How common is fare dodging in public transport in your area?
Posted by techno_playa@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 252 comments
Basically it’s when passengers in public transport try to avoid paying fares by sneaking in or out.
I was in Berlin last month and I was amazed by how many fare dodgers were caught in the metro.
Even in countries where there is a gate to tap in or out, I’ve seen passengers enter or leave by asking someone else to tap for them.
In Rome, some people would just enter and leave buses without validating their card/pass.
skelldog@reddit
I don’t think anyone pays for a train in the city I grew up in. It’s an honor system and so few people pay that others start feeling like why pay when no one else does.
skelldog@reddit
To add to this, you can buy a fare on your phone so it would be easy enough to just buy it quick when you see them checking.
Difficult-Equal9802@reddit
I think it's about 20% on subways. Probably less on buses
11061995@reddit
My city runs that shit for free. No fares means no fare skipping. When it used to cost, people would pick up day passes off the ground or give them to each other so it didn't matter. I live in Albuquerque New Mexico.
john510runner@reddit
Very common in Oakland and San Francisco.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmHlAnmxfQU&pp=ygURYmFydCBmYXJlIGV2YWRlcnM%3D
the_real_JFK_killer@reddit
There ain't a public transport system for people to fare dodge on
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Not even buses?
Asking because San Antonio and Austin are in my list for visits.
21schmoe@reddit
There's a big disconnect between rural / small town America, and urban/metro America. Each lives in a different bubble. (And this plays out in our elections.)
People in rural & small town America tend to underestimate the massive amount of Americans that live in the major metropolitan areas.
That's why they're arrogantly telling you that this is the wrong forum to ask this question, even though you got plenty answers from Americans that understood your question perfectly fine. (And I don't know what other forum you'd go to, to ask Americans from several major cities at once).
Yes, Houston and Dallas-Ft Worth have public transit systems, with buses and light rail systems. And they've been expanding them.
Even if most people drive to work (which is even true for the New York metro area), the public transit systems in Houston and Dallas get decent ridership, mostly from people that work in the CBD.
In most US metro areas, even if you live in the very car-dependent suburbs, it's understood that parking in the CBD is scarce and expensive. So the most common reason for Americans to use public transit, is to commute to work in the CBD. And most transit systems are centered on that model. Many transit systems even have "Park and ride" facilities. Say you work in downtown Dallas, and live in the suburbs, far from a light rail stop. You'll drive to a nearby light rail stop that provides parking, and you'll take the train into downtown Dallas.
If you look at the Houston and Dallas light rail maps, you'll see that all lines radiate from the CBD to the outer areas. This is also true for Boston, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, and even New York.
the_real_JFK_killer@reddit
I don't live in a city, so not even busses. I think there's a bus terminal near town that connects to Houston, though
San Antonio and Austin have bus systems, I've heard good things about the Austin one and mixed things about the San Antonio one.
Ellavemia@reddit
It would be better to ask in a forum for cab drivers or bus drivers, or in a forum specific to a city known for great public transport like NYC. No average American would know.
21schmoe@reddit
Or they can ask here, where Americans from several major cities can see it. We're average Americans too, BTW.
W33P1NG4NG3L@reddit
I think most of the folks saying they don't have public transport meant it more ruefully than dismissively. Public transport is extremely lacking in the US, and I've noticed most folks on Reddit envy Europeans for theirs.
Dr_Watson349@reddit
For most of us this question is like asking, "what kind of saddle do you use for your horse?"
royalhawk345@reddit
Then why answer? This question is for people who don't live in bumfuck nowhere.
Dr_Watson349@reddit
Damn. I didn't know Tampa Bay Florida was bumfuck nowhere.
You do realize that the vast majority of the US has almost nonexistence public transportation right? Most people don't live in the 4 cities that actually have it.
21schmoe@reddit
Half of Americans live in just these counties here, and the vast majority of these areas have some sort of public transit, even if it's just buses. Including the Tampa-St Petersburg area.
Dr_Watson349@reddit
I wrote "almost nonexistence" to try and highlight that while it exists, it might as well not. I can see how that was potentially unclear. That's on me. Let me clarify.
The public transportation system(s) in the US, outside a few major cities, is so poor that its basically useless to most Americans for day to day activists.
I live in the most densely populated county in one of the largest states by population. If any place should have decent public transportation, it should be here, right? So, lets say I want to go from home to work. How would that look:
1 - Walk from my house to the nearest bus stop going in my direction - 31 mins (Based on google map estimate)
2 - Arrive at bus stop. Buses run every 20 mins, so shouldn't be too long a wait.
3 - 20 min ride to the next stop.
4 - Change buses.
5 - Ride this bus to the end, 55 mins
6 - Walk the rest of the way 34 mins.
That is over 2 hours of travel time, assuming I catch every bus perfectly, and they all run on time. That's also an hr of walking, in Florida.
That's a 12 mile trip.
Maybe I got high expectations, but that fucking sucks man.
SevenSixOne@reddit
I used to live just outside Downtown Cincinnati and work in a downtown building I could see from my bedroom window.
Getting to work was a ~15 minute drive... or a mess of long walks (mostly along a busy street with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or other pedestrian infrastructure), bus transfers, and long rides like you described. It would literally have been faster for me to walk to work! One time I had car trouble and couldn't get a ride to work, and I just called off that day because taking the bus literally did not even occur to me as a viable option.
21schmoe@reddit
It sucks, but it exists.
dlerach@reddit
I can think of more than 4 cities in the United States that have extensive public transit and I think most Americans could too.
Arkyguy13@reddit
Tampa has public transportation and by my rough estimation about 35% of Americans live in metros with rail transit. If you count bus systems I'd guess it's around 86%. Public transportation in the US is generally bad but it's there and many people use it. You do happen to live in one of the largest metros in the US without rail (not counting the Ybor trolley)
55555_55555@reddit
This is a bizarre comment. Public transport exists outside of ubiquitous heavy rail. Tampa has public buses like pretty much every city of that size in America.
JessicaGriffin@reddit
I guess 45% of Americans live in “bumfuck nowhere,” since that’s the percentage of the population who have zero access to public transport.
SevenSixOne@reddit
And probably at least 45% of the people who live in places with some public transit don't actually use it-- I lived in and around Cincinnati OH for ~30 years and used the city bus maybe three times total
Bright_Ices@reddit
True, because some public transit can’t replace having a car, and if you’re already paying for a car, it feels silly to pay for an alternative that’s slower and less comfortable.
symbolicshambolic@reddit
And doesn't get you within a mile of where you actually want to go. So you get off the bus/train and you have to hoof it for an hour or call an Uber/Lyft anyway.
Ravenclaw79@reddit
True facts. We technically have one bus line that goes through here, but most people don’t use it.
royalhawk345@reddit
A little under half sounds about right.
Loud_Insect_7119@reddit
I mean, you're not wrong, but I find this example really funny as someone who used to work as a professional horse trainer in the Chicago metro area, lol.
For the record, it depends on what I'm doing. I tend to like Kieffer saddles for dressage, Amerigos for jumping, and my western saddle was made by a local saddlemaker where I grew up. Also fare jumping seemed to be a fairly minor problem when I was riding the Metra a lot.
MrLongWalk@reddit
back in Boston? not very
here in Burlington? non-existent
in my home town? can't dodge fares if there are no fares to dodge, no buses or trains
HalcyonHelvetica@reddit
Really? I was taking the Green Line for free everyday when I worked there.
Pinwurm@reddit
People dodge fares ALL the time in Boston.. on the Green Line.
If you hop on any street-level stop, especially during Rush Hour - you usually don't use the front doors where the card-reader is. And if you do use the front doors, the driver will wave you through. On my commute home, I use a street level stop and haven't ever paid.
As far as jumping gates, people will walk quickly behind you and not pay once in a while. Nobody cares.
EpicAura99@reddit
What in Burlington has fares? My BF said the busses are free.
MrLongWalk@reddit
nah, they reinstated fares a few months back
EpicAura99@reddit
Ah, I was last there in May. He might’ve moved there after they were free and thought it was always like that.
MrLongWalk@reddit
they were free for several years (covid) and just recently switched back
Anustart15@reddit
Now that they've set up the new green line extension to essentially operate on the honor system, it seems like a majority of people don't bother paying for that. Definitely not as many people actively jumping fare gates though.
Open_Philosophy_7221@reddit
Lol. I did the math in SF CA in 2018. The ticket for fare dodging was seriously offset by the savings considering how rarely police check.
Farscape55@reddit
Almost non existent, just like public transport
Illustrious_Angle952@reddit
When i was a kid in the 1970s in Chicago, everyone jumped the stile, but they used to employ a conductor who sold tickets on the train, so you’d just lie about where you got on for a cheaper fare. Then they got rid of conductors and put up cameras and I haven’t seen anyone try to cheat in awhile
CountChoculasGhost@reddit
In Chicago I’ve only seen it a few times, but I’m sure it happens more frequently than that. Basically zero security, so people can get away with it with no repercussions.
6894@reddit
Never happens, mostly because there is no public transit.
RemonterLeTemps@reddit
OK, funny story. Before I retired, I worked in an office in Chicago where about half the staff took public transit, either driving to a train station to complete their journey on Metra, or just boarding a bus or train in their neighborhood.
One day, I arrived to the phone ringing; it was my co-worker Rosa, saying she'd be delayed. I said cool, I'd let her boss know, and we'd see her a little later; she countered with, "Well...I'm not quite sure how long it'll be. But I'll be in, sooner or later." Again, I said ok, thinking maybe she had an issue with one of her younger kids, two of whom were in grammar school, one in high school. You know the usual, "Mom! I forgot my book, homework, gym uniform, field trip permission slip, etc."
I thought we'd see Rosa by mid-morning, but she didn't show till just before noon. Her story was, she'd discovered at the El station, that she had neither her transit card nor any money in her purse....so she hopped the turnstyle and was promptly arrested by the transit police! We're talking a 48-year-old woman here.
Everyone wondered why she didn't just ask another commuter for a few dollars, to which she said, "Eh, when I was a kid I always used to 'hop'; I thought I could still outrun the cops, but I couldn't." Because the transit po-po wouldn't let her go, she ended up calling her daughter, a paralegal; once she arrived, a brief discussion and payment of the $2.50 fare sufficed for Rosa to be released into her 'custody'. She still had to go to court, tho.
Valyrian_st33l@reddit
We dont really have subways outside NY. Some areas have trains, sure some people dodge but its fairly vetted. The bus isnt in question. You gotta pay.
dfwagent84@reddit
We have very limited public transit here. But only once have i seen them checking for tickets.
0fficial_TidE_@reddit
Public transportation is big in my city so I don't think it happens much on buses since you pay before getting on but it is definitely more common with trolleys but I rather pay $2.50 for a ticket than get a fine of $25
Unusual_Form3267@reddit
Not common in my town at all.
Public transit is free here.
omg_its_drh@reddit
I see it all the time when I take BART. They slowly started installing new fare gates at BART stations because of it.
littlemsshiny@reddit
They also increased the presence of BART police at some stations. I even saw them ticket people a few times! It’s helped a little but it’s still pretty common.
whutupmydude@reddit
In Daly City I there’s turnstiles with a full wall on either side, I watched kids hop over them to get ticketed by cops who were just chilling on the other side just out of view. They had a whole mess of people lined up to be ticketed. Like hunting fish with dynamite.
houndsoflu@reddit
That football field sized gap between the fare gate is pretty bad. Also the BART is so expensive when you are going a long distance. My uncle was telling me the history of why the BART isn’t set to the standard the rest of trains are making it next to impossible to replace, it’s just so dumb.
Darmok47@reddit
I moved from SF bay area to DC and was shocked at how much cheaper the DC metro was.
I moved back and was reminded of how inefficient it is. The toll to drive across the bridge to Oakland is just about the same price as a BART ticket.
houndsoflu@reddit
But, was it more expensive than Tanagra?
Blue387@reddit
Sadly rather common, with people entering through emergency gates, the back door of bused, etc.
b0ingy@reddit
I commute through a security guard station and people still hop the turnstile while he surfs on his phone.
Distinct_Damage_735@reddit
Agreed. Lots of people hang out by the emergency gates, waiting for people to exit so that they can go in. Sometimes if they see you just passing by, they'll ask you to open the gate for them. Or people just jump the turnstiles.
Bus drivers have been told not to confront people who don't pay the fare, so plenty of people just walk right past the drivers. But the MTA has started to put fare inspectors on buses, who will tell people to leave or write them a ticket.
21Puns@reddit
One time at night bout two years ago some guy asked me to open the gate and I was hesitant because we were within view of some MTA clerk's booth. When I glanced at the clerk, she gestured at me as if to say "just let the guy in".
ChocolatePain@reddit
Is that why I saw two guys in security jackets as well as several MTA employees milling around the 96th St subway entrance this morning? First time I had seen this.
Blue387@reddit
Yes, I've seen them at Bleecker Street on the 6 train last month
ChocolatePain@reddit
Do we know what authority they have? Can they detain people who fare dodge?
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
In Berlin, the inspectors are in plain clothes and will randomly pop out to inspect.
If you look like a tourist, you can bet they’ll check on you. Also, they get “fancy” with who they select to inspect.
houndsoflu@reddit
They are still pretty easy to spot, but they crack me up. I remember a couple of full on Punks running on the S-Bahn with bright pink hair laughing and goofing off, as soon as those doors closed the smiles were gone and the badges were out.
Iamonly@reddit
I have an idea what you mean but what do you mean by fancy?
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Not all of course but some inspectors will target specific racial or ethnic groups.
Iamonly@reddit
Yeah that doesn't really surprise me. We have the same type of asshole here in the states.
__-__-_-__@reddit
I was in manhattan last year and talking to some cops while on the platform. In the middle of our conversation someone asked if they could open the emergency exit for them, and the cop walked over and let him in. Someone walked in behind him while the gate was open. Nobody in that town seems to care.
turnmeintocompostplz@reddit
Especially the elevated tracks, re:hard to police everywhere. It's hard to have someone standing on a tiny platform on a tall staircase.
Also, people often enable it here. Opening the emergency exit so people can come in. The minor version being giving people a free swipe - you can basically get unlimited rides for the week for $33 and you can just hand them out (swipe/tap your card) as youre leaving if you want. It's a rich tradition now.
Scrappy_The_Crow@reddit
I don't take MARTA often, but I've never seen fare evasion.
That doesn't sound like fare evasion, that sounds like someone else paying for them.
Cabester99@reddit
I take MARTA almost every day for school, I can vouch that fare evasion is very frequent, especially on the southern/western parts of the lines.
What alot of people do is slip right through one of the doors. It makes a fuckton of noise, but the places where it happens don’t have much/frequent security to check people on it. And then because of how some people slide through the door, it “breaks” and doesn’t close, leaving it wide open for other people to walk through until someone comes along to fix it (not frequently). Between East Point Station and Five Points station, all 6 of those stations pretty much always have a stuck open door for that exact reason.
Scrappy_The_Crow@reddit
Thanks for chiming in with your experience that's counter to mine. All of that is really too bad.
ohmyitsme3@reddit
Uncommon. They’re almost always caught.
DachshundNursery@reddit
Very common in Philly. It's especially frustrating as our transit system, SEPTA, is having a budget crisis and may end up having to limit services.
Frankjc3rd@reddit
They (SEPTA) have been working on installing what are called full-sized Gates so that people can't jump the turnstile and get on for free, it's a work in progress.
rolyfuckingdiscopoly@reddit
This is the only way my husband was able to get his degree. He couldn’t afford to pay for the 2 hours of public transit at that time, so he went into the gate fast behind another man to the metro train. It allowed him to become a web developer, and he made a donation to public transit when he got a job that made some money.
It’s not common, but I don’t judge it when I see it.
0rangeMarmalade@reddit
Most of the country doesn't even have public transit. In the few areas that do, even fewer have robust enough public transit to even try to dodge fares. So yes it happens in areas that have it, but it's hard to say it's common compared to the population.
21schmoe@reddit
All major cities/metros have some sort of transit. Busess, light rail, something.
21schmoe@reddit
New York subway: pretty rampant.
ShiraPiano@reddit
Rare. My area has shit transportation.
Joel_feila@reddit
depends on the time of day. The bus and light rail around me often doesn't have anything to check really late at night and early in the morning. but a lot of people just buy a day pass over their phone.
therapistscouch@reddit
People use doge coin you mean?
furiously_curious12@reddit
I have a car so I don't deal with this in my day to day life. When I travel (in the States or abroad), I always get my tickets. I don't want to be fines in a different state or a foreign country for not having one.
When I was in Paris last year, I witnessed someone without a ticket on the metro, and it seemed serious. For such a small fee, you can avoid that. It's like €50 if you're caught. That's not worth it to me.
MagpieLefty@reddit
Public transportation? I don't know her.
(I live in the huge part of the US that has no real public transportation. There's a van you can pay to take you to out-of-town medical appointments. That's it.)
7yearlurkernowposter@reddit
Extremely common, does not help the only place they regularly check is outside of the baseball stadium on gamenights.
Artistic-Weakness603@reddit
Our buses are free so 0 percent fare dodging. (That said, they may be free but they aren’t super convenient to use or actually get anywhere you want in less than an hour when you could drive there in 10 min).
InevitableStruggle@reddit
Waiting to see what happens to BART in SF. They’ve started deploying secure fare gates. Up until now, it’s been a free-for-all. You could sit at the station and see people jumping the turnstile at the rate of several per minute.
JoeCensored@reddit
Very common in San Francisco, as paying is often an honor system. For example, the train that runs down the Embarcadero to pier 39, you pay at a kiosk and board. At no point do they check that you paid when you board.
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Yup. It’s the same in Germany.
You just enter a station and board the train with or without a ticket. No one will stop you.
But if there’s a random check onboard and you get caught without a valid ticket, then it’s a €60 fine.
ThrowThisAccountAwav@reddit
How often do they check on the Filipino LRT? I remember the line to board that thing is horrendous, and they always ran out of beep cards
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Depends on the security guy. If you’re lucky, they’ll just let you board because they don’t care.
ThrowThisAccountAwav@reddit
I can't imagine most security guards giving a fuck if you have to go through that damn line for the metal detector
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Same goes for malls when they “check” your bags.
It’s a tedious and low paid job.
They even have shotguns… that aren’t loaded most of time.
ThrowThisAccountAwav@reddit
Tbf they check better than Thailand checks your bags. They don't even stop you in Bangkok to check your bags, they just make you walk through the metal detector and don't even care if it goes off
wildOldcheesecake@reddit
I lived in Frankfurt for three years and was always tempted but never dared. It’s like they almost goad you into trying and the Germans don’t half mince about with their rules and enforcement of them either.
ch4nt@reddit
In the Bay Area it’s insanely common especially in SF. Our metro system (BART) has recently added fare gates to prevent people from just jumping the entrance into the stations. It’s only been a short while and only applied to a few stations but ridership has been going up, and for me personally the trains feel a lot better to ride.
Antitenant@reddit
I'm no historian, but I'm pretty sure no one in history has ever tried to evade a fare in New York City.
(I'm joking, there are literally many videos on the internet of people filming themselves doing exactly that. We also only have a single fare at the point of entry, not destination-based pricing.)
messibessi22@reddit
I think really common on the lightrail because you can pretty much just jump on the train without showing anyone anything.. when I went to school downtown I think about once a week they check your tickets and like half the people get in trouble
FrauAmarylis@reddit
Public transport in my city of Laguna Beach, CA, is free. A free public trolley, year-round, and a free rideshare app for residents, and a free senior citizen van transport.
I’ve been car-free in CA and VA, as well as while living abroad.
I just moved to London and the public transport is more expensive than Germany and less efficient.
You should see the look of disbelief on the faces of Brits when I tell them I didn’t have a car in CA and public transport is free and I retired in my 30s, and my dental work is looking pretty good too- without having to pay for supplemental insurance like all the Brits I’ve met do.
TankDestroyerSarg@reddit
Couldn't say; I don't use my public transit enough to comment. None of my public transit is usable in my day to day getting to and from work. It's been months since I've used the local rapid transit/subway, years since I've needed to hop on the regional rail system, and I don't remember the last time, if ever, that I used the regional buses. And I live about an hour outside city center of one of the largest cities in the US.
anneofgraygardens@reddit
my town is not very big and it has just a skeletal bus system that isn't very useful for most people, unless you're absolutely desperate. i don't really ever use it. (I have, a few times, but not in years.) Anyway, they actually just made it totally free, so the point is moot now.
when I'm in San Francisco I've noticed people definitely don't always pay. you can enter buses and streetcars in the back. there are scanners for your clipper card back there but most people don't bother. (as an inveterate rule follower, i do. I may be a sucker.)
symbolicshambolic@reddit
San Francisco has fare inspectors who randomly hop on and ask to see proof of payment. Keep paying, at some point you'll avoid a ticket by doing so!
anneofgraygardens@reddit
how do they prove it? Do the inspectors have readers that can tell if your clipper card has been used recently or something?
symbolicshambolic@reddit
Yes, they have hand-held readers and they scan your clipper card or if the card is on your phone, they scan your phone. Or if you paid cash, you just show them the paper transfer.
anneofgraygardens@reddit
Okay, thanks for the heads up!
TorpleFunder@reddit
Buses are free in ABQ so no farea to dodge.
BankManager69420@reddit
Very common and it’s one of the factors of high crime in transit here. My city is famous for having some of the best public transit in the country but with the legalization of drugs and less fare enforcement, ridership has decreased by crazy amounts the past couple of years.
Comfortable-Study-69@reddit
The Dallas metro (DART) doesn’t have any ticket check enforcement in place to enter most of their train stations and I’ve never had anyone ask for a ticket when I’ve ridden it, so I’d assume it’s very common.
Squirrel179@reddit
All of our public transit is fareless, so no dodging necessary
techno_playa@reddit (OP)
Not sure if you’re joking but do you mean public transport is free or it doesn’t exist?
Squirrel179@reddit
Neither. It's publicly funded, so it's fareless. You don't pay for each ride; you can use it as much as you want without payment. It's paid for through taxes.
I live in a small city, so we don't have a subway or anything, just a system of local busses.
Morlock19@reddit
jesus that sounds like heaven
Adept_Thanks_6993@reddit
I did it once. Learned my lesson, haven't done it since.
Maleficent_Scale_296@reddit
Oh, the dreaded Schwartzfahrer! I enjoyed watching them get nabbed.
syncopatedchild@reddit
Our transit is fare-free, so there's nothing to dodge. Our one commuter train has fares, and I do think at least inadvertent fare dodging is not uncommon because the conductors often fail to check tickets. I always wait to buy a ticket until they ask, because sometimes nobody checks and you end up wasting $10 when you could have ridden for free.
taniamorse85@reddit
I don't live in a major city, but my city does have about a 200K population. We have access to a regional bus system and a regional commuter train system. On the buses, it's pretty much impossible to dodge the fare. When boarding ambulatory passengers, the rear doors stay closed, and the driver watches each person pay with either cash or a pass. If there are any wheelchair passengers (such as myself) and the bus has a rear lift instead of a front ramp, the front doors are closed. Only then are the rear doors opened to deploy the lift. After I've rolled on and the driver has secured my chair, s/he takes my fare.
As for the train system, it's probably slightly easier to dodge. The conductors don't necessarily check tickets on every trip. I have seen people get caught on occasion, though.
Particular-Move-3860@reddit
It is extremely rare, because there is no public transport in my area.
kaywild11@reddit
None- no public transportation
Poi-s-en@reddit
Good luck with that. The transit isn’t crowded enough to sneak on. The driver will absolutely wait for the police if you refuse to pay.
RodeoBoss66@reddit
NYC here. It happens daily. The MTA (Metropolitan Transit Authority, which operates the trains, subways and buses here) tries to combat it, but it still happens.
twoshovels@reddit
Years bck now I needs a ride about a 20 minute ride away, I had no choice but to call a taxi. I didn’t have cash or anything on me it was all at my destination. I was honest and explained this to the man driving the taxi. He thought about & then used his radio in the car to run it by the boss, who then said he didn’t care but if he got stiffed it’s on him the driver. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve used a taxi a this was one. The driver agreed but asked me if I had any thing of value he could hold as collateral. I gave him, my empty wallet, with my ID & believe it or not my shoes!! He drove me we get there and I told him come on in! Nope he walked to the door got money paid him an got my stuff. So form what I know? NO.
ParoxysmAttack@reddit
In Baltimore City it’s much less common than people may think because of the massive police presence, which is mainly there to curb violence.
bcece@reddit
On the lightrail and rapid transit bus lines, it is pretty common because it is really an honor system for those lines. There were far less inspections post covid, and still not enough transit police. They have been increasing the inspections though in hopes that it will increase use (the lack of inspections lead to rampant drug use outside of rush hour, so people avoided them.) Regular bus lines it is harder because the back door only opens if someone was getting off, so you basically have to go past the driver most of the time.
Mmmmmmm_Bacon@reddit
I wouldn’t know; I don’t do public transport. It’s probably often tho, which is kind of why I don’t do public transport.
runninganddrinking@reddit
It’s kind of hard to do that in the United States because we don’t really have mass transit except in major select cities.
DrScarecrow@reddit
My city has a bus system but it's free- there are no fares.
WashuOtaku@reddit
Exceptionally common.
The reason is that the transit authority made it easy to fare dodge by not using gates to board trains and only spot checking for tickets when already on the train, which happens rarely. A lot of people buy just one ticket and use it if there is anyone spot checking, otherwise its a free ride every time.
PlannedSkinniness@reddit
My coworker used to tell me the light rail was free. I take the bus now and it’s not possible to dodge that fare.
BoukenGreen@reddit
I’m in Alabama, what public transport?
cohrt@reddit
Barely any public transit for dodge fares on.
TrillyMike@reddit
Pretty common in dc, they recently changed the metro entry gates to make it harder. Used to be able to just step over them lol
sammysbud@reddit
I always feel pressure to pay there by the fact that they have a person in a booth at each gate. Do they ever actually stop people who don't pay?
In LA (pre-COVID) I would just go to the handicapped gate and wave my hand on the other side so it would open. It seemed like leading up to COVID, they had more police checking tap cards at the end of the line. At that point, though, I wasn't a broke college student anymore and my workplace covered my tap card.
__-__-_-__@reddit
The person at the booth doesn’t do shit, and they wouldn’t want to risk their safety over $3. The cops who patrol the stations often do at least stop the people and check IDs (presumably to check for warrants).
moonbunnychan@reddit
I'm not sure why they even have those people, because they don't do shit when you try to talk to them for anything. I recently was turning in a wallet and the booth person seemed so pissed that I was bothering them. And when my card stopped working they also just couldn't or wouldn't do anything.
TrillyMike@reddit
I’ve never actually seen those people stop anyone, one of them actually told me to hop it once when I was having issues with my card lol
mmeeplechase@reddit
I always pay in DC, but the Metro’s actually pretty expensive compared to other cities, especially if you’re crossing state lines (even if it’s just a stop or 2 into VA or MD), and it gets pretty frustrating to see so many commuters just hopping over when you’re shelling out $5.
royalhawk345@reddit
How recently? I was there like a year ago and you could still go over. I had to do it once because something was wrong with the app. For some reason when I tried to add fare value it said it was going to take hours to reflect in my account? I was already on the train at that point and had to leave, so it's not like I could wait.
TrillyMike@reddit
Yeah definitely within the past year they’ve been adding new gates to the stations. One time I was having issues with my card and asked the station attendant and he heard the train coming and told me just jump it to not miss the train lol
StupidLemonEater@reddit
I'd say within the last year. Not all the stations got it at the same time.
StupidLemonEater@reddit
Now they just walk through the emergency gates.
therealdrewder@reddit
Back when I lived in utah. The train ran mostly on the honor system. Supposedly, they would occasionally have a ticket checker, and you'd get a fine if you didn't have one, but I never once saw one.
That being said, whatever the rate of cheating couldn't have been worth trying to stop it.
Jorgenreads@reddit
They’ve been rebuilding the gates for the BART in the San Francisco area because of fare dodging
TheJokersChild@reddit
I see it fairly regularly. They did put taller gates on the fare machines, which they report has helped, but ultimately the fare machines themselves need to be taller so people can’t be fare jumpers.
RegionFar2195@reddit
In Minneapolis they don’t even check the light rail. It has been taken over by drug addicts and delinquent teens.
moonbunnychan@reddit
In DC before they started installing different fare gates recently, you would have thought vaulting over them was an Olympic sport. It's not AS bad now, but still a lot of people will get right up on your ass to try and follow you through the gate before it closes. I am often the only person paying on the bus.
NatalieLudgate@reddit
Never seen it happen here, but half of the bus drivers will let you on anyway if you ask. No metro here, only bus here is Amtrak and good luck sneaking on lol.
Suspicious-Froyo2181@reddit
A more relevant question in my suburb of Atlanta would leave out the "fare dodging in". The answer would be not very.
Unusual_Sundae8483@reddit
In my city, all we have is buses and the fair is free. So.
ColumbiaWahoo@reddit
Current location? Nonexistent since we don’t have public transit. Back in Pittsburgh? Rare but still happened
Eyerisch@reddit
Very common in Atlanta, there’s always at least 1 gate broken/open and there’s a good chance no officials will be around, so it’s sorta a waste of money to not take advantage of it 🤷♂️
MiketheTzar@reddit
They just made the city buses free. They weren't profitable before and now we just expect them to run a loss.
The_Impaler_@reddit
Incredibly common, there are no gates on the light rail in Minneapolis. Something like 1/3 of people don’t pay. You can just walk on.
Bright_Ices@reddit
Somewhat common in my midsize city. Ticketing for our trains is unrelated to entry, meaning you buy your ticket and then just hold it in case someone is checking tickets, which they only do sometimes. People who board the train without a ticket will often get away with it, but if they’re caught, they get a hefty fine.
Fare dodging on buses is a lot harder, and therefore uncommon, here. But also the bus system kind of sucks.
ElfRoyal@reddit
Baltimore Maryland has a light rail system. Every once in a while an employee may board the train and ask to see your ticket. Given the inconsistency of any fare monitoring, I would guess that the majority of people are not paying the fare.
Meilingcrusader@reddit
I never see anyone in Boston do it
scarlettohara1936@reddit
My husband works for the city bus company in my state. It's part of the union contract that bus driver's are not responsible for collecting fares. People get on the bus and are supposed to pay but if they don't, the driver is supposed to do nothing. In fact, a couple of drivers have been fired for trying to enforce bus fares. It puts them and other passengers at risk.
RustBeltLab@reddit
No public transport in any decent place to live.
Tiny_Ear_61@reddit
I'm in Detroit where we build the cars. What is this public transport of which you speak?
emmakay1019@reddit
Was a bus driver in Ohio (suburban area with only buses) for five years, it was hit or miss. Unfortunately my RTA did enforce fare collection, so when we did have someone try to dodge it got awkward real quick. Near the end of my time working there, I just stopped caring. The problem was so few and far between that I decided I wasn't potentially giving my life for a $1 bus fare in the rare occasion there was a fight or argument about it.
Guy2700@reddit
In Charlotte I don’t know anyone who pays for the light rail. The only people I see do it are people who aren’t from here
warneagle@reddit
A lot more common than it would be if the rent a cops actually gave a shit about enforcing it
TipsyBaker_@reddit
We don't have enough public transport as a whole to make fare dodging much of a problem
Libertas_@reddit
I honestly have no idea. I don't ever use it and it's not a topic that comes up very often in conversation.
SavannahInChicago@reddit
Buses you have to pay to get on where the driver is and they will yell for you to come up and pay if you try to sneak by. They will not drive away without you paying. That being said, if you attempt to pay and your transit card doesn't have enough of a balance, the driver will usually just tell you to not to worry about it and have a seat. There really is not much of a reason to dodge the fare.
The L though it happens more frequently. I have seen people jump over the turnstile, but I see it maybe once or twice a year. The whole CTA is pretty affordable and our monthly pass was even dropped down from $100 to $75 in the last couple years. That is before my tax-free commuter benefits.
I have to say I love a lot of public trans in the rest of the world. London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Amsterdam, Tokyo, etc. But I really don't get why validation is so popular in some of these cities.
aardvarksauce@reddit
Non-existent, my area doesn't have public transportation
Chemical-Mix-6206@reddit
We only have buses & streetcars here. You're not getting past the driver without paying.
Dont_Wanna_Not_Gonna@reddit
What is this “public transport” you are referring to?
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
I hate it. It undermines society and mass transit.
Transit is free here, so no issue
Loud_Insect_7119@reddit
The city I ride public transit in most frequently has zero problem with it, because public transit is free.
Boardgame-Hoarder@reddit
It’s non existent here because there is no public transport in my town.
mklinger23@reddit
More people jump the tune style than pay.
Mueryk@reddit
Public Transport…….whats that?
dystopiadattopia@reddit
Usually it's kids jumping the turnstile, but I don't see it that often. We don't work on the honor system here like they do in Europe. You can't get entry to your bus, train, etc., unless you pay first.
After_Meat@reddit
My area simply does not have public transport :(
Relevant_Airline7076@reddit
Our bus system is fare-free and has been for almost five years now. Before that, I think people only skipped the fare on the rapid transit line bc the drivers didn’t actually check.
fordking1337@reddit
Try to avoid? Sneak?
Paying is basically optional in my city. That’s probably why transit is so underfunded.
docfarnsworth@reddit
In Chicago I've only seen it once on the el (our subway). On the metra, which is the train that goes to the suburbs they have people that check that you paid
happyburger25@reddit
The light rail system rarely ever checks fares. Not sure about the busses or the 1 subway line, though.
Cross_eyed_loki@reddit
What public transport?
houndsoflu@reddit
Depends. Chicago is pretty touch, but San Francisco is phenomenally easy to fair jump. Portland has no turnstiles and I have only run into one fair checker since 1986.
Individualchaotin@reddit
Very common in the San Francisco Bay Area.
We have busses, light rail, street cars, cable cars, subways, ferries, trains, ...
atlasisgold@reddit
We have a similar system to Berlin in Denver. They check on the airport train but never on the other lines. I’m guessing the guys smoking meth and shooting up fentanyl in the train aren’t paying
SurpriseEcstatic1761@reddit
It is very common on the busses in Seattle. I have seen more homeless looking men get free rides by being polite than I ever imagined possible.
Bluemonogi@reddit
There isn’t public transport in my immediate area. I never noticed it in the city when I rode a bus.
Odd-Help-4293@reddit
My city got rid of the bus fare during covid and never brought it back. So there's no fare and thus no fare dodging. For the commuter rail, I haven't taken it in many years, but my recollection was that someone went around scanning tickets after people got on. So probably not much fare dodging there either, but I'm not sure about that.
RioTheLeoo@reddit
Incredibly common, which I don’t mind necessarily, but bums me out because we don’t get accurate ridership numbers which means less funding for the metro
Lanpenn_@reddit
Public transport is uncommon and precarious in most U.S. cities.
Acrobatic_Ear6773@reddit
I live near a new train station and they didn't put up turnstiles, fare gates or anything. You're supposed to get a little ticket, but no one collects or reviews them, and in a few stops you get to a train station that does have a fare gate so it's impossible to know who did it did not pay.
It was very, very poorly designed.
ReebX1@reddit
Public transport? Not even sure what that is. /s
Seriously though, if you ever visit Kansas, you will need a car. Anything worth seeing is majorly spread out, and there's not really what most people would call public transport. There's cabs and Ubers for getting around town, but they are way too expensive to take you from one town to another. Very few passenger rail lines, buses have almost gone extinct.
musical_dragon_cat@reddit
Bus fare has been free in Albuquerque for a few years now. Before that, bus drivers were pretty strict about paying, though some were kind enough to let you ride for free if you were clearly struggling.
BakedBrie26@reddit
Often in NYC. I'm temporarily disabled at the moment so I enter through these big handicap doors instead of the turnstiles. Every time at least 3-4 people enter along with me lol
Confetticandi@reddit
Pretty common here in San Francisco. They just installed different gates in the subway stations to try to crack down on it and I’ve noticed more fare enforcement officers doing random checks of buses and the metro.
It’s an election year though, so a bunch of performative “ housekeeping” is happening that may or may not continue once the election is over.
Evil-Cows@reddit
There’s pretty limited public transportation here but it’s been free since Covid so there’s no need to dodge anything.
daddyfatknuckles@reddit
not very common in chicago from what i’ve seen. the only “fare-dodging” i’ve personally seen was some dick who bullied a bus driver into letting him on
CosmicCultist23@reddit
Pretty uncommon as we have one bus system that's largely funded by casinos and it's free to use lol
timothythefirst@reddit
There is no public transport in my area.
I guess there’s a bus but I’m pretty sure they just won’t let you on without paying.
No-Engine8805@reddit
Unfortunately where I live there’s not much public transportation.
I used to take the busses and I feel like there were more times people were allowed to ride for free when they only took cash. I’m sure now that they have an app it’s harder for people to get away with not paying.
The train I’ve never taken it so I’m not sure how it works or how easy it would be to go without paying.
NW_Forester@reddit
0% locally, our bus system is free and buses are our only public transit.
polelover44@reddit
lmao what public transport
Current_Poster@reddit
(NYC) very common. I've come up to a turnstile and almost been hit by the feet of someone vaulting over it. More than once!
Curmudgy@reddit
If you’re charged per tap or swipe on the card, then it’s not a problem.
But if it’s something like a weekly or monthly pass, then it’s fare stealing, because those are sold per person. Imagine if you got a museum membership and just stood at the gate letting 100 people enter on your $60/year membership. It’s the same thing. (Which is why I now see places checking ID in addition to membership cards.).
Or suppose your senior grandmother let you borrow her senior citizen fare card, for which she paid a reduced rate. Would that be right?
Current_Poster@reddit
Even there,
1) the general reason for selling me a pass is that you're going to make a profit. I may have "unlimited" swipes, but I'm still using normal amounts more or less. And in general the choice for reduced passes is between "not at all" and "at a reduced price".
2) If you're willing to go ad absurdam and have it be 100 people I could just leave it here, but if you get to be silly why shouldn't I? People who let people merge into their lane are tactile approving of trespassing and lax border security! They'd let the Mongol Hordes in!
Curmudgy@reddit
That's not true. We're taking about public transit, which is not a for-profit business. It's about managing usage and a fair assignment of costs. It's not fair for some people to get a free ride without qualifying for it.
So reduce the number to something that's not absurd. 10? 5? 2? Is there a point greater than 1 where you think it's still unfair but not absurd? Or at what point does it become unfair?
And don't ignore my senior citizen discount question. Does it teach nothing?
Rolthox@reddit
Public transport would be nice 🫠
Sundae_2004@reddit
Washington DC recently reduced the type of crime that fare evasion was and now, no surprise there’s more evasion on both bus and subway. The subway is installing higher gates and longer dividers but the athleticism of the evaders continues to evolve. Too, the gate approach doesn’t work for the busses.
kingrazor001@reddit
Happens a fair bit on the MAX light rail in the Portland Metro. I can recall once or twice hopping on when I had no money, hoping not to get caught. I got lucky. Occasionally a group of fair inspectors will come on and start checking.
WildlifePolicyChick@reddit
In my experience, rare.
I lived in NYC for about two years, Seattle for 15, and in DC for over a decade. I've seen ONE person jump a turnstile gate. And EVERYONE gave him the stink-eye.
_pamelab@reddit
Extremely common. They only started putting gates in this year. Only took 30 years.
DemanoRock@reddit
Around here generally only lower income use public transportation. I have used it in major metros but cant imagine here in SC. I own a car.
jephph_@reddit
Common
Especially the back door of the bus. I constantly see that one
FrozenFrac@reddit
Happens every fucking day in Washington DC. If I was 10 years younger, I'd join right in. Absolute insanity how kids just casually get free rides.
bhoose19@reddit
I did it once, in NJ USA. I was riding my bicycle on a sunday and I took a bridge over a large creek. While on the other side, the tide came in and flooded the bridge, so they closed it. I eventually made my way over to the train station and went to buy a ticket, but the train came before I could buy one. I jumped on since the next one probably wasn’t coming for at least 30 minutes.
Eric848448@reddit
In Seattle, very common. Because they don’t actually do anything to stop you.
nemo_sum@reddit
I saw more in a day on the DC Metro than I see in a year on the CTA.
Aggressive-Emu5358@reddit
We don’t have public transpiration in my area except for a very few bus routes nobody that are so subsidized they may as well be free
BioDriver@reddit
What’s “public transport?”
catymogo@reddit
People walk the cars on the train but it's not super common. I live on an NJTransit line and the most I'll do is wait to activate my ticket in case the conductors don't come around, which occasionally works. There's a healthy public transportation situation by me and fare evasion isn't a major problem.
dpceee@reddit
The WRTA is currently fare free, so it's either 100% or 0% depending on how you see it.
Rancor_Keeper@reddit
It’s a big problem in NYC. People just don’t care anymore. They even do it right in front of NYPD, but they don’t give two shits.
MihalysRevenge@reddit
Public transportation in my city (Albuquerque) is free so its impossible
PsylentKnight@reddit
It's very easy to do in Austin if you wanna. The drivers don't really give a shit about the fares, staying on schedule (or trying to) is their priority. I've never seen any officers checking people's tickets on the buses
Lucky-Science-2028@reddit
In LA half the ppl dont pay lol
cdb03b@reddit
There is no public transport in my town.
RipHunter2166@reddit
I moved out of NYC last summer, but it was so freaking common ALL THE TIME. There’s no enforcement anymore, people will jump the turnstiles right in front of the MTA workers and sometimes even in front of the cops.
Techaissance@reddit
Public transport in my area? WHAT public transport in my area?
ImNotAtAllCreative81@reddit
I ride the MBTA daily for work, and it's a pretty common occurrence for the first Blue Line train of the day for commuters to dodge fares by piggy-backing behind paying commuters .
03zx3@reddit
What public transport?
pinniped1@reddit
My experiences in Chicago, DC, and Boston are that people pay. Everybody has the cards that go with each system and there's a tap-in / tap-out process at the stations.
New York is the one I hear a lot of fare dodging about but I don't know how real it is.
Cities with light rail lines accessible from the street seem to vary on whether they enforce tickets or even have fares at all. I know part of the Phoenix system, it's on your honor to tap in the app and pay 2 bucks or something. But another part of the system is totally free. (Purple trains, green trains...one of them is free.)
Judgy-Introvert@reddit
I think it largely depends on where you live and how your public transit is set up, as well as what you offer. We have busses where I live, but our transit authority doesn’t make it easy to do that. Although they do offer free days and reduced or no fares for kids or the elderly. We don’t have subways, trolleys or trams.
WrongJohnSilver@reddit
There's NJTransit rail and bus, but neither uses automatic turnstiles. So I'm sure there's plenty, but you've got to get past a person each time for everything.
Acrobatic_End6355@reddit
We just have busses and trams downtown so I’d be guessing that it isn’t common, but idk because I don’t use them. It’s super inconvenient to use. It would make my 35 minute commute to like 2 hours or more.
commanderquill@reddit
Seattle. Very common, often by accident. It can be very easy to miss the tap station, haha. There's no gate through which you have to pass.
SeeYouOn16@reddit
We have awful public transportation here in Arizona. I wouldn't imagine bus fares are easy to dodge since the driver collects from you as you board, but the lightrail literally runs on the honor system. I imagine there is a lot of fare dodging.
DGlen@reddit
What public transport?
Agreeable-Dot-9598@reddit
Scotland here, I fully expect the bus driver would get out of his seat and kick them off while shouting " get tae f*** ya fare dodging bam". I'd be otherwise disappointed!
FivebyFive@reddit
Constant. Just so so bad.
They post guards outside SOME of the emergency/wheelchair entrances. But most of the time even when someone is there, they just look the other way when people walk through the gate without paying.
Some day it feels like I'm the only that doesn't see that as stealing.
MortimerDongle@reddit
It's difficult to dodge on SEPTA regional rail because conductors check every person's ticket on the train itself. I'm sure it's possible but probably pretty rare.
On the subway, common enough that they're investing in new anti-evasion gates.
Jcgw22@reddit
Since there is only 4 busses all day only on weekdays. I'm sure is all most non existent.
TheOwlMarble@reddit
What public transport?
dwfmba@reddit
Common but wonderfully paired with a garbage fare system with many flaws (#SeptaKey) that Septa just as an assumptive rate for regional rail ($6.50).
qu33nof5pad35@reddit
Very common.
sean8877@reddit
I've been told it's common in some big cities like San Francisco. Someone told me most people don't pay the bus fare in SF. I can't confirm it though because I haven't been there in a while.
EpicAura99@reddit
I’ve seen it once or twice on the metro
Bus drivers don’t seem to really give a shit, so it’s hard to call that “dodging”
SheenPSU@reddit
Never happens here
Granted, you need to have public transit in order to dodge it but nonetheless
rr90013@reddit
Yep, I see people jumping the turnstiles in nyc all the time. Somehow it greatly increased since the pandemic. Though it’s gone down a bit since there’s more police presence paying attention.
panda_pandora@reddit
On the trains there are a few. Because the driver isn't checking fares. They do random stings where transit cops board and check everyone's fare and catch a few every now and then. On the busses the driver won't let you on without a ticket.
Soundwave-1976@reddit
Don't really have any public transit where in my town, way too small. In the city the busses are free but not many people use them. That's all the transit we have.
Uhhyt231@reddit
Very common in DC but I get it. The train is more expensive with less service
dangleicious13@reddit
What is this "public transportation" that you speak of?
HailState17@reddit
We don’t have public transit out where I live.
shibby3388@reddit
In D.C. it’s common on metro buses post pandemic but they’ve started cracking down in metro train stations with new fare gates and more police.
505backup_1@reddit
The only public transportation we got is busses and they're free so pretty rare
mechanixrboring@reddit
There's virtually no public transport in my area, so I guess it's not common
Crayshack@reddit
I can't say that I've even seen any public transport in my area, let alone seen anyone boarding it. As far as I know, there are no fare dodgers because no one is riding public transport to begin with.