Am I at fault here in this accident?
Posted by FaiaKingu@reddit | driving | View on Reddit | 34 comments
So I'm driving down a two way street. One lane on each side and a double lined street. The driver in front of me puts on his hazard lights and slows down approx. 7-10 mph. Due to this I decided that the best course of action would be to overtake him since his only options after turning on the hazard lights SHOULD be to either drive slow or come to a stop on the shoulder of the road. I turn on my left turning signal, check behind and in front of me and in the middle of passing, the other driver makes a left turn and hits my rear passenger side door.
Am I at fault here?
Fantastic-Display106@reddit
The best defensive course of action on that road would have been to be patient and wait until you could determine what they were doing. You didn't know why they were slowing. They turned on their hazards to alert those behind they were slowing down to not normal speeds. There could have been a road hazard, there could have been a person in the road. They may have been looking for a house number and driveway to turn into because they weren't exactly sure where they needed to turn.
I'd say you're at fault for being impatient and making assumptions, which contributed to the collision. They turned into you which could be deemed their fault, but your pass was questionable and possibly not legal.
b15cowboy@reddit
there is no reason to turn on your hazards unless if you got pulled over or in an emergency
MamaLiza14@reddit
When people brake in front of me and I'm IN traffic on a highway I'll brake and hazard if it's more than a normal decrease in speed...
Fantastic-Display106@reddit
I can think of a lot of reasons to turn on your hazard lights. It's best to turn them off when you need to signal to make a turn though.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
I should clarify that I also slowed down for about 3-5 seconds before I decided to overtake him. And the roads were 100% clear as I was able to see past the car. There was nothing that I could see.
As for the pass being questionable and possible illegal, what would the other option be then? Do you just stop your car and wait for as long as possible until they're ready to move?
Fantastic-Display106@reddit
From a response to another poster. This would be even more reason to be extra cautious.
In the moment, if it's dark, the roads may have been clear of other cars, but you can't say there weren't other hazards in the road that couldn't be seen that were blocked by the car with their hazards on. i'm making assumptions after the fact. I'm assuming they wanted to turn left into a driveway?
This situation sucks. But patience goes a long way. Unless the other driver was stopped fully, I would say it was unsafe to pass until you could determine what their intentions were.
The other driver, assuming there were turning left somewhere, should have just put their left turn signal on.
InfamousFlan5963@reddit
Also while I think the hazards weren't as good of an idea as just a left turn signal would be, I've known people to live on "faster" roads and trying to slow to turn can definitely be worrying with people not slowing behind you, so I can totally see someone using their hazards to basically try to get the car behind them to be more alert, then possibly turning on turn signal after that (but OP didn't give enough time to see 2nd signal). I used to turn my signal on WAY early to hopefully help people see, but then you worry they might disregard it as accidentally on.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
It wasn't a driveway. There were no houses in the area I was in. But I can say for certain that there wasn't anything in front since I normally watch closely in front of the car in front of me.
Fantastic-Display106@reddit
Did you not speak to the person after having the collision? Surely there was a reason why they turned to the left? This whole situation seems odd. You seem a bit too confident in your abilities to see at night in front of vehicles in front of you.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
It was a side street because they weren't sure where they were going. So I'm not going to say turning left was unprecedented. But due to forestry it wasn't easily seen especially in the darkness. They turned left because they didn't know where they were going/made a wrong turn
ZealousidealCan4714@reddit
Yes.
themassivefail@reddit
Simply, yes. Exactly that. You stated he was still moving and not stopped, you're in a no passing zone, the thing to do would've been to match their speed, maybe turning on your own hazards for traffic behind you, and wait until they're out of the way or fully stopped, at which point they become an obstacle and you can go around them at that point.
The way you described it, you'd be found 100% at fault in any legal investigation.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
If that's the case then now I know. From my understanding, hazard lights are to be used for a couple of reason's
1. If the car is has an issue and cannot be driven normally.
2. If you are planning to stop on the shoulder of a road
3. If the car is at a complete stop and is obstructing the road
1 is assuming that the laws permit you to drive with your hazard lights on.
In all cases, overtaking would be allowed due to the car being an obstruction. (I think/thought of course)
b15cowboy@reddit
if they blame you take it to court. Your 100% right on hazards as to when they should be used.
themassivefail@reddit
Oh for sure, they were definitely in the wrong for that, could even get a ticket for it, but if they were still moving then unfortunately it's on you for overtaking a moving vehicle over a double yellow. If their car was stopped fully, then yes you'd be right, that's a full obstruction, like a fallen tree on the road or something.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
Yeah that makes sense. I definitely only saw the left turn after the fact too since it wasn't a really big road since it was pretty dark out. So I already knew that was the biggest issue from the start.
Single_Molasses_8434@reddit
Post is unnecessarily ambiguous. I’m going to say you were at fault. Slowed down 7-10 mph from what initial speed? I’m guessing it’s not 15 mph to 5mph.
You illegally passed a guy who was going slower than you wanted to go and hit them. You’re at fault.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
I'm also not going to pretend that I am a 'safe' driver. I get to from place A to B very confidently. If I drove normally I probably would've been gone already and none of this would've occurred but I was trying my hardest not to get into any trouble since I was done a favor by someone who was renting me the car. I can assure you I only made the decision due to my experience with hazard lights and what I had been taught that they were used for. Granted the use of hazard lights(and what to do if another driver has one on) from just a basic internet search seems so ambiguous which is why I turned to reddit for a clearer answer.
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
from speed limit at the time from 30 --> 21 (from dash). I legitimately thought he was going to park on the shoulder, since that's the only use I know from hazard lights. The only other use that I know of is to tell the driver behind you that you are going to be driving super slow and that's it's okay to pass around you from when a previous car I drove had mechanical problems. I asked merely because I was confused at to what I should have done. However, I've already gotten my answer from previous people.
do_you_like_waffles@reddit
You are always at fault for attempting to pass on the doubt yellow line. It doesn't matter if the other driver got out of his car and is doing cartwheels naked in the street, if you collide with him and you aren't in your lane then you are at fault.
Hazards indicate that the other driver was having an issue. He shouldn't have turned when he did, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. Next time come to a complete stop and give them a second. If they are blocking the road then beep and let them use their hands to signal you around if that's what they need you to do.
salsa_rodeo@reddit
I would pin blame on the bozo that kept their hazards on and lollygagged around. Hazards should imply they stay in the road or pull off to the right somewhere out of the way.
Sea-Internet7015@reddit
If there was a double yellow line which indicates "no passing" you will be assessed some fault. Probably not 100% as the driver made a left turn without ensuring it was safe to do so; the onus to check for safety is always on the person making a left turn. Clearly the person wasn't paying attention or they should have known you were there.
It there was no indication not to pass the left turner will be at fault. When you make a left turn you are required to make sure it is safe, including from cars overtaking you.
grwatplay9000@reddit
Another thing to be aware of is once hazard flashers have been engaged, they override so the turn signals don't work. So while it was ill-advised to do what you did, he had no way to indicate what he was going to do. Hazard flashers are not because "I think I might need to turn left here but I'm not sure, so let me slow down and decide what to do". Hazard flashers are for after stopping, not while moving. But yes, you should have waited a little to let him declare what he was going to do even though he was using the hazard flashers incorrectly. He gave you a warning; you should have waited until he at least stopped moving.
b15cowboy@reddit
who ever down voted comment this is cant drive
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
I honestly think that this right here is probably the most sound thing that I thought about. However, I just cannot understand making a left turn haphazardly while having your hazard lights on.
SnooDonuts6494@reddit
Yeah, you're at fault. Hazards mean "exercise extreme caution".
You should've stopped behind, and assessed the situation. You could have crawled past, if safe - but from the tone of your comment I don't think that's what you did.
b15cowboy@reddit
peolpe miss use hazards all the time and no a Havey load doesn't count use your turn signals
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
It's apparent I misjudged the use of hazard lights.
SnooDonuts6494@reddit
Hazards should be for an imminent emergency.
They're often abused, but you need to "assume the worst".
They're supposed to be for things like, for example, "my wheel has fallen off" or "I'm having a heart attack".
It's more likely to be an Uber parking up, but eh. Ass-u-me, etc.
o/
b15cowboy@reddit
he is 100% hazard don't tell you he is turning
2E26_6146@reddit
While the other driver failed to announce their intention to turn (if their turn signal is the type that doesn't work when flashers are on, they should have used a hand signal), you could have prevented the accident and thus failed as a defensive driver. If one doesn't clearly understand what's happening in a situation like this they shouldn't pass - you could have waited at least until you understood the situation and maybe turned on your own flashers, which is a proper way to indicate you're either stopped or going substantially slower than normal traffic. You also could have honked while you were waiting and again as you started to pass, this would have alerted them to your presence but much better to have waited while you're figuring things out.
I encountered a somewhat similar situation several years ago when a car I was following failed to start up from a stop sign - I waited, waited some more and finally honked (it occurred there might a reason though I couldn't see it and was reluctant to go around him). The car ahead stayed stopped because two men were on the pavement ahead of him fighting over a knife, something I couldn't see and never would have anticipated.
Don't fail to file an accident report, if that's required in your state.
kevin_r13@reddit
He was wrong for turning on hazards to turn left at a place where there is no left turn spacing.
You're wrong for trying to pass on an area that did not allow passing.
He probably didn't expect anyone to be coming up next to him since it was a single lane.
However, I don't know how to call this . Maybe 50-50?
FaiaKingu@reddit (OP)
It was pretty dark out and my lights were on (of course) so I can't understand him not at least checking if anyone was behind him. Especially since this was on the way out of Six Flags.
OutrageousRace@reddit
Where are you located? You mentioned this was a "double lined street"; does that mean there was a double yellow line dividing the opposing lanes?
It is usually illegal to cross over the double yellow line when passing someone, though some areas have exceptions for temporarily crossing over a double yellow if there is an obstruction, like a downed tree branch or something else blocking your side of the road, as long as you yield to oncoming traffic. A slowing or stopped vehicle with their hazards on could count as an obstruction.
The other car definitely didn't signal properly if they turned, but they were also indicating they were a hazard. It probably would have been best to slow down and wait to see what their intentions were. If they had come to a stop, it probably would have been safe and legal to pass, but passing while they were still moving was risky and led to there being a crash.
Insurance and where this crash happened will be the big determiners of who (and by how much) is at fault.