I am currently a CFI teaching Ground School, and I feel like I want to transition out of the aviation industry. I dont enjoy flying like I used to, and have felt this way for the better part of two years now.
Posted by BlizzardSucksMyNuts@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 66 comments
For some backstory, I am currently a CFI in Arizona. I started my flight training back in 2017 and got my Private Pilots License two years later after that in 2019 due to the flight school I was going to having all sorts of issues, as well as dealing with the consequences of disclosing medical information to the FAA that had no relevance and was in the past.
Fast track to 2020, I started my time at ATP where I was criticized and bullied by members of management at the Gateway location, and almost gave up becoming a pilot then. Along with the hurdles I had to jump through to get my medical back, along with $3000 to hire someone to talk to the FAA on my behalf to word it better, I was ready to give up. Pressure from my parents nonetheless kept me going and I kept on pursuing my IR, CPL, and CFI (where I am at currently). The problem is, DPE's in the state of AZ and neighboring states are booked up for the next year or so, and trying to find one has been completely unmanageable.
Not a single company out here hires CFI's without the CFII, and trying to find an examiner for this test is miserable. I have emailed every single DPE in AZ as well as UT and they all responded saying they were completely booked for the forseeable future.
Along with my lack of passion for Aviation these past two years, the lack of hope that I can even build hours for the next year since no DPE's can do my test, as well as the fact that the industry has taken all my money, I wanted to just cut my losses and pursue something new. I currently teach Ground School as a way of making money, but wanted to transition to something within Cybersecurity.
My question is, is this feeling going to go away? I absolutely loved flying when I first started it, but its gotten to the point where I dont even enjoy teaching about aviation anymore.
Thank you
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
tldr. Go do something else.
Brolociraptor@reddit
Why are you being an asshole about this? OP has lost his passion for flying because of the bureaucratic nightmare that aviation has become. He's fully aware of the job.
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
You must be new here.
inline_five@reddit
Scheduling checking rides a year out is definitely new. I think I waited like a week for mine.
Dalminster@reddit
That's a Texas-sized "always_has_been.gif" moment if there ever was one!
Dramatic_Ranger_7434@reddit
I’ve worked since I was 15 I’m well aware of what work is. My point is that I’m not building hours and there’s no way to start building hours until the next checkride for the CFII is complete
ComprehensiveEar7218@reddit
Sounds to me like you're not very passionate about aviation and are giving up when you encounter a slight hiccup. That tells me you're not cut out for this career, because that's the only guarantee...hiccups.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
I can tell you whether or not that feeling will go away, only you can answer that. Being a CFI sucks ass though.
But, it's ok to transition out of aviation if that's what you feel like is best. I know a guy who felt like flying wasn't for him since halfway through training. He kept it up though, eventually got to an airline, but went against the slippery slope and quit. He's happy now doing something else.
Ok_Independent_7499@reddit
“Being a CFI sucks ass though.”
lol people always shit on being a CFI but I’m personally stoked to become one. I’m also a pre-solo pilot.
PM_ME_YOUR_PITOTTUBE@reddit
I was a CFI for 3 and a half years. I loved it.
BringPopcorn@reddit
I think I did it two years... but I loved it too. I'd be doing it now if it paid as well as a legacy.
No_Diver_2133@reddit
Why did you comment, then verify that you have no clue what you’re talking about? Bizzare.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
I should rephrase, I love instructing, but instructing for a tiny paycheck sucks ass.
s2soviet@reddit
You went through pô to Zé a
RaiseTheDed@reddit
If that's a reference I'm not getting it lol
s2soviet@reddit
I started typing this, then the bus came, it was a pocket dial lol.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Lmao!
LongHaul_69@reddit
Have you thought about joining the Air Force Reserve in cyber? Probably might be a nice breath of fresh air. No big commitment and a create career builder
cazzipropri@reddit
I learned something recently. I just became a CFI (last week) after flying 700+h for fun.
(I'll never instruct full time because I have a different career that is developed).
Work gave me a break this summer, so I pulled the trigger and enrolled in a CFI academy in Aug-Sep.
It's an intensive course, with classroom most of the day each day, and when you have breaks you'd fly the plane or the sims. I'd fall asleep most night at 11 or midnight working on lesson plans and presentations.
I learned something about myself. I thought I had an unlimited love for aviation, and that I could take unlimited amount of it for an unlimited amount of time. I learned it's not true. I learned there's a point in rhythms and schedules at which it's not fun. Maybe this answers your feeling "will this go away". I'm sure that the feeling of "not enjoying it" is associated with rhythms and pressures.
jayreggy@reddit
Interesting, I had the opposite experience. I quit an engineering job to work as a CFI with about 700 hours as a private pilot and I've been loving every moment of it. I love watching my students succeed, I love being able to put in the time to really master the craft of flying. I've learned so much and it feels good to be so on top of my flying
wt1j@reddit
Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
CloudHunter210@reddit
Electronic engineer turned student pilot. Using my current career to fund flight training. Best decision I’ve ever made. Engineering is great for some but not for me.
cazzipropri@reddit
Maybe that's because you are instructing and you see yourself doing something productive. I'm still in the middle of the tunnel, with my CFI-I checkride coming up soon.
jayreggy@reddit
Well here’s hoping the job itself treats you well once you get there
xywh@reddit
I’ve spent most of my career in cybersecurity. Currently a CISO for a very large company.
CFI on the side for fun. I love flying. About 2000 hours of dual given. 3000 hours total. I’ve often been asked why I don’t go to airlines - answer, I like my real job, and airlines would be a pay cut.
There are days, though, that my job sucks and I’ve thought about how great it would be to have the time off in airlines, or leave work when you walk out the plane (I take work home with me every night).
Grass is always greener: cybersecurity and flying are two great careers.
If you don’t love flying - leave. But you probably won’t love cybersecurity every day either.
TheAceOfSpades115@reddit
I’m in cybersecurity and burned out in that field. Every day is staring at a screen. Remember that when you’re looking out at beautiful mountains/weather systems.
MetalXMachine@reddit
I dont know how realistic it is but you can contact the FSDO and request an FAA examiner to do your check ride. I had one of them reach out to me recently trying to find a student to do a checkride for. Doesn't seem like they do it often but he told me to reach out if any students ever couldn't get on the schedule with a normal DPE. Worth a shot if you haven't yet.
Dalminster@reddit
I don't know, something about a guy who calls himself "Blizzard Sucks My Nuts" doesn't scream someone who takes things seriously. Maybe "something within cybersecurity" would better suit you.
Just don't apply to Blizzard, I guess.
Wonderful-Cricket106@reddit
I pity the people who have to fly with you.
Dalminster@reddit
I'd rather you not think about me at all, since I don't think about you at all. Figured it's the least you could do.
Here, let me help you.
grant0208@reddit
Hey man, I don’t mean to derail the discussion, but I also disclosed past and irrelevant information due to a mistake in paperwork to do with a relevant condition - and have been denied a medical as a result. Is there any chance I could bug you to give me some kind of tips on how to approach a next step? Seems like everyone says the lawyer route is best, but I don’t even understand what that means when they say that. Is that someone talking to the FAA directly on my behalf? Or is it someone who essentially writes letters for me?
If anyone has any useful tips, lmk. I’ve deemed myself “a failed pilot” and if that’s just what I am, so be it.
astropilot71@reddit
Depending on your total time, somewhere like Ameriflight might be a place for you. I know many people who didn’t like to flight instruct, however when the job changed to completing a mission, like the packages from A to B. It makes a big difference in the job.
Dramatic_Ranger_7434@reddit
Totally! That’s the plan. I want to fly for JSX and they have FO positions open at 800 so that’s the current game plan. I also looked ameriflight and PSA
Wooden_Patience_6367@reddit
Are you open to doing the check ride in other states? There are several DPEs across Texas and Arkansas/Louisiana with one month wait times. I’ve seen some across Facebook post about their availability in October.
Lazypilot306@reddit
Good students, that you can teach on your own terms are awesome. Everyone else and being pushed to fly sucks ass. The first two years of the airlines suck too but you are being paid a bit better. Tread carefully.
No_Lettuce8005@reddit
Find a DPE somewhere else and book a flight if you have to, waiting that long is pointless
chino_pzz@reddit
Fuck ATP
ContrailQueen@reddit
I stopped instructing full time in 2004 when I got my first airline job. I had been instructing full time for four years. Some days were long, but I never felt the level of burnout that I see expressed online these days. I’m so curious as to how the job has changed in that time. Back then we were all just happy to be doing any flying job. I felt crazy lucky to have that job and I loved it every day. Was I tired sometimes? Oh my gosh yes. I remember one day in the summer that I flew with five students and all five were pre-solo. I did ten landings each with them. Fifty landings in a single day! Haha!
My goal was always to fly for an airline, and I love my job. But I look forward to the day I can go back to instructing for fun.
MeatServo1@reddit
You’ve emailed Jacob Hansen and jim pitman and both told you no? And if they said they were busy, why not just book their next available, keep flying, and time your training to align with your check ride date? Regardless, there are plenty of places that hire people without CFII, but you have to be willing to move there.
I said the same thing to someone else also bellyaching on here the other day. Suck it up or don’t. Every job sucks, but some suck a lot more than others. You think sitting in an office explaining to bob for the ninth time how phishing works and not to open attachments in emails will be fulfilling, lucrative, or enjoyable? You think monitoring web traffic at the local university and seeing teenagers’ web histories will enrich your life? You think having to grind self-employed because there’s no work for entry-level cybersecurity with no experience will be easier than what you do now? Life sucks, and work sucks more.
Brolociraptor@reddit
Jesus Christ, the insensitivity in this sub is unfortunately very telling. Some of you should not be offering guidance to anyone, sad that aviation is so desperate for pilots that we have CFIs teaching with 0 emotional intelligence.
MeatServo1@reddit
Nothing about this is easy. Pretty much no one walks into any aviation job, not CFI, 135, or 121. Everyone I know, myself included, has struggled at some point, whether it’s training or the job hunt or both. Insensitivity does not equal pragmatism, and the truth often hurts. Some people don’t have the tools to succeed in this industry, but if someone leaves aviation because some weirdos on the internet were being meanies, good riddance. I don’t want to fly with someone who’s got a maxed out resignation buff.
Brolociraptor@reddit
Im not surprised by your response, but the current state of the industry is being caused by your viewpoint. We are losing viable candidates all the time because we are rushing people through the process to be instructors, and they don't know how to educate or have any people skills.
Dalminster@reddit
Alternative perspective:
Non-viable candidates are being weeded out by the process, as intended.
Dramatic_Ranger_7434@reddit
They both said they are not scheduling at the moment because their schedule is way too backed up
MeatServo1@reddit
Then find an accelerated program and knock out the rating. Or find a flight school that will hire you without CFII on the contingency you get it within X months. Or don’t. There’s no easy answers. Everyone has worked through some gauntlet to get to the end of the rainbow, no matter a silver spoon, a trust fund, or daddy’s money. We’ve all had to grind one way or another.
WisePlant8245@reddit
Honestly, this is all completely fair but I wouldn't give up yet. I've had a lot of the same experiences, difficulty finding DPE's, being told I should give up on becoming an instructor, apocalyptically expensive medical deferral and wanting to quit. Every pilot and instructor that I know has gotten some form of what you're experiencing between commercial and atp mins.
You've come this far and invested a lot of money and you're so close. I'd keep in mind CFII is very easy, very short and the reward is significant. I'd look into some accelerated programs where you get a checkride date before training or, though they are more expensive, many Cirrus centers (where I currently work) will handle reserving checkrides since their typical clients can't be bothered to.
In terms of feeling stuck, this will be the case with any career, education or skill but it is completely fine. It can still be a worthwhile career even if it isn't your passion anymore. My passion used to be flying now my purpose in life is to eat sushi and going on vacation. I view my cfi job the same as I did any other job that I have had. I do it, collect my paycheck and go do something I actually love.
My general advice is to advance your career in whatever direction and pace you feel comfortable with and most importantly, don't listen to those who try and shame you out of aviation on the basis that you are not passionate enough or considered other careers when you experienced difficulties that by the way, are legitimately challenging.
SpaceMarine33@reddit
Join the airforce. Life is a grind and what you make it.
Also plenty of places will hire without a CFII. Or do free lance work. I got my cfi during covid and failed a few times and fucked my career path up. You just gotta cope and keep moving on. Like others have said it’s a job. 🤷🏻♂️ would you rather work doing this or selling insurance or working at Costco? lol
OptFire@reddit
Couldn’t imagine not loving aviation and then going through the most grueling flight training program for Officer pay and work for 10 years. Terrible idea.
SpaceMarine33@reddit
You don’t work as an officer lol especially if you’re flying. Sure it’s “work” but you’re not singing fighting holes, weeks long patrols doing grunt things.
He wants a job.. then that’s a job that’ll lead to retirement. If I was younger I would totally do it but I squandered 10 years of my life being a grunt in the marines. lol nothing good comes easy u let’s you’re born into money.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Sounds like someone who wasn't on a squadron...
It sure is work, but it's different.
You will spend hours studying every week on your own time, you'll have administrative things you still need to work on for your subordinates and then all the side jobs they'll give you.
SpaceMarine33@reddit
I would have rather done that than walk aimlessly in Afghanistan for months, living in fobs. Ten years in the marines as a grunt. Lol
No_Diver_2133@reddit
How many failures? What for?
AsparagusForsaken760@reddit
Failing a a few times “fucked your career path?”
No_Diver_2133@reddit
My advice is to stop bitching. Everyone is in the same boat. Either suck it up or move on.
jayreggy@reddit
I think your burnout is coming from a place of feeling like the finish line has been moved away from you. I'm not saying aviation is definitely the career for you, but you should find an accelerated course and finish up that CFII rating, and get yourself a job as a flying CFI. You've come so far, and it can be super demoralizing when there's more steps after what you thought was the last one, but you owe it to yourself to finish what you started and experience an actual flying job. I know I've been really enjoying mine once I actually started working with students
illimitable1@reddit
I am not an expert and this is not advice.
We live in a big country. Arizona and Utah are only two out of 50 states plus territories. Certainly out of the other 96 percent of the United States, you can find somebody to take you out on a check ride, right?!
No_Character_8472@reddit
Think about the end goal. If you want to be an airline pilot, then you just have to endure a couple years of time building as a CFI until you get there! It sucks but it’s worth it for a very fulfilling career that pays super well
F1shermanIvan@reddit
Well yeah, your job sucks. That’s the way it goes with any crappy job.
It’ll get better if the job gets better.
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Great, one less person to compete with for seniority.
Next!
TheGuAi-Giy007@reddit
Yet another aviation member who was sucked dry of any shred of passion by ATP management… hate to see it, but if isn’t your passion, then it isn’t your passion. Advice - don’t let those two assholes ruin it all, just let it all be an experience.
flyinnotdyin@reddit
Think about maybe being just burnt out
OrionX3@reddit
Go somewhere else. I hated my time at a 141, I went to a small 61 school where the love of aviation was at the forefront and my joy was restored and probably doubled. And it led to a great job after due to connections.
RW-One@reddit
Take a break if you can, I did for about 10 years...
bryan2384@reddit
Transition out and fly for fun.
slay1224@reddit
You got to do some soul searching, but realize you’re at the tail end of your primary training. You’re burnt out, everyone gets burnt out. You’ve been eating and sleeping aviation for 4+ years. No one likes airplanes enough to not get burnt out after something like that. Also, what are you going to do after you go to school for cybersecurity and get burnt out in that? Are you just going to quit and do something else that piques your interest at the time?
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
For some backstory, I am currently a CFI in Arizona. I started my flight training back in 2017 and got my Private Pilots License two years later after that in 2019 due to the flight school I was going to having all sorts of issues, as well as dealing with the consequences of disclosing medical information to the FAA that had no relevance and was in the past.
Fast track to 2020, I started my time at ATP where I was criticized and bullied by members of management at the Gateway location, and almost gave up becoming a pilot then. Along with the hurdles I had to jump through to get my medical back, along with $3000 to hire someone to talk to the FAA on my behalf to word it better, I was ready to give up. Pressure from my parents nonetheless kept me going and I kept on pursuing my IR, CPL, and CFI (where I am at currently). The problem is, DPE's in the state of AZ and neighboring states are booked up for the next year or so, and trying to find one has been completely unmanageable.
Not a single company out here hires CFI's without the CFII, and trying to find an examiner for this test is miserable. I have emailed every single DPE in AZ as well as UT and they all responded saying they were completely booked for the forseeable future.
Along with my lack of passion for Aviation these past two years, the lack of hope that I can even build hours for the next year since no DPE's can do my test, as well as the fact that the industry has taken all my money, I wanted to just cut my losses and pursue something new. I currently teach Ground School as a way of making money, but wanted to transition to something within Cybersecurity.
My question is, is this feeling going to go away? I absolutely loved flying when I first started it, but its gotten to the point where I dont even enjoy teaching about aviation anymore.
Thank you
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