every few days outside CarPlay but nothing critical, but turns out it was really screwing up CarPlay bad. New phone and CarPlay has worked very well for years now.
SilverbackIdiot@reddit
This is sounding more like a phone issue to me. I’ve got a 12 and have had zero issues across multiple vehicles for years.
gadgetluva@reddit
I haven’t really had any problems with CarPlay in all of the cars I’ve been in. Audi, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Acura.
If the problems were as widespread as you’ve experienced, people wouldn’t love it as much as they do, just think about it.
ButtholeSurfur@reddit
I've had problems with Audi CarPlay. Can't speak on the others.
Mnudge@reddit
I drive over 30 different cars a year due to my job and the ones that have CarPlay are almost unanimously easy and straightforward to work with. The cars that make it difficult for me to use CarPlay are the cars that I avoid the next week when it’s time to drive a different one.
xienze@reddit
And I've done it with multiple cars and had no problems whatsoever. I know it's an anecdote, but I doubt AA/Carplay would be anywhere near as popular as they are if they were a consistent, buggy mess. My gut says your experience is the outlier.
YetiMoon@reddit
I’ve only had one car with CarPlay, BMW, never have had a single issue.
drew_galbraith@reddit
exactly, Carplay is basically just Ipad mode for you infotainment system
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
The Android Auto in my Frontier works fine, even when I'm running it through a Motorola M1 adapter to get wireless.
Shit, GM's current infotainment that has wireless AA and Carplay that my wife's Buick has works pretty much flawlessly.
JaspahX@reddit
I've driven 3 cars with Android Auto now and I've had zero issues. My newest one is even wireless and it's been fine.
Recoil42@reddit
JayBee58484@reddit
Completely depends on the vehicle head unit, the aftermarket pioneer wireless android auto in my BRZ has worked without a problem for years same case with the stock unit in my ZL1. Worst one i probably used was the wired in a Nissan Rogue, shit was garbage
Voltstorm02@reddit
Android Auto is great. I've never had issues using it on other people's cars.
readingaccnt@reddit
Problem: iphone is the most popular phone in the United States
Recoil42@reddit
That isn't a problem at all. They're using Android Automotive, not Android Auto. You aren't required to have an Android phone, and your iPhone stays in your pocket.
readingaccnt@reddit
Oh, interesting. Thanks for the info. So it’ll sync iMessages and phone calls?
Recoil42@reddit
Phone calls, definitely. Your car will act as a Bluetooth device for your phone, same as it always did before CarPlay even existed. Your messages are more difficult, as Apple has (traditionally) tried to keep iMessages a proprietary standard. They are gradually opening it up, but what's likely going to happen is Google will get some specific leverage over Apple in this domain and force Apple to assist in making the two ecosystems co-exist.
Pretty much every automaker on the planet has signed up to use Android Automotive already, so... this is a reality Apple simply needs to contend with now.
argent_artificer@reddit
a key point you missed that another commenter pointed out is that carplay can be implemented in android automotive & most others besides GM are doing so.
Recoil42@reddit
I haven't missed it, I'm quite aware of it.
argent_artificer@reddit
it seems relevant to your points regarding apple “bending to google”. it seems actually to be the other way around— due to iphone’s popularity, google must make sure carplay functions properly in android automotive (for everyone except GM).
MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit
We are getting deep into the technical weeds, here, but no, Google doesn't have to do anything. At it's core, any flavor of Android is a flavor of Linux amd Carplay can be made to run on it. In fact that's exactly what a lot of OEMs who don't work directly with Google like GM do.
argent_artificer@reddit
it can, but it won’t unless someone actually does the work to make it happen. that someone is google, since they are the ones developing android automotive.
Recoil42@reddit
Hopefully this doesn't shock you too much, but two companies can have different sort of simultaneous leverage over each other for specific features and specific inclusions, especially at different times. Generally speaking, Android Automotive has historically needed some sort of CarPlay support, and generally speaking, Apple is now going to have to contend with the sea of change going on in the automotive industry away from CarPlay being the primary mode of interaction.
readingaccnt@reddit
Ah. So it isn’t currently working with iMessages. That’s a really huge miss and pretty much makes it unusable for more than half of Americans.
Apple is not going to bend to GM. They don’t sell many units, and in fact, bending to them would set a bad precedent for other auto markets to abandon CarPlay. Apple has a real motivation to not allow integration with iPhones outside of CarPlay.
Recoil42@reddit
No, they're not. They're going to bend to Google.
I literally just told you this. Pay attention. Apple has no choice, every OEM in the world has already signed up with Google. The dance partners have been chosen. No one is left.
Again: Pay attention. Google, not GM, is the one with the leverage here.
readingaccnt@reddit
Question for you then, if Google has so much power over Apple
How come Apple has never opened up iMessage to Android, despite the protest of Google since the inception of the smartphone? Google and Apple couldn’t even agree on an implementation of RCS until just this year, and that’s not even remotely the same as Apple allowing Android access to iMessage.
diamondpredator@reddit
Apple recently updated their phones to RCS messaging (which is what Google phones use) and joined the 21st century.
Recoil42@reddit
Because Google had no leverage. Google now has leverage, via Android Automotive specifically. It won't be full leverage, and will still likely imply a bridge. (It is still not the same as Android-native iMessage.)
No one's saying that'll be the case.
candre23@reddit
FTFY
daveinthe6@reddit
and best of luck when the installed tech is obsolete in 3 years...
ProbablySatirical@reddit
Lmfao yeah that’s a shining endorsement for a GM android based UI. “Android auto sucks so we need our own in house Android based system” 😂🤡
Meanwhile I just plug my iPhone in and it works flawlessly. I have legitimately never once had an issue with CarPlay wired or wireless over multiple vehicles. Can’t speak for Android Auto.
Snarkranger@reddit
I don't use the Google ecosystem and I have no interest in doing so. CarPlay works fantastically well, isn't buggy in the slightest, and upgrades the hardware every time I upgrade my phone.
If GM or anyone else thinks that their car is more important to my life than my smartphone, they're smoking crack.
duderos@reddit
They are about to find out when their sales drop off a cliff.
BeepBangBraaap@reddit
Interestingly, AA is somewhat buggy in our Subaru and Ford but works flawlessly in the aftermarket Pioneer head unit in our weekend car
I'm guessing this is more of an issue with the automaker OEM HW/SW than it is with AA itself
Vulnox@reddit
I don’t want an android OS in my head unit but even if you do that isn’t their “plan”. Their plan is to create an environment using an android system so you have to buy your services from them so they can collect subscription fees.
There’s a significant distinction there you are for some reason ignoring. It being an android system wouldn’t prevent them from implementing CarPlay. Ford is implementing CarPlay with their android based system.
GM wants a piece of your subscriptions. That’s the plan.
delebojr@reddit
Exactly! Even if the implementation is buggy right now (it's getting better), it's a whole lot easier to fix bugs seen on just a few systems rather than 1 of hundreds (or thousands) of phone models.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
And Google has a terrible track record of updating OS versions, relative to Apple. When it’s mostly tied to the car, instead of to your phone, you’re dependent on Google/GM to provide updates so that the latest apps will still work well. You don’t have that problem with Android Auto/CarPlay.
GOAT_SAMMY_DALEMBERT@reddit
Sounds like they could have cut out the middle man and directly used Google’s own platform. I really don’t trust GM in any capacity here.
To me, right off the bat it’s an extremely bad look that that to sell the value add of this move GM is looking to OnStar, of all things, a notoriously overpriced, ineffective subscription service.
delebojr@reddit
They did use Google's platform. It's called "Android Automotive"
rwbronco@reddit
My V60 has Android Automotive and also has CarPlay
omega552003@reddit
Calling bullshit, AA is such a clunky mess in standard Chevy cars. CarPlay is plugnplay
delebojr@reddit
Android Automotive is play without plug. It looks better than CarPlay on their newer vehicles (better integration, the UI isn't bloated/overly large, etc) and there's no noticeable lag
Recoil42@reddit
Not 'largely' Google. It IS Google. GM's Ultifi IVI is literally Android Automotive.
delebojr@reddit
There are some customizations to it (like Samsung would do to Android for the Galaxy) which is why I used the word "largely"
kmj442@reddit
This is true but I still trust “generic” phone provided infotainment significantly more than targeted sw development where the development largely stops at release and is then barely maintained. With a phone driven infotainment you’re UI/support goes hand in hand with the device driving it, not the display. That means if you drive a car for 10 years but upgrade your phone every 2 years you’ll get most of the advancements in the UI from 5 phone/10 os updates. “Most” updates because there are bound to be things that need updated channels of communication for them to work properly.
Hine__@reddit
It's not targeted development. They are using Android automotive. Gets lots of updates OTA as the software is developed by Google and is as "generic" as your phone.
I have this in my vehicle and it pretty much works just like Android auto without the phone requirement. You go into the play store and download apps like Spotify, audible, ect. It connects to Google directly for updates, uses Google maps for navigation.
Also, new phones don't make a difference for Android auto and (I think) carplay, as they are just apps, so every phone is going to run the same version.
kmj442@reddit
I have it in my car as well but you keep your car longer than your phone. When the car is just the “display” for the most part it’s nicer to have brains in the newer device. I understand that you won’t necessarily get everything from newer updates/support depending on what the car can do but I’m willing to bet you’ll get more updates than what android automotive pushes in cars.
ZannX@reddit
I'm... actually ok with it. Seems seamless on my C8. Just confuses me since it looks identical to Android Auto UI.
timelessblur@reddit
Real kicker is it is just a simple flag change to support car play.
Basically support Carplay/ Android Auto = true boom works no ever effort required.
biciklanto@reddit
Well it's Android Automotive OS, which is pretty excellent in Volvo cars.
So it's not like they're going it totally alone.
CrownSeven@reddit
And which also includes carplay in polestars.
biciklanto@reddit
Yep, Android Automotive as an operating system supports CarPlay. It's a great OS.
CrownSeven@reddit
Which is great, you can android, and carplay as well. Why won't GM just do what Volvo has done and let carplay run as an app? Works just fine in my experience.
MachKeinDramaLlama@reddit
Because GM partnered with Google to get an AAOS-based infotainment system written by Google bespoke for GM, while Geely just took the publicly available AAOS and built their own infotainment system on top of it. It seems Google insisted on keeping carplay out of GM's infotainment, while they couldn't do shit about Geely integrating it in theirs.
biciklanto@reddit
I give it a non-zero change that that's the final outcome— because they're building on Android Automotive OS, and Carplay is a feature of that operating system, they will permit plug-in devices as Volvo does it.
Recoil42@reddit
To be clear: When you say this, keep in mind the full list of brands using Android vs not using Android:
Using it:
Not using it:
biciklanto@reddit
Thank you, I didn't realize that many are now using the OS. Cheers!
AJam@reddit
Not to mention the latter is going to charge you a subscription to use it
HOONIGAN-@reddit
GMs latest infotainment is Android Automotive based.
DavidAg02@reddit
Which in my wife's Volvo is amazing. Best infotainment I've ever used and doesn't require you to hook up your phone at all. You can still use CarPlay if you want to.
wh1pp3d@reddit
*Google Automotive Services
TheR1ckster@reddit
GM was a large player in the early data/computer days. A lot of people don't know that.
toad_salesman@reddit
Nokia was a large player in the early cell phone days.
Dmoan@reddit
Nokia is still a big player in cell phone networks .
toad_salesman@reddit
Irrelevant
Dmoan@reddit
Irrelevant they are building 5G network 🤦♂️
toad_salesman@reddit
Irrelevant to the analogy and the entire context of this comment thread
MaxPres24@reddit
I barely trust GM to make cars anymore (from a Chevy owner)
OhSillyDays@reddit
The head unit is critical technology for cars nowadays. If GM can't pony up the cash to develop a good head unit, they basically would let Apple run the most important part of their business. And then the question becomes, why buy a GM car when you can get a Nissan, that is cheaper, with the thing I want, Android auto or Apple Carplay?
mikeycp253@reddit
Honestly as much as I wish they would just support CarPlay/Android Auto, the GM infotainment is actually pretty nice.
probsdriving@reddit
Nobody bitches about the Tesla UI (for the most part) — this is just an extension of that.
I really don’t understand why r/cars is so bitchy about this decision. Fully integrated systems have the potential to be a lot better compared to a piggyback like AA/AC.
Go rent a Polestar 2 for like $7 a day if don’t believe me. Google is built into it and Android Auto is basically redundant.
GOAT_SAMMY_DALEMBERT@reddit
Tesla is a tech company. I’d have a lot more trust in them in this area than General Motors.
I’ve said in a reply previously, but I don’t believe GM is going to beat any of the legacy tech companies at their own game. Who knows, maybe they’ll make me eat my words, but pointing to OnStar as an example of a successful automotive service already leads me to believe GM is starting off on the wrong foot.
probsdriving@reddit
It’s Google OS dude. You don’t need to trust GM with anything. They’re not going to be the ones pushing updates.
GOAT_SAMMY_DALEMBERT@reddit
That’s fair, then. I’m not gonna pretend to be a software engineer and in tune to the specifics of how the software will be handled. However, maybe I’m mistaken, but it seems to me the entire point of this move is to give GM more control in how they design and craft the software, which rings alarm bells to me after owning and working on GM vehicles throughout the decades. I want them as far away from anything tech related as possible. They cite the belief they can innovate faster than Google or Apple in this article, lol.
In my experience, AA and CarPlay are free solutions that other manufacturers utilize extreme well for my use cases. It’s a bit crazy to me GM is disabling their accessibility entirely to force their proprietary software. But hey, maybe I’ll eat my words.
Snarkranger@reddit
What's that integrated, non-upgradable system in the Polestar 2 going to be like in 5 years?
"I don't care, I'm on a 3-year lease" is not an acceptable answer to me. I don't lease cars.
probsdriving@reddit
About as well as a 10 year old infotainment runs Apple CarPlay, probably.
According_Flow_6218@reddit
I disagree about the fully integrated system. The usable lifetime of a car is multiples longer than a phone. In 10 years you’re going to be stuck with whatever hardware was originally in that car. You’ll probably have gone through between 2-10 phones in that time.
golfzerodelta@reddit
History has proved these “integrated” systems don’t work because car companies can’t adapt as quickly and cobble together off-the-shelf components that don’t work perfectly together. Every past infotainment and navigation unit pales in comparison to hooking up your phone to the car. Why should we expect it to be any different moving forward?
probsdriving@reddit
Because GM is making the system?
How are those old Teslas doing btw? (Just fine)
redking315@reddit
I hate it because I don't want the OS for my car that I can't not use to be developed by an advertising company and that the car company can scrape even more data from to sell since the car itself will be connecting to GPS and cell networks instead of my phone. It has nothing to do with the quality of the OS itself and everything to do with privacy.
probsdriving@reddit
People who bemoan privacy concerns on social media make my eyes roll so far back into my head I see brain cells die.
They’ve already won.
Source: I spend a shit ton of money on online advertising and worked for the advertising division of everyone’s favorite company.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Rent a Cadillac Lyriq - it is WAY better than even the Polestar 2. (same platform, but newer software and faster hardware)
imjoeking69@reddit
Their infotainment is 100% Google with a GM skin over it
COPOC10@reddit
I have high conviction that GM is destroying itself with the garbage they put out.
maxxor6868@reddit
Engineer here. This is a stupid for one sole reason:life support. Pretty much any phone will have updated carplay or android auto. You can have multiple phones or just upgrade. Whether this system lasts 5 or 10 years (and knowing car companies they push for 5) you be stuck with it when the software ends. Your also at the mercy of GM. For instance new ceo comes in and wants to "cut costs". They lay off the team working on the software. Now your stuck for a head unit that won't be easy accessible. Look at the Spotify unit they sold on cars. Didn't sell and software completely cut off. With carplay and Android auto, you know the two software giants will keep it running as long as they can and you can just switch your device.
bozoconnors@reddit
YUP. Given the political climate... even THIS is one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen lately...
Are... are you joking? Because... they were innovating so fast before those were available? STAHP GM... go home! You're drunk!!
I've driven GM's for literally decades. This is like a politician that's been in office for 20 years, promising you they're going to do something when they're reelected, that they've refused to do in the previous 20 years.
I've had great luck with my GM's, but 'infotainment screen' innovation?... lol. Eh... nah.
w-v-w-v@reddit
It’s not just that it’s ridiculous, it doesn’t make any sense. Having CarPlay and Android Auto support doesn’t stop them from doubt anything. It’s just a lie.
MomsSpagetee@reddit
I really liked the Product/Program Management discussion at the start of this pod so I thought he would have some good points but he really blew it with the hard CarPlay questions from Nilay toward the middle/end.
This is the gist of it, from the end: "Deeply vertically integrated experience that GM designs for our customers, builds it, maintains it, updates it, innovates on [it]."
Who...the hell...wants or expects GM to do that? Then he mentioned GM building a voice assistant. LOL
iroll20s@reddit
Its not just the OS. What is fun is they'll stop updating it and then the apps move on. The version of the OS is no longer compatible with the app and eventually the old app version just stop working. That's happened to me on an android head unit that stopped getting support before.
Or its just some niche branch the app team doesn't want to support so they slow roll features. AppleTV has a Terrible youtube app and had/has a terrible primetv due to that.
Terrible_Shelter_345@reddit
this. This is a CEO and a team of execs creating a golden parachute.
Push software forward for half a decade. Deploy. Falsify hype, smudge initial sales numbers. Then -- GTFO on a golden parachute before all the bad financials come in.
candre23@reddit
Infotainment has been a thing for what, about two decades now? In all that time, GM has never managed to come up with anything even remotely usable, let along good.
But Apple and Google are holding you back? Bitch, you holding yourself back.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
Engineer also here. Your comment is stupid for a key reason: GM makes itself a slave to Apple.
If Apple wants GM to do something or it will pull CarPlay support, GM now has to capitulate.
If Apple puts out a trash update, its GM's customers who suffer.
GM is sacrificing itself to Apple long term via royalties.
etc etc etc.
poopoomergency4@reddit
i'd much rather apple have that control over GM, than GM allowed to run wild in their quest for annual recurring revenue
Whatcanyado420@reddit
Apple can also impose subscriptions as they already do…
poopoomergency4@reddit
i'd pay for carplay years before i even considered paying for GM's worse bullshit version of it
Whatcanyado420@reddit
Sure. Personally I find CarPlay to be just okay. I welcome other competitors. I specifically don’t like how Apple handles lossless audio.
poopoomergency4@reddit
there's definitely room for carplay to get some competition. just not GM for very practical "they suck" reasons, or google for antitrust reasons.
if this actually plays out how GM/google hope, they're just icing out apple from this market and eventually get lazy, that's good for nobody.
maxxor6868@reddit
That would be a viable point problem is that Apple and Google both support much longer support than any car company has for tech. Look at GM long history of different software solutions. One of Cadillac major brand revivals was ditching their horrible os. Could Apple or Google bail out? They could. Would they? Not for the near for seeable future. Meanwhile GM will now be using an android skin that Google is less likely to support long term because it not the main source of Android Auto and puts all the sources into GM who is a traditional auto maker known for cutting corners. GM is now at the mercy of GM who could throw everything away with their next ceo change. There a reason the entire industry was push into using this software. It just works better than anything Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc can come up since they make cars not software. It the main reason carplay and Android auto came out but please consider rmy point stupid.
Chippy569@reddit
apple just released iOS 18, which has dropped support for iPhone 8. the iPhone 8 was available from 2017-late 2019-2020. You could very much have a 4 year old phone right now that can't get the latest version of iOS.
maxxor6868@reddit
Even if an iPhone stops getting the latest iOS updates, CarPlay still works fine. Apple doesn’t break CarPlay compatibility with older iOS versions, so you don’t need the latest iPhone or iOS for CarPlay to function well in your car. CarPlay’s design and functionality are pretty stable across different iOS versions, so support isn’t cut off even if the phone stops getting major OS updates. Similar to android auto they are apps. My android hasnt got updates in over a year but android auto has had several updates through the app itself.
Chippy569@reddit
so what exactly did you mean by
then?
maxxor6868@reddit
Are you going to continue to ignore my comments above and just listen to yourself? As I said previously they support the app even if the physical device no longer gets support. They have that incentive to do so. Unlike GM which does not see individuals apps as support but one team with apps under their umbrella because they don't have the same rwosuces to compete. Eventually that team will get shutdown or transfer. Meanwhile Apple and Google which have been increasing IOS and Android update lifecycles as phone progression has slow, can offer app support for years past the original design phase. GM won't and can't do this. That why it is pointless. You can still download Facebook on pretty much any android device from the last decade. How many old car os still run? They don't. They are laggy messes with no support past car launch and service updates were almost non existent.
Chippy569@reddit
I know firsthand this isn't true. I use an ipod touch as a shop tool. I can't install Outlook on it because the version of iOS is too old. I can't update a couple of our shop apps like truvideo because the app updates require an ios update. and that's from 2020, so it's not even that old.
maxxor6868@reddit
It’s true that certain apps eventually require newer OS versions, but CarPlay itself doesn’t work like individual apps that stop supporting old OS versions. CarPlay’s core compatibility stays steady across many iOS versions, meaning it will continue working in your car even if you’re on an older iOS. While standalone apps like Outlook or FLIR might need updates to work, CarPlay doesn’t have those same frequent compatibility cutoffs. So, even with an older iPhone or iOS, you’re less likely to lose CarPlay functionality in your vehicle. Remember that Apple and Google running those apps have the incentive to get as many people to use it as possible. Something niche like the FLIR is not the same. Android is better than IOS in that regard because you can easily downgrade or upgrade depending on your needs but Apple has a long history of quality long term support for their apps and services. They aren't perfect but better than GM would.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
You just repeated your argument and ignored every counterpoint.
And other companies push this because they think paying the royalty is worth it. That’s the only reason.
Terrible_Shelter_345@reddit
No shit? Every company is going to be a slave to another company.
Apple and Google just need a screen and some chips to integrate to a car.
GM would need an entire software engineering department to recreate the seamlessness of mobile OS integration to their cars in the way Apple/Google have done.
Of course they're a slave to CarPlay/Android Auto. They had a 20 year headstart.
DrZedex@reddit
GM has never been overburdened with legacy support costs! /s
ViperThreat@reddit
I mean, the same can be said about carplay/android auto too. Earlier generations of both did not support wireless, and they were somewhat buggy. Modern versions of the software require new firmware that include wifi chips.
This is one of the reasons I prefer to buy mid-2000s vehicles. My 20-year-old subarus both have wireless android auto, and before that I was mirroring my phone via pioneer appradio + ar unchained.
This is possible because my cars have a standardized double-dinn stereo deck, so swapping them out is easy and painless.
Conversely, every modern car on the market now has an integrated can-bus + proprietary headunit. You can't replace them without buying a proprietary headunit, or finding a way to relocate controls elsewhere.
My ex bought a 2018 STI and we couldn't upgrade the stereo because the stereo was also the control center for a number of car features such as hill start assist. Unplug the stereo = check engine light + limp mode.
I think this is a misnomer. Apple and google are both kings in the world of planned obsolescence.
duderos@reddit
Agreed. It's purely about having access to our data and profits from the subscription model which GM projects to be 25 billion a year by 2030.
hecho2@reddit
I don’t do long road trips.
Apple Car is nice and convenient, but honestly more and more just having the phone, which has a big screen, in a stand early to reach and look is more then enough for me
The_Dyff@reddit
Recently had a road trip in a Tesla. If they can make their software THAT good, then sure, I'm in.
Here's the issue: I know it won't be.
1-800-ImBored@reddit
Personally would be totally open to an alternative if I liked it better, let them try 🤷♀️
Bubbafett33@reddit
GM will fail at this, because the source of all infotainment--and the connection to the internet--is still on the phone. So no matter what, Apple and Android will still have the ultimate say in how well GM cars work with mobile devices.
I wonder why he's not just honest, and say "because licensing Carplay is expensive"?
dissss0@reddit
Not defending GM for a minute here, but their idea is that the car will have its own internet connection (indeed most modern cars do)
Bubbafett33@reddit
Most modern cars have a connection that is used very sparingly. Streaming Spotify isn't something GM is going to offer for free. Are you willing to pay a monthly fee for your car's infotainment system to connect to the internet?
Or perhaps they cover the fee, and sell your driving habits to insurance companies, your music habits to marketers and the content of your communications to retailers?
dissss0@reddit
No I'm not going to pay for a phone plan for my car, point is GM would like me to
time-lord@reddit
I read somewhere that carplay licenses are free.
AlbertaAcreageBoy@reddit
GM software boss, you are an idiot.
Soylent_Green_Tacos@reddit
I have a Tesla. I have a not-Tesla with carplay. Carplay is awful in comparison. It's menu-hell. If you want to do something you have to click four buttons. Want to pause your podcast? OK click podcast, wait for it to load then click the button on the top right, wait for it to load again then click pause.
Want to change a climate setting? Exit carplay. Go to the garbage-tier OS from 1990. Navigate through that and clikc the shit. Then re-open carplay so you can manage your media or see maps.
It's too damn much. Maps aren't even the base-level view.
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Snarkranger@reddit
If I want to pause my podcast I just click the button on my Mazda's steering wheel which... pauses the audio?
Soylent_Green_Tacos@reddit
No I'm saying the carplay car has a much more complicated way to pause it. Mazda did it right - literally none of the other manufacturers did.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Here's a crazy idea. It will blow your mind.
What if, and I know this crazy, but what if your vehicle has physical buttons for volume, next/previous track, and climate control?
solomonsays18@reddit
Just because you have conviction in an idea doesn’t mean it isn’t stupid.
Vcr2017@reddit
Dumbasses.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
I feel like people are going a little bonkers here. It reminds me of a moment in an All Things D interview between Walt Mossburg and Steve Jobs about Flash on the iPad in 2010.
Walt asks repeatedly about Steve's reluctance to put flash on the iPad, asking if they were locking out compatibility and choice.
Steve eventually, rather frustratedly, says something like "Customers are paying us to make choices. If they like the product, they will buy it! If they don't, they wont! It will all just figure itself out. I have to tell you Walt, customers seem to be really liking their iPads!"
GM is going to do this thing. They will need to make a product that is legitimately better than Carplay at key things like navigation and music. If they succeed, they will not be limited by the abilities of Carplay and will have a unique product. If they fail, they will need to add it back to sell enough cars. It will actually work itself out. I'm just glad that someone is actually doing something risky like this that actually can help improve things. Carplay currently has zero reason to get better, no competition. You'll keep buying an iPhone with iMessage lock in, you won't buy a new car for a better infotainment experience if it won't change anything.
As someone who currently owns a Tesla (it is a 2018, don't worry, I've lost a TON of money on the thing haha) and has been comparing a 2024 Cadillac Lyriq to replace it...I was shocked to realize that Carplay today is legitimately worse than GM's Google Maps app. It all scales so weirdly and poorly. Carplay is basically designed for 5 inch displays and stretched onto 20 inch screens. Google maps on the Lyriq is fantastic.
This very take is repeated by every person who ever actually uses the modern AAOS system. "Hey, wow, that was WAY better than I expected"
Celodurismo@reddit
So they need to do better (can't just meet, they have to exceed, significantly) than google/apple maps, spotify, various music apple, audible, etc, etc. That's a tall order for an area (car software) that has always been extremely lacking. Oh and not only do they need a better user experience it needs to cost the same aka FREE.
That's fair. I do appreciate taking a risk and trying something new. Everything about this still seems like a terrible decision
Frankly I don't want it to succeed because carplay is a good enough experience for me even if there's no reason for apple to innovate. I don't want every other brand to follow suite, to have to deal with a different ecosystem every time I get a new car, all with their own unique failings and shortcomings (apple/android have their own too).
Recoil42@reddit
They don't need to do that at all. Spotify is already on Android Automotive. Nothing needs to be exceeded whatsoever, it just has to exist, which it does.
Celodurismo@reddit
Oh I must’ve misread. So they’re going to pay to play with android automotive instead of supporting free to use CarPlay. Yeah pure brain dead decision
Bluecolt@reddit
I can corroborate one thing you point out. My GMC Yukon has the Google infotainment and also still has carplay and android auto capability. I have the data package, so I can switch back-and-forth between the built-in GM/Google Maps view and the Google Maps view as passed-through Android Auto for a direct A-B comparison. Like you mention, the built-in GM/Google Maps is legitimately better proportioned for the screen and overall looks better than the pass-through.
Does it look better enough over Android Auto/Car Play to justify an additional subscription? That is highly subjective, it was for me though. If they keep improving it, it will be worth it to some people. However, I still think it's anti-consumer to drop AA/CP. The current generation non-EV GMs have both built-in Google and the pass-through AA/CP capability, so it's obviously possible to provide both options, with dropping AA/CP being a thing just to force people into the subscription.
Voltron_The_Original@reddit
I'm an Android user and I think this is a stupid idea. Why give your potential customer base a reason not to buy your product?
Snoo93079@reddit
This will probably get downvoted because Reddit doesn't like actual discussion, but I think its the right move. YES, there are some downsides to leaving carplay, but as a user of the Tesla OS the single integrated ecosystem is great. I don't have to hop back and forth between platforms to manage my car. It's all right there. My navigation software knows everything about my car. I get in and everything is set to me without a single thought. It's just perfectly seamless.
He talks about this in the podcast if you actually listen to it.
HailOfHarpoons@reddit
You're mad if you think taking away options is a good thing.
Snoo93079@reddit
I think there's often a valid argument to trade options for refined user experience.
HailOfHarpoons@reddit
But there is no reason to trade - you can have both a good built-in infotainment and the ability to connect to AA/CarPlay. The cost to the manufacturer should be miniscule (hundreds of USD at most, but probably tens of USD).
Intentionally taking it away is never for the benefit of the customer.
Snoo93079@reddit
fair!
GregAllAround@reddit
Tesla’s integration is nice, but what isn’t nice is paying 10$ a month for the privilege of… connecting my existing streaming accounts with my car? It’s an obvious cash grab and not something I plan on doing on more than one vehicle if i have to.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
The $10/mo is for cellular internet connectivity only. It fully supports doing all of the same features from your phone's hotspot instead for free.
It costs $15 a month to get cellular connectivity on an Apple watch, GM isn't making a killing on selling $40K cars just so they can get $10 a month.
GregAllAround@reddit
Sorry- but a 40k car with carplay has pretty much all the functionality of one of these integrated systems that still require some type of 10-15 cellular connection charge (however you choose to do it.) Automakers wouldn’t make this type of changeover if there wasn’t a profit to be made. They aren’t your friends, they don’t improve things for the sake of improving them. They do it because it will be profitable.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Counter - Selling a car with a better infotainment system than others IS profitable to a much larger scale. I have no illusion that these companies are your friends. People sure do seem to be forgetting the other companies is involved here though...
What you really should be asking is this:
Why are Apple and Google giving you Carplay and Android Auto...for free?
It's so they can make sure that every single app purchase and sale goes though them. It is so Apple can get you to pay $40/mo for Apple one and buy their $800-$1000 phone and be locked into iMessage. It is all the same profiteering but we applaud it and say stuff like "It if doesn't have car play I wont buy it!!!" just like they want you to.
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candre23@reddit
I already have a cellular internet connection in my pocket. Fuck GM and any other car maker who wants me to pay again for something I already have.
Mnudge@reddit
That’s just it. You’re looking at it as the OS needing to be dedicated to the car.
Our lives are now centered around one or two operating systems. Our phone OS and our work/personal OS.
Make your car fit the OS’s that the world wants. Don’t force the world into your niche one-off product.
We will be particularly resistant to the real intent of these systems.
The real intent is not to make the car work better, it’s to add another revenue stream where you can’t operate your vehicle without a subscription.
candre23@reddit
I don't have anything to add, I'm just quoting this in case anybody didn't read all the way to the bottom of your post to understand what this is actually about.
GregAllAround@reddit
Yep- GM wants to generate revenue from turning themselves into a Data Broker. Apple Carplay usually prevents automakers from getting metadata on what music you are listening to, what you are searching for in your infotainment, etc. But once you link an account within an integrated OS like this, they gain access to that and can sell it or use it however they please.
I understand that some people (maybe even most people) don’t care that much about that- but if theyre like Tesla they’re literally gonna charge you for the privilege to sell your data. Such a fucking scam lol
Snoo93079@reddit
I'm sure there is some revenue potential here, but not as much as Reddit thinks. As cars become more intelligent integrated, it's only natural that you want to have a single cohesive software stack.
Look at it from the perspective of people like the guy being interviewed here. His goal is to deliver a seamless customer experience. He says it in the podcast. He wants to hide the complixity, hide the friction. The last thing you want is to have to consider the user behavior on the car side (car management, navigation, audio, etc) AND a whole separate ecosystem the user has to bounce back and forth between.
GregAllAround@reddit
He’s a fucking GM exec, his goal is to drive revenue and increase profit first. Everything else comes second to that
Snoo93079@reddit
Well, yeah. But there's a reason GM brought in a guy with product management background at places like Apple.
I manage the Technology at my org, and my goal is to make my org an amazing place to work with and in my world, that means having a great digital experience. I imagine you approach your job like that too, ya? You represent your org, but your an evangelist for the great customer experience because you know if the customer has a great experience that advances the goals of the org.
GregAllAround@reddit
My “org” is driven by profit and I would lose my job if I wasn’t generating revenue or value. By our metrics, how much the product is improved is measured by how much pipeline we are generating and in turn what we can upsell to clients. The “quality” of the product is simply a product of the feedback from people who are paying for it.
Do you seriously think people are going to walk into a GM showroom, look at a $50,000 vehicle without CarPlay, and be thrilled? Listen to literally any vehicle salesman posting in here right now- they’ve all lost sales from people who wanted this as an option in their vehicle. Can you say that GM will be able to replace customers like that with people that are genuinely thrilled with a super high tech infotainment system? Because I’m betting customers who are thrilled by that aren’t even going to be looking at GM products to begin with.
Snoo93079@reddit
Yeah, obviously I don't know what industry you're in, but I'm very much aware of commodity type industries that prioritize driving down costs over customer experience. I used to work with the metals industry and it drove me nuts how little they thought about customer experience. There was some companies looking to innovate but so many of them were family owned companies doing things the same way they've always done it. Call them on the phone if you want something, almost no investments in their digital experience. There were a few though that had more vision and I enjoyed working with those folks.
I see a lot of similarities here in the car industry. Companies like GM are huge and its sooo hard to innovate and change corporate culture. I think that's why you're seeing VW creating Scout as a wholly new independent company.
I'm fortunate currently to be working for a younger place that really focuses on the customer experience and I feel empowered to advocate for new ways to refine that customer experience. I hope one day you do too!
JournalistExpress292@reddit
Other than Apple Music I only use my BMW’s iDrive because it’s integrated to the car and follows the same design language/wtv you call it.
Definitely nicer aesthetic wise, and features being integrated is a plus, never had an issue. Apple CarPlay is also annoying to use with a knob and touchscreen-only infotainments are lame
bozoconnors@reddit
I don't know how people don't get that. Guy in the article even touts the 'success' of OnStar (a subscription I've never bothered with - GM owner for decades), and SuperCruise (yet another subscription charge after the first 3 years I believe).
They're drunk on the subscriptions.
SciGuy013@reddit
You literally have to hop back and forth between your phone's OS and your car's OS. CarPlay and Android Auto mean you don't have to.
Snoo93079@reddit
Not sure what you mean. I don't touch my phone when I'm driving my car. I get in my car and Tesla loads my Youtube Music account. My wife gets in and her Spotify account loads. Everything I do is in my car's OS
SciGuy013@reddit
There's much more than just music. I use CarPlay for weather on the route, native messaging and phone apps, a variety of different navigation apps (Waze, Apple Maps, onX Offroad), podcasts, etc. I am not limited to the apps that Tesla has decided to include.
Snoo93079@reddit
Apple podcasts is on Tesla but yes there are reduced app choices. That's absolutely the best argument against relying on your car OS, for sure.
For people like me who just need music, podcasts, navigation, texting... it's great. But if you need something more unique it won't be available.
TheR1ckster@reddit
Yeah they don't do that around here. Lol
__-__-_-__@reddit
What apple fees? Carplay is free for everybody involved in the process except Apple.
TheR1ckster@reddit
I'm talking about the manufacturers end. I'm pretty confident the manufacturers have to license the software from Apple. Where as android is open source.
__-__-_-__@reddit
There’s no such licensing fee. It’s free.
TheR1ckster@reddit
Til. Did some digging and they could start to anytime they wanted.
__-__-_-__@reddit
They’ll only do that once people are beholden too carplay. OEMs making alternatives will ensure that will never happen.
Snarkranger@reddit
I am not going to center my life around my car's ecosystem.
Snoo93079@reddit
I definitely don't think my life is centered around my car's ecosystem. For example, I use youtube music and when I get in my car my youtube music account loads. When my wife gets in her car her Spotify account loads.
MembershipNo2077@reddit
It's GM, if they didn't have AA and Carplay and were coming back to it we'd have a thread bitching about it. Basically anything they do is bait for this sub to get angry about their existence. When some reliability ranking showed Buick being more reliable than everything except Toyota, people were doing backflips to explain it away.
jawnnyboy@reddit
I feel the same way about everything you described but with wireless apple CarPlay. On top of this, this is the case for all the cars in my garage since they’re all using the same phone and also rental cars. All apps are organized in the same way in every car for me and all my navigation favourites are also in every car; given they have apple CarPlay.
Dull_Conclusion6554@reddit
“GM needs more control over the user experience inside of the car in order to build some of the features and services he has on the roadmap — and that handing over the displays of the car to Apple and Google simply won’t allow the company to innovate fast enough” Basically how would they extract extra money from the user if he gets everything he wants through another provider. Additionally, they want the whole cake, so having the user data and selling it privately generates good amount of money.
4N8NDW@reddit
We don’t want to be forced into their shitty subscription…CarPlay or bust. I will not buy any GM product that does not have CarPlay/Android Auto.
BipolarMeHeHe@reddit
Exactly. I'm not paying a subscription fee when my phone can do better for free.
DirtieHarry@reddit
My phone doesn't do it for free. I paid for my phone and its subscription costs me money every month. I don't need another subscription when I already own that functionality. GM wants to milk everyone again.
time-lord@reddit
You can use carplay with a phone that doesn't have any subscriptions on it.
AJam@reddit
I think they mean they're leasing their device, sorta like a subscription to own the phone.
chiggenNuggs@reddit
More likely the data/cell plan to use the phone
DirtieHarry@reddit
Thats exactly what I meant. I think people forget everything they're paying for.
prism1234@reddit
Would be much less useful without an internet connection though, which requires a subscription to a cell phone plan.
tacomonday12@reddit
Well, I pirate everything. Including Revanced with YT Music. So it's either free shit with AA or pay GM not only the subscription fee for apps but a percentage commission on top to use that shit on my car. Geez, I wonder which option I'll pick.
kumaku@reddit
it’s a shame too since i like the uaw
Weareallaroundgaming@reddit
You won’t buy GM because of no Car Play.
I won’t buy GM because their quality is horrendous.
We are not the same.
econ_dude_@reddit
I drive an early 2000s truck. You drive an early 2000s truck. We are not the same.
-2003 cateye 5.3L that drives like a beauty
4N8NDW@reddit
I wanted to buy a used Chevy Volt but what scared me was the fact that the EGR and BCEM were on massive back order.
sasquatch_melee@reddit
I sold my Volt last year when it first started showing signs of weakness with the battery. I had planned to keep it for another 4-9 years if I could. Parts availability is absolutely abysmal and I'm very apprehensive of owning an out of warranty EV again because of it (and I won't spend the kind of money required to buy a new one).
It's bad enough if the repair is expensive. It's even worse when its completely impossible because the manufacturer has abandoned the model. Between repair cost, rapid technology changes, qualified technicians, and parts availability, I think the industry has an issue with aging EVs. Economically they're probably going to be mechanically totaled if anything major fails.
Chippy569@reddit
backordered parts? In this industry?! No way.
sasquatch_melee@reddit
It's backordered for months or years with no ETA. I believe I saw someone get an ~8yr old Volt bought back by GM headquarters over this recently. It's that bad.
4N8NDW@reddit
It’s one thing to have it on back order…for the volt it’s different. They’ve stopped caring about their customers. Go on the volt subreddit and read all the horror stories about people being unable to use their car for over a year. That actually pushed me to buy a used Toyota Prius Prime instead of a Chevy Volt.
donniedumphy@reddit
Yup these morons discount the fact that a growing majority of car buyers are looking at screen real estate and wireless airplay as their number one criteria for buying a car.
Whisktangofox@reddit
You can buy an adapter for about $50 on Amazon.
argent_pixel@reddit
Or just buy a car from a company that gives consumers what they want.
Whisktangofox@reddit
They did, I want a new Corvette. I think I can live with an adapter.
spekt50@reddit
I had a feeling car companies would start down this path at some point. When I got my first car that had android auto, I immediately thought, what fool would pay for the navigation package now?
654456@reddit
If gm software wasn't so trash, maybe
Skeptical0ptimist@reddit
This is a folly.
How much of GM RnD budget can they afford to spend on information tech development?
Apple spends virtually all their RnD budget on information tech development. Google spends virtually all their RnD budget on information tech development. Also, they are no slouches in their business.
In the past, other companies tried to take business away from Apple and Google, and failed. Microsoft tried and failed, despite info tech is their bread and butter. Nokia tried and failed, despite mobile device is their bread and butter.
So GM wants to go after these 2 companies with less budget and much less experience under the belt. It's very likely GM will repeat Nokia's and Microsoft's efforts.
TheR1ckster@reddit
They're using google/android based. It's basically just sticking a tablet on the car.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
As opposed to CarPlay which is sticking a monitor on a car?
Recoil42@reddit
CarPlay is video streamed from your phone. It implies no significant onboard processing, just a (wireless) video input path.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
Ok?
TheR1ckster@reddit
It's a monitor that has to integrate with a lot of different unique traits to what it's in. Mazda for example struggles because they don't use a touchscreen.
FLHCv2@reddit
It's not though. It's no different than a custom ROM that a company like Amazon uses for their fire tablets. The base layer might be android automotive, but the flavor can differ wildly depending on the implementation. GM could still easily fuck it up and create a buggy mess with terrible UI.
Recoil42@reddit
Yes, but they don't need to create display drivers, a bluetooth stack, an application runtime, hardware APIs, a base maps implementation, an IDE, any sort of OpenGL implementation, a binder, do memory management...
Parent commenter claimed GM was going after Apple and Google. They aren't. GM is expressly leveraging Google, and leveraging the best of it.
TheR1ckster@reddit
We have that already with the current os situation. It has to be integrated with other features from the car too.
Bombaysbreakfastclub@reddit
I just assume the profit they’ll make selling your data (Home location, frequent stops, where your kids go to school) than they will losing customers who prefer CarPlay
Kaneshadow@reddit
The determination of car manufacturers to fight the CELLULAR PHONE is mindboggling. Just lighting money on fire to try to catch up to Google Fucking Maps for a nav and subsidizing Sirius Radio for fucking decades now.
DaveTOR@reddit
I wouldn’t buy GM even with CarPlay.
RuffDemon214@reddit
This will backfire so badly…
TFiPW@reddit
The good news is, ZDX and Prologue exist for people who want an Ultium platform EV with CarPlay
Clear_Equivalent_854@reddit
Remove a hugely popular option while facing almost insurmountable competition. Smart move.....
s1ravarice@reddit
It’s weird that they don’t realise your average Joe will value CarPlay more than brand loyalty. Especially when modern cars these days are all the same:
MortimerDongle@reddit
Cars where you can install third-party apps and have their own data connections do make some sense.
But they should still enable CarPlay/Android Auto. They won't, because revenue.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
No... it doesn't.
Cars last 20+ years, only 14 years ago the iphone was released. Look at the processing power differences between then and now. We're 100x the processing power.
It literally doesn't make sense to put the software, and processing on a device that is supposed to last 20+ years on the road.
Carplay is in every sense, the most logical, user/customer feature that could ever happen.
You have
There is no situation, literally not a single one where using on-device (car) applications or software is better than carplay.
Rent a car with carplay? CONGRATS, all your contacts, destinations, and apps are on the car immediately.
I will die on this hill passionately.
Recoil42@reddit
So I'll try to put this as nicely but firmly as I can: I think you (like a lot of Redditors in these kinds of threads) aren't looking forward-enough, and have made the fundamental mistake of only considering the current problem set of common tasks in front of you, rather than the future problem set.
That is, in a sense, you don't understand why OEMs aren't skating to the puck and are instead going off in a different direction, not realizing they are skating towards where the puck will be.
Let me elaborate:
I'll give you a pretty simple example: High-resolution multi-screen interactions. The Chinese-market Li Auto L9 (one of the fastest-selling cars in China) has triple (triple!) 15.7-inch OLED displays with 3K resolution and gesture control. Audio is Dolby Atmos 7.3.4, meaning there are fourteen channels of lossless audio. The whole experience is completely connected, meaning apps and experiences can be 'flung' from one screen to another seamlessly. The car understands contextual gestures, so if you point to a window and say "hey car, close that window" it knows which window you are talking about and will close it.
You cannot power that kind of experience wirelessly — it is not possible with the state of the art, and even if it were, such a thing would quickly burn a hole in your pocket and drain your battery. You'd simply kill your phone. Now, Redditors might hate this kind of screen setup and might scream and shout "but I don't want that!!!!" — but consumers do want that (again, the Li L-Series sells like gangbusters) and this is only the start.
Take note of the Escalade IQ, which GM is packing with a main 55-inch segmented dashboard display, secondary 11.0-inch connected touchscreen for controls and settings, dual tertiary second-row connected 12.6-inch screens, and an AKG Reference 40-speaker 3D audio system.
Huawei's Aito M9 not only has a 12.3-inch instrument panel, a 75-inch 2K resolution heads-up display, a 15.6-inch centre control screen, and a 16-inch passenger entertainment display — but also four additional 10-inch seatback screens for the second and third-row passengers, an additional retractable 32-inch laser projector in the second row, and finally a twenty-five speaker 7.1.4 surround sound audio system. It is one of the fastest-selling new models in China right now, bar none.
You aren't powering this all with CarPlay. It is not happening. You need beefy compute and beefy in-house software just to make it all happen. You have to put all your chips in on the software table, and CarPlay becomes practically vestigial at that point.
I'll give you another example of a situation in which CarPlay not only does not work and is less optimal than a native, but where it is completely non-viable: Projecting a park-assist ADAS mind's-eye visual of the world into your car display. Your phone doesn't have access (and cannot realistically speaking have real-time access) to the dozen or so 8MP+ streams it would need your car to provide over a wireless connection. It won't happen. Apple's solution to this is already a tacit admission of defeat — next-gen CarPlay will simply ask automakers' software to "punch-through" and provide their own UI. Really, that's Apple's own real solution: Ask the carmakers to handle it in their own software. They gave up.
I cannot emphasize it enough: This is the future we're hurtling towards right now. There is no turning back, and it is unlikely CarPlay will play a serious role from here on out as a result. If automakers want to survive, they need to skate to where the puck is going to be, and this is where it is going.
Chippy569@reddit
rust belt: define "lasts"
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
Joke all you want, I live in Canada through salt and winters and there are plenty of cars pre 2000s driving around.
mustangfan12@reddit
I personally am pretty concerned about planned obsolesce, Tesla might be willing to do software support for 10+ year old Tesla's, but I know for a fact the legacy auto makers won't do the same. They're infamous for not updating their old infotainment systems. I much prefer an universal interface like Android Auto/Car Play and bluetooth for infotainment
Robots_Never_Die@reddit
Especially GM. There are already a lot of parts for a 2019 Corvette that you can't get any longer.
mustangfan12@reddit
Really? That's shocking, what are some examples of parts no longer available?
funnyfarm299@reddit
This is great in principle, but often poorly implemented. For example - the 2025 Accord offers Android Automotive with access to the Play Store. However, only certain apps are allowed to be installed. SiriusXM is a notable omission especially considering the car doesn't have a built-in SiriusXM tuner.
Alexa_Call_Me_Daddy@reddit
That's more on Sirius to fix, they should have an Android Automotive version of their app.
funnyfarm299@reddit
They do. It's available on Nissan and Volvo.
Mnudge@reddit
I don’t trust GM cars. Why the hell would I ever trust their technology.
HOONIGAN-@reddit
Which they very easily can do. The infotainment in their ICE-powered vehicles is the same as their EVs, but the EVs just don't have CarPlay/Android Auto enabled.
ktappe@reddit
I have a high conviction that I’m never going to buy a GM car that lacks CarPlay.
NotSquidward1@reddit
As someone who has never bothered to own a car newer than 2010 , what does car play even do that a regular ass aftermarket stereos or my phone can't
HamsterCapable4118@reddit
Video projection from phone to car display is a compromised solution so there's room to disrupt that. You can see that in the input lag in carplay and all the jank and bugs. So the idea of having a better native built in experience makes sense.
But this is already a failure before it ever launches, because companies like GM will never appreciate how much effort it takes to make a great experience. It will literally exceed their cost/effort expectations by an order of magnitude. Ya they bring in someone from Apple and pay him a ton of money to give them some street cred, but he can't change an entire corporate culture. GM has repeatedly demonstrated not just a tolerance, but rather a tradition, to ship crap.
They could have delayed the Blazer EV, given all its software issues. But they willingly let it hit the market. Can you imagine the number of executives that signed off on that. They don't have a single person there with the authority and balls to stop the line.
white2833@reddit
And THIS is part of why Ill never buy a GM vehicle. Arrogant snot defying a de facto standard.
ZeeGarage@reddit
People want CarPlay and android auto. Jot something similar that doesn’t work the same.
elgoato@reddit
This is terrible primarily because I rent several cars per year, and them all reliably having CarPlay is part of what makes them all usable.
pHNPK@reddit
It's so they can harvest and sell your data to lexis nexis and make it available to insurance companies. Don't believe the BS he's spewing.
Recent_Permit2653@reddit
I’m OK with this. I don’t want screens or connectivity, so GM doing this is way above my head and isn’t either a good or a bad thing since I’m not going to use car play or whatever it is they connive anyway.
blipsman@reddit
I have high conviction I won’t be buying any GM vehicle without CarPlay
Jaxonwht@reddit
If GM sells a new corvette for 50k but it doesn’t have CarPlay, I’m not buying it. Simple as that
341orbust@reddit
I’m thinking about one of the small GM SUVs for the next rig.
No CarPlay? No sale.
This guy’s a fucking moron.
Perfect for GM senior management.
kog@reddit
This makes me assume he's flat out unqualified to hold his position.
md517@reddit
Good thing for now it’s only the EVs which I’ll never buy. But the day they ditch CarPlay in gas models is the day I go buy something else. The interface they have in EVs is horrid and I’ll never buy a new vehicle without CP/AA. GM leadership is a joke if they think this is a good plan.
mrshardface@reddit
They are insane
PurdueGuvna@reddit
I bought a car with CarPlay (Subaru WRX), and within 6 months I replaced the head units in my other two cars to give them CarPlay. It’s transformational, and I don’t care what GM says, I’ll just buy from someone that sells what I want to buy.
funked1@reddit
The path to me never buying another GM product.
Killahdanks1@reddit
Yeah, it’s not though. I have a BMW and my wife has a Range Rover. I’m getting rid of my 3rd car and getting a truck, and if it doesn’t have CarPlay I won’t buy it. Sorry.
cec33@reddit
Hey GM, I have high conviction on not buying a car without CarPlay.
brobert123@reddit
Now it makes sense. I bought my dad a new GMC truck and while driving it to his house I noticed nav nav would only speak directions if I used the native GMC nav system. CarPlay would not speak. Most of the apps default to android also. It was super annoying to say the least. Dumb move to alienate all 50% of the buyers that use CarPlay vs android.
TruculentSuckulent@reddit
This is EXACTLY why the Automotive Industry has made zero progress for 70 fucking years. They pick dumbest fucks on the planet to run their companies.
matjam@reddit
idiot.
johnbowser_@reddit
GM when they are doing financially well as a company and they haven't shot themselves in the foot for more than 5 seconds
speeding2nowhere@reddit
🤦♂️ They always think they know better, and they never do. Not once in history have any of these dare to be different moves by GM been correct.
They aren’t Ford 🤣💯
clamfroth@reddit
I must be the only one on the planet that doesn’t like carplay. Nothing lost for me if they ditch it
MarkB1997@reddit
I just bought a car recently and CarPlay was non-negotiable along with an upgraded sound system. I use my radio 90% of the time in CarPlay with Spotify and Waze open, and I’m not looking to change that setup.
mr_lab_rat@reddit
I have a high conviction that GM is gonna be asking taxpayers to bail them out. Again.
Sprinkler-of-salt@reddit
Good luck guys. Sincerely. You’re going to need it.
baummer@reddit
Lmao okay
Watchmegetaclue@reddit
Will never buy another gm car if they do this. 👋 Another completely out of touch executive dummy
NickPookie93@reddit
It's not, but okay
Andrei95@reddit
Am I the only one that doesn't care at all? A RAM mount and any phone will do the same thing; all I need from the car is a volume control and forward/back buttons.
StandupJetskier@reddit
Uh, my wife wants carplay in her car. I think she wins, not you.
GearhedMG@reddit
Dear GM Software boss: I wish you well, in your future endeavors.
soopastar@reddit
GM is dumb. My kid just turned 16 and wanted something sporty for his first car. Turns out my sister had a Golf GLS with the 2.slow engine. Not sporty. Told him about it and he wasn’t super happy. Told him I would put in a CarPlay head unit and he did a complete 180.
BbyJ39@reddit
I have high conviction the GM software boss is a dingus
pdoherty972@reddit
How can rejecting one of the two major standards already in place be the smart play? What value will GM be bringing to the table by doing it themselves? I'm betting not much.
nukidot@reddit
Sounds high to me alright.
onetwentytwo_1-8@reddit
Axe CarPlay! My Bluetooth Roav does just fine.
dnyank1@reddit
And we have high conviction that you're wrong. I actually can't believe GM fired the last guy in charge of software, and the new guy is maintaining the course that got his predecessor fired.
Holy shit, GM can be stupid when they want to be
jvnk@reddit
CarPlay blows compared to Android Auto, but I can see why it would be better for people in general to have the options
Apical-Meristem@reddit
Yeah, no thanks.
BeeKayDubya@reddit
I have high conviction that I ain't looking at any GM products that doesn't have CarPlay.
Kentx51@reddit
I'm an android user and just BT everything, I still don't really know what I'm missing out on with aa since my phone and music run without issue by just using the BT connection.
If there is a function that would be helpful I'm all for it but never got the memo.
Celodurismo@reddit
I mean... maps? Some car software does provide free maps, some require data subscriptions.
Kentx51@reddit
I suppose that could be convenient but it's not like the phone doesn't already read that out loud.
Seems like a reasonable function to use so if AA makes that easier then maybe I'll use it next time I'm in an area I don't know.
Thanks for the suggestion.
arrastra@reddit
customers gonna ditch the GM probably, right path
arrastra@reddit
people want carplay because it gets constant updates. most of car softwares dont even get updated for once
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Hmmm, ditch an industry standard to create a proprietary system when this is not your core competency. Very odd.
CubanLinxRae@reddit
Carplay is so good Porsche sells OEM units to add to old cars like who is GM fooling
Careless_Yam_1319@reddit
It may be the right path for GM but not for their customers.
SuperGT1LE@reddit
I only like CarPlay so I can have gps without having to pay for it
Celodurismo@reddit
One of the key reasons I like carplay is because I already have a data plan. I don't want to also buy a car data plan. Now if GM includes that, for free, in perpetuity (and I trust them on that). Then okay... we're still nowhere near an acceptable value proposition.
So okay, now I can have built in maps, and have to... bluetooth my podcasts and music from my phones? They think they're going to overthrow google/apple maps, spotify/apple music, and audible all in one fell swoop. Uhh yeah I'm gunna take a big ass bet against that play.
Carplay is free for manufacturers to use (last I checked). So it's literally saving them millions in R&D from making their own system. They'll argue that they'll make more through their own system, but I find it hard to believe they'll make enough to recoup R&D costs and recoup lost customers.
Snazzy21@reddit
I'm sure in his head the words "for making more money" followed that statement. GM isn't that stupid, they have focus groups and survey customers. They know Carplay is an important feature.
They just want to be the ones who control all the telemetry data
candre23@reddit
I will never purchase a car without android auto, or that locks any hardware feature that physically exists in the car behind a subscription. There are two cars that would have been on the short list for next year when I trade in my CX5 that aren't even being considered because of that shit.
notsoentertained@reddit
"Apple and Google simply won’t allow the company to innovate fast enough" is weird way of saying "it won't let us monetize your data".
bobjr94@reddit
Yes giving the customer fewer choices always works out well. They just want do you buy data service from GM forever so everything will work.
_mattyjoe@reddit
“GM’s Baris Cetinok is committed to building a custom experience to rival that of Apple and Google.“
Yeah, this is a bad idea man. Ditching it for financial reasons? Sure. Wanting to build your own? Terrible terrible idea.
Lawineer@reddit
I have a strong conviction they’re morons
AOCMarryMe@reddit
I have high conviction that I'll never own one then.
DJAllOut@reddit
He is delusional
Extreme-Wasabi-147@reddit
I won’t purchase a car without Apple car play.
bishopredline@reddit
And when the third bailout comes let's remember that GM didn't give a shit about it's customers
brundmc2k@reddit
I bet my conviction not to buy another GM is higher than theirs to ditch car play. The new FAFO system will be great I'm sure, but I'll never use it.
usa_reddit@reddit
Yeah, and you have no conviction for long term support of your homegrown solution. In fact you probably want to make it subscription.
Support car play or face the wrath of the market. No one wants to learn yet another new clunky interface.
terryVaderaustin@reddit
that is going to be a costly and ultimately futile decision.
900BRZ@reddit
Let’s see who has higher conviction: GM or their customers.
solo118@reddit
I am not understanding what they lose by including it? It is not only a nearly perfect integration for iphone users, it also makes driving much safer with it's features to keep people's hands off the phone itself.
Right now my wife's Volvo has wired CP only, and got the new usb-c phone so have to get a new cable for it, but it is extremely inconvenient not having CP. How can GM think this is a good idea?
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
They’ve got a warped idea of their capabilities. You’re not Tesla, you’re not Rivian, you’re a brand known for rudimentary excuses for transportation that justify their existence by barely running for longer than most cars run. Nobody is ever going to trust GM to make software that doesn’t feel like operating industrial machinery over zoom via dial-up.
reward72@reddit
It is an automatic deal breaker for me. I'm not "religious" about Apple, I could have gone the Android way, but that is what I chose and it better be supported by the car I buy. Both should be standard in every car.
TheTense@reddit
They key is familiar apps and usability:
-Can I press a voice button or say “hey siri” and ask for directions and have it worn smoothly in seconds? The infotainment in my dad’s Genesis can’t, but CarPlay can.
-Can I tap or swipe with 0 lag? My dad’s Genesis can’t. CarPlay can.
-Can I use all the apps I normally use: Google maps, podcasts, Spotify, Microsoft teams with seamless usability and no lag? My dad’s Genesis can’t. CarPlay can.
Even if they could… would I be willing to pay for it? Or have to pay for another data subscription for my car? My phone is the data bridge to everything.
Jlx_27@reddit
Car makers want to force buyers into using their own software, at a cost....
p8ntballnxj@reddit
Of course he is going to say that. He and the rest of new IT leadership came from Apple.
GM isn't Apple, no matter how hard they try.
beejers30@reddit
The true definition of out of touch.
vuwildcat07@reddit
Famous last words
lectorlibrorum@reddit
What exactly is on this "roadmap" that Android/Apple would be insufficient?
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Owning the customer relationship and data so they can further rmonetize them after they've purchased their vehicle.
But that doesn't sound appealing, so they've wrapped it up in bullshit.
lectorlibrorum@reddit
You're probably right. It's why I've been contemplating removing the OnStar system from my car.
cubs223425@reddit
I have "high conviction" that ditching GM products is the right path.
overmonk@reddit
Wrongheaded and stupid. Embrace the industry standard, asshats.
Intelligent_Top_328@reddit
GM you lead. Changed the Ev industry.
Sttocs@reddit
Why wouldn't you hedge your bets and have a good tech stack and CarPlay and Android Auto? Doesn't it come for free with Android Automotive?
404nd2@reddit
Let's make the user experience better by adding one more system than their used to dealing with in their lives. It's just one more.
MilkyWaySamurai@reddit
It’s not April 1… right?
BetterThanAFoon@reddit
Carplay and Android auto started shaping my car buying habits nearly a decade ago. I avoid brands that don't support them.
Spicywolff@reddit
My wife loves the Camaro and the Corvette. But she won’t own a GM without Apple CarPlay. She has die hard into the ease of use and that system.
We are retrofitting her C5 with a Sony double den that has Apple CarPlay. Plain and simple the consumers alike Apple CarPlay. If you don’t give it to them, they will go to somewhere that will.
Plastic-Student-24@reddit
As of right now, the C8 has both and it's wireless.
The Camero for the later part of its life had both.
Spicywolff@reddit
Yup so those are still on her pick list. But if the next gen c9 does not have it AND it cannot be retrofitted. She won’t get it.
Alas the amazing 6th gen Camaro is dead, shame too cause I loved the SS 1LE
AutoModerator@reddit
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xdr01@reddit
PMSL good luck with that, you will need it when sales tank
Juicyjackson@reddit
I think that ditching Carplay can work as long as the software is implemented perfectly i don't see it as a problem as long as its equal to or better then apple carplay/android auto.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
I like how you typed a perfectly reasonable comment with clear and logical limitations (If gGM made something better than Carplay) and you got hardcore downvoted by the cult-like behavior of self-entitled believers in the idea that their way is the only way and that the world must only work that one way.
poopoomergency4@reddit
it's GM, we already know they can't do that.
it's my money and my car, so yes, it's my way or someone else gets my money.
xienze@reddit
Yeah, nothing to worry about. If there's one thing automakers are known for, it's their stellar entertainment system software.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
..Cool
You know GM didn't actually make the software right?
It's Google Android Automotive OS with Google Automotive Services. Google made virtually every app on it and the entire base OS and menus. They did 99.5% of the work. GM provides purely the homescreen interface and skin. It was directly a partnership with Google.
But hey, nobody here actually researches stuff. We all are supposed to go with the hive mind thoughts that two companies alone are allowed to do software and that car companies should never actually try to innovate. GM is trying something, if it fails, this guy gets fired and they go back.
poopoomergency4@reddit
that is more than enough control to fuck this up lol. don't underestimate GM's appetite and capacity to ruin things.
chlronald@reddit
why re-invent the wheels? In addition the main problem with legacy automaker rarely update the functionality of their infotainment system outside of purchase, often laggy and outdated when new, meanwhile carplay and AA update on air and with your phone.
ArcticBP@reddit
I agree with you that this won’t work out
ShadeTreeMechanic512@reddit
I have “high conviction” that ditching GM and buying a Honda next time is the right path.
michiganwinter@reddit
Their interface better be the best in the world if they’re gonna go that route and I guarantee you it won’t.
I have a Ford. There’s no fucking way. I’m using their sync bullshit.
I wish CarPlay could run without it because dammit every time I have a problem it’s because of Ford sync.
thekid8it@reddit
More like - GM boss of jackassory says “ we know how to fuck over our customers and then be okay with it.”
On a real note, how hard is it to do the right thing. Listen to the customer and they will vote with their wallets. Moves like this will kill brand loyalty if there’s any left.
murgalurgalurggg@reddit
Tesla or CarPlay.
maxbls16@reddit
I wanted to get an equinox ev. No carplay killed the option for me.
platypus_farmer42@reddit
I like CarPlay. I want to be able to control it with physical buttons and knobs (like Mazda) and I DON’T want to have to control all other features of my car through the infotainment.
jtbis@reddit
Their pissed no one pays for the vehicle’s data plan.
Plastic-Student-24@reddit
Directions integrated into the HUD with the built in google nav is worth it to pay for even with AA/Carplay available in my corvette.
Fiiv3s@reddit
GM is gonna actually kill sales by doing that
ClusterFugazi@reddit
If all car companies drop CarPlay, where will all of you go? It's coming.
kon---@reddit
Good for GM. CarPlay and Android Auto are horrible generic. GM and the rest of the manufacturing world, prefer to offer something unique.
I don't know what GM's experience is like. I can say, iDrive walks CarPlay. It's not even close.
tr_9422@reddit
I have a 'high conviction' that GM software boss can suck it
Motortrend: It’s Going To Cost $300 Per Year to Keep Using Google Maps in Our Chevy Silverado
nforrest@reddit
I wouldn't buy a new car without AA/CP but I wasn't anywhere near buying a GM anything anyway.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
Customers are way attached to their phones. The only company that can get away with no phone connection is Tesla, but you can tell how much money & time they spent on developing and perfecting their software.
the__poseidon@reddit
Yea they gonna revert that decision in couple of years.
Just executive being greedy and out of touch.
Mytre-@reddit
I find myself using more of the car navigation in my car ( Hyundai) than android auto. But I still decide based on it having that feature, because I like choice, I know for a fact that at some points maybe not know but in the future somewhere , I can probably still use my android device which is up to date vs the built in navigation which will probably stop getting updates maybe in a few years maybe in a decade. Etc.
Maximillien@reddit
The whole thing comes down to the fact that without CarPlay/Android Auto, they can charge an additional monthly subscription to duplicate the data connection that is already provided by your phone. Of course it's the "right path" for the shareholders, but it's an objective downgrade for the consumer. We'll see if people care enough about this for it to hurt their sales.
00000000000@reddit
The best part is that GM’s in house software/hardware is awful.
If CarPlay is removed from my vehicle I would definitely consider selling it. And I won’t be buying GM again until it’s back.
ikilledtupac@reddit
"We gonna collect and sell that data ourselves"
ProfessorCaptain@reddit
GM bad!!!
tulipa1634@reddit
Yeah OEMs are really good at developing software and user interfaces. And they know precisely what the customer want and should not confuse them with something like the most popular software ecosystem the world.
bigev007@reddit
No method that won't let me sync podcasts with my phone and skip ads (unless I pay for and use apps of their choosing instead of mine) will be better than AA/CP. Full Stop.
floccinauciNPN@reddit
Good luck with that conviction, GM
gumby_twain@reddit
I have a high conviction that my next car will have carplay.
fattytuna96@reddit
To GM’s software boss: we have “high conviction” that ur dumb
janoycresvadrm@reddit
They don’t understand this is non negotiable on new vehicles.
dethnight@reddit
Translation: "Why let customers use the free Apple / Google navigation when we can charge them for it instead"
retroPencil@reddit
Can GM build a great interior customer experience? Yes, they can, they have the resources.
Will GM build a great interior customer experience? No, they have too many accountants.
ExtruDR@reddit
Funny thing is that people like their iPhones way more than most of their cars.
For as awfully expensive as phones have gotten, they offer dependable good value and can be depended upon despite the occasional battery or screen change.
Cars have not been able to get close to that. Some of that is by design.
poopoomergency4@reddit
agreed. if GM wants me to pick between my iphone and their car... they won't like how that goes.
WestonP@reddit
Dumb move. iPhone market share is the best its ever been and has been increasing year to year.
Not an Apple fanboy, as I use Android, but facts are facts. I make apps and hardware for both platforms and Apple has the majority of users, and even more so when we only look at users who are willing to spend money.
Ernie_McCracken88@reddit
Even if I like the GM software, I have to gamble that OTHER people will like it as well so it continues to get updated, and gets adopted enough to not affect resale value.
NothingCreative1@reddit
If this is gonna hurt them so much more than they could even imagine
ExoticDatabase@reddit
To GM: I will not buy another car without CarPlay. Not saying it would even be a GM, but you’re immediately out of the running if you do not offer it.
samzplourde@reddit
Can someone clue me in on why carplay/Android auto are so desirable? I've never used it, but the Tesla system seems to work just fine for everything.
Buffyoh@reddit
Another tone-deaf decision by GM: People like and want CarPlay and Android Auto - THEY WON'T BUY CARS WITHOUT IT. (Hell, I don't rent cars without Android Auto!)
olov244@reddit
I hate GM corporate so much
you built brand loyalty on being a solid product for an honest price, best bang for your buck for decades. now you're just a sellout like everyone else
if I were GM I'd have everything easy to mod/personalize with everything subscription free(except onstar, that seems like something you can't automate) and advertise it as such. bring back that brand loyalty for the company that's not trying to nickel and dime you every turn
Agreed_fact@reddit
This certainly isn’t rooted in the desire to monetize an untapped market through recurring monthly fees. As with all GM’s choices in the past half century…I assume this will turn out splendidly and make them a gazillion dollars.
shwaynebrady@reddit
It’s funny how over the years the comments on these larger subreddits have more or less turned into boomer-esqe Facebook comments. The majority of them based on literally nothing, not even just non fact based but just pure unsupported speculation.
Anyone who’s worked in any sort of engineering, design or quality role where you’re forced to integrate your products with a totally separate companies products understands all the issues that come along with such an endeavor. Now amplify that with two companies with massive amounts of IP and proprietary tech trying to create a seamless process for what is a truly complicated function.
It’s like asking Apple to integrate Microsoft as an OS and still wanting them to be responsible for the products performance. It would never happen in a million years because Apple wants to control every aspect of their products and user experience, which is exactly what GM wants.
It’s not about data or subscriptions fees
merelyadoptedthedark@reddit
Yes, when I think of GM, the first thing that comes to mind is rapid innovation.
Psyclist80@reddit
They gonna regret taking away folks choice of tech ecosystem integration. Im an android guy, but so many are not and are used to apple. They are trying to bring another revenue stream in, thats all it is, full stop.
GIMMESOMDORITOS@reddit
This sounds like a 2025 model year problem that I'm too 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse to understand.
amppy808@reddit
I think this is the right move. It’s such an easy UI to build out and make it good. Just like Tesla has. I’m sure it’ll be way better integrated too. CarPlay is okay, but I’m sure manufacturers can make a better system in house.
longgamma@reddit
I test drove the Equinox EV for roughly thirty minutes and the software did seem decent enough.
It seems it’s built on top of android and you can install apps like Waze or Spotify. Google maps is the default navigation app and it shows you how much charge your car will have after completing a trip. Also does integrate charging with trip planning.
It’s not as bad as I thought it would be. Tesla also does something similar. I just wish they add Apple Maps to the mix. You can cast music or podcast to the speakers through Bluetooth.
olek2012@reddit
I have a Lyriq and my experience has been similar. The built in mapping software is very good. We use it exclusively. The built in Spotify app is almost laughably bad. We use CarPlay for Spotify and podcasts.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Apple knows Carplay is a lock-in item to make you buy an iPhone. I kinda expect Apple to try to be anticompetitive here. It's why they make Carplay in the first place and why Google made Android Auto.
__-__-_-__@reddit
Carplay also is terrible. It was great as a temporary measure for bringing tech to the car but it’s 5 years outdated at this point.
DaOne_44@reddit
I had to build a raspberry pi based navigation system for my car solely for CarPlay. Can’t live without it
tkhan456@reddit
Ron Howard Narrator: “It wasn’t”
CondeNast_yReddit@reddit
Good. All yal are talking about subscriptions and all this other crap but overlook simple explanations. First, most people have androids so apple car play only appeals to only one segment of people. 2nd they both just add an unnecessary UI layer between your phone and the radio. All I need is a Bluetooth connection to play the audio from my phone, nothing else. What's even worse is the constant prompts on your phone to use android auto or the carplay and that causes more headaches. I'm glad they're doing away with them, they don't add any usefulness
olek2012@reddit
Haha good one.
We leased a GM vehicle for the first time this summer. Normally I haven’t liked any of their stuff but the Lyriq was honestly very good. We have the 2024 with CarPlay. We like it a lot and it’s honestly one of the best all around cars I’ve ever owned.
But if they take away CarPlay and we’re shopping around again in 3 years, this’ll be a one and done. The integrated map feature on the Lyriq is honestly very good. The Spotify and Poscast integration sucks. We usually use the built in map software and Apple car play for music.
hughcifer-106103@reddit
GM is upset that Apple or Google are getting access to your data and want in on the game. They’re not doing it because they think their UI is better. They’re not doing it because they’re worried about security. They’re doing it to get your data.
mowow@reddit
What I don't get is you are not forced to use Carplay in a car that has it...
Like GM, if your non-carplay option is going to be so much better, then why not just offer the option to also have Carplay? The only logical answer is that everything GM claims is BS and that this is all down to money.
sasquatch_melee@reddit
I have a "high conviction" that I won't buy another GM without it. GM is vastly overestimating their brand loyalty.
varcas@reddit
Am I missing something? What's the big draw with CarPlay? I feel like I only use it for messages via speech & waze.
nerdpox@reddit
I knew they were high
FrogsFloatToo@reddit
GM your products are already trash so
BipedalWurm@reddit
Play my tunes without being a pain in my ass or somebody else will.
PhilipRiversCuomo@reddit
Nobody wants to manage/buy or log into standalone apps in their car.
They simply have no appetite for it.
randomcanyon@reddit
Which foot is going to be shot first?
I like the integration with my apple products. Every car I buy in the future will have it. But thanks for playing.
terp2010@reddit
Imagine being wrong, and doubling down on it.
What's the famous saying?
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so
Plaineswalker@reddit
Shit, I wanted a new Silverado but I would not even consider buying a new vehicle without Android Auto. Guess I gotta get a shitty F150.
retnemmoc@reddit
The problem is Apps. You don't need everything to be so smart. You just need a screen that accepts audio and video from another device. Like HDMI. Like the "Aux in" of old. people already have a music/video/communications/GPS device in their pocket. all the head unit needs to do is duplicate the audio/video/ and maybe touch so you dont have to mount your phone. but then all this BS about preventing people from doing dumb shit infects the software and suddenly a passenger can't connect their phone to the car while the car is in motion.
luckymethod@reddit
I have high conviction not buying their cars is the right thing decision.
TheCanadianShield99@reddit
And you spoke to how many customers before deciding? 4?
DrSpaceman575@reddit
The hubris of these companies to think they can make better software than Apple. Apple is worth 60 times as much as GM and all that value is because of its software. Fucking wild.
NoEquivalent3869@reddit
I have high conviction that ditching GM is the right path
CLS4L@reddit
GM don't want apple to track you that's what they do and sell the data
Never-Been-Sharper@reddit
Buying a new GM truck with their google system is a complete disappointment. If I didn’t have CarPlay I would have returned it… seems dumb, I know, but I utilize so many of the functions for my work that google doesn’t even get close.
razeus@reddit
These screams that Apple is charging THE FUCK out of automakers for CarPlay. I expect this to be pushback.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
They don't charge for CarPlay. They make money from keeping their customers in their closed ecosystem.
razeus@reddit
Interesting. Didn’t know Apple did anything for free.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
It's probably just this and smugness that you get for free from Apple.
razeus@reddit
They could be playing the “give it away for free and once everyone has it, charge for it” card.
SciGuy013@reddit
I have high conviction I'll never buy a GM car
JellyfishQuiet7944@reddit
Ask me why we didn't buy an Infinity...
PotentialPizza11111@reddit
Consumers: we have ‘high conviction’ ditching GM is the right path
KADRacing@reddit
CarPlay or even AndroidAuto are literally the only requirement in a car for a lot of people. It's actually insane how out of touch some companies are.
funnyfarm299@reddit
This will make GM a non-starter for any rental car companies.
hawksdiesel@reddit
cue the subscription to get those features....
argent_pixel@reddit
I can't speak to CarPlay, but Android Automotive literally has a feature now to let you cast to the system the way regular Android Auto works. It's literally a toggle that garbage companies like Volvo disable on purpose to force you into their ecosystem and subscription. If GM is really so proud of their bullshit, they could just leave phone casting on in their Android based system and let the consumer decide which one they like more. Surely they would all pick the far superior GM system and pay the extra subscription fee, right?
Uatatoka@reddit
I have a high conviction I won't be buying GM as such
rakster@reddit
Famous last words
00goop@reddit
I’m not buying a Chevy, but if they tried to charge me a subscription for Apple car play I’d get a phone mount and play music through the aux.
saabbrendan@reddit
Lmao that is insane
Hrmerder@reddit
I have high conviction I won't buy a damn GM without it and many other people as well. Good job gatekeeping due to the 'I don't want investors to think I screwed up spending millions in development of an infotainment system people don't want'.
LoPanDidNothingWrong@reddit
And I have a high conviction I won’t be buying a car without it. Been sitting on a Rivian deposit for years now and most likely I am buying a Lucid Gravity instead.
And when we replace our Cayenne next, guess what? It won’t be a GM either. Hell I am thinking about buying a sports car, and the Corvette wasn’t on the list because of that, so a 911 or LC.
That is three nice expensive potential sales for GM lost.
AccomplishedJury5694@reddit
I have car play in my 2023 z4 I have just disconnected it as I am sick of the glitching and dropping calls. Sound isn’t as great either. Bravo
Mephiz@reddit
Narrator: He was wrong
binding_swamp@reddit
GM should be more honest. Their sans-CarPlay business model is 100% about monetization and data harvesting. We were a longtime GM family, but may they go down in flames. Zero support for any vehicle manufacturer that puts data harvesting above consumer preferences.
thecurlyburl@reddit
So, here’s the thing, they’re gonna need to start paying like they’re serious about delivering great software and get their management mindset straight. Their pay for software engineers is just hilariously paltry compared to even the most pedestrian tech company and the momentum of “very old school manufacturing company” group think got in their way at every opportunity when I worked there.
natesully33@reddit
The sad truth is they will lose few customers, but gain subscription revenue and data from making the choice. In general the choice that makes money for a business isn't always the pro-user one is it?
And yes I do hate not having carplay in my Tesla, because I'd have to pay $10 a month for traffic on the big screen when it's already on my phone. Also picking playlists and such over bluetooth is annoying, no matter how good the Tesla UX is.
duderos@reddit
GM making ridiculous decisions that will require them to get another bailout down the road. Not having CarPlay is a dealbreaker for many.
kbee540@reddit
I was going to ask how Execs can be so out of touch with customer wants and needs, but then remembered he’s probably very much in touch with shareholder wants and needs and as a result the consumer can get f**ked. That said, in an automotive landscape that offers me what I want elsewhere that might not work out for our GM guy.
tryingtobeopen@reddit
I was looking at older four runners in 2021 but decided to go with a new one just because it had CarPlay.
Now help me understand why even to this day so many car manufacturers keep on trying to build out GPS systems when everyone just uses Google Maps (yes I know some people also use Apple Maps or whatever, but as an iPhone user, I don’t understand why anyone would ever use Apple Maps over Google)
UnderwaterB0i@reddit
After having CarPlay, I can't imagine buying a new vehicle without it. What are they thinking?
Ecstatic_Account_744@reddit
I’m just old enough to be too stubborn to switch to an android device. No carplay would definitely be a dealbreaker for me.
restlessmonkey@reddit
Thanks GM. Makes it easier to have one less car manufacturer to consider for our family of 6.
Funny_Frame1140@reddit
Unless GM can somehow poach all of software developers from Apple and Google this will undoubtedly fail lol
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
It is Google's system. AAOS with Google Automotive Services + Skin = Gm's system. Every single comment like this is made by people who don't have a clue what they are talking about.
DjImagin@reddit
“Our shareholders are very happy with how we can monetize your data while giving you less”.
GadFlyBy@reddit
What a coincidence! I share that conviction about ditching GM cars from purchase consideration.
keithplacer@reddit
What do you use CarPlay for? Genuinely curious. I am allergic to most systems.
charizard732@reddit
Just 1 more reason to never buy a GM product. Not that I needed more reasons to stay away from the junk they build
jawnnyboy@reddit
Haha you do you gm, but I’m not buying a car without carplay. Deal breaker for me and also a lot of people i know.
I just hope this doesn’t become an industry wide trend. Really don’t want to go back to dashboard phone cradles like i see a lot of tesla people do. Hopefully gm is just trying to speed run another government bail out.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
The only people doing the dashboard phone cradles in a tesla are uber drivers and people who should lose their license for texting while driving.
Chudsaviet@reddit
Okay, if you really believe in the decision - drop CarPlay from ICE vehicles too. Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.
GregAllAround@reddit
Isn’t that the plan? I’ve read that the infotainment going into EV’s will be the same ones in updated generations of their ICE cars- I could be wrong?
Chudsaviet@reddit
Lets see.
Snarkranger@reddit
I have high conviction that I'll never buy a GM car.
vishysuave@reddit
CarPlay is something I am greatly looking forward to getting, after dealing with Infiniti’s abysmal system for so long. Like sometimes it just fucking disconnects the Bluetooth for no reason, and every once in a while it won’t even connect. Terrible user experience.
RuprectGern@reddit
If the automakers were smart, they would develop a standard integration protocol for mobile devices on a vehicle platform with the key feature sets that could be visualized by apple/android/etc. kind of like an OBDC for Mobile Ent.
There could be generic API elements that are avail across the board, for any 3rd party dev and and then there are OEM integrations that would be licensed that open addl features. This is the issue across the board with so many diff platforms no unifying standards. all it serves is to disenfranchise the customer without substantial purchasing power.
Let them have their "Tartar Sauce".
awirelesspro@reddit
Scratch off GM cars from even being considered then.
therealchengarang@reddit
I trust the fee for those is going to be more than how many vehicles they don’t sell. Vehicle sales pay OEMs a profit by percentage points so - it wouldn’t be crazy to me that these cell phone companies are getting greedy and they decided the sales at a loss total a net positive.
inquisitiveimpulses@reddit
My GM still has the factory radio delete plate 55 years later. So I wouldn't really care about carplay
Thunder_Wasp@reddit
Am I out of touch? No, it’s the customers who are wrong.
ravengenesis1@reddit
Boss says what he wants to hear, news coming next ex-boss makes bad decisions.
Whisktangofox@reddit
Apple could just buy GM stock and then force them to do it.
Delicious-Ocelot3751@reddit
the one good software lmfao
Recent_Specialist839@reddit
I never trust GM's intuition ever. The same people who brought us the Aztek, required a bailout, put everything on EVs just before the market dried up. Everything stupid thing they've done would have been avoided by lanybody else off the street with minimal qualifications.
Whisktangofox@reddit
Idiots.
Graywulff@reddit
Car dealer: “what kind of car do you want”?
Customer on iPhone while talking “CarPlay with wheels”.
Considering how popular Apple stuff is with younger people this is a dumber move than they think, I haven’t used android auto since I got my iPhone 13 Pro but lane by lane guidance was in Apple Maps and that was awesome for my area with confusing roads.
SilverbackIdiot@reddit
When I went vehicle shopping last, I shopped specifically for a model year that had CarPlay. This is a super boneheaded move.
gra8na8@reddit
Nope.
carpundit@reddit
Short GM
mrmanoftheland42069@reddit
Please bring on the downvotes and laugh at me, but I want muh cd player and AM radio 😂
austic@reddit
Seems about as smart as AMG boss saying that buyers only want tech and luxury while installing electric lawnmower engines. I like carplay and want it in my car.
5rolled_tacos@reddit
Big mistake GM. Get over yourself.
Hyperius999@reddit
laughs in flashing the car
cheezturds@reddit
Doesn’t matter to me because I’m not interested in any of the 15 sport activity barbie mobile mom cars they make.
directrix688@reddit
I have a high conviction I won’t buy any products that don’t integrate my phone
Sidekicknicholas@reddit
I've had a bit of weird journey with Carplay vs. OEM systems and here are my thoughts.
2006 - 2016: OEM systems for nav / media + bluetooth... and they all kinda sucked. I had owned Lexus, FCA, Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Chevy, Jaguar / Land Rover ... they were all different, but basically the same and were worse than Google maps + Spotify / Tidal / Apple Music / etc on my phone
... then in 2016 I got a Tesla Model S... and my opinion changed. Tesla did such a good job using google maps, allowing me to have the streaming apps built into the car, which in my opinion is superior because if Im in traffic and want to putz on my phone, I can without messing with music. The systems were fast, responsive, and the same systems I knew and loved. I happily lived without Carplay / Android auto for 6 years.
...2024, I just lease a Cadillac Lyric to replace my Model S and the car has Carplay and the built in systems. I find myself using them back and forth depending the need. The GM system using apps is good - like really good. The issue I think is what many people have suggested is long term support. If/when GM (or whatever OEM) decides to go a different direction, if you bought/ own your car, are you screwed? I don't inherently hate their choice because I would expect I continue to lease EVs as long as the incentives are juicy.
The only other big factor is universal useability of the systems ... all carplay / AA systems are the same, anyone can get in any car with it and use it straight away, that has value vs. having to learn car specific systems. In the case of my Tesla I grew to love it, but the 1-2 times a month my wife drove the car, she hated it... where if I jumped in her Jeep I didn't miss a beat because Carplay/AA was universal.
Remarkable_Sport6236@reddit
So i wouldn't be able to connect my phone and use it for music/maps? I'm just fully relying on the vehicle for those? This seems like features that would end up being $x amount and a subscription basis. Why restrict people? Doesn't seem to be a great idea imo
AFB27@reddit
Well... The right path for me will be no GM vehicles
timelessblur@reddit
No it is not the right move for users. Carplay/ Android Auto is a must have for a lot of people. The only reason GM ditch carplay/Android Auto is try to force people to spend more money on SAAS. Things that in the cars life span the key part (cellurar) has a good chance of going completely off line as the carriers retire it. 4G is most likely to be retired in the next 15 years.
julienjj@reddit
X for doubt.
nuttageyo@reddit
I’m never buying a car without CarPlay.
tke_quailman@reddit
Car play is literally a deal breaker for me.
GregAllAround@reddit
I can’t lie- a Silverado ZR2 has been my dream truck since they came out, and i’ve been planning on looking at them over the next 2-3 years when I should be able to afford one, but i would immediately prioritize a Tundra or even an F-150 if I couldn’t get CarPlay in it. Guarantee that I’m not the only one with that logic, especially if the alternative is some Tesla-esque subscription service bullshit. Can’t wait until I can’t listen to music or podcasts because the dogshit internal antenna keeps losing reception on backroads while I could just keep that shit all downloaded on my phone.
orangutanDOTorg@reddit
I prefer Bluelink in my Hyundai over CarPlay but I’m not paying $300/year for it (3 separate packages that have to be added in layers to get the active nav) now that the trial 3 years is over. CarPlay not allowing pinch to zoom on the nav apps ruins the one thing I use on it bc the active zooming in Apple Maps, google maps, and Waze sucks. The built in for most companies I’ve used is shit though so I get it - just CarPlay could be so much better with just a couple tweaks
According_Flow_6218@reddit
Are they going to ditch cruise control too?
thatguy11m@reddit
Added a new head unit for our 2017 car to have Android Auto and Apple Carplay and it feels new like a 2023 car. I can't possibly imagine removing it now and making it feel like car from the 2010s with tech features on the screen I'll likely never use. Phone integration is simple and you almost never have to bother with it again.
Obi_Win_Kinibi@reddit
We also have “high conviction”. Ditching GM is the right path
macgirthy@reddit
GM makes ugly trucks and cars. They killed off the camaro twice now. Cant trust that brand to make the right decisions.
Only GM vehicle i would even consider is the z06 and ct5 blackwing. Everything else is ass.
irtimirtim@reddit
I use CarPlay mostly for “info” and over the air broadcast FM radio for “tainment”. Both are free. But I don’t really care what GM does as I haven’t owned one of their vehicles for over 40 years and that’s unlikely to change.
Unoriginal-@reddit
Only time will tell but I can respect the hubris
flokuni@reddit
They should start build Quality and they could ditch CarPlay.
Juicyjackson@reddit
I think that ditching Carplay can work as long as the software is implemented perfectly i don't see it as a problem as long as its equal to or better then apple carplay/android auto.